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| CIA-46 | gary * r112239 zc.buildout/bootstrap/ (newbootstrap.py bootstrap.py): move the new bootstrap aside to let virtualenv users that have packages linked to bootstrap in trunk stay happy. | 00:48 |
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| shen-long | is there a way for me to tell what a container can contain? | 02:19 |
| shen-long | I've set the constraint using zope.container.constraints.contains('myinterfaces',) | 02:19 |
| shen-long | and picking the object apart in pdb right now, I can't find a way to poop out the info of 'what' it can contain | 02:19 |
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| shen-long | I know that contains builds up __setitem__ | 02:20 |
| shen-long | but where's the cancontain method or something? | 02:20 |
| shen-long | yeah, ditto here | 02:28 |
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| CIA-46 | andreasjung * r112240 zope.repositorypolicy/CHANGES.txt: required by setup.py | 10:37 |
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| Charlie_X | TheJester: seen Theuni1 | 13:10 |
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| wosc | Charlie_X: Theuni is /really/ busy right now | 13:10 |
| Charlie_X | Then I guess I'm chairing today's meeting again. | 13:11 |
| Charlie_X | Thanks for the info, | 13:11 |
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| CIA-46 | adamg * r112241 keas.build/ (buildout.cfg CHANGES.txt src/keas/build/package.py): | 14:31 |
| CIA-46 | - Fix: Do NOT ``register`` with ``python setup.py`` | 14:31 |
| CIA-46 | - Fix: bump setuptools and zc.buildout versions | 14:31 |
| CIA-46 | - Fix: 0.1.7 tar.gz was broken | 14:31 |
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| CIA-46 | adamg * r112242 keas.build/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Preparing release 0.1.8 | 14:49 |
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| CIA-46 | adamg * r112243 /keas.build/tags/0.1.8: Tagging 0.1.8 | 15:08 |
| CIA-46 | adamg * r112244 keas.build/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Back to development: 0.1.9 | 15:08 |
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| ignas | hi | 15:57 |
| ignas | how do I use utf-8 in my page templates? I am using PageTemplateFile in my product, but if the template contains utf-8 characters I get encoding errors... | 16:02 |
| betabug | ignas: there is a setting you have to do in the ZMI, just a second, I'll fetch you a link | 16:02 |
| betabug | ignas: http://betabug.ch/blogs/ch-athens/96 "Zope: Using UTF-8 in the Management Interface (ZMI)" | 16:02 |
| ignas | i can see utf-8 in zmi just fine | 16:03 |
| ignas | i am talking about templates in my file system | 16:03 |
| ignas | i can't even "render" it | 16:03 |
| ignas | not just "return it" for zope to display | 16:03 |
| betabug | ah, ok | 16:04 |
| betabug | hmm, not doing that here, but IIRC I got it working some time | 16:04 |
| ignas | the call PageTemplateFile('templates/list.pt', globals()).__of__(self)() | 16:04 |
| ignas | and I have the utf-8 in ZMI things fixed in my instance | 16:05 |
| betabug | which zope version is that? | 16:05 |
| ignas | 2.11 | 16:05 |
| Charlie_X | ignas you can use a "metadata" file for that purpose | 16:05 |
| ignas | "metadata" file? | 16:06 |
| Charlie_X | Yes, at least that's possible for templates that are transient ZODB objects. But it looks like you might be using a browser view. | 16:06 |
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| Charlie_X | You should check the settings of default_publisher_encoding in etc/zope.conf | 16:07 |
| Charlie_X | This defaults to Latin-1 in <= 2.11 | 16:07 |
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| ignas | Charlie_X, it is set to utf-8 | 16:09 |
| ignas | the code I posted is a method of my Product | 16:10 |
| ignas | and I still did not find the documentation for the metadata file for a Zope2 Product | 16:10 |
| Charlie_X | Sorry, my mistake. The CMF has an FSPageTemplate Product which allows use to write PageTemplates in the file system. | 16:12 |
| ignas | nah, it's not what I am doing, I am just migrating some TTW code into a product, so trying to move one template first | 16:15 |
| ignas | but it has utf-8 characters in it | 16:15 |
| ignas | and is refusing to render | 16:15 |
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| betabug | ignas: I'll run a little test here, just a minute | 16:16 |
| Charlie_X | I understand now... | 16:16 |
| Charlie_X | It should still be possible to set an encoding. | 16:16 |
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| ignas | yes, but where and how :) | 16:17 |
| ignas | FYI i am using Products.PageTemplates.PageTemplateFile.PageTemplateFile | 16:17 |
| Charlie_X | ZopePageTemplate uses an explicit "output_encoding" | 16:18 |
| ignas | it's not about output i think, I mean - i am not event getting to the "output" phase | 16:19 |
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| betabug | ignas: works here, Zope 2.10 though | 16:19 |
| Charlie_X | I know but ZopePageTemplate uses the encoding to coerce the template to unicode. | 16:20 |
| betabug | I've added some greek text to a page template on the file system in one of our products | 16:20 |
| betabug | I access the code that returns the ZPT in question (a python product method) | 16:20 |
| Charlie_X | The underlying implementation of PageTemplateFile should identify the encoding from the BOM at the start of the file. | 16:21 |
| betabug | that instances default-zpublisher-encoding in zope.conf is not set to anything | 16:21 |
| Charlie_X | betabug: in which case it will default to latin-15 on Zope 2.10. | 16:22 |
| * Charlie_X remembers he has started to move the Psycopy forms to PageTemplates... | 16:22 | |
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| ignas | Charlie_X, all encodings are set to utf-8 in my config file... | 16:23 |
| Charlie_X | I'm just trying with my own local product. | 16:24 |
| betabug | ignas: what editor do you edit the zpt on the file system with? are you sure it's set to utf-8? | 16:25 |
| ignas | betabug, emacs, yes, i am sure | 16:25 |
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| Charlie_X | I get the same error here. | 16:25 |
| ignas | betabug, looked at the error message, the character it fails on is the first utf-8 "byte" of the character | 16:25 |
| ignas | betabug, can you paste your method that works somewhere? | 16:25 |
| betabug | and you set UTF-8 as the http encoding header in your ZPT or your python method that returns the ZPT? | 16:26 |
| ignas | yes | 16:26 |
| Charlie_X | It's zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate.pt_render that bards | 16:26 |
| ignas | lisppaste6, url | 16:26 |
| betabug | hmmm, the particular method I was using is rather long and complicated :-) | 16:26 |
| lisppaste6 | To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/zope and enter your paste. | 16:26 |
| lisppaste6 | ignas pasted "The code and the traceback" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99080 | 16:27 |
| Charlie_X | yep, that's the same error I get. | 16:28 |
| Charlie_X | I think the simple answer is that you cannot use non-ASCII for such templates. Just use the HTML entities. | 16:32 |
| betabug | I doubt that | 16:32 |
| Charlie_X | You can see it in the class hierarchy | 16:32 |
| betabug | if that had broken from 2.10 to 2.11, we'd have heard more complaints | 16:32 |
| Charlie_X | Whereas ZopePageTemplate uses an explicit encoding to ensure the template is unicode, PageTemplateFile passes everything straight to zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate. | 16:33 |
| Charlie_X | I get the same error on Zope 2.12 | 16:33 |
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| lisppaste6 | Charlie_X annotated #99080 "Workaround" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99080#1 | 16:54 |
| Charlie_X | ignas - the easiest solution if you want to use non-ASCII is to decode it manually and pass a unicode string to ZopePageTemplate. | 16:55 |
| Charlie_X | It's not pretty but it does work. | 16:56 |
| Charlie_X | The proper alternative is probably to use a dedicated browser view | 16:56 |
| ignas | well, it is the final destination | 16:57 |
| ignas | but I need an intermediate stepping stone | 16:57 |
| ignas | I want to reuse the original template unchanged | 16:57 |
| Charlie_X | Sure | 16:57 |
| ignas | i am warry | 16:58 |
| ignas | that ZopePageTemplate | 16:58 |
| ignas | will not set up the context right | 16:58 |
| ignas | PageTemplateFile sets up the context differently | 16:58 |
| Charlie_X | pt_getContext is the same for both. | 17:00 |
| ignas | indeed | 17:01 |
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| Charlie_X | Or you could subclass PageTemplateFile to do the same thing but that looks more complicated. | 17:05 |
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| ignas | Charlie_X, thought about that, but subclassing ZopePageTemplate is probably easier ;) in case I get tired of the inline solution | 17:06 |
| ignas | aw, now realized the problem | 17:07 |
| ignas | template refresh won | 17:07 |
| ignas | won't work | 17:07 |
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| ignas | if I use ZopePageTemplate.... | 17:07 |
| betabug | just replace the text in question with variables and pipe in the content through code | 17:07 |
| betabug | e.g. a translation framework | 17:07 |
| ignas | not translation | 17:08 |
| ignas | refresh, as in - I change file system | 17:08 |
| ignas | hmm, though Zope product refresh might catch this | 17:08 |
| Charlie_X | Not sure what you mean about template refresh with ZopePageTemplate. | 17:08 |
| ignas | ahh | 17:08 |
| betabug | zope product refresh hasn't been working right since about 2.9 | 17:08 |
| ignas | misconception | 17:08 |
| betabug | nobody uses it any more | 17:09 |
| ignas | betabug, works fine for me, most of the time | 17:09 |
| ignas | betabug, way better than a restart | 17:09 |
| ignas | 90% of the time | 17:09 |
| Charlie_X | You mean after you make changes to the template in the file system? | 17:09 |
| ignas | nah, everything is fine | 17:09 |
| ignas | i am reading the tempalte on every request | 17:09 |
| ignas | so it will work | 17:09 |
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| betabug | just changing a zpt on the file system should work fine, as long as the instance runs in debug mode (e.g. zopectl fg) | 17:09 |
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| ignas | ok, got it working, now what is the easiest way to "redirect" as in - render the content of my view instead of the original one? | 17:12 |
| ignas | i have a TTW directory Foo/ with a view in it list so it's Foo/list | 17:12 |
| ignas | i have added a product Foo/Foo_product that has Foo/Foo_product/list | 17:12 |
| ignas | i want to deprecate the Foo/list without changing all the places that might be referring to it | 17:13 |
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| Charlie_X | You can use restrictedTraverse in the "list" script. | 17:14 |
| Charlie_X | Or redirect, if you prefer. | 17:14 |
| ignas | list is a zpt | 17:14 |
| ignas | so you mean - I can replace it with a python script and do restrictedTraverse in it? | 17:14 |
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| Charlie_X | Yes | 17:14 |
| * Charlie_X waves to baijum | 17:15 | |
| Charlie_X | If you are deprecating it, yes. | 17:15 |
| Charlie_X | You could add a condition to render the template (which would need renaming) if necessary | 17:16 |
| Charlie_X | Writing a dedicated browser view is the solution. | 17:17 |
| ignas | sorry, I am not sure what you are suggesting | 17:17 |
| ignas | and what does a BrowserView have to do with it? | 17:17 |
| ignas | if Foo/ was not a simple folder but some object, or would implement an interface, I could probably make "list" a view for it | 17:18 |
| ignas | and hope that Zope2 traversal will work identically | 17:18 |
| Charlie_X | All Zope objects implement at least one interface | 17:19 |
| ignas | yes, and like 10 folders in my system have a "list" | 17:19 |
| ignas | view | 17:19 |
| ignas | so if i will add a list view for non-specific interface, i will break the system | 17:20 |
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| Charlie_X | I only mention a browser view as that would solve your encoding problem. | 17:20 |
| ignas | nah, encoding is solved | 17:20 |
| ignas | I mean - it works now :) | 17:20 |
| ignas | I am thinking of a way to move from TTW views to views on a product | 17:20 |
| ignas | without breaking any code | 17:21 |
| Charlie_X | I'm not sure I understand your use case. Do you have different "list"s in different folders? | 17:21 |
| Charlie_X | If not I can't see the product being any help. | 17:21 |
| ignas | Accounts/list Accounts/addAccount Clients/list Clients/addClient | 17:21 |
| ignas | I am working on Clients | 17:21 |
| ignas | so I add Clients/Clients_product | 17:22 |
| ignas | make Clients/clients_product/list identical to Clients/list | 17:22 |
| ignas | now I want to remove Clients/list somehow and use the one from the product | 17:22 |
| ignas | without breaking *anything* | 17:22 |
| ignas | problem is - i can't be sure how many ways are used to access the list (which is a zpt method at the moment) | 17:23 |
| ignas | someone might be doing system.Clients.list in some code | 17:23 |
| Charlie_X | You could do exactly the same with a browser view and a PythonScript. You could add additional checks in the various views. | 17:23 |
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| ignas | problem is, the "other" code, not code in Clients is "read-only" for all practical purposes | 17:25 |
| Charlie_X | Now I am confused. I really don't think you need a Product for this. | 17:27 |
| ignas | I want to have the code in the file system | 17:27 |
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| ignas | because I like having a good editor, a good VCS, and a nice way to deploy the application | 17:27 |
| ignas | 100K lines of TTW code is not my idea of a maintainable system | 17:28 |
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| ignas | I know that in Zope3 attribute access and view access are very different | 17:28 |
| ignas | question is - in Zope2 | 17:28 |
| Charlie_X | Agreed. But why not go straight to a browser view? | 17:28 |
| ignas | how does that help me? | 17:29 |
| ignas | i create a BrowserView and set *what* as it's conext in ZCML? | 17:29 |
| Charlie_X | You replace all your individual "list" templates with PythonScripts that return the "correct" view - "client_list", "account_list", etc. | 17:29 |
| Charlie_X | OFS.interfaces.IFolder | 17:29 |
| ignas | you are suggesting a shared namespace? | 17:29 |
| ignas | and all views (hundereds of them) | 17:30 |
| ignas | in one shared namespace? | 17:30 |
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| Charlie_X | A shared namespace is probably inevitable. | 17:30 |
| ignas | well, it is, having a Clients product and Accounts product as 2 separate entities for example | 17:30 |
| Charlie_X | You could use marker interfaces to tag the individual folders. | 17:30 |
| ignas | replacing Folder with some object that implements interface like IClient | 17:31 |
| ignas | but it's not about Views | 17:31 |
| ignas | my problem is | 17:31 |
| ignas | how do I make list "python script" act | 17:31 |
| ignas | the same way as list "zpt" | 17:31 |
| Charlie_X | Easy | 17:31 |
| ignas | because if someone did list.macros | 17:31 |
| ignas | in some code | 17:31 |
| ignas | my python script will not really have that method | 17:31 |
| Charlie_X | hm, you're screwed in that case. But Products won't help in that case either. | 17:33 |
| ignas | yes | 17:33 |
| ignas | but I don't have a Products vs Views problem | 17:33 |
| ignas | i have "how do I refactor without breaking *any* API" problem | 17:33 |
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| ignas | <- 4 years of Zope3 here, so I know what a browser view is ;) | 17:34 |
| Charlie_X | You could try adding a macros definition to the script. | 17:34 |
| ignas | what I mean | 17:34 |
| ignas | I don't know what is being done to the lis | 17:34 |
| ignas | "list" | 17:34 |
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| ignas | and I have no way of finding out :/ | 17:34 |
| ignas | I though that maybe there was some way of saying "hey, folder, can you treat this Product/class as your Base class, k thx" | 17:34 |
| Charlie_X | I agree, it's an ugly mess. | 17:35 |
| ignas | if it was a small Folder with 5-6 methods/views i'd just move it in one go | 17:36 |
| ignas | replace Clients with a product, and taDa, everything works, methods return stuff, templates return html | 17:36 |
| ignas | but it's like 140 items in that Folder, and I don't like editing 50 kb of ZPT through the web ;) | 17:37 |
| Charlie_X | If macro access is required then redirection is out. It still might be possible to provide access to the macros through a view class but it would be quite a hack. | 17:37 |
| ignas | i don't know if macro access is required | 17:37 |
| Charlie_X | FSPageTemplate would help there. | 17:37 |
| ignas | but I don't have a way to test whether I broke *anything*... | 17:37 |
| ignas | the system is too big | 17:37 |
| ignas | so i will probably replace the zpt with a python method | 17:38 |
| ignas | and hope the only interaction with that teplate is "render" | 17:38 |
| ignas | then do it with the next and *hope*, and .... and *hope* | 17:38 |
| ignas | but I don't like the *hope* part ;) | 17:38 |
| Charlie_X | As I said you could at least use FSTemplate to get everything into the file system. | 17:40 |
| ignas | 50% of the stuff is python methods | 17:41 |
| ignas | well - python scripts that return dicts and are a security hole most of the time really | 17:41 |
| ignas | how do I tell Zope2 that "hey, don't let anyone call this python script directly, only let it be invoked from another method or template" | 17:42 |
| Charlie_X | FSPythonScript for them | 17:43 |
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| Charlie_X | I'm a bit hazy on context/container but I think you could check the container. | 17:45 |
| Charlie_X | But in truth there is no easy solution to that particular problem. | 17:45 |
| ignas | I am not sure I like the idea of using FSPythonScript/template because the result is not something I'd implement, as in - if I was developing this application from scratch, it would be a proper Zope2 product, with ZCA views for views, etc. so I'd like to move in that direction, not towards a solution that will still be tied into ZODB very tightly | 17:46 |
| ignas | with the product way, my idea is - as soon as all methods get moved into product, I cut the folder, replace it with the product, and the only thing in ZODB in the end is "TheProduct" | 17:47 |
| ignas | and mysql connection probably | 17:47 |
| Charlie_X | oh, so you want a Product instance to replace each folder? | 17:48 |
| Charlie_X | I only suggested the FS products as a stop gap. | 17:49 |
| baijum | Hi Charlie_X | 17:50 |
| Charlie_X | hiya matey | 17:51 |
| ignas | yeah, I want to replace each folder or at least the most complicated folders with a Product, and then probably replace all the products with one product (integrating multiple FS products into a single product is doable) | 17:51 |
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| Charlie_X | Well, good luck with it! | 17:53 |
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| ignas | thanks, hope the money will last :D | 17:54 |
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| * Charlie_X clears throat | 18:00 | |
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| agroszer | Charlie_X, crack the whip | 18:01 |
| Charlie_X | Looks like I'll have to although Theuni said he would be along today. | 18:02 |
| Charlie_X | Who else is around? | 18:02 |
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| Theuni1 | howdi | 18:03 |
| * ccomb not far | 18:03 | |
| * Charlie_X breathes a sigh of relief | 18:03 | |
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| Theuni1 | Did you start? :) | 18:04 |
| Charlie_X | Okay, let's start. | 18:04 |
| Charlie_X | Adam - status of KGS please | 18:04 |
| agroszer | yah | 18:04 |
| agroszer | I managed jens to upload a 3.4.1b1 | 18:05 |
| agroszer | he is rather protecting access to the server | 18:05 |
| agroszer | docs and changes etc is missing | 18:05 |
| agroszer | I'm not sure whether there should be a .tgz and .exe release | 18:06 |
| Charlie_X | Okay. When will they be finished? From the ML I guess that all tests are now passing? | 18:06 |
| agroszer | yep all tests pass | 18:06 |
| Charlie_X | :-) | 18:06 |
| agroszer | I guess a 3.4.1c1 on the weekend | 18:06 |
| Theuni1 | Sounds good. Did you get any feedback from users? | 18:07 |
| agroszer | if I kill the docs | 18:07 |
| Charlie_X | Exactly what will be released depends on what can be built. | 18:07 |
| agroszer | not announced yet | 18:07 |
| Charlie_X | If the beta is now available then it could be announced. | 18:07 |
| Charlie_X | But missing docs is not good. | 18:08 |
| agroszer | yup, I know, Jens did the upload just today morning | 18:08 |
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| agroszer | well the release cycle is a bit misterious | 18:08 |
| agroszer | and it's a lot easier if you can hack around on the server ;-) | 18:08 |
| agroszer | anyway I'll announce now | 18:08 |
| Charlie_X | Great! More next week. | 18:09 |
| baijum | We should have a link to available Downloads here: http://download.zope.org/ At least a Apache "Index" option for the directory | 18:09 |
| Charlie_X | hm, who's responsible for deciding that? Might be an idea to float on the mailing list. I don't think we have time and representation for now. | 18:10 |
| Charlie_X | Next - ccomb | 18:11 |
| Charlie_X | Any progress on windows builds? | 18:11 |
| Charlie_X | I tried to check out Windows Azure myself but the mime type was broken! | 18:12 |
| ccomb | I don't know about windows build, but I can probably set up 64bits linux buildbots soon | 18:12 |
| ccomb | with the help of yotaff | 18:12 |
| agroszer | Charlie_X, last week we were waiting on sidnei | 18:12 |
| Charlie_X | I would have thought that if we are getting MS support, they would prefer us to promote Azure over EC2 | 18:12 |
| Charlie_X | ccomb: good news | 18:13 |
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| Charlie_X | Is sidnei around? | 18:13 |
| Charlie_X | Apparently not. | 18:14 |
| agroszer | or, anyone in contact with sidnei? | 18:14 |
| sidnei | wassup | 18:14 |
| Charlie_X | Windows builds require your help, apparently. | 18:14 |
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| Theuni1 | From the foundation we still have the open issue that the board is willing to put in money, but we need a more specific proposal on who will be responsible for making the investment worthwhile (watching that they get used appropriately). | 18:15 |
| sidnei | i have an AMI with python2.6 and vs express edition. should be able to build 64 bits and 32 bits | 18:15 |
| sidnei | i need someone's amazon id to assign rights to the ami | 18:15 |
| agroszer | sidnei, you have any docs how to set it up? | 18:15 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei: so that means that the person the foundation is missing is also the missing link for you ;) | 18:16 |
| sidnei | not really. install python, install vs, install platform tools. that's it. | 18:16 |
| agroszer | sounds liek straight forward | 18:16 |
| baijum | agroszer: This page looks nice :) http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/CompilingForWindows we need more info there. | 18:17 |
| sidnei | that's about it yeah. xp/64 also works. | 18:18 |
| Theuni1 | Hmm. Seems like we're a bit stuck. | 18:19 |
| * baijum added PhiliKON's blog entry entry there: http://philikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/cheap-binary-windows-eggs/ | 18:19 | |
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| agroszer | baijum, yes that's the MinGW stuff | 18:19 |
| Charlie_X | Okay. agroszer do you an amazon id? | 18:20 |
| agroszer | I'm not sure ;-) | 18:20 |
| agroszer | maybe I tested it once | 18:20 |
| Theuni1 | Charlie_X: you're aiming that make agroszer take over running the windows machines, right? | 18:20 |
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| agroszer | hold | 18:20 |
| Theuni1 | s/that/to/ | 18:21 |
| agroszer | do we want to go the EC2 way or thehealtagency? | 18:21 |
| Theuni1 | I don't really care which way we go :) | 18:22 |
| Charlie_X | I thought we'd decided on EC2 for windows although the conditions of the licence need checking. | 18:22 |
| Charlie_X | agroszer: Could you check whether you have an amazon id? | 18:22 |
| Theuni1 | I'd like the result to have regular windows builds on machines accessible by community members. | 18:22 |
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| Theuni1 | And I figured that we're about to go down the EC2 route. | 18:22 |
| agroszer | ok, we take the EC2 route | 18:23 |
| Charlie_X | No Tres so no information on the MS licences. Or have you ccomb or agroszer heard anything? | 18:23 |
| * agroszer checking that amazon ID | 18:23 | |
| ccomb | I don't | 18:23 |
| agroszer | Charlie_X, naaah | 18:23 |
| agroszer | as it seems we could do it without the msdn licenses | 18:24 |
| agroszer | no, my bad | 18:24 |
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| agroszer | because of py2.5 64bit | 18:24 |
| * Charlie_X take a letter Miss Jones, Dear Mr. Microsoft, re. licences when are you going to get back to us. And by the way when are you going to fix your website? | 18:25 | |
| sidnei | py2.5 64bit is impossible | 18:25 |
| sidnei | on windows | 18:25 |
| Theuni1 | wuah? | 18:25 |
| agroszer | why? | 18:25 |
| Charlie_X | Python 2.5 is nice to have only. | 18:25 |
| sidnei | no one uses it, because it's too broken | 18:25 |
| Theuni1 | ic | 18:25 |
| sidnei | that's what Mark Hammond told me. i trust him more than a bit on anything Windows related. | 18:25 |
| agroszer | is py 2.6 64bit better? | 18:26 |
| Charlie_X | Okay time running out on this. agroszer are you going to pursue this for next week? | 18:27 |
| agroszer | but as second priority | 18:27 |
| Charlie_X | Sure | 18:27 |
| agroszer | let's get first KGS3.4.1 out | 18:27 |
| Charlie_X | Agreed | 18:27 |
| Charlie_X | Next | 18:27 |
| Charlie_X | Bugday | 18:28 |
| baijum | ZTK Status ? | 18:28 |
| ccomb | (seems hannosh and jan-wijbrand are not there) | 18:28 |
| Theuni1 | they had a meeting, i didn't make it | 18:28 |
| ccomb | we had a meeting last week | 18:28 |
| baijum | ccomb: I can see good progress in docs | 18:28 |
| ccomb | seems we aggree on most topics | 18:28 |
| ccomb | I've created a tool to detect minor or major version upgrades | 18:29 |
| sidnei | py26-x64 is fine | 18:29 |
| ccomb | A first draft is there http://bitbucket.org/ccomb/z3c.checkversions | 18:29 |
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| ccomb | I will eventually put it in the svn | 18:30 |
| Charlie_X | Good stuff. When's your next meeting with Hanno and Jan-Wijbrand? | 18:30 |
| ccomb | probably soon | 18:31 |
| ccomb | we should have met before this meeting | 18:31 |
| Charlie_X | Okay | 18:31 |
| Charlie_X | Finally - bugday | 18:31 |
| ccomb | anyway what we need for the ZTK is a full buildbot | 18:31 |
| Charlie_X | http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/BugDay20100519 | 18:31 |
| Charlie_X | But we need some triaging before then. | 18:32 |
| Theuni1 | I think i'll get around doing some of that this weekend | 18:32 |
| Charlie_X | Great. | 18:32 |
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| Charlie_X | Any other business? | 18:33 |
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| Theuni1 | not from me :)\ | 18:33 |
| Charlie_X | Right, then I think we're done for this week. | 18:34 |
| Charlie_X | Hopefully we can close KGS next week and make room for something else. | 18:34 |
| Charlie_X | Theuni1: have you got a suggestion for where we should put the IRC-logs? | 18:34 |
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| Theuni1 | I haven't read up on the thread in the list, I would guess putting them in the ZTK docs would be reasonable. Or in the developer docs. | 18:35 |
| Theuni1 | i need to walk around AFK for a bit | 18:36 |
| agroszer | Charlie_X, no need to copy, you can link to it | 18:36 |
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| Charlie_X | agroszer: I meant the summary. There were requests for the summary to be generally available. | 18:37 |
| agroszer | oops | 18:37 |
| baijum | Charlie_X: What about ZTK wiki ? | 18:38 |
| baijum | http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/ZopeToolKit | 18:38 |
| baijum | I created a page there already: http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/WeeklyIRCMeeting | 18:38 |
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| baijum | now just one link to ozzope page | 18:39 |
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| Charlie_X | baijum: I think the summary paper trail could benefit from being in the repository. | 18:40 |
| baijum | Charlie_X: ah. ok | 18:40 |
| Charlie_X | I don't think either the repository or a wiki are particularly suited for a minutes function but on reflection the repository is a bit more formal. | 18:42 |
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| baijum | Charlie_X: So, we will also move previous summaries there ? | 18:44 |
| baijum | I mean svn | 18:44 |
| Charlie_X | It was raised on the list and that was the suggestion. | 18:45 |
| Charlie_X | Yes. | 18:45 |
| agroszer | sidnei, which ID do you need? | 18:45 |
| baijum | Charlie_X: ah. ok | 18:46 |
| Charlie_X | Nice of Jan to put them on the OzZope site as well. | 18:46 |
| Charlie_X | If we ever got round to needing agendas working out it might be an idea to have a wiki for them. But probably more sensible to have a wiki for some of the "ongoing" issues that we're never going to be able to address in these intentionally short meetings. | 18:48 |
| sidnei | agroszer, i believe it's the account number, let me confirm | 18:48 |
| agroszer | sidnei, "AWS Account ID"? | 18:48 |
| sidnei | agroszer, sounds like it | 18:49 |
| agroszer | sidnei, AWS Account ID:2914-3602-6055 | 18:49 |
| sidnei | meep! Invalid AWS Account Number. Make sure you enter an AWS Account Number (and not an AWS Access ID) | 18:49 |
| sidnei | agroszer, i think its the one that shows up right under your name from the Account Activity page | 18:50 |
| agroszer | it's the same: Account Number 2914-3602-6055 | 18:50 |
| agroszer | might be that the account is being prepared? | 18:50 |
| agroszer | but it was just confirmed now | 18:51 |
| agroszer | sidnei, try again | 18:51 |
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| sidnei | still nay | 18:53 |
| agroszer | bugger | 18:53 |
| sidnei | oh, took the dashes out, worked | 18:54 |
| agroszer | nice feature, those dashes ;-) | 18:54 |
| agroszer | what's the name/ID of that image? | 18:55 |
| sidnei | ami-3bc02e52 | 18:55 |
| sidnei | >lunch | 18:59 |
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| CIA-46 | wichert * r112245 z3c.pt/ (CHANGES.txt src/z3c/pt/pagetemplate.py): Look at language set on request before invoking the zope.i18n negotiator. This makes i18n work again on Zope2. | 19:47 |
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| hvelarde | hi, there! | 20:32 |
| hvelarde | anybody from Gocept over here? | 20:32 |
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| Theuni1 | hvelarde: that would be me | 21:11 |
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| hvelarde | Theuni1: hi, I'm doing some research on ZRS and zeoraid | 21:19 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: are you still maintaining zeoraid? | 21:19 |
| Theuni1 | sure | 21:19 |
| Theuni1 | except that it's not in maintenance but in development ;) | 21:19 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: great :-) could you please explain to me, in short, the differences between ZRS and zeoraid (beyond the licence) | 21:20 |
| Theuni1 | i don't know much about ZRS | 21:20 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: ok, let me ask you in a different way | 21:21 |
| Theuni1 | zeoraid operates the way that it synchronises underlying storages (e.g. two or more zeo servers) like a RAID 1 would | 21:21 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: we're working on a project for a huge government entity here in México | 21:21 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: they want a deployment separated outside and inside a firewall | 21:22 |
| Theuni1 | afaik ZRS uses a master/slave approach where the master synchronises to the slave which your clients can fall back to when the master fails. i don't know anything more specific. | 21:22 |
| * Theuni1 listens | 21:22 | |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: mmm, the production servers are going to be in write mode, inside and in read mode outside | 21:22 |
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| hvelarde | Theuni1: I was analyzing this presentation http://www.slideshare.net/wooda/jared-whitlock-open-source-in-the-enterprise-plone-novell | 21:23 |
| Theuni1 | hmm. a low-tech approach for that would be using the filestorage backup script to transfer incremental data | 21:23 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: as they have a similar architecture but they were using ZRS | 21:23 |
| Theuni1 | the only issue would be that you'd have to restart the zeo server after every update | 21:24 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: but they also want high availability | 21:24 |
| Theuni1 | zeoraid is intended to provide both | 21:24 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: yes | 21:24 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: ok | 21:24 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: are you Christian Theune? | 21:24 |
| Theuni1 | for WAN links we want an asynchronous mode that would push write operations quickly but without blocking to the remote end, for high availability we want the storages to commit synchronously | 21:24 |
| Theuni1 | yes | 21:25 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: ok | 21:25 |
| hvelarde | tomorrow we have a meeting and we will find out more on this | 21:25 |
| hvelarde | I'll be in touch when I have the idea clear | 21:25 |
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| hvelarde | these guys want to migrate from Vignette to Plone (probably) | 21:26 |
| hvelarde | Theuni1: thanks,we'll be in touch :) | 21:26 |
| Theuni1 | sure | 21:26 |
| Theuni1 | good luck | 21:26 |
| benji | for what it's worth, ZRS works by sending updates to secondaries (slaves) asynchronously | 21:26 |
| Theuni1 | benji: ah. so that would be a difference as zeoraid keeps transaction-level integrity. | 21:28 |
| benji | ZRS does too (a transaction has either landed on the secondary or not), but it doesn't require that all secondaries have a transaction before the primary considers the transaction comitted | 21:29 |
| Theuni1 | ah | 21:29 |
| Theuni1 | that would be what i intend for the remote links | 21:29 |
| benji | on average the transaction makes it to all secondaries within seconds, but it lets you do some cool stuff too | 21:29 |
| benji | right | 21:29 |
| Theuni1 | yeah, like quick read-only WAN sites | 21:30 |
| benji | for example you can do off-site backups by only running a secondary at night (when bandwidth is cheaper) and having it "catch up" on all the day's transactions | 21:30 |
| Theuni1 | yeah | 21:30 |
| Theuni1 | one thing i'm playing with is multi-master | 21:30 |
| Theuni1 | you can already run multiple zeoraid servers with the same set of zeo backends and have clients switch freely between any of them | 21:31 |
| Theuni1 | except that split brains aren't covered 100% yet | 21:31 |
| benji | network partitions are hard to deal with | 21:31 |
| Theuni1 | so right you now better have an uneven/prime number of servers involved | 21:31 |
| Theuni1 | DRBD has some interesting stuff to say aboud that | 21:32 |
| Theuni1 | right now we'll go to cover some specific scenarios and provide at least a read-only environment when split-brains are detected | 21:32 |
| benji | makes sense | 21:33 |
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