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| planetzopebot | Products.ColorField 0.3.1 (PyPI recent updates) http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Products.ColorField/0.3.1 | 02:34 |
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| CIA-94 | janjaapdriessen * r112877 /Sandbox/janjaapdriessen/buildbot/buildout.cfg: mail the zope2, zope2.12 and ztk build results to the zope-tests mailing list | 09:44 |
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| CIA-94 | janjaapdriessen * r112878 /Sandbox/janjaapdriessen/buildbot/buildout.cfg: always mail build results. | 10:44 |
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| Charlie_X | Theuni1: here? | 12:10 |
| Theuni1 | zup | 12:10 |
| Charlie_X | Du machst heute wieder Einladung usw? | 12:10 |
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| CIA-94 | janwijbrand * r112879 grokcore.view/ (3 files in 3 dirs): accept and pass on status and trusted arguments to the redirect method | 12:49 |
| CIA-94 | janwijbrand 1.13 * r112880 grokcore.view/ (4 files in 3 dirs): port the bugfix for accepting and passing on the status and redirect arguments to the redirect method | 12:49 |
| CIA-94 | janwijbrand 1.13 * r112881 grokcore.view/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Preparing release 1.13.4 | 12:49 |
| CIA-94 | janwijbrand * r112882 /grokcore.view/tags/1.13.4: Tagging 1.13.4 | 12:49 |
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| Theuni1 | Charlie_X: einladung mach ich, ich weiss nicht ob ich da sein kann | 12:52 |
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| Charlie_X | Oké | 12:54 |
| Charlie_X | Ich bin auf jeden Fall dabei, nachdem ich letzte Woche auf dem Fahrrad saß... | 12:54 |
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| CIA-94 | janwijbrand 1.13 * r112883 grokcore.view/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Back to development: 1.13.5 | 13:03 |
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| planetzopebot | Sorrento Sprint Summary - collective.amberjack progress report (RedTurtle Technology) http://blog.redturtle.it/redturtle-blog/sorrento-sprint-summary-collective.amberjack-progress-report | 13:04 |
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| new | how can iinclude ZPT in disk based product? | 13:09 |
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| CIA-94 | jim * r112884 /Sandbox/J1m/zodb-doc/intro.txt: *** empty log message *** | 13:18 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112885 /Sandbox/J1m/zodb-doc/object-life-cycle.dia: | 13:18 |
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| betabug | by having some patience and waiting for a reply if you ask a question? | 13:44 |
| bigkevmcd | it's not like there's any existing products that use zpts... | 13:46 |
| betabug | hey big guy | 13:47 |
| bigkevmcd | hey betabug | 13:48 |
| bigkevmcd | how's yersel? | 13:48 |
| betabug | hungry, awaiting lunch :-) | 13:48 |
| betabug | I have a muffin here, but eating it before lunch would be cheating | 13:50 |
| Charlie_X | Is it really a muffin? Or just a bun? | 13:51 |
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| betabug | how do I know? | 14:03 |
| betabug | I'm trying not to look at it right now | 14:03 |
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| Charlie_X | If it's sweet it's a bun. Google for oven bottom muffins | 14:10 |
| betabug | I guess then it's a bun, cuz it has chocolate | 14:11 |
| betabug | shall I sue the bakery for selling me a bun labelled "muffin"? | 14:11 |
| Charlie_X | No, but a stern look is probably a good idea. tsk, tsk | 14:12 |
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| mup | Bug #588260 was filed: Support unittest2 class and module fixtures <zope.testrunner:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/588260> | 14:44 |
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| hever | How can I manipulate "Metadata Contents" for a catalog record ? | 16:18 |
| betabug | set the relevant attributes on your objects, recatalog them | 16:18 |
| hever | hmm. If I'm going to remove all data for an attribute of all objects, how can I do that? | 16:20 |
| betabug | why not just remove the metadata column in the catalog? | 16:21 |
| betabug | otherwise you'd have to find all objects and loop through them | 16:21 |
| hever | yes I thought of this, and then readd id ? | 16:21 |
| betabug | sorry, didn't understand that? | 16:21 |
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| hever | I'm going to set all values to 0. So I can remove the metadata column and re-add it after I removed it ? | 16:22 |
| Charlie_X | That will work | 16:22 |
| betabug | if you set all values anyway, you don't need to remove the column | 16:22 |
| betabug | you can just reindex the catalog | 16:23 |
| betabug | you can even reindex only the metadata, see some code examples here: http://betabug.ch/blogs/ch-athens/708 | 16:23 |
| hever | There are a lot of objects, so I'm not going to change them all manually. Removing and readding the metadata column seems the easiest solution. | 16:23 |
| betabug | it won't change anything if the objects don't change | 16:24 |
| betabug | unless you plan to never reindex stuff | 16:24 |
| hever | hmm... so I have to write some code that does this for me and zope/plone can't help me with this.... | 16:25 |
| Charlie_X | You could use the catalogue search to get you all your objects so you can change the metadata. | 16:25 |
| betabug | I think you should state your objective clearer, that will probably get your head out of having to hunt for weird workarounds :-) | 16:26 |
| betabug | what are you really trying to do? | 16:26 |
| Charlie_X | What do you want Zope to do? It's your job to update the metadata. The catalogue just reflects that. | 16:26 |
| betabug | metadata in the catalog and attribute on the object have a very good reason to show the same thing? | 16:26 |
| hever | Erasing the count of the EasyRatings product. | 16:27 |
| Charlie_X | Sounds like a feature request for EasyRatings | 16:27 |
| betabug | yupp | 16:27 |
| betabug | and sounds like plain resetting the catalog metadata column will just live till the next edit of the object | 16:28 |
| Charlie_X | If that is a Plone product, changing the metadata could be a bit tricky thanks to the curse of archetypes. | 16:28 |
| hever | sure but this is not realistic. | 16:28 |
| bigkevmcd | in fairness, it would be funny if the catalog reflected a totally different value from the object :-) | 16:28 |
| betabug | so the rating will show 0, till someone votes, then it'll jump to 5 | 16:28 |
| bigkevmcd | hever: so, write a script to change that value | 16:28 |
| bigkevmcd | hever: should be fairly easy to do | 16:28 |
| Charlie_X | Dead easy | 16:29 |
| betabug | childs play | 16:30 |
| betabug | in fact I'd be doing it for you, in an IRC window, with one hand tied behind my back, if only... a.) it wasn't plone related and b.) I wasn't about to eat this muff^H^H^H^Hbun | 16:31 |
| CIA-94 | ctheune * r112887 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/ (zope-dev-20100601.rst index.rst): Add today's agenda. | 16:31 |
| hever | ;) | 16:34 |
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| j-w | hi ccomb | 17:00 |
| j-w | no hanno yet? | 17:00 |
| * ccomb here | 17:00 | |
| ccomb | hi j-w | 17:00 |
| CIA-94 | cklinger * r112888 megrok.z3cform.base/src/megrok/z3cform/base/ (__init__.py declarations.py tests/test_declarations.py): added a decorator for button labels | 17:01 |
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| j-w | look, there he is! | 17:02 |
| j-w | hannosch: hi! | 17:02 |
| hannosch | hi, I'm really here in 3 min... | 17:02 |
| j-w | hannosch: ok, we will wait | 17:02 |
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| hannosch | ok, got water :) | 17:04 |
| hannosch | hi :) | 17:04 |
| * hannosch applauds ccomb for actually doing lots of stuff | 17:05 | |
| * j-w applauds too | 17:06 | |
| hannosch | mmh, j-w you seem to agree with me :)) | 17:06 |
| j-w | sorry about that :) | 17:06 |
| * ccomb reading the last mails | 17:06 | |
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| hannosch | If we agree that's awesome, makes things simpler :) | 17:07 |
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| ccomb | ok, it seems the splitting is not optimal | 17:07 |
| j-w | while working on the grok1.1.1 release last week, where we use a "gtk", I found that much of the things you said were actually true in practice | 17:07 |
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| j-w | so, while working on the "gtk" I could try some of the ideas we had for the ZTK itself | 17:07 |
| hannosch | well, I have some release experience from Plone - I got some insights into lazy developers minds | 17:08 |
| j-w | and as a result there's http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/1.1.1/versions.cfg that does what we thinkthe ZTK release should provide as well (right?) | 17:08 |
| j-w | hannosch: sure :-) | 17:08 |
| j-w | BTW, we formally start the meeting? | 17:09 |
| ccomb | it seems so :) | 17:09 |
| hannosch | yes, we should | 17:09 |
| j-w | someone taking notes and such...? | 17:09 |
| ccomb | j-w: ? :P | 17:09 |
| j-w | ok :) | 17:09 |
| j-w | just a moment | 17:09 |
| * j-w opening editor | 17:09 | |
| ccomb | otherwise I'm always logging all channels | 17:10 |
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| ccomb | concerning the experiments I've been doing in my branch | 17:10 |
| j-w | ccomb, hannosch you agree on last meeting notes? | 17:10 |
| ccomb | the one two weeks ago? | 17:11 |
| j-w | (ccomb thanks for the addtions btw) | 17:11 |
| hannosch | +1 on last notes (2010-05-18) | 17:11 |
| ccomb | +1 too | 17:12 |
| j-w | before we get to ccomb work, let's look at the tasks from that meeting, ok? | 17:12 |
| hannosch | ok | 17:12 |
| ccomb | ok | 17:12 |
| j-w | janjaap worked on the buildbot testing the ztk (and other things) | 17:12 |
| hever | betabug, how can I access the meta data? it's not getProperty... | 17:12 |
| j-w | it should be sending reports to the zope-test address as of today | 17:13 |
| betabug | hever: the metadata in the catalog? or what is on the object? | 17:13 |
| hannosch | cool, so starting tomorrow we should have results for Windows? | 17:13 |
| j-w | the 64bit-windows is still missing from it though | 17:13 |
| hever | betabug, oh sry. the data on the object | 17:13 |
| j-w | hannosch: that's the idea | 17:14 |
| hannosch | j-w: right, I think we are waiting on the zope foundation msdn licences for the 64bit machines | 17:14 |
| betabug | hever: just a simple getattr(object, 'attrname', 'default value if needed') | 17:14 |
| agroszer | hannosch, nope, just on the virtual server financing | 17:14 |
| j-w | the 64-bit windows has to wait though, from janjaaps part - we're rather busy from this week on... | 17:14 |
| agroszer | hannosch, they should decide tomorrow | 17:14 |
| hannosch | agroszer: that's your part, this is janjapp who already has a buildout infrrastructure on VMWare | 17:15 |
| betabug | hever: maybe testing if it's a method and calling it if necessary | 17:15 |
| betabug | hever: e.g. res = callable(res) and res() or res | 17:15 |
| j-w | hannosch, ccomb I'll leave this task in the minutes though, until we indeed see the mails comming in | 17:15 |
| hannosch | j-w: sounds good | 17:15 |
| agroszer | emmm, we're talking about ZTK egg building and buildbots or not? | 17:15 |
| hannosch | sure. there's two efforts for that | 17:16 |
| hannosch | yours and janjaaps | 17:16 |
| j-w | to what extend are these efforts overlapping? | 17:16 |
| hannosch | to some degree, they both depend on the msdn licences to some degree | 17:17 |
| agroszer | naah, why do we need msdn licences? | 17:17 |
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| * hannosch has a bit of a had wifi | 17:17 | |
| j-w | hannosch: I do think we do have a windows license we could use for a 64-bit vm | 17:17 |
| j-w | hannosch: within The Health Agency that is | 17:18 |
| hannosch | j-w: ok, that would be good. I think we still want the msdn stuff to get compilers | 17:18 |
| agroszer | VS express is free | 17:18 |
| agroszer | even for business uses | 17:18 |
| j-w | our buildbot have intentionally no compilers installed | 17:18 |
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| hever | betabug, I'm getting 0 for all objects... http://pastebin.com/atxjgLLx | 17:19 |
| j-w | to test whether the released packages actually work for the general "consumer" | 17:19 |
| agroszer | j-w, that's a good point | 17:19 |
| betabug | hever: you're doing hasattr, not getattr | 17:19 |
| hever | yes to check if it has such an attr | 17:20 |
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| betabug | hever: other than that, I can't help, I don't know your objects or environment | 17:20 |
| hannosch | janjaap! | 17:20 |
| janjaap | hi there | 17:20 |
| hever | because as I used getattr I got an error and I thought ok perhaps sometimes it doesn't exist so lets check its existance first... | 17:20 |
| betabug | hever: that's what the default value is for | 17:20 |
| j-w | ccomb: I think your "task" from the last meeting is done, right? | 17:21 |
| betabug | but make sure you have the name of the attribute right | 17:21 |
| betabug | that's the obvious mistake to make | 17:21 |
| j-w | where you would revive the ZTK buildbot yourself too | 17:21 |
| betabug | besides running plone, ofcoz | 17:21 |
| hannosch | j-w, agroszer: should we discuss all details of windows now? or should we discuss that during the zope-dev meeting / via mail? I'd like to talk about the ZTK version files | 17:21 |
| hever | But I'm just going to reset the value where it already exists.... | 17:21 |
| hever | the name is correct. | 17:21 |
| agroszer | hannosch, move on, let's take this offline | 17:22 |
| ccomb | j-w: my task was to check for bluebream versions | 17:22 |
| j-w | the win64 dicussion should be outside of this meeting I'd say | 17:22 |
| betabug | dunno then, maybe the objects aren't where you are looking? | 17:22 |
| betabug | print out the objects id and other data to check in your loop | 17:22 |
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| ccomb | j-w: hannosch I've actually synced bb versions to ztk | 17:22 |
| ccomb | but ztk has changed again yet | 17:23 |
| hannosch | j-w, ccomb: ok, so what exactly are we talking about now? | 17:23 |
| ccomb | previous tasks | 17:23 |
| hever | betabug, yes the objects are present... | 17:23 |
| hannosch | ccomb: so this one: "Make sure we have a buildbot testing the ZTK releases (and not SVN) [ccomb]" ? | 17:24 |
| hever | betabug, can I dump the object in some way? | 17:24 |
| j-w | right | 17:24 |
| ccomb | ah yes, this one | 17:24 |
| ccomb | done too | 17:24 |
| j-w | yes, marked as done | 17:24 |
| hannosch | done, awesome, +1 move on :) | 17:24 |
| j-w | next point is the comparission of the "Tres" list against the bb, z2 and grok | 17:25 |
| betabug | hever: not really, just do a getId() on it and maybe a title_or_id() and see what you get | 17:25 |
| hever | betabug, yes I did and that looks good | 17:25 |
| betabug | hever: no idea, check the code of those objects then | 17:25 |
| hannosch | j-w, ccomb: ok. I haven't actually looked at that list. but I think we can talk about ccomb's branch | 17:25 |
| j-w | where I have to admint not too much progress yet | 17:25 |
| j-w | I agree | 17:25 |
| j-w | I'll leave the task though | 17:25 |
| ccomb | sorry I've not compared bb list with tres list, but with ztk list | 17:25 |
| j-w | and we can move on too ccomb's work | 17:26 |
| hannosch | ok. leave the task, now the branch | 17:26 |
| j-w | right | 17:26 |
| hannosch | did we all read up on all the mails? | 17:26 |
| j-w | yes | 17:26 |
| ccomb | it seems there are 2 issues | 17:26 |
| ccomb | 1) keeping the dependencies close to the ztk | 17:26 |
| ccomb | it's not done now | 17:27 |
| ccomb | 2) extra.cfg | 17:27 |
| ccomb | hannosch you told that you didn't need these extra packages | 17:27 |
| ccomb | so we need to carefully isolate them, so that you don't have to use the | 17:27 |
| ccomb | m | 17:27 |
| hannosch | right, have a look at http://svn.zope.org/Zope/trunk/versions.cfg?rev=112403&view=markup | 17:28 |
| * j-w looking | 17:28 | |
| hannosch | and imagine the # ZTK stuff would be coming from an extends = ztk-versions.cfg | 17:28 |
| j-w | right | 17:28 |
| ccomb | with deps inside it? | 17:28 |
| j-w | including # ZTK dependencies and # ZODB dependencies right? | 17:28 |
| hannosch | indeed | 17:28 |
| ccomb | ok | 17:28 |
| hannosch | and maybe even "toolchain" | 17:29 |
| j-w | agreed | 17:29 |
| ccomb | ok, however in my use case I'm using most of extra libraries | 17:29 |
| ccomb | so I need a way to be sure the ztk and these libraries are tested together as well | 17:29 |
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| j-w | so, basically we should keep it like http://svn.zope.org/zopetoolkit/trunk/ztk.cfg?rev=112750&view=auto | 17:29 |
| hannosch | ccomb: sure, but Zope2's extras would be five.formlib, plone.z3cform and so on, Grok has other packages | 17:30 |
| j-w | right? | 17:30 |
| ccomb | so let's include everything, a large extra list | 17:30 |
| ccomb | otherwise, some packages will be duplicated in grok or bb or maybe z2 | 17:30 |
| hannosch | ccomb: that doesn't make sense to me. each of our communities should take care of their extras | 17:30 |
| j-w | I'm sorry I still do not understand the name "extras" here... | 17:31 |
| j-w | right | 17:31 |
| ccomb | some extras are common, such as z3c.form | 17:31 |
| j-w | the ZTK has no extras if you'd ask me | 17:31 |
| j-w | even iff bb and grok both would use z3c.form | 17:31 |
| hannosch | j-w: exactly, extra is anything outside the ZTK | 17:31 |
| j-w | they would list that in their own versions list I'd say | 17:31 |
| hannosch | it's a term we can use to talk about those other packages | 17:31 |
| ccomb | my only concern is not adding them in the ztk, but including these libs in the testing infrastructure | 17:32 |
| j-w | like so: http://svn.zope.org/groktoolkit/trunk/grok.cfg?rev=112822&view=auto | 17:32 |
| ccomb | so that we have a big picture, with all the ztk and extra libs | 17:32 |
| j-w | that's grok "extra" list | 17:32 |
| hannosch | ccomb: we sent test reports for Zope2 and BB to the tests lists | 17:32 |
| hannosch | and I think Grok too or soon | 17:32 |
| j-w | ah, that would be an idea | 17:32 |
| j-w | right | 17:32 |
| j-w | that would be a good solution I'd say | 17:33 |
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| ccomb | which ? | 17:33 |
| hannosch | we should see the breakage, but it's the responsibility of the "consumer community" to look and diagnose the problem | 17:33 |
| ccomb | yeah exactly | 17:33 |
| ccomb | we must not depend on extra tests to release | 17:33 |
| j-w | +1 | 17:33 |
| j-w | right - I think we agree here | 17:33 |
| hannosch | ok, then we don't need to put them into the ZTK section at all | 17:33 |
| hannosch | we have BBKit, GTK and Z2K for that | 17:34 |
| ccomb | in my branch, the extra.cfg is completely separated | 17:34 |
| ccomb | you can run the buildout.cfg, which build ztk + zopeapp | 17:34 |
| j-w | so the ZTk will be ztk-(verions).cfg and zopeapp(-versions).cfg | 17:34 |
| hannosch | right. I just don't want to have it at all | 17:34 |
| ccomb | yes | 17:34 |
| seppo14 | hi guys… i'm using zope on macos and have a lot of problems with "ValueError: A different object already has the same oid" when saving binary blobs. any ideas on this? (ZOPE: (2.12.5, python 2.6.1, darwin) PYTHON: 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Feb 11 2010, 00:51:29) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)]) | 17:34 |
| ccomb | but does it hurt to have this separated extra.cfg file? | 17:35 |
| seppo14 | no probs with the same scripts on a Debian system | 17:35 |
| j-w | ccomb: I'm just not sure it would be maintained | 17:35 |
| hannosch | yes. it means people will talk about it, argue about what should be in it and so on | 17:35 |
| ccomb | it can be the responsibility of the package owners? | 17:35 |
| hannosch | it won't be. as soon as it exists people will talk about it and lots of issues will come up | 17:36 |
| ccomb | someone creating a package would just have to add it in the extra so that it is tested beside others | 17:36 |
| ccomb | but it's independent from the ztk | 17:36 |
| hannosch | then it should be independent of the ztk in every way | 17:36 |
| j-w | ccomb: and as a result I'd say let's get rid of it | 17:37 |
| j-w | exactly because it is separate | 17:37 |
| hannosch | create a new project "zope community tests" - people might help in that | 17:37 |
| j-w | and grok is maintaining an "extra" list anyway, like z2 and bb | 17:37 |
| ccomb | the goal is to avoid replicating test efforts | 17:37 |
| ccomb | and to test community packages against the current ztk | 17:38 |
| hannosch | we all have slightly different version sets, environments and code, it's not completely duplicated | 17:38 |
| hannosch | and I'm not against such a project, I think it's a good idea, I just don't want to have it mixed into the ZTK | 17:38 |
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| j-w | ccomb: would you be against separating extra's into a community toolkit project? | 17:39 |
| ccomb | I see this as an additional effort | 17:39 |
| ccomb | it's already separated, excepted that the extra file is in the zopetoolkit folder | 17:40 |
| hannosch | if it's already separated that much, it shouldn't be hard to separate it completely | 17:40 |
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| ccomb | yes, it means creating yet another project | 17:41 |
| j-w | to put it differently, I think grok will only use ztk-versions.cfg and zopeapp-versions.cfg for now at least | 17:41 |
| j-w | where zopeapp usage will get smaller and smaller | 17:41 |
| hannosch | Zope2 only uses ztk-versions.cfg - I just won't make any time commitment to extras.cfg | 17:41 |
| j-w | (but not completely gone ) | 17:42 |
| ccomb | hannosch: you don't need to | 17:42 |
| hannosch | as soon as it is part of the ZTK in some way, I'll have to | 17:42 |
| ccomb | in which way | 17:42 |
| ccomb | buildouts and versions files will be independant | 17:42 |
| hannosch | read commit logs, listen to mailing list conversations complaining about failing tests | 17:43 |
| ccomb | I see this as a positive effect | 17:43 |
| hannosch | talking about process about what should be in the file and what shouldn't | 17:43 |
| ccomb | it will force people to look at why other tests are failing | 17:43 |
| hannosch | no, they will ignore all tests instead | 17:43 |
| ccomb | and if some changes in the ZTK and breaks another libs, it will be more visible | 17:43 |
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| hannosch | people only commit time to specific packages they actually use, if you have a large open list, nobody feels responsible at all anymore | 17:44 |
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| wiggy | as proof I've had the zope and plone testrunner emails send to /dev/null for a long time | 17:45 |
| hannosch | if you keep the scope small, people are willing to look after some additional packages, but lazyness and time-constraints kick in quickly | 17:45 |
| j-w | hannosch: ccomb we have decided on how to get out of a long running discussion in ealrlier mails | 17:46 |
| hannosch | I want to keep the scope of the ZTK small, so people might actually care about it | 17:46 |
| j-w | and that was to vote, amke *a* decission and see what happens | 17:46 |
| ccomb | mmmh ok let's get rid of extra.cfg | 17:46 |
| j-w | even if that would mean reverting our earlier decission | 17:46 |
| j-w | +1 | 17:46 |
| hannosch | +1 | 17:46 |
| ccomb | but the ztk definition of extra must be removed as well | 17:46 |
| hannosch | that's fine with me. the whole term is really fuzzy | 17:47 |
| ccomb | a "virtual" concept is not a concept | 17:47 |
| j-w | ccomb: what will be removed where? | 17:47 |
| hannosch | I volunteer to update the documentation | 17:47 |
| hannosch | http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/coreextra.html | 17:47 |
| hannosch | I can make a branch / patch and we can discuss it in the next meeting? | 17:48 |
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| j-w | you'd make a branch of the zopetoolkit? | 17:48 |
| j-w | or of the coreextra doc? | 17:48 |
| hannosch | eh, right. a patch is easier I'd guess | 17:48 |
| ccomb | I can update my branch to reflect this | 17:48 |
| ccomb | I need to move some packages from extra-versions.cfg to ztk-versions.cfg | 17:49 |
| j-w | ok | 17:49 |
| hannosch | ccomb: the docs live outside the /trunk /branches | 17:49 |
| hannosch | http://svn.zope.org/zopetoolkit/doc/ - there's no trunk, branch structure for those | 17:50 |
| ccomb | hannosch: ok , update it directly | 17:50 |
| ccomb | I'll update the list files | 17:50 |
| hannosch | ok, we have SVN to revert to earlier versions - should I screw up | 17:51 |
| j-w | ok | 17:51 |
| j-w | right | 17:51 |
| hannosch | ok, so ccomb updates the branch so we don't have the extras file anymore, I update the docs - some nice tasks | 17:51 |
| j-w | right | 17:51 |
| j-w | and me...? ;) | 17:51 |
| j-w | I'll keep bugging jj | 17:52 |
| hannosch | you write the meeting notes ;) | 17:52 |
| j-w | :-) | 17:52 |
| j-w | ok, any point left for today? | 17:52 |
| hannosch | there's some packages left in under-review "zope.html" and such | 17:52 |
| j-w | right right | 17:52 |
| ccomb | I had removed this in my branch | 17:53 |
| hannosch | right. I don't want them in ztk.cfg | 17:53 |
| j-w | we wanted to find a way to determine their validity in the ZTK | 17:53 |
| j-w | right | 17:53 |
| ccomb | for me, under-review means, "outside the ztk" | 17:53 |
| hannosch | +1 | 17:53 |
| ccomb | so I had put it in the extra :P | 17:53 |
| j-w | let's start with that aproach | 17:53 |
| hannosch | ok, so remove all under-review and unresolved-dependencies for now? | 17:54 |
| hannosch | http://svn.zope.org/zopetoolkit/trunk/ztk.cfg?rev=112750&view=markup | 17:54 |
| hannosch | unresolved-dependencies weren't actually tested at all | 17:54 |
| j-w | not sure about two packages | 17:54 |
| j-w | zope.testbrowser and zope.modulealias | 17:55 |
| j-w | esp. zope.testbrowser | 17:55 |
| j-w | why is it in unresolved-deps? | 17:55 |
| hannosch | right. zope.testbrowser is used in Zope2 | 17:55 |
| j-w | and can/should we fix that? | 17:55 |
| j-w | and in grok | 17:55 |
| hannosch | it had zope.app dependencies | 17:55 |
| j-w | right, ok | 17:55 |
| hannosch | j-w: you want to check if it still has such dependencies? | 17:55 |
| j-w | yes | 17:55 |
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| j-w | i'll compare the others too against grok | 17:56 |
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| hannosch | ok, looks like zope.modulealias doesn't have outside dependencies | 17:57 |
| hannosch | I'd be fine to just include it - it has been tested against the ztk all along | 17:57 |
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| hannosch | ok, j-w looks into those dependencies. schedule next meeting? | 17:58 |
| j-w | in grok we're trying to move from zope.testbrowser to zope.app.wsgi.testlayer.Browser | 17:58 |
| j-w | next week, or rather in two weeks? | 17:58 |
| j-w | what do you want? | 17:58 |
| hannosch | I'm fine with next week | 17:59 |
| hannosch | we should have something to talk about | 17:59 |
| j-w | yes | 17:59 |
| j-w | let's try that | 17:59 |
| j-w | ccomb: agreed? | 17:59 |
| ccomb | sorry, back | 17:59 |
| ccomb | next week I'm not available | 18:00 |
| j-w | in two weeks then? | 18:00 |
| ccomb | mmmh | 18:00 |
| ccomb | for june maybe we should doodle, because I'm doing some trainings | 18:00 |
| * Charlie_X rings the bell | 18:01 | |
| ccomb | or we should have the meeting in the evening | 18:01 |
| hannosch | ok, ccomb you create a doodle? | 18:01 |
| j-w | evening would be fine with me | 18:01 |
| * hannosch is flexible | 18:01 | |
| j-w | evening of 16th? | 18:01 |
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| j-w | 15th I mean | 18:01 |
| j-w | say around 20:00? | 18:02 |
| Charlie_X | I believe this room is booked! | 18:02 |
| ccomb | 15th evening ok | 18:02 |
| j-w | (kids put to bed etc. ;) | 18:02 |
| hannosch | +1 on 15th evening | 18:02 |
| j-w | ok! | 18:02 |
| j-w | thanks guys! | 18:02 |
| hannosch | thanks much! | 18:02 |
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| j-w | Charlie_X: we ate the cookies again | 18:02 |
| * ccomb cleans up the room and gets out | 18:02 | |
| agroszer | hannosch, you got the ball regarding the win64 stuff? | 18:03 |
| j-w | the whiteboard markers are empty btw | 18:03 |
| * hannosch gets new coffee and prepares for next meegin | 18:03 | |
| * j-w lurks along | 18:03 | |
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| hannosch | agroszer: not really. it would be best if you could talk to janjaap directly | 18:03 |
| j-w | agroszer: what I will do is together with janjaap see about a win64 *without* compiler to test the ZTK | 18:04 |
| j-w | and have that mail test reports as well | 18:04 |
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| j-w | does that make sense/help? | 18:04 |
| hannosch | Charlie_X: you need to be more aggressive to get us out ;) | 18:04 |
| Charlie_X | God, it's like the bloody House of Commons here! Order, order! I will have order! | 18:04 |
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| Charlie_X | Theuni1: has asked me to convene again. | 18:05 |
| agroszer | j-w, sure, we're (I) aiming to do binary egg building for win32+win64 and buildbots for the same | 18:05 |
| j-w | right | 18:05 |
| agroszer | j-w, let's see whether the foundation pays for the server | 18:05 |
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| agroszer | j-w, that's the turning point | 18:06 |
| j-w | agroszer: right, ok, even we need more coordination let's take that up by mail, ok? | 18:06 |
| agroszer | j-w, sure | 18:06 |
| agroszer | Charlie_X, first point? | 18:06 |
| Charlie_X | According to the agenda it's related to documentation. Something that Theuni1 wanted to discuss with TresEquis. | 18:07 |
| agroszer | j-w, we should know more on the 3rd | 18:07 |
| Charlie_X | TresEquis: hereß | 18:07 |
| Charlie_X | hm, TresEquis and Theuni1 both not around. I must admit I don't really understand the item. | 18:08 |
| agroszer | Charlie_X, I guess: | 18:09 |
| Charlie_X | What is "floating documentation"? | 18:09 |
| agroszer | there's a lot of doc around, here and there | 18:09 |
| agroszer | that means you have to have plenty of luck to find something | 18:09 |
| Charlie_X | That's true. | 18:10 |
| hannosch | stuff hidden in packages, in doctests, some on PyPi pages | 18:10 |
| wiggy | almost all of it hard to read | 18:10 |
| wiggy | and the zope.org wiki | 18:10 |
| agroszer | let's first gather stuff | 18:10 |
| agroszer | if we want to rewrite it at the same time, it's never gonna finish | 18:10 |
| TresEquis | Charlie_X: oops, I'm here | 18:11 |
| hannosch | I think Sphinx as a tool and docs.zope.org as a location would work really well | 18:11 |
| Charlie_X | Cool, TresEquis, you have the floor. | 18:11 |
| TresEquis | the idea was to move the various wiki docs and others in places like www.zope.org to Sphinx | 18:11 |
| agroszer | yes please! | 18:12 |
| Charlie_X | +lots on that. | 18:12 |
| Charlie_X | "How" is probably the tricky part. Suggestions? | 18:12 |
| TresEquis | this is in addition to moving to a pattern where our main packages use Sphinx docs by default, which get linked into docs.zope.org | 18:12 |
| TresEquis | incrementally, I think | 18:12 |
| TresEquis | folks need to identify documentation resources which are "valuable", and then work with their current owners to get them moved | 18:13 |
| Charlie_X | Can we do any filtering or flagging of stuff that needs migrating? | 18:13 |
| TresEquis | leaving behind links / redirects to the new Sphinx-based URLs | 18:13 |
| Charlie_X | Maybe a special tag for launchpad? | 18:13 |
| TresEquis | I think most of the useful docs are out in the wild, not in SVN | 18:14 |
| TresEquis | but moving a package forward on that front is useful, too | 18:14 |
| Charlie_X | And, as someone who hasn't got a clue about this, an introduction? | 18:14 |
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| TresEquis | on writing the docs? | 18:15 |
| hannosch | where would this go? into a new subversion location to act as a general docs section? something like http://docs.zope.org/developer/ ? | 18:15 |
| Charlie_X | Possibly, yes. | 18:15 |
| TresEquis | http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ is pretty good for Sphinx docs | 18:15 |
| TresEquis | The existing docs.zope.org stuff from SVN has buildouts which install Sphinx for you | 18:16 |
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| TresEquis | likely we could start a wiki page on obsoleting wiki ;) | 18:17 |
| TresEquis | and gather links of candidate docs there | 18:17 |
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| hannosch | sounds liks TresEquis wants to lead this effort ;) | 18:18 |
| TresEquis | heh | 18:18 |
| Charlie_X | Okay. So this is would start as a wiki to ReST migration? Surely that could be automated? | 18:19 |
| TresEquis | It isn't worth automating | 18:19 |
| TresEquis | human selection / editing / gardening is part of the point | 18:19 |
| TresEquis | winnowing out cruft, etc | 18:19 |
| TresEquis | we want quality, not quantity | 18:20 |
| Charlie_X | ah, the difficult stuff. | 18:20 |
| hannosch | yep, I remember the Zope2 book conversion, just having to manually go over things was quite good - you spotted lots of outdated stuff | 18:20 |
| TresEquis | yup | 18:20 |
| TresEquis | I think we can let this ride until next time, if we have another topic | 18:20 |
| Charlie_X | Sigh, I had been hoping my twitterbot would be able to help. ;-) It's not well-known for quality. | 18:21 |
| Charlie_X | We do have another topic - releases. | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | one metric for unreleased changes is to review 'fixcommitted' bugs on LP | 18:22 |
| hannosch | is there a concrete problem with the current release practice? | 18:22 |
| TresEquis | and target them to milestones | 18:22 |
| TresEquis | I think there is a worry that we have stuff falling through the cracks | 18:22 |
| TresEquis | e.g., after a bugday | 18:22 |
| hannosch | ok, so this is about not releasing fixes found in SVN | 18:23 |
| Charlie_X | hannosch: what is the current release practice? I've seen questions on it but nobody point to a URL | 18:23 |
| hannosch | it's wild-west - anyone who cares to ask gets release privileges and uploads new releases | 18:24 |
| Charlie_X | Well, there's something very wrong with that. | 18:24 |
| hannosch | we agreed on rules for minor / major version number changes and those seem to be followed | 18:24 |
| TresEquis | Charlie_X: process for ZTK packages is http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/releasing-software.html | 18:24 |
| Charlie_X | ta, TresEquis | 18:24 |
| agroszer | or zest.releaser seems to do the job too | 18:25 |
| hannosch | it's a bit frightening and uncoordinated, but it seems to work out quite nicely so far | 18:25 |
| TresEquis | we average fewer brown bags than most projects, with a *lot* more releases | 18:25 |
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| agroszer | in fact, what about including zest.releaser in the ZTK packages buildouts? | 18:25 |
| hannosch | agroszer: it's just one tool, there's others like jarn.mkrelease or just doing it manual | 18:26 |
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| Charlie_X | So, maybe after every bug day we need a release day? | 18:28 |
| hannosch | I think for build helper tools "use the latest" generally works quite well. there's no real need to pin its version | 18:28 |
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| hannosch | if it's about bug days, then using the "fix committed" approach should work quite nicely | 18:28 |
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| TresEquis | as long as a release-enabled volunteer checks for that status | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | on the packages she maintains | 18:29 |
| agroszer | umm, some bot would be nice | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: I don't think so | 18:29 |
| Charlie_X | The bugchecker script can probably already do this. | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | I think humans make choices to defer releases | 18:30 |
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| agroszer | TresEquis, don't run it that often | 18:30 |
| TresEquis | and shouldn't be nagged by a bot | 18:30 |
| TresEquis | ok | 18:30 |
| agroszer | let's say once a week | 18:30 |
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| TresEquis | Charlie_X: the bugchecker script can definitely do that | 18:30 |
| hannosch | bug checker script sounds like a good fit, to generate a list of "unreleased changes" - it should be seen as a failure, just something you can get a list of | 18:31 |
| agroszer | sounds like a consent on the subject | 18:31 |
| TresEquis | $ bin/check-bugs -s "Fix Committed" -g zopetoolkit | 18:31 |
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| TresEquis | shows a couple in zope.copypastemove | 18:32 |
| Charlie_X | And it now has "-m" to send e-mails for added awesomeness | 18:32 |
| TresEquis | plus one each in zope.testbrowser and zope.testrunner | 18:32 |
| agroszer | add it to a crontab and we're done | 18:33 |
| TresEquis | we're past time now | 18:33 |
| TresEquis | sorry for being tardy | 18:33 |
| Charlie_X | It's okay the room was full of another group at the start anyway. | 18:34 |
| Charlie_X | How did your tutorial go at the Plone shindig? | 18:34 |
| agroszer | the previous guys tend to do overtime ;-) | 18:34 |
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| Charlie_X | Okay. Meeting's over everyone. I'll post the summary later. hannosch can we expect an update on the ZTK? | 18:36 |
| hannosch | Charlie_X: not next week, we have our next meeting in two weeks | 18:36 |
| hannosch | you'll see meeting notes pop-up on zope-dev, so you see our discussion. but nothing really to discuss in the wider group | 18:37 |
| Charlie_X | zope-dev was what I was thinking of. Thanks | 18:37 |
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| TresEquis | agroszer: I don't think the foundation board has seen a concrete proposal for the build infrastructure stuff yet | 18:52 |
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| sim_sim | Hi all. In zope.testing.testrunner it seems that the layer_teardown hook is not called whereas the layer_setup is . Am I missing something ? | 18:57 |
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| TresEquis | sim_sim: there is a bug about teardown not being called in tests which fork a subprocess | 18:59 |
| TresEquis | https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope.testrunner/+bug/579019 | 18:59 |
| mup | Bug #579019: Layer tearDown isn't called when running more processes <zope.testing:Fix Released by sidnei> <zope.testrunner:Fix Committed by sidnei> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/579019> | 18:59 |
| sim_sim | TresEquis, yeah I just saw that, but well I have only one process I think | 19:00 |
| sim_sim | Besides I got layers | 19:00 |
| TresEquis | which is fixcommitted -- you could try using the zope.testrunner trunk | 19:00 |
| sim_sim | TresEquis, Thanks a lot for being so reactive btw :) | 19:01 |
| TresEquis | y w | 19:02 |
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| TresEquis | sim_sim: I'm afraid I don't know any more than that | 19:03 |
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| sim_sim | TresEquis, I have the '3.9.3dev' version, do you think this bug may apply to me ? | 19:04 |
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| sim_sim | I think yes as the report says : "Looking at the source of zope.testing (3.8.7)," | 19:05 |
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| sim_sim | 3.9.5 (2010-05-19) | 19:09 |
| sim_sim | * LP #579019: When layers were run in parallel, their tearDown was not called. Additionally, the first layer which was run in the main thread did not have it's tearDown called either. | 19:09 |
| mup | Bug #579019: Layer tearDown isn't called when running more processes <zope.testing:Fix Released by sidnei> <zope.testrunner:Fix Committed by sidnei> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/579019> | 19:09 |
| sim_sim | all right, that apply to me | 19:09 |
| sim_sim | sorry for spamming. | 19:09 |
| sim_sim | First layer in the main thread. | 19:09 |
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| sim_sim | TresEquis, Sorry to bother, is there a mercurial repo of zope.testing somewhere ? | 19:24 |
| agroszer | TresEquis, the proposal is sitting on Theuni1's desk | 19:33 |
| TresEquis | sim_sim: not mercurial | 19:33 |
| TresEquis | but bzr is available | 19:33 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis, agroszer: i've got it, i'll have it ready for tomorrow's meeting | 19:33 |
| sim_sim | okay, thanks | 19:33 |
| TresEquis | See https://code.launchpad.net/zope.testing | 19:34 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: thanks | 19:34 |
| agroszer | when is the meeting scheduled? | 19:34 |
| agroszer | TresEquis, when is the meeting scheduled tomorrow? | 19:35 |
| TresEquis | 12:30 UTC | 19:36 |
| agroszer | thx | 19:36 |
| TresEquis | on #zope-foundation | 19:36 |
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| agroszer | Theuni1, just in case Stephan forgets, you mind nominating me as a foundation member? | 19:38 |
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| Theuni1 | sure | 19:45 |
| agroszer | thx | 19:46 |
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| MJ | hole-digging time | 20:10 |
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| MJ | (converting some garden into veg plots) | 20:10 |
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| benji | MJ: I think there's an echo in here. | 20:52 |
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| CIA-94 | jim * r112889 /ZODB/branches/jim-simulation: Try to fix zeo cache simulation | 21:00 |
| CIA-94 | jim jim-simulation * r112890 ZODB/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): checkpoint | 21:00 |
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| CIA-94 | jim jim-simulation * r112891 ZODB/src/ZEO/scripts/cache_trace_simulation.py: Add interval reporting. The interval needs to be configurable. | 21:45 |
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