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| yota | my god, current translation is *sigh* | 01:18 |
|---|---|---|
| mexiKON | hey yota | 01:18 |
| yota | hi philikon aka mexiKON :) | 01:19 |
| mexiKON | hi :) | 01:19 |
| yota | why are the files filled with carriage return and tab ? | 01:24 |
| yota | po files | 01:24 |
| mexiKON | because that's how the message strings are extracted from the templates | 01:27 |
| mexiKON | probably the templates should be cleaned up | 01:27 |
| yota | Ok, I translate w/o return | 01:28 |
| mexiKON | yeah, in translations you can ignore the whitespace | 01:28 |
| yota | It's a pain to use Lauchpad, viva Kbabel :) | 01:29 |
| mexiKON | yeah | 01:30 |
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| yota | I finish first complete draft of translations and I will send on zope3-dev a list of words to add in dictionary | 01:34 |
| mexiKON | good idea | 01:35 |
| yota | do you think that it is necessary to add   in the translation? | 01:41 |
| yota | I have same problem with plone | 01:41 |
| yota | in french, we add space before punctuation like "?" or "!" | 01:41 |
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| mexiKON | no, shouldn't be necessary | 01:44 |
| yota | oki | 01:46 |
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| srichter | benji_york: I just found njsmodule, which can run JS inside Python. I wonder whether this would be desirable to integrate in testbrowser. | 16:58 |
| srichter | sooner or later we need to deal with Javascript | 16:58 |
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| srichter | actually http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/python-spidermonkey/ is developed by the mechanize guys as well | 17:02 |
| benji_york | LOL! I just turned around from a conversation with Gary about integrating JJL's spidermonkey/python integration | 17:03 |
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| srichter | benji_york: ha ha | 17:03 |
| benji_york | we somewhat came to the conclusion that it might be nice, but it wouldn't really buy us much | 17:04 |
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| benji_york | what advantages do you see? | 17:04 |
| srichter | benji_york: well, it buys us much, if JS does a lot of the work, such as creating HTML DOM entries | 17:04 |
| benji_york | for testing of pages that are self-modifying? | 17:05 |
| srichter | I would also like to test whether my buttons do the right thing, but then the test browser would need to keep track of the DOM | 17:05 |
| srichter | of the site | 17:05 |
| srichter | yeah, for example | 17:05 |
| benji_york | that's really an example of a "browser test". That's what Selenium is good at. | 17:06 |
| srichter | I guess you guys just use Selenium for this, but I cannot stand tests I have to run in the browser | 17:06 |
| benji_york | we can't either :) | 17:06 |
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| benji_york | that's why we set them up so they can be run from the command line and then automated them with buildbot | 17:06 |
| srichter | I see, but it is not a platform-independent solution | 17:07 |
| benji_york | it runs on IE, Firefox, and Safari on Linux, Windows, and Mac | 17:08 |
| benji_york | (not respectively) :) | 17:08 |
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| srichter | but it cannot run as part of my test suite :-) | 17:08 |
| wiggy | does zope3 allow a @ in ids? | 17:09 |
| srichter | so I have no immediate feedback whether my changes in template X broke something in the app | 17:09 |
| srichter | wiggy: I am not sure, but it should | 17:09 |
| benji_york | srichter, why not? we type "bin/test" to run the unit and functional tests, then type "bin/selenium" to run the selenium tests, at the end it prints out how many tests ran/passed/failed | 17:09 |
| srichter | I see, but you have to have several browsers installed, right? | 17:10 |
| srichter | I dunno, I prefer writing tests in Python | 17:11 |
| srichter | for example, I have this switch that shows and hides menu options (actually the Developer Tools menu from the proposal) | 17:11 |
| srichter | I would love to tell in my ftest to be able to say: To show the tools, click | 17:12 |
| srichter | >>> browser.click(name="menuswitch") | 17:12 |
| benji_york | srichter, re: show/hide switch. We have the same kind of thing in our last project, but I think that's not really a case for functional tests. If you want to make sure it works, you want to make sure it works in the browser(s) you inend to support. That means you really need browser tests, not functional tests. | 17:17 |
| srichter | that's true too of course | 17:18 |
| benji_york | srichter, I agree that >>> browser.click(name="menuswitch") would be ideal, but I don't think I buys us enough to spend the effort resurecting JJL's spidermonkey code | 17:19 |
| benji_york | s/I buys/it buys/ | 17:19 |
| srichter | yeah, the cost is far too high right now, unfortunately | 17:20 |
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| benji_york | also, python-spidermonkey doesn't include the Mozilla DOM, so we'd have to come up with a reasonable emulation thereof :( | 17:21 |
| srichter | :-( | 17:21 |
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| GaryPoster | srichter: hey. http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/440 might be a 3.1 issue. Definitely 3.1.1, I'd say. | 21:43 |
| srichter | feel free to fix it; I have not cut RC2 yet | 21:44 |
| srichter | I think I will wait a little bt longer with RC2, since bug reports from us still trickle in | 21:45 |
| GaryPoster | OK, cool. Fred will probably do it as soon as he can. | 21:45 |
| srichter | great | 21:46 |
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| philiKON | GaryPoster, as long as you're sitting down together with fred, could you have him look at 436? | 22:16 |
| GaryPoster | philiKON: mentioned :-) | 22:18 |
| philiKON | thanks :) | 22:18 |
| GaryPoster | he says he can't right now, but maybe tomorrow | 22:19 |
| philiKON | ok | 22:19 |
| philiKON | it includes a patch | 22:19 |
| philiKON | i just need a "go" or "no go" | 22:19 |
| philiKON | just like it to be in rc2 | 22:19 |
| philiKON | or the final, for that matter | 22:19 |
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| GaryPoster | OK, relayed and confirmed receipt. :-) | 22:21 |
| philiKON | thx | 22:21 |
| srichter | I will delay RC2 a till later this week | 22:23 |
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| GaryPoster | srichter: The zcml fix for the _protections stuff is too much of a feature, I suppose. I know of a hack that would at least fix the functional test problem. Would you like me to put the hack in that fixes the problem, along with a comment saying that it is destined to disappear, so that 3.1 at least isn't broken in this way? It isn't the 'right' way to fix it--the zcml is right IMO--but RC2 isn't the time to include new zcml, I guess. | 22:36 |
| srichter | hack ok | 22:37 |
| GaryPoster | ok, cool | 22:37 |
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| philiKON | srichter, can i sneak in the translations in between rc2 and final, or should we wait for a 3.1.1 for translations? | 23:15 |
| GaryPoster | srichter: I'm not gonna put the security hack in after all. Other code has already compensated, and it's too gross. We'll just deal with it for 3.2. | 23:15 |
| srichter | philiKON: translations; preferably not, but it would be ok | 23:16 |
| philiKON | ok | 23:16 |
| philiKON | i can understand | 23:16 |
| philiKON | ideally a rc is released unchanged as final | 23:16 |
| srichter | right | 23:16 |
| philiKON | if we can agree on making a 3.1.1 soon | 23:16 |
| philiKON | in, say, a month or so | 23:16 |
| srichter | we can make it any time | 23:16 |
| srichter | how far along are the translations? | 23:16 |
| philiKON | https://launchpad.net/products/zope/+series/zope3.1/+pots/zope | 23:17 |
| philiKON | this is of course the current status in launchpad | 23:17 |
| philiKON | a lot of people are translating off line and jus tupload the pos later | 23:17 |
| srichter | yeah | 23:17 |
| philiKON | we have 15 languages in progress already | 23:18 |
| philiKON | meaning, devoted people for 15 languages | 23:18 |
| srichter | yeah | 23:18 |
| philiKON | srichter, re: cutting a release any time | 23:23 |
| philiKON | i realize that from a release management point of view, minor releases can be cut any time | 23:23 |
| philiKON | i'm just saying that we might want to fix a date in the roadmap | 23:23 |
| philiKON | like andreas does for zope 2.8.x releases | 23:23 |
| philiKON | that way i can also motivate translators to get done | 23:23 |
| srichter | I rather keep that open | 23:23 |
| srichter | I will release minor releases as bugs get fixed or translations come in | 23:24 |
| philiKON | hmm. ok | 23:24 |
| philiKON | i hope that people will actually maintain 3.1 branch | 23:24 |
| philiKON | otherwise 3.1.1 will land together with 3.2 or so | 23:24 |
| philiKON | (just like x3.0.1 happened) | 23:24 |
| srichter | well, ST switches to the 3.1 branch | 23:24 |
| philiKON | cool | 23:25 |
| srichter | I found a lot of issues with the new apidoc API and will fix those bugs as I am working on docs | 23:25 |
| philiKON | i hope that 3.1 will enter debian testing at some point | 23:25 |
| wiggy | it will | 23:29 |
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| dman13 | I think a planned and documented release date for 3.1.1 will help encourage people to maintain the 3.1 branch | 23:35 |
| dman13 | I know that I never actually expected a 3.0.1 release and didn't think the 3.0 branch mattered after a while when it seemed that 3.1 would be "soon" (that was a while ago) | 23:36 |
| srichter | I am not producing releases that do not have any changes | 23:38 |
| dman13 | that makes sense | 23:38 |
| dman13 | I think the branch may be more likely to see changes and be maintained if a target is available to aim at | 23:39 |
| dman13 | if 3.2 is released in 3 months then maybe the 3.1 branch won't be needed after all | 23:39 |
| dman13 | so maybe making the release date contingent upon having some changes? | 23:40 |
| srichter | well, as said before ST is set on 3.1 for now at least | 23:40 |
| dman13 | I don't know, but these are some thoughts. | 23:40 |
| srichter | and I have already noticed a bunch of bugs that I will fix | 23:40 |
| dman13 | say, I tried to figure out how to comment on the DeveloperMode proposal the other day but I didn't see how to do it | 23:41 |
| srichter | dman13: of course your psychological argument is valid and true for many people | 23:42 |
| srichter | dman13: I think you have to become a power user | 23:42 |
| dman13 | the wiki had no "comment" like (like z3 does) and the "help" was a extremely vague on what email address to send to | 23:42 |
| dman13 | oh, ok | 23:42 |
| dman13 | well, +1 on the idea from me and I don't have any strong opinions on ZCML vs ZConfig | 23:42 |
| srichter | but you should have still seen the comment box on the bottom I think | 23:42 |
| srichter | GaryPoster: benji_york: can any of you give dman13 edit rights? | 23:43 |
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| dman13 | are anonymous users supposed to be able to see comments? | 23:44 |
| dman13 | sometime last week I viewed the page from work, and I could read all the comments | 23:44 |
| GaryPoster | dman13: yes, AFAIK. | 23:44 |
| dman13 | at home over the weekend I couldn't get the site to recognize that I was logged in | 23:44 |
| srichter | yeah, anyone can read everything | 23:44 |
| dman13 | only the login page would show that I was logged in | 23:44 |
| dman13 | now my work machine is doing the same thing | 23:44 |
| srichter | dman13: I removed all the comments and integrated their content into the proposal | 23:45 |
| dman13 | ah, ok, that explains why I can't see them anymore | 23:45 |
| dman13 | the header still lacks indication that I am logged in | 23:45 |
| srichter | mmh, then you are not logged in :-) | 23:45 |
| dman13 | maybe I just didn't notice that last week and that's why I couldn't comment? | 23:45 |
| GaryPoster | srichter, dman13: I'll see if I can figure out what permissions derrick to give in a bit. | 23:45 |
| GaryPoster | and no, the logged/not logged stuff is terribly hosed. | 23:46 |
| dman13 | how fun | 23:46 |
| dman13 | well, at least it's not my fault ;-) | 23:46 |
| dman13 | I guess | 23:46 |
| GaryPoster | well I *was* going to blame you ;-) No, last I heard it was a squid configuration problem. "hard" reload the page to see what the story really is. | 23:47 |
| dman13 | I hit the toolbar button a few times and also pressed "enter" in the address bar. No change. I removed the local proxy from my browser's configuration and still no change. When I click the "log in" link, that page's header shows that I am logged in, just not the wiki page's view. | 23:49 |
| dman13 | I'm using Firefox, BTW. (1.0.4 I think, but maybe 1.0.6) | 23:50 |
| GaryPoster | eek | 23:50 |
| dman13 | I could be a cache problem ... since the one page works and the other doesn't. I don't know which cache or if I can do anything about it. | 23:51 |
| dman13 | s/^I/It/ | 23:52 |
| dman13 | :-) | 23:52 |
| philiKON | srichter, of course, you don't have to make a release when there's no change | 23:55 |
| philiKON | srichter, but setting a fixed date for a release will encourage people to get fixes done before that | 23:55 |
| philiKON | e.g. the translations | 23:55 |
| philiKON | and it actually sends out a positive message that this branch is maintained | 23:56 |
| philiKON | actively | 23:57 |
| philiKON | it seems to work well for andreas | 23:57 |
| srichter | ok | 23:57 |
| srichter | choose a date | 23:57 |
| dman13 | next friday ;-) | 23:57 |
| philiKON | (date of 3.1.0 release + 1 month) | 23:57 |
| philiKON | err, i meant | 23:57 |
| philiKON | (date of 3.1.0 release_ + 1 month | 23:57 |
| philiKON | (date of 3.1.0 release) + 1 month | 23:57 |
| philiKON | argh | 23:57 |
| srichter | ok | 23:57 |
| philiKON | now it's right :) | 23:57 |
| philiKON | ok, i'm outta here | 23:58 |
| philiKON | have a good night | 23:58 |
| dman13 | that sounds reasonable to me | 23:58 |
| dman13 | especially for the translations to be finished | 23:59 |
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