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| kickingvegas | hello! | 01:15 |
|---|---|---|
| kickingvegas | trying to figure how to use pyskel - only get tracebacks - don't understand the namespace path | 01:17 |
| projekt01 | hi, what do you mean by pyskel and namespace path? | 01:19 |
| projekt01 | what are you using, linux or windows, trunk or release? | 01:19 |
| kickingvegas | okay suppose I'm in the directory that I'm writing the package that has interfaces.py | 01:20 |
| kickingvegas | do I then run pyskel interfaces ? | 01:20 |
| projekt01 | ok, you are writing a package? | 01:20 |
| kickingvegas | using a separate build of python and zope3 on os x | 01:20 |
| kickingvegas | yeah, or really trying to understand how a package works | 01:21 |
| projekt01 | does zope start without your own code? | 01:21 |
| kickingvegas | getting caught up on the documentation given by the zope3 developer's book (sorry srichter) | 01:21 |
| kickingvegas | yes | 01:21 |
| projekt01 | but z3 don't start with your own package? | 01:22 |
| kickingvegas | but I understand that pyskel will read the interfaces module and then construct some template files | 01:22 |
| kickingvegas | not at the point where I want z3 to use the package - still in the writing from scratch phase | 01:23 |
| kickingvegas | or is pyskel.py still a work in progress? | 01:24 |
| projekt01 | ok, and now you would try to make your package available, means you like to know what you have to do with configure.zcml | 01:24 |
| kickingvegas | well kinda, sorta - I'm really trying to understand how a product works from scratch | 01:25 |
| projekt01 | Ok I see, another question first, what do you mean with pyskel? Do yo mean the zopeskel folder? | 01:25 |
| kickingvegas | trying to follow to zope3 developer's book example. it kind of loses me when it mentions pyskel | 01:26 |
| projekt01 | Oooh, do you have the source code in front of you? | 01:26 |
| kickingvegas | yeah | 01:27 |
| projekt01 | Should I explain a sample configuration of a package? | 01:27 |
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| kickingvegas | if you have the time I'd _really_ appreciate it | 01:28 |
| projekt01 | Ok, let's go to the zope.app.file package | 01:28 |
| projekt01 | Then open the configure.zcml | 01:28 |
| projekt01 | In the configure.zcml you see different registration directive for register a file as a content type. | 01:29 |
| kickingvegas | is it in $ZOPEHOME/zopeskel? | 01:29 |
| projekt01 | no it's in the src folder or at the top level. | 01:30 |
| projekt01 | src.zope.app.file | 01:30 |
| projekt01 | or <python home>zope.app.file | 01:31 |
| projekt01 | did you see it? | 01:31 |
| kickingvegas | okay, let's roll back - I don't know where you're pointing at | 01:31 |
| kickingvegas | I'm in the build directory where I untarred the zope3 source | 01:31 |
| projekt01 | Ok, do you see a folder called src? | 01:32 |
| kickingvegas | no | 01:32 |
| projekt01 | or a folder called zope? | 01:32 |
| kickingvegas | I see Zope | 01:32 |
| projekt01 | what's in the folder Zope? | 01:32 |
| kickingvegas | DEPENDENCIES.cfgSETUP.cfgtest.py* | 01:33 |
| kickingvegas | LICENSES.txtZopePublicLicense.txtzopeskel/ | 01:33 |
| kickingvegas | PUBLICATION.cfgbin/zopetest* | 01:33 |
| kickingvegas | README.txtdoc/ | 01:33 |
| kickingvegas | my bad, but you get the gist | 01:33 |
| projekt01 | nothing more? | 01:33 |
| kickingvegas | no | 01:33 |
| projekt01 | I don't know mac well enough. Do you know where the python is installed? | 01:34 |
| projekt01 | can you go to the python installation home folder? | 01:34 |
| kickingvegas | yeah, in $HOME/bin | 01:34 |
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| projekt01 | is there a script called mkzopeinstance? | 01:35 |
| projekt01 | Oh, I see there is a bin folder in your Zope folder. Go to this Zope/bin folder. | 01:36 |
| projekt01 | There should be a mkzopeinstance script | 01:37 |
| kickingvegas | yes in the install directory of Zope | 01:37 |
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| projekt01 | Ok, you have to make a zope instance with this script | 01:37 |
| kickingvegas | I used that to make a zope instance | 01:38 |
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| * projekt01 really hates the zope install builder, BitRock whould really solve all this problems | 01:38 | |
| kickingvegas | $HOME/zope/ is where the zope instance lives | 01:38 |
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| projekt01 | Ok, there should be a folder called src or zope | 01:39 |
| kickingvegas | in the zope instance? | 01:39 |
| projekt01 | yes | 01:39 |
| kickingvegas | all I see is /bin /etc /lib /log /var | 01:40 |
| projekt01 | or in the python home I really don't know where this zope installer put the scripts | 01:40 |
| projekt01 | Then the libraries are located in the python home like normal python 3rd party packages | 01:41 |
| kickingvegas | okay I think I may have found it - | 01:41 |
| projekt01 | Ok, go to the zope.app.file package | 01:42 |
| kickingvegas | in the install Zope-3.1.0 directory; not the instance directory | 01:42 |
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| projekt01 | Yes | 01:42 |
| projekt01 | You will share this packages with other instances | 01:42 |
| projekt01 | other/all | 01:43 |
| kickingvegas | okay | 01:43 |
| Varg__ | where can I find documentation about properly deleteing Zope3 objects? I have found nothing in Stephan's/Phillip's books ... | 01:43 |
| projekt01 | did you see zope.app.file? | 01:43 |
| kickingvegas | yes, in there now | 01:44 |
| kickingvegas | zope/app/file.py | 01:44 |
| projekt01 | Varg__, there is a delete button in the ZMI which uses __delitem__ of IContainer | 01:44 |
| projekt01 | kickingvegas, open the configure.zcml | 01:45 |
| kickingvegas | okay | 01:45 |
| projekt01 | This is the file where the content type File is registered | 01:45 |
| kickingvegas | got it open | 01:45 |
| Varg__ | projekt01, thanks - I know the button, didn't know how to do the same with an autogenerated link though :) | 01:45 |
| projekt01 | open the file configure.zcml in the browser package (zope.app.file.browser) | 01:46 |
| projekt01 | Varg__, see the contents.py and content.pt in the package zope.app.container.browser | 01:46 |
| projekt01 | kickingvegas, the configure.zcml located in the browser package is the file where all views get registered for the content type File | 01:47 |
| projekt01 | Did you see it? | 01:48 |
| kickingvegas | yep, seeing it | 01:48 |
| projekt01 | Ok, there are two other files called Setup.cfg and file-configure.zcml | 01:49 |
| projekt01 | The SETUP.cfg will put the file-configure.zcml to the package-includes folder if you call setup.py | 01:49 |
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| projekt01 | Do you see the package zopeskel/etc/package-includes | 01:50 |
| kickingvegas | okay see Setup.cfg; don't see file-configure.zcml | 01:50 |
| kickingvegas | only configure.zcml | 01:51 |
| projekt01 | Ok, perhaps it's different on a instance, go to the zopeskel/etc/package-includes | 01:51 |
| projekt01 | There you can find the file-configure.zcml | 01:51 |
| projekt01 | On the trunk this file is located in the zope.app.file package and will be copied to the package-includes folder during the setup | 01:52 |
| projekt01 | Did you find the package-includes folder? | 01:52 |
| kickingvegas | I think it's all installed in zopeskel/etc/package-includes | 01:52 |
| projekt01 | Yes, there are all configuration (includer) files located | 01:53 |
| projekt01 | Did you get the concept? | 01:53 |
| Varg__ | projekt01: holy crap, that's a bit of a hard nut to crack for Step 2 of the Zope3 Developers manual ... :-) | 01:54 |
| projekt01 | the files located in the package-includes folder describe which package configuration.zcml file is loaded | 01:55 |
| projekt01 | Yes, the books and manuals are really outdated in this part | 01:55 |
| projekt01 | But you got it? | 01:56 |
| kickingvegas | yeah, understand that installing the appropriate *configure.zcml file in package-includes "registers'" a package with zope | 01:56 |
| projekt01 | yes, register means loading the right configure.zcml or meta.zcml of a package | 01:56 |
| Varg__ | projekt01: I hope I'll be able to figure it out tomorrow ... it's a bit late by now :) Anyhow, deleting things seems to be a substantially more difficult task than adding them ... | 01:57 |
| projekt01 | That's all, every other part like develop the package etc. can be done in the package itself | 01:57 |
| kickingvegas | Varg__: are you trying to delete the translate thingy? If so I couldn't either - zope3 gave me a traceback message | 01:58 |
| projekt01 | Varg__, not really you can call folder.__delitem__(nameOfTheItem) | 01:59 |
| Varg__ | kickingvegas, nope, I'm just working my way through the messageboard application, and the second chapter suggests adding "Add","Edit" and "Delete" Links ... the first two were no problem :) | 01:59 |
| kickingvegas | ahh. | 01:59 |
| projekt01 | I'm not sure if the message board is fully working, ask srichter if there are some problems or parts where are not up-to-date | 02:00 |
| projekt01 | There is also a buddydemo where is working in the trunk perhaps it's also in the release. | 02:01 |
| Varg__ | projekt01: soooo, what I'd do is add a "delete" view which calls a "delete" method, which looks up the parent container, then calls the __delitem__ method of the parent and then redirects the browser somewhere else? | 02:01 |
| Varg__ | Oh, or I'll just look at the buddy demo :) | 02:02 |
| projekt01 | I suggest to read the book to the end and then make some code samples, then you get the big pictures first before you get frustrated ;-) | 02:02 |
| Varg__ | projekt01: 'k, I'll drop srichter a message to take that exercise out of chapter 2 for didactic reasons then ;-P | 02:03 |
| projekt01 | Reading and coding at the same time is a bit to much since a lot of the API changed. | 02:05 |
| kickingvegas | yes on dropping broken example code | 02:05 |
| projekt01 | You never know if the book is wrong or your coding. | 02:05 |
| Varg__ | projekt01: true ... I read through Phillip's book first, and wanted to get my hands dirty though ... there's a bunch of stuff in there that needs some hands-on experience in order to grasp it | 02:06 |
| kickingvegas | as a side note this is what I find the most frustrating aspect of using Zope - tons of misleading information out there | 02:06 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 02:06 |
| Varg__ | kickingvegas: *nodnods* | 02:06 |
| projekt01 | right, I agree | 02:06 |
| projekt01 | Ok, write a mail to the list and ask for a supported sample | 02:07 |
| Varg__ | will do! thanks for the hints and help - I'm off to bed! | 02:07 |
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| kickingvegas | read elsewhere from faassen about having a lower learning curve for Zope3; I'm totally on the same page has him | 02:08 |
| projekt01 | I hope to see some supported samples for z3 in the next future | 02:08 |
| projekt01 | I don't agree at all with him. But I agree the learning curve is to high, that's right. | 02:09 |
| projekt01 | But not because of the complexity, it's a question of working samples I guess. | 02:09 |
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| projekt01 | The concepts are pretty easy to understand if somebody can explain it ;-) | 02:10 |
| projekt01 | But learning by doing can be really frustration right now. | 02:10 |
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| kickingvegas | yeah; imho it is enough to make me walk away from Zope3 right now; dealt too much with uncertainty with Zope2 | 02:11 |
| projekt01 | But write a mail to the list and tell the people what you think about that. | 02:12 |
| kickingvegas | I really want to believe, but too much frustration; I never get to feel confident that I _understand_ the system | 02:13 |
| projekt01 | I'm sure if we get enough feedback in this direction somebody will write a better sample sometime ;-) | 02:13 |
| projekt01 | I hope to meet you again on this channel ;-) | 02:15 |
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| kickingvegas | perhaps on writing a feedback e-mail - I've been developing in python for over 10 years now and Zope always manages to make me feel stupid. | 02:17 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 02:18 |
| kickingvegas | and not in a good way either. | 02:18 |
| projekt01 | perhaps join a sprint with a tutorial would be a good idea to get into zope3 | 02:19 |
| kickingvegas | looks like most of them are in Europe - here in San Francisco | 02:21 |
| gnosis | thought i saw a sprint in san jose | 02:21 |
| gnosis | Nov 7-11 there is a Zope2+3/CMF/Plone sprint in san jose... plone.org have info | 02:23 |
| kickingvegas | not to my knowledge - looking at the sprint list | 02:23 |
| kickingvegas | aah - okay | 02:23 |
| projekt01 | I'm sure it will be easier to get into z3 if we have some working applications next year. | 02:25 |
| gnosis | it would be nice | 02:25 |
| kickingvegas | yes; neither of the published texts tell me how to connect to a SQL database for instance | 02:27 |
| kickingvegas | likewise I'm terrified at doing a mind-meld with the zope3 security model | 02:29 |
| gnosis | is it bad form to just use the appropriate database adapter for python? | 02:29 |
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| kickingvegas | gnosis: I don't know - | 02:33 |
| gnosis | seems you could write functions for insert/delete/update and tie in appropriate security with zcml | 02:34 |
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| kickingvegas | projekt01: why working applications next year? seems like having a zope guru figure out a | 02:39 |
| kickingvegas | simple app that is maintained would go a long way towards letting noobies figure out why Zope 3 is a good fit | 02:40 |
| kickingvegas | (or not) | 02:40 |
| kickingvegas | gnosis: thanks for the info on the the nov 7 sprint | 02:42 |
| gnosis | np | 02:42 |
| kickingvegas | projekt01: thanks very much for your help as well! | 02:43 |
| projekt01 | np | 02:43 |
| projekt01 | hope to see you again joining the comunity | 02:43 |
| kickingvegas | anyways, gots to run - I'll be back (with more questions) later! | 02:47 |
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| newpers | is there anyone in here from the phoenix area interested in collaborating on a project? | 04:03 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | how can i hide the ZMI components (browser menus) from users | 04:31 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | what is the approch for doing this....any clue | 04:33 |
| srichter | write your own skin | 04:35 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | i have written a macro extending the default skin | 04:36 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | i could modify the look and feel, but the zmi browser menus are still there | 04:37 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | like the add_content, zmi_views, zmi_actions | 04:38 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | how can i hide these from the user | 04:39 |
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| srichter | write your own skin from scratch | 05:03 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | thanks srichter | 05:29 |
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| VladDrac | emjeetje | 11:44 |
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| yotaff | hi :) | 12:09 |
| sashav | what are the guidelines for using __call__ in a class? I mean what is the difference semanticly to do this: db = MyDb(); db(configuration) compared to db.configure(configuration) and then db.search(...) ? | 12:15 |
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| VladDrac | imho, __call__ is different from "configuration" | 12:43 |
| VladDrac | calling something is requesting it do do what it's supposed to do | 12:43 |
| VladDrac | i.e. a template to render itself | 12:43 |
| VladDrac | a class to instantiate itself | 12:44 |
| VladDrac | a method to execute itself | 12:44 |
| VladDrac | etc. | 12:44 |
| VladDrac | in the case of something db-ish, I would't know what would be appropriate for __call__ | 12:44 |
| VladDrac | do you could see your db as a factory for resultsets, so __call__ could query, perhaps | 12:44 |
| sashav | thanks VladDrac, yes I could have the __call__ do the query, that fits better then configuration. google = MyGoogleSearch(), google.configure(..), res = google(query) | 12:52 |
| sashav | but on the other hand calling google.search(query) isn't wrong either :) | 12:53 |
| VladDrac | configuration is usually also done through the constructor (which is of course a call by itself) | 12:53 |
| VladDrac | you don't *have* to (ab)use __call__ | 12:53 |
| VladDrac | of course, the main reason to use __call__ is to implemnt a callable | 12:53 |
| sashav | yes but in my case it would be a utility which is reconfigured before every search | 12:53 |
| VladDrac | i.e. something that fits into "methods, classes, .." | 12:54 |
| sashav | don't want to abuse it that is why I asked for the semantics | 12:54 |
| VladDrac | sashav: does configure store the configuration persistently? because you don't want that | 12:54 |
| VladDrac | I don't think a utility should (temporarily) store call-specific information | 12:55 |
| VladDrac | perhaps your utility should be a factory, creating the configured utility :) | 12:56 |
| VladDrac | s = utility.create(configuration); s.search(..) | 12:56 |
| sashav | no it shouldn't, I thought of doing search(query, conf) from the begining but I didn't want to do the configuration everytime before a search.... ah yes factory sounds better | 12:57 |
| sashav | no it shouldn't = not store persistently | 12:57 |
| * sashav opens the zope3 book again | 12:58 | |
| VladDrac | :) | 12:58 |
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| sashav | factory is probably what I want, I got stuck on the utility thing because I only wanted one instance of my googlesearch thingy which is then reused but if I create a configured instance do my searches and throw it away it's probably much nicer and better | 13:03 |
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| VladDrac | I'm not sure I understand what you're specifically implementing | 13:03 |
| VladDrac | but I wasn't really talking about zope3 factories, but about a utility that behaves like a factory itself | 13:04 |
| VladDrac | also, you might consider if you perhaps need a local utility with a local configuration | 13:04 |
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| sashav | VladDrac: I have some objects which do searches through google and others, so my thought was that they get a (google)searcher, configure it and do the search, you use the ZMI to choose configuration and searcher | 13:28 |
| tarek | srichter, ayt ? | 13:35 |
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| srichter | tarek: I am booting up for the day | 13:57 |
| srichter | tarek: if you want to put me down as author, just type "StephanRichter" | 13:57 |
| tarek | srichter, ok | 14:00 |
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| andres | Is it correct, that if i inherit from Contained, i dont have __parent__ available in init? | 14:58 |
| andres | Or am i doing something wrong. | 14:58 |
| andres | ? | 14:58 |
| andres | Btw, __parent__ is None then. | 14:59 |
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| roym | Is the <form> directive meant to only be used | 16:10 |
| roym | with IInputWidgets? If not, how do I force it | 16:10 |
| roym | to render widgets as IDisplayWidgets? | 16:10 |
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| dobee | roym: if the field is editable and the user has permission to change the value, IInputWidget is used | 16:18 |
| dobee | ryom: use the widget subdirective to override | 16:18 |
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| roym | dobee: does the widget subdirective have an explicit option to render as IDisplayWidget? | 16:26 |
| dobee | roym: see: http://svn.zope.org/Zope3/trunk/src/zope/app/form/browser/metadirectives.py?rev=30479&view=auto | 16:28 |
| faassen | roym: I'd also suggest looking at zope.formlib if you're into zope forms. it's more friendly than the form directive in my experience. | 16:28 |
| roym | faassen, dobee, thanks. | 16:28 |
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| MacYET | what is the recommended solution to write helper methods for templates that deal with standard python types and not with components? | 18:29 |
| philiKON | supplementary view classes | 18:34 |
| philiKON | <browser:page ... template="..." class="..." /> | 18:34 |
| MacYET | tnx | 18:38 |
| philiKON | benji_york, what's the command you ran to convert your reST quickstart into html? | 18:39 |
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| faassen | rest2html is a nice command, philipp? :) | 18:42 |
| philiKON | yeah | 18:42 |
| philiKON | rst2html i believe it's called | 18:42 |
| faassen | right. | 18:43 |
| faassen | that's it, I think. | 18:43 |
| philiKON | dang, it's not in the Zope distribution of docutils | 18:43 |
| benji_york | faassen, I've been pleased with rst2html for my quick start and it has worked well so far | 18:43 |
| faassen | zope's distribution should just reference docutils with an egg anyway. | 18:43 |
| faassen | benji_york: yeah, I use it quite a bit. | 18:43 |
| faassen | benji_york: or at least the programmatic equivalent, I think. | 18:43 |
| philiKON | i've just always used the programmatic equivalent | 18:44 |
| faassen | benji_york: a bunch of websitse on codespeak I put up are driven by ReST. | 18:44 |
| philiKON | actually, i've pretty much always used zope.app.renderer :) | 18:44 |
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| faassen | benji_york: codespeak.net/z3, codespeak.net/lxml, codespeak.neticalendar | 18:44 |
| philiKON | yeah, nice tool faassen wrote for codespeak.net. we use it for dirstorage.sf.net now, too | 18:44 |
| benji_york | cool | 18:44 |
| philiKON | worldcookery.com is reST too, but zope.app.renderer | 18:45 |
| faassen | philiKON: oh, cool, hadn't seen that yet. | 18:45 |
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| faassen | whit|newphone: new phone? | 18:45 |
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| philiKON | faassen, http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/dirstorage/DirectoryStorage/doc/mkwebsite.py?rev=1.3&view=auto :) | 18:46 |
| philiKON | i'm very pleased how nice the spelling is for such a thing | 18:46 |
| faassen | philiKON: cool, it was basically a bit of a quick hack. :) | 18:48 |
| philiKON | one with a nice pythonic api :) | 18:48 |
| faassen | philiKON: but it makes making new websites quick hacks too. :) | 18:48 |
| philiKON | it works. and it's so simple that others immediately like it too | 18:48 |
| philiKON | reST + this little python module really sells it :) | 18:49 |
| faassen | that's good to hear. we can now just chuck Zope 3 and use this. ;) | 18:49 |
| philiKON | yeah | 18:50 |
| philiKON | svn rm Zope3; svn ci | 18:50 |
| faassen | anyway, I was thinking of the zope 3 equivalent of this. | 18:50 |
| faassen | for zope3.org | 18:50 |
| philiKON | i have a teeny z3 content component called wcsite.page.Page | 18:51 |
| philiKON | for worldcookery.com | 18:51 |
| philiKON | takes some form of text (reST, STX, plain) and puts that into markup | 18:52 |
| philiKON | also figures out some basic DC stuff from it | 18:52 |
| philiKON | like the dc.Title and dc.Description | 18:52 |
| * faassen nods. | 18:52 | |
| philiKON | anyways, i'll be making a zope3.1-compatible release of that soon (weekend) | 18:54 |
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| faassen | philiKON: cool! | 19:00 |
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| faassen | zope.org is FUBAR | 19:11 |
| faassen | can't download Zope 2.7.8.. | 19:11 |
| MacYET | real men use svn | 19:13 |
| faassen | MacYET: heh. | 19:13 |
| faassen | MacYET: real men can't download Zope 2.7.8 then as it's in CVS. :) | 19:13 |
| MacYET | the download works for me | 19:14 |
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| faassen | MacYET: how do you even get to Zope 2.7.8? older zope releases screen is borked for us. | 19:14 |
| faassen | (Insufficient privileges) | 19:14 |
| MacYET | just tried it | 19:14 |
| MacYET | blame the f*cked up zope.org site | 19:14 |
| faassen | the direct URL works. | 19:15 |
| MacYET | at least plone 1.x is good enough so zope.org still works somehow | 19:15 |
| MacYET | enough bitching for today :) | 19:15 |
| * MacYET is away: Blicket auf zum Retterblick, Alle reuig Zarten, Euch zu sel'gem Glueck, Dankend umzuarten! | 19:19 | |
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| th1a | _projekt01: ayt? | 19:21 |
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| baldtrol | afternoon everyone... | 21:59 |
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