IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-12-06

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J1manyone wanna test the source release?00:22
lifelessJ1m: no, but I have a small white paper I'd like you to read ;000:25
J1muh, ok00:26
lifelesshah00:26
lifelessits on testing, and test suite speed etc00:26
lifelesshttp://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/interfaceverfication.txt00:26
J1mThe requested URL /~robertc/interfaceverfication.txt was not found on this server.00:27
lifelesshttp://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/interfaceverification.txt00:28
lifelessah00:28
lifelessmissing i00:28
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z3noobhi, new five user here... got a basic interfaces question:  how do i have my code ask for an implementation of an interface and not care which implementation it gets? or to put it another way - where do I put the responsibility for creating some actual instance that implements my interface?01:39
z3noobsome kind of factory?01:40
lifelessgetUtility is a call that can perform service location by interface01:40
z3noobi'll look that up01:40
z3noobis there a better channel for newbie stuff? or is this it?01:41
z3noobhmm i don't think utilities are what i want - these objects i'm working with are typically used only for one request, then thrown away01:47
z3nooband i don't care about their name01:48
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z3noobcan i register an adapter for python builtin types?  e.g. given a string, adapt it to my interface02:05
dman13I would think you should be able to do that02:11
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z3noobhmm i would think so too, but i note he didn't say how :-\02:16
z3noobi tried using <adapter for="str" but doesn't seem to work02:22
z3noobi guess the value of "for" must be an interface02:23
z3nooball the examples in docs do that, anyway02:24
z3noobah, my zcml is borken anyway ;-)02:30
WebMavensound like a bad movie: 'Zope3: The Borkening'02:34
z3noobok my zcml is no longer borken... at least i get no errors on startup... but in test code i can't adapt a string to my interface.  rats.02:36
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z3nooboh well, try again later.02:45
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tiredbonesIf I ever understand zope 3 technology, I will be blessed.It will be awhile before this puzzle is complete.04:04
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VolpeHi, I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to define roles on Principles stored in a BTreePrincipleSource.  I don't quite get it... :\07:21
VolpeOr mention the source file that would give me a hint. :\07:22
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VolpeNo body around? or no body know?07:34
Volpe...07:40
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VolpeCan you grant permissions outside of zcml? :\07:48
lifelessyes07:52
lifelesszcml is just a config language, its all python at the code07:52
VolpeI'm just figuring that out now.07:52
VolpeWhere's the api for this stuff? :\07:53
Volpeor is it that ++apidoc++ thing.07:53
VolpeAh I think I get it, the role and permission stuff are just zope utilities.08:01
VolpeThat are initialized from zcml.08:02
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einshi09:04
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romanofskimoin09:43
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romanofskidoes something similar exist like verbose security or is there a way to track, why some permissions seems not to work?11:59
romanofskia ++debug++security or something would be neat11:59
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projekt01srichter, ayt?12:58
andresprojekt01, btw, your calendar widget is working. I didnt include the css which was necessary for it to work.13:06
projekt01andres, Ah, cool, do you use it in a project?13:09
andresYes.13:09
andresBut just an inhouse project.13:10
projekt01cool, if I find out how to package all this libraries with zpkg, I will release it.13:12
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SteveAfaassen: aargh.  python's optimisation of calling __len__ when doing list(foo) keeps tripping me up!13:51
mgedminSteveA, what do you do?13:51
SteveAfor example, sqlobject's ResultSet has a __len__ that makes an SQL count query13:52
faassenSteveA: I didn't do it!13:52
SteveAfaassen: i know!  but you're a good recipient of rants!  you have a weblog!13:52
faassenSteveA: heh. :)13:52
faassenSteveA: that means I'm a good generator of rants. :)13:52
mgedminwhile True: yield random.choice(self.rants)13:53
SteveAso, i want to do $work on __len__ of an object13:53
SteveAand the object is iterable, so it makes sense to say list(object), for example, from a tal:repeat in TALES13:54
SteveAbut, tal:repeat will call __len__, even though it doesn't really want to13:54
SteveAthere is no way from the object in question to tell if __len__ is a legitimate call worth expending effort on, or an optimisation from list()13:54
SteveAi did manage to look up to the next frame, look in its names and bytecode13:55
SteveAand try to infer if the global list() callable was called last13:55
SteveAbut that's kinda flaky13:55
SteveAi think this is a mistake in python development.  python should have used a separate slot for "optimize me for list()"13:55
SteveAlike __listlen__13:56
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faassenhm.13:59
faassenwrite it on your blog. :)13:59
mgedminget a blog, *then* write it13:59
SteveAi have been saying for 18 months "i should have a blog"14:00
SteveAand then i never do anything about it14:00
SteveAi am so lazy14:00
SteveAah... but i do have a fresh zope3 tree now, so i can look into that HTTP Headers bug that might have been fixed14:00
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lifelesswhy does tal:repeat call list(object) rather than iter(object)?14:06
philiKONlifeless, because it's probably been around longer than iter() has14:07
philiKONlifeless, feel free to change it14:07
romanofskidoes something similar exist like verbose security or is there a way to track, why some permissions seems not to work?14:08
romanofskia ++debug++security or something would be neat14:08
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philiKONromanofski, yeah, the Debug skin has a view for the Unauthorized exception that tells you the permission it's lacking14:09
philiKON++skin++Debug14:09
* romanofski tries that14:10
romanofskihm.. it works with the debug skin, but not with my own skin14:12
* projekt01 there is also a debug namespace ++debug++tal or ++debug++source14:12
romanofskiright projekt01, but you can't debug why a user isn't allowed to access a particular page14:13
lifelessphiliKON: ok that helps then ;)14:14
SteveAlifeless: i'll look into that too, of course14:14
romanofskisomething like verboseSecurity in the old zope2 days14:14
projekt01romanofski, yes, that's true14:16
romanofskiphiliKON: how does the skin suppose to work, if a user is unauthorized to view an object? are there little tricks or buttons I've to press?14:17
projekt01romanofski, you can click on the Error view where is reporting unauthorized errors if you enable to traceback unauthorized errors.14:17
* romanofski looks for a big red button labeled: "press here and I do what you wan't" *G14:17
philiKONromanofski, the debug skin simply has a view for the Unauthorized exception14:18
philiKONa special view14:18
philiKONthat exposes security details14:18
romanofskiokey... i try to look it up14:18
andresromanofski, you can make the debug skin part of your skin.14:18
romanofskijust include it in the layers right?14:19
lifelessSteveA: naturally ;)14:19
andresromanofski, yes, i did that, and it works well.14:19
philiKONreminds me of writing that skins+layers = 1 proposal14:20
romanofskisounds like a very good idea andres - thanks :)14:20
romanofskithanks philiKON and projekt01 :)14:21
philiKONnp14:21
projekt01np14:21
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philiKONJ1m, just FYI, i'm updating zope 2.9 branch to the zope 3.2.0b1 tag15:22
J1mGood15:23
J1mI really prefer using revision number in general, but the use of the tag here is convenient.15:23
* philiKON agrees15:23
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d2mJ1m: are the files at http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope3/3.2.0b1 private on purpose ?16:08
J1myes16:09
d2mok, thanks16:09
J1mI'll publish them when I'm ready to announce the release.16:09
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efgeI'm trying to get a list of subscribers for an event interface, but without "running" them. How would I go about doing that?16:53
SteveAyou'd need to dig into the component registries16:54
SteveAi don't believe there is a good API for getting things by interface16:54
J1mUse the subscriptions method on the adapter registry.16:54
J1mIf you get hold of the current site, it has an adapters attr which is the registry.16:55
J1mSteveA, for the June release, I'd like to follow up on a suggestion of yours.16:56
J1mI'd like to make explcit objects with methods for component lookup.16:56
J1m(In addition to what we have now.)16:56
philiKONJ1m, can you elaborate on that? what are "explicit objects with methods"?16:57
J1mThis way, an app could be a bit more explicit about how/where it looks things up.16:57
J1mso, now we use component package methods.16:57
philiKONright16:58
J1mThese hide a policy of having thread-specific "sites",16:58
J1mI think it's fine to have such a default policy, but I think it would be good to have the ability to say: "use this particular component source".16:59
J1mIn certain contexts you want to use sources other than the default.16:59
philiKONi guess so16:59
SteveAthread-specific sites?16:59
philiKONwe already have that, no?16:59
J1mFor example, when processing ZCML, you want to use a ZCML-provides source of components.17:00
J1mphiliKON, we have bits of this, but it's not as well thought out as it should be.17:00
SteveAthis would make the metazcml registry of components more explicit17:00
J1mSteveA, the component methods use a "site".17:00
J1myes17:01
J1mThe definition of site is pluggable.17:01
J1mZope plugs in a mechanism that uses separate sites for each thread.17:01
SteveAas well as allow various nefarious plans i'd like to try out, like having a source of components for related to something about a particular interaction17:01
J1myes17:01
J1mwhich is exactly what Zope does now.17:01
J1mIn setting up a request, we set the thread-local site to one traversed to in the request.17:02
J1mAt the end of the request, we set the thread-local site back to the global one.17:02
efgeJ1m: ok I found my subscribers, thanks17:04
SteveAbut i think this "component source" would be less than the current zope3 concept of a "site"17:06
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benjiagreed, SteveA; if not, we need a better name then "site" for them17:16
SteveAsites carry a lot of extra stuff now17:16
SteveAlike, the expectation of a URL traversal to them17:16
SteveAzodb stuff17:16
SteveAthe expectation of a UI17:16
SteveAof mutability17:16
SteveAof having local code17:16
SteveAon launchpad i've had no particular use for the zope3 "site" concept as such, but i do have uses for something that says from where i look up adapters and utilities17:17
SteveAmaybe this is a case like with TAL/TALES vs DTML.  a less powerful but clearer concept takes you farther.17:18
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zbirI'd like to contribute another zopectl command that I have to allow for Zope2-like 'zopectl run some_script.py' to allow for easy client scripting. I've got it working here. For stuff like zopeskel binaries, is it just enough to have it and the batch file working?17:29
zbirJ1m suggested working on his branch, since it *is* a new feature17:30
zbirjust wanted to get some other input.17:30
zbiralso, I'm curious why the very slight extra effort isn't made in zopectl debug to put the root container in the locals - I've got a version that does. Saves having to do 'root = debugger.root()' every. single. time.17:32
benji+1 zbir17:33
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philiKONJ1m, btw, would you care to explain why exactly we need 'Zope' to be in the tag name?17:38
J1mBecause of a bug/missfeature in zpkg.17:39
J1mIt constructs the tag name by combining the collection name and the release name.17:39
J1mI didn't find a way to get around that and I didn't want to delay things to fix it.17:40
philiKONJ1m, intersting, because MacYET reports that a '2.9.0b1' tag name works fine on zope 217:45
philiKON(no Zope- prefix)17:45
J1mweird17:48
philiKONyeah17:49
srichtersee Andreas' last checkin17:52
srichterLog message for revision 40597:17:52
srichter  we need to pass -r tagname to zpkg17:52
philiKONright17:53
philiKONbut that needs to be done anyways, right17:53
srichteroh, ytes, right17:53
J1mSigh17:57
J1mI'm not allowed to register package info for zope17:57
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J1msrichter, OK, I've done release steps 1-8,5.18:23
J1mI sent a note to zope3-dev.18:23
J1mI'd be inclined to wait a day to send the message elsewhere.18:23
J1mCan you follow up and send it to ither lists and outlets?18:24
J1mAnd I think you have to register it with pypi.18:24
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agroszerhelp, I'm stuck with Pluggable Authentication18:33
agroszerI can't create a working PAU, principal folder, group folder by code18:33
agroszerthey are created, registered but don't seem to work18:33
agroszeris there any package/project doing something like this?18:33
zbirdefine "don't seem to work"18:35
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andresIf its interesting: Zope3.2b1 is passing all manual and automated testing here.18:52
andres(zope3.2+psycopgda+sqlos)18:52
andresI mean with my application ;-)18:52
andresExcept one thing i had fixed manually in zope3.1 but forgot to report. Im not sure if this is my failure or zope's. What is the preferred way to report a (supposedly) fix of 3 lines? Mail, IRC, or Bugtracker?18:55
J1mThe collector18:56
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srichterJ1m: ok, will do19:03
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