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| eins | hi | 08:06 |
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| volvox | hi there | 12:33 |
| volvox | I would like to know if a book like this could be useful to a z3 developer for intranet applications | 12:33 |
| volvox | Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture (Hardcover) by M. Fowler | 12:34 |
| volvox | it seems well done, does anyone know it? | 12:34 |
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| ktwilight | hmm...i dunno 'bout that. but have you looked at the two available books for z3? | 12:39 |
| volvox | ktwilight: it's not about the tool, but the design of complex software.. | 12:40 |
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| ktwilight | right....no clue then :) | 12:41 |
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| SteveA | volvox: yes | 12:45 |
| SteveA | volvox: read all books by martin fowler | 12:45 |
| volvox | SteveA: well, I like him, but for instance with Refactoring, half of the examples make little sense with python :-) | 12:45 |
| volvox | i will read it, thanks | 12:46 |
| SteveA | particularly the section on distributed systems | 12:46 |
| SteveA | where it basically says "don't" | 12:46 |
| volvox | lol | 12:46 |
| volvox | distributed systems are like a dungeon full of traps | 12:47 |
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| roym | A recurring use-case in my application seems to be the creation of | 14:17 |
| roym | interfaces to allow uses to do many-to-many mapping. The presentation | 14:17 |
| roym | usually is an input form that looks like a sparsely populated grid | 14:17 |
| roym | (often radio buttons). Are there any established patterns or | 14:17 |
| roym | techniquest to handle this sort of thing? I find myself writing the | 14:17 |
| roym | same code again and again. | 14:17 |
| faassen | hm I don't know.. | 14:20 |
| faassen | one technique you might be able to use is to define a new widget | 14:20 |
| faassen | (and perhaps a new schema field for storage, if what's available doesn't apply) | 14:20 |
| faassen | writing a new widget is more up-front work but once it's done it's quite convenient to use. | 14:20 |
| volvox | faassen: i've looked at hurry.workflow, as I told you at europython, to replace my dumb workflow | 14:22 |
| volvox | i need to check if the current principal is the one that created the object | 14:22 |
| volvox | inside the condition, how do I get hold of the current principal? I only have the context object | 14:23 |
| volvox | and don't know how I am supposed to get the request.principal | 14:23 |
| * volvox thinks it's probably a dumb question | 14:24 | |
| roym | volvox: I asked the same sort of questions, and someone told me that usually, that type of determination needs to happen in the views... (ie: before they get to the context method). | 14:26 |
| volvox | roym: I'm using a workflow component because I don't want to do state management in the view.. | 14:26 |
| roym | agreed, but don't you usually get to the method via a view method of some sort. afaik, the principal is usually defined in the context of an interaction, and the context classes are generally unaware of requests and principals. | 14:28 |
| volvox | roym: so if everything fails I could ask for the interaction and get the request from there? | 14:29 |
| roym | I think its more like you have always have to pass the principal from a view to the context methods. | 14:30 |
| volvox | roym: the function that is called is the condition: def NullCondition(wf, context)... no request there | 14:31 |
| volvox | but i'll look deeper,tnx | 14:31 |
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| roym | I have a table view (hundreds of cells) - I plan to render each cell | 14:47 |
| roym | using a construct like "content="obj/@@viewA | obj/@@viewB". Is this | 14:47 |
| roym | type of fallback processing costly, or reasonable to do? | 14:47 |
| SteveA | using tal:repeat is costly | 14:51 |
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| roym | SteveA: when rendering a table, how can one avoid tal:repeat? | 14:54 |
| SteveA | render it in python, and include it that <div tal:replace="structure view/renderTable" /> | 14:55 |
| mexiKON | roym, take a look at zc.table, perhaps | 14:55 |
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| roym | ok - wouldn't have suspected tal:repeat to be expensive. As for my question about fallback processing being costly (cos intuititively, I think that involves a try/catch), what are your thoughts? | 14:58 |
| roym | mexiKON: where is zc.table? | 15:00 |
| mexiKON | svn.zope.org | 15:02 |
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| SteveA | roym: the cost of using tal at all vastly outweighs the additional cost of a single try-catch | 15:06 |
| SteveA | try-except in python-speak | 15:07 |
| SteveA | (java programmer uncovered ;-) ) | 15:07 |
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| roym | :) ooops - just that I get paid to do java (daytimes) | 15:08 |
| * rocky was fortunate enough to give up his java day job a couple years ago ;) | 15:09 | |
| roym | mexiKON: zc.table looks very promising, thanks. | 15:16 |
| roym | makes me wonder what else is there outside of z3-trunk that I might have benefited from. Is there a listing/README/overview that I might look at? | 15:17 |
| faassen | volvox: who were you at europython? | 15:29 |
| faassen | roym: not yet, we need to start doing such things for zope.org | 15:31 |
| faassen | roym: there's quite a lot of fun stuff hiding out in svn.zope.org. also the hurry stuff at codespeak.net/svn/z3 | 15:31 |
| faassen | volvox: anyway, I saw some of the discussions, yeah, it's kind of unpleasant to have to get the principal from the request.. | 15:32 |
| faassen | volvox: there's a hacky way to get to it otherwise, let me look it up for you | 15:32 |
| * rocky snickers at faassen's shameless plug *grin* | 15:32 | |
| faassen | rocky: the hurry stuff? :) yeah, I wrote the hurry stuff :) | 15:32 |
| volvox | faassen: getInteraction().participations[0] ? | 15:32 |
| faassen | not all of it anymore, Stephan Richter has been improving .. | 15:32 |
| faassen | volvox: right | 15:32 |
| volvox | tnx | 15:33 |
| faassen | volvox: that's it. | 15:33 |
| faassen | I think there should be some Zope 3 API for that to do that officially somehow. | 15:33 |
| volvox | naa, people would use it in content objects ;-) | 15:33 |
| faassen | as it's really convenient, especially from within workflow and stuff. | 15:33 |
| faassen | well, I'm of the philosophy that if people want to do evil stuff they'll find out ways to do anyway | 15:33 |
| faassen | Zope 3 can't stop them. it can only encourage the right way | 15:34 |
| faassen | and it's just a plain common usecase to want to get to the principal. | 15:34 |
| faassen | I'm not even sure whether it'd always be a bad thing from within a content object. | 15:34 |
| rocky | well, that's the philosophy of python in general | 15:34 |
| rocky | no such thing as private members, etc | 15:34 |
| faassen | right. :) | 15:34 |
| * volvox thinks one private member per male developer is enough | 15:34 | |
| faassen | :) | 15:35 |
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| mexiKON | romanofski, how's the skin coming? | 15:46 |
| romanofski | haven't had time the last days, but will continue the work today | 15:47 |
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| romanofski | mexiKON: installed an instance on my box at home so I can surely continue with the work :) | 16:17 |
| mexiKON | :) | 16:17 |
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