| J1m | jodok, yes | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jodok | J1m: we're working on performance tuning for z3 at the snow-sprint | 00:03 |
| J1m | ok | 00:03 |
| jodok | J1m: we're wondering what happend with ESI and zope... | 00:03 |
| jodok | (was it cancelled?) | 00:03 |
| J1m | Well, squid 3 was never released. | 00:03 |
| J1m | Despite paying for it, we've never been able to use it. | 00:04 |
| J1m | I've heard that other people are using it in production. | 00:04 |
| jodok | what are you guys using? | 00:04 |
| J1m | Straight squid | 00:04 |
| J1m | We've been able to avoid the need for page assembly. | 00:05 |
| J1m | It's a real shame though. | 00:05 |
| jodok | ic. i've been chatting with one of the squid programmers earlier this day - it seems like they were pretty interested to get ESI finished | 00:05 |
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| J1m | Great. I wish they would. | 00:05 |
| jodok | right now dobee and jukart are working on viewlet-caches and invalidation... | 00:06 |
| J1m | cool | 00:06 |
| jodok | this seems to speed up rendering dramatically | 00:06 |
| J1m | Does that imply some sort of dependency model? | 00:06 |
| dobee | hi J1m, we define dependencies on interface and docid basis | 00:07 |
| dobee | and invalidate on object events | 00:08 |
| J1m | That's cool. Is this pubically available anywhere? | 00:08 |
| J1m | That's cool. Is this publically available anywhere? | 00:08 |
| J1m | :_) | 00:08 |
| J1m | :) | 00:08 |
| dobee | not now, but this week | 00:09 |
| jodok | (nevertheless we'd also like to see this happen in front of zope with squid/ESI) | 00:09 |
| J1m | squid/ESI (or event client-side assembly) would make this a bit easier as there would be less to invalidate. | 00:11 |
| jodok | J1m: there is one guy (adrian chadd) from squid that seems to be really interested in get esi fixed in squid3 | 00:12 |
| J1m | Like I said, I wish they would. I wasn't even aware that it was broken with squid 3. | 00:13 |
| jodok | J1m: do you remember what the main issues were? | 00:13 |
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| J1m | The biggest issue was that squid 3 was never finished. | 00:13 |
| J1m | We've had some stibility problems the few times we tried it and finally stopped beating our heads against a wall. | 00:14 |
| jodok | J1m: sounds really promising :) | 00:14 |
| J1m | We've decided to cut our losses. | 00:14 |
| jodok | adrian promised that lots of bugs have been fixed meanwhile... | 00:15 |
| jodok | but you're right - it's beta since several years | 00:15 |
| J1m | Honestly, at this point, client side assembly makes a lot more sense in a lot os ways. | 00:15 |
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| jhauser | jodok have you looked at alternatives to squid? | 01:00 |
| jhauser | squid is a real big monster | 01:00 |
| jodok | jhauser: well - varnish sounds interesting | 01:00 |
| jodok | jhauser: we're using squid for a long time now | 01:01 |
| jodok | now we'd like to have something ESI like | 01:01 |
| jhauser | yes varnish for caching and nginx for loadbalancing | 01:01 |
| jhauser | and apache replacement | 01:01 |
| jhauser | these are smaller more fresh and more focused projects | 01:02 |
| jodok | jhauser: and what for ESI? | 01:02 |
| jhauser | varnish lists esi as the most requested feature | 01:02 |
| jhauser | but varnish is really fresh :-) | 01:02 |
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| jhauser | we use nginx in production for the moment as a pound replacement | 01:03 |
| jodok | jhauser: hmm ESI... | 01:04 |
| jhauser | what's the main bottleneck you want to use esi for | 01:07 |
| jhauser | display of navigation or inclusion of more dynamic content | 01:08 |
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| jodok | jhauser: personalization | 01:13 |
| jodok | jhauser: having hundreds of parallel users | 01:13 |
| jodok | jhauser: having complex pages/viewlets to render | 01:13 |
| jhauser_ | but you could only cache the boring parts, and need to render many parts of the page nevertheless | 01:15 |
| jhauser_ | Hey I'm not against esi, but I wonder how much more complex everything else would be | 01:15 |
| jhauser_ | the assembly of a complex page is in part the duty of the appserver and to transfer this more to the front would not make in less complex | 01:17 |
| jodok | jhauser_: well zope has it's problems when you are serving 60 mbit/s of dynamic data | 01:20 |
| jhauser_ | yes :-) | 01:20 |
| jodok | jhauser_: we're working on snowsprint on this topic | 01:20 |
| jodok | i researched today and found no alternative to squid esi | 01:21 |
| jodok | jhauser_: mod_xslt and other apache modules are discontinued | 01:22 |
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| jhauser_ | but zope can serve static content ten times faster | 01:22 |
| jhauser_ | I mean, a simple page template which only assembles cached data | 01:23 |
| jhauser_ | so I think application caching is very important | 01:23 |
| jodok | jhauser_: definitely | 01:24 |
| jodok | jhauser_: but nevertheless there are use cases when you don't want to use zope to assemble pages | 01:25 |
| jhauser_ | sure | 01:26 |
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| jhauser_ | is esi somewhere specified? | 01:31 |
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| softdevr | hi, i'm looking at zcml and have seen the basics of a package's zcml configuration - but how is zcml used to configure an actual application? The ZCML equivalent of using the ZMI. | 02:19 |
| softdevr | So creating instances of components within a zope app | 02:20 |
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| CSWookie | Theuni: You there? | 07:29 |
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| Theuni | CSWookie: here. | 09:44 |
| CSWookie | I committed what I think will fix the breakages in the ranking tests. Could you give them a shot when you get a chance? | 09:50 |
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| CSWookie | Theuni: It may. | 12:00 |
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| softdevr | hi, can someone please point me in the right direction - I'm trying to work out how to register components within an app using ZCML | 13:55 |
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| ignas | components? | 14:01 |
| softdevr | ah, a package. Once I have a package configured in Zope3 I can use ZMI to create instances to create my actual app. Can this second step also be done instead in ZCML and/or Python? | 14:04 |
| srichter | noone uses the ZMI to do anything, so yes it can be done in ZCML and Python | 14:05 |
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| srichter | you should pcik up a book | 14:05 |
| srichter | also there is: http://localhost:8080/++apidoc++ if you want to get a list of all directives | 14:05 |
| srichter | (you must have Zope 3 started in devmode (see zope.conf to turn it on) | 14:06 |
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| softdevr | thanks. The examples I can find on the web describe how to wire packages into the Zope3 framework, but I can't find one that then goes on to using ZCML to put together an app. | 14:13 |
| d2m | softdevr: i know of the worldcookery.com website app (available as download) -- maybe helpful for a start | 14:20 |
| d2m | softdevr: i only has a little wiring, mostly usink a new skin on top of the rotterdam skin | 14:21 |
| d2m | s/usink/using | 14:21 |
| softdevr | d2m: thanks, I'll take a look | 14:26 |
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| softdevr | hi, what is the svn url to check-out the packages I can view at svn.zope.org? svn co http://svn.zope.org doesn't work, neither does svn:// | 22:23 |
| d2m | http://www.zope.org/DevHome/Subversion/ReadOnlyAccess | 22:23 |
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| softdevr | just downloading that, but that's going to just checkout zope? | 22:25 |
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| d2m | svn co svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/projectname... | 22:27 |
| softdevr | thanks again | 22:32 |
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| softdevr | exit | 23:36 |
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| WebMaven | Does python:test(expr, val1, val2) not work anymore? | 23:36 |
| WebMaven | I've got this tal code: | 23:37 |
| WebMaven | tal:attributes="class python:test(True, 'here', default)" | 23:37 |
| WebMaven | and I get this error: | 23:37 |
| WebMaven | NameError: name 'test' is not defined | 23:38 |
| WebMaven | Does this not work in Zope3? | 23:38 |
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| WebMaven | this is wierd. | 23:52 |
| WebMaven | I can only find one spot in the Zope3 codebase that uses this feature. | 23:52 |
| WebMaven | But I can't fand any mention of it being deprecated. | 23:54 |
| WebMaven | I mean, can't find. | 23:54 |
| WebMaven | J1m: AYT? | 23:54 |
| WebMaven | J1m: was this TALES expression form deprecated?: "python:test(expr, val1, val2)" | 23:56 |
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