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| baijum | Theuni, new buildout site is not resolving ? http://zopebuildout.whq.gocept.com | 11:14 |
|---|---|---|
| Theuni | ugh. typo. | 11:14 |
| Theuni | zopebuildbot.whq.gocept.com | 11:15 |
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| Theuni | when working with those two i keep mixing them up linguisticall | 11:15 |
| Theuni | y | 11:15 |
| MJ | Theuni: I was wondering :-) | 11:15 |
| baijum | ah. it's working, great ! congratulations ! | 11:15 |
| Theuni | MJ: ;) | 11:16 |
| Theuni | baijum: thanks. i hope i can keep it from falling on its face all the time. | 11:16 |
| baijum | Theuni, cann't we host it any ZF servers ? may be you have to ask faasen | 11:17 |
| Theuni | it's not about the hardware | 11:17 |
| Theuni | the hardware will be fine | 11:17 |
| Theuni | it has lots of disk space and the server isn't too busy | 11:17 |
| Theuni | it's more the delicate setup | 11:17 |
| Theuni | buildbot tends to fall apart when you stop looking | 11:17 |
| baijum | ah. ok, anyway a buildbot.zope.org would be a better domain | 11:19 |
| Theuni | that's already a different kind of buildbot ;) | 11:20 |
| Theuni | you can make a domain point to this server though | 11:20 |
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| baijum | Theuni, ah. that would be a good option, can you send details required for DNS setup to zope-web list, I think Jens Vagelpohl is the one who helping out with zope.org domains | 11:27 |
| Theuni | let's wait a few days before doing that | 11:28 |
| Theuni | i want to get some feedback first, but i'm happy you like it | 11:29 |
| baijum | ah. ok | 11:29 |
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| jayaraj | can any one help me ....i found this line of code in worldcookery example...."camefrom = request.get('camefrom' , '.' )" 'camefrom' is a hidden attribute in the form. wot does the '.' means??? | 14:46 |
| bigkevmcd | well...what happens if you redirect to "." ? | 14:47 |
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| jayaraj | i dont know...the next line is to redirect to 'camefrom'. but i dont understand the syntax of the get function | 14:51 |
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| bigkevmcd | jayaraj: request has a dictionary like interface, and get is a method of dictionaries | 14:52 |
| jayaraj | bigkevmcd: ic thank you! now i can figure it out... i thought '.' is given a special meaning or somthing... | 14:54 |
| bigkevmcd | jayaraj: it's the value to use if the dictionary lookup fails | 14:54 |
| jayaraj | bigkevmcd: mmm i checked the value is of comefrom after the get, it was nothing. and i found the tal statement in the .pt file which sets comefrom to nothing | 14:56 |
| jayaraj | bigkevmcd: so it makes sense now... | 14:57 |
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| pyqwer | Hi, I wonder if it's possible to reduce the size of my objects in the ZODB? | 17:05 |
| pyqwer | When I do a len(pickle.dumps(myobj)), it has ~ 100kB, when I add my object to the ZODB via Zope3, it has appr. 3 Megabytes. | 17:06 |
| pyqwer | Why does this happen? | 17:06 |
| srichter | pyqwer: you can only do this by (1) use more persistent sub-objects and (2) use shorter module names | 17:06 |
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| mgedmin | pyqwer: where are you adding the object? | 17:07 |
| pyqwer | mgedmin: Well, simply to a container object, e.g. a BTree. | 17:08 |
| mgedmin | if you are sticking it into some other nonpersistentent object that's already 2.9 megs big, you'll get a 3 meg increase | 17:08 |
| mgedmin | btree should be fine | 17:08 |
| mgedmin | is your object persistent? if no, you're increasing the size of the zodb by the size of a single btree bucket full of your objects | 17:08 |
| mgedmin | if yes, then you're increasing the size by the size of a single bucket full of persistent references + the size of your new object | 17:09 |
| pyqwer | Hmmm, I don't really get it - yes, my object is persistent, if not, I probably could not store it in the ZODB? | 17:09 |
| mgedmin | you could, but... | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | *sigh* | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | there must be some zodb tutorial that I once read to understand everything | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | but I've lost the link | 17:11 |
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| pyqwer | mgedmin: Yes, I have some documentation, I'll have a look into it. | 17:17 |
| pyqwer | mgedmin: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/guide/zodb.html | 17:18 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: "nonpersistent" in the above context means "an instance that does not inherit from the Persistent base class" | 17:25 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: Yes, I thought so, but I did not know that it's even possible to store objects in ZODB that do not inherit from Persistent. | 17:25 |
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| mcdonc | pyqwer: sure... lists... dictionaries... etc.. and instances of things that don't inherit from Persistent can be added too, but they just have the behavior that those "basic" types do. | 17:26 |
| pyqwer | So, all I did was to let all classes inherit from persistent.Persistent and use only PersistentMapping/PersistentList in my program. | 17:27 |
| pyqwer | But - when I just need a non-permanent objects, they probably don't need to inherit from Persistent? | 17:27 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: PersistentList/PersistentMapping are "convenience" things... if you add items to them that themselves do not inherit from Persistent, they'll happily store them, but their own object record in the database is the cumulative size of all of these then | 17:29 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: as long as you don't attach those "non-permanent" objects to a persistent object anywhere... | 17:29 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: Yes, but that's ok for strings/ints etc., I assume? | 17:30 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: What I wonder so much is that if I do a pickle.dumps(myobj) it has ~ 100kb, while the ZODB increases by 3MB. | 17:30 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: should be... although commonly people use the XXBTree variants to store large sets... e.g. IOBTree, IIBTree, OOBTree, etc | 17:30 |
| pyqwer | That should never happen, should it? | 17:30 |
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| mcdonc | pyqwer: well, the transaction size will be be (roughly) sizeof(myobj) + sizeof(thingyoureattachingmyobto) if myob doesnt inherit from Persistent | 17:32 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: Hmmm, and what happens if I do a commit()? | 17:33 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: it commits? | 17:33 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: Yes, but does it not delete the old objects? | 17:33 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: which old objects? | 17:33 |
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| pyqwer | mcdonc: The objects that were stored so that a rollback() can be performed, some kind of "backup" objects. | 17:34 |
| mcdonc | do you mean "will the database size decrease when i delete or replace an object"? if so, the answer is no (at least for FileStorage).. all writes are appends... | 17:35 |
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| pyqwer | Ah, ok, so that may be the reason: In my situation, I create an object and then modify it over and over. | 17:35 |
| pyqwer | So, in fact, the "older" objects are kept, that's the reason for the huge database increase. | 17:36 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: ah ok... yeah if you reduce the number of commits you should be better... | 17:36 |
| ignas | every modification if it is performed in a separate request (transaction) adds the 100kb to the ZODB | 17:36 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: the storage size decreases when you do a pack (think postgres "vacuum") | 17:36 |
| pyqwer | Ah, ok, now I get it. | 17:37 |
| pyqwer | And I looked at the database and it seemed as if my object grew up to 3MB while there are ~ 100 of my objects. | 17:37 |
| ignas | pyqwer: i think when I had these problems i had to move some bigger attributes to separate objects | 17:37 |
| ignas | pyqwer: like - if you had an attribute that contains pdf | 17:38 |
| ignas | and are modifying another attribute like "title" a lot | 17:38 |
| ignas | it will make sense to move the pdf into a persistent wrapper object | 17:38 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: one useful doodad is "tranalyzer"... it shows you transaction content against a FileStorage file... | 17:38 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: Interesting, I'll have a look. | 17:38 |
| ignas | pyqwer: so when title get's modified only the reference to the PDFWrapper will get copied not the whole pdf | 17:38 |
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| pyqwer | ignas: Ah, I see. I think a will be able to handly my problem now. | 17:39 |
| pyqwer | Btw., what's the "vacuum" command for ZODB? | 17:39 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: in fact, as long as you don't pack, you can "undo" by truncating a filestorage file between transactions (although there's no redo then)... and even if you mess up, even if you get close, filestorage will handle it on the next startup and fix itself | 17:40 |
| pyqwer | (using "debugzope") | 17:40 |
| ignas | either debugzope or zope application management views | 17:40 |
| pyqwer | And - is the pack() command efficient? | 17:40 |
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| ignas | can't recall where they are situated by default though, something like ++server++/ | 17:40 |
| ignas | maybe | 17:40 |
| pyqwer | ignas: Ah, ok, and for debugzope? Something like "from packing import pack", "pack()"? | 17:41 |
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| mcdonc | pyqwer: See ZODB.DB.DB's "pack" method | 17:41 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: Great, thanks. | 17:41 |
| mcdonc | and no, it's not particularly efficient... not recommended during "normal" operations | 17:42 |
| ignas | ++etc++process/ | 17:42 |
| pyqwer | mcdonc: Ok, so, for packing a ZODB having some gigabytes will take some time. | 17:42 |
| mcdonc | pyqwer: yup, it does a mark and sweep (like old-style Java GC) | 17:43 |
| ignas | pyqwer: look at "zope.app.applicationcontrol.browser.zodbcontrol.ZODBControlView" | 17:43 |
| ignas | pyqwer: for an example of ZODB packing | 17:43 |
| ignas | pyqwer: it's the way Zope3 does it through the web UI | 17:43 |
| pyqwer | ignas: Ok, I'll have a look at it. | 17:44 |
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| mgedmin | http://zopebuildbot.whq.gocept.com/ is nice | 18:31 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I agree; I want that code :-) | 18:31 |
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| mgedmin | z3c.gibberish is an interesting package name | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | z3c.coverage test fails because enscript is not installed on the build machine | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | I think it might be better to switch it to use pygments instead and add that as the egg dependency | 18:32 |
| srichter | z3c.coverage: I saw that too | 18:33 |
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| srichter | mgedmin: pygments did not do XML when I tried it, but I guess that's irrelevant for z3c.coverage | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | all z3c.coverage needs is python -> html colorization | 18:34 |
| srichter | right | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | hm, zope.component tests fail? | 18:35 |
| srichter | mgedmin: in a bad way too | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | ImportError: thread? | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | but that's a stdlib module | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | how can there not be one? | 18:37 |
| srichter | right, I was just wondering about that too | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | can repro: bin/py 'import zope.security.zcml' fails with the same error | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | the traceback shows a nonexistent filename | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | /home/mg/src/zope.component/eggs/tmpc0SDk1/zope.security-3.4.0-py2.5-linux-i686.egg/zope/security/management.py | 18:42 |
| * mgedmin hates the persons or tools responsible | 18:42 | |
| mgedmin | ah, right, the magic fix is "find -name '*.pyc'|xargs rm" | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | it appears that zope.security forgot to depend on zope.thread? | 18:43 |
| srichter | huh | 18:44 |
| srichter | he he | 18:44 |
| projekt01 | mgedmin, are you on py 2.5? | 18:44 |
| srichter | oh, so that's what it is importing | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | I don't know | 18:44 |
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| mgedmin | could be | 18:44 |
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| mgedmin | so, if zope.security.management does 'import zope.thread', then zope.security/setup.py should install_requires=[..., 'zope.thread', ...], no? | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | currently it doesn't | 18:46 |
| srichter | yes | 18:47 |
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| mgedmin | ok, this is something I don't understand | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | if zope.security doesn't directly depend on zope.thread, why do I get eggs/zope.thread if I run bin/buildout in zope.security? | 18:56 |
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| mgedmin | ok, zope.app.component requires zope.thread | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | a bunch of zope.app.* require zope.app.component | 19:01 |
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| mgedmin | ok | 19:03 |
| mgedmin | zope.security requires zope.location, which requires zope.traversing which requires zope.app.testing which requires zope.app.component which requires zope.thread | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | threrefore zope.security requires zope.thread | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | or should | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | why then doesn't zope.component's buildout get zope.thread when it gets zope.security? | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | different version pinning? | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | hm | 19:05 |
| edgordon | is there some sort of z3 equivalent to getAuthenticatedMember. I need to change a vocabulary based on the logged in user, and don't have the request available in the vocab init | 19:05 |
| mgedmin | aha! | 19:06 |
| afd_ | edgordon: this is covered in the faq | 19:06 |
| afd_ | let me search the relevant info for you | 19:06 |
| mgedmin | zope.app.testing is only needed for zope.traversing[test] | 19:06 |
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| afd_ | edgordon: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/FAQProgramming#how-do-i-get-irequest-object-in-event-handler | 19:07 |
| afd_ | then you can do request.principal | 19:07 |
| edgordon | thanks | 19:07 |
| * mgedmin commits zope.security fix | 19:08 | |
| mgedmin | does anyone want to make a release of zope.security to fix zope.component's buildbot problem? | 19:08 |
| mgedmin | same problem affects zope.i18n | 19:10 |
| mgedmin | wow, zope.kgs test is wonderful | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | http://zopebuildbot.whq.gocept.com/builders/zope.kgs/builds/12/steps/test/logs/stdio | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | I'm not even going to try to fix it | 19:12 |
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| mgedmin | zope.server fails because of the same zope.security bug | 19:12 |
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| rocky | so zope3 trunk now runs on python2.5 properly? | 21:19 |
| J1m | no | 21:19 |
| J1m | not that I'm aware of | 21:19 |
| mgedmin | what's missing? | 21:19 |
| J1m | I don't know. | 21:20 |
| mgedmin | wasn't it a last year's google of code summer task? | 21:20 |
| J1m | I don't know if it was finished. | 21:20 |
| mgedmin | s/google of code summer/google's summer of code/ | 21:20 |
| J1m | but, pretend I didn't say anything. :) | 21:20 |
| J1m | maybe it works | 21:20 |
| J1m | who knows :) | 21:20 |
| mgedmin | let's call it "not officially guaranteed to work" then | 21:21 |
| srichter | yes, as far as I know all packages were verified to work with Python 2.5 | 21:24 |
| srichter | and I am 99% sure we released all packages since its completion | 21:25 |
| srichter | I should run the KGS tests against Python2.5 to make sure | 21:25 |
| mgedmin | srichter: you're a release guru, mind releasing zope.security 3.4.1? | 21:26 |
| mgedmin | 3.4.0 has a missing dependency on zope.thread | 21:26 |
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| srichter | mgedmin: already on my to do list; I saw your mail; I am just really, really busy; bug me, if I do not get to it in the next days | 21:27 |
| mgedmin | ok | 21:27 |
| J1m | Interesting. | 21:30 |
| J1m | BTW, has anyone done any perforamnce comparisons of 2.5 v 2.4. | 21:30 |
| J1m | For some reason, the file-storage packing code runs much slower with python 2.5. | 21:30 |
| J1m | I guess there is another potential problem with going to 2.5 before zoep 2 is ready as we'll undoubtably start creating packages that won't work in zope 2 otherwise. | 21:32 |
| srichter | J1m: I'll make sure that Zope 3.4 final is Python 2.4 compatible | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | buildbots for both 2.4 and 2.5 would be nice | 21:34 |
| mgedmin | I suppose pov could set up a buildbot slave on a core 2 duo (linux, 64-bit) machine | 21:35 |
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| hazmat | rocky, i use z3 with py2.5 primarily | 21:52 |
| hazmat | it works fine for me.. ymmv | 21:53 |
| hazmat | i can't address file-storage speed issue... not using it | 21:54 |
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