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| regebro | Morning all. Just a wild idea: Should there be a Zope conference? | 10:29 |
|---|---|---|
| regebro | I mean, there is to few Zope people at PyCon/EuroPython, and the Plone Conference is.... well. PLone. | 10:30 |
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| regebro | I'm asking here before I blog about it, because maybe it's a really stupid idea for some reason. :) | 10:30 |
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| ktwilight_ | regebro, would be great if there's a zope conference :) | 11:22 |
| baijum | regebro, +1 for a "Zope Conference" | 11:36 |
| regebro | Cool, so far so good. :) | 11:37 |
| timte | regebro: hmm, you added me on twitter, that is just a test twitter though, I never use it :) | 11:38 |
| regebro | timte: OK. :) | 11:38 |
| regebro | That just means I won't see any updates, so. :) | 11:41 |
| timte | regebro: just so you don't get dissapointed when you wonder why you don't get to know what timte is doing every other hour :) | 11:43 |
| regebro | no pb. :) | 11:43 |
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| benji_ | zagy, you seem to be having problems :) | 15:36 |
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| zagy | argh | 15:38 |
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| zagy | hope that's stable now :/ | 15:39 |
| zagy | sorry for the traffic | 15:39 |
| benji | heh; no problem | 15:40 |
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| jayaraj | hi guys is there any way to know in which .fs (or the zodb name) an object is stored? i am in the middle of a prototype illustrating the multiple db files in zope3... | 15:49 |
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| timte | jayaraj: do you use zeo? | 15:52 |
| jayaraj | nope | 15:52 |
| jayaraj | and wot if i use zeo? | 15:52 |
| timte | out of the box zope only uses one Data.fs file | 15:53 |
| timte | do you use mount points? | 15:53 |
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| jayaraj | AFAIK in zope3 we dont need mount points | 15:54 |
| jayaraj | its a zope2 thing | 15:54 |
| timte | jayaraj: then, what .fs are you talking about? | 15:54 |
| jayaraj | i have configured another in my zope.conf | 15:55 |
| jayaraj | like... | 15:55 |
| jayaraj | oh currently i am using zeo... thats right | 15:56 |
| jayaraj | but i need to try multiple .fs without zeo | 15:57 |
| timte | without zeo you can only have one | 15:58 |
| jayaraj | timte are you sure? :( | 15:58 |
| timte | jayaraj: what are you trying to achieve? | 15:59 |
| jayaraj | my plan is to get rid of zeo... and will be using the data.fs over nfs | 15:59 |
| bigkevmcd | to what benefit? | 16:00 |
| jayaraj | fault tolerance! | 16:00 |
| benji | jayaraj: that... will likely be painful | 16:00 |
| benji | as to your original question, here's how you find the name of the DB an object is stored in: obj._p_jar.db().database_name | 16:01 |
| jayaraj | even if we have identical multiple zeo clients zeo server is a one point | 16:02 |
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| jayaraj | yea i have been looking at persistance module.. so i was in the right dirrection thank you benji | 16:03 |
| timte | I'm not sure what solutions there are for fault tolerance. But perhaps geocept.ZEORaid would be something. | 16:05 |
| benji | jayaraj: if you need hot backups of your ZODB(s), you should look into ZRS and (the still very, very new) zeoraid | 16:05 |
| benji | jayaraj: oh, and there's the ever-popular rsync-the-Data.fs-once-in-a-while | 16:07 |
| jayaraj | i am looking for the options i can have | 16:08 |
| bigkevmcd | I guess it's not for very big Data.fs files? | 16:08 |
| jayaraj | and dont you feel ... that a zeo server is vulnerable to crash ? | 16:09 |
| benji | jayaraj: no more (or less) than any other machine; that's why I use ZRS ;) | 16:09 |
| timte | of course it is, but it's very rare and you take backups | 16:09 |
| timte | and if you cache most of your pages anonymous will see your site even if the backend is down | 16:10 |
| timte | so you need to have high demands if you need to replicate | 16:10 |
| benji | bigkevmcd: rsync? I don't use it much so don't know much about its limitations, just including it because I hear of people using it for this purpose | 16:11 |
| bigkevmcd | rsync is great | 16:11 |
| bigkevmcd | but, loading large Data.fs files over NFS wouldn't be much fun | 16:11 |
| jayaraj | ZRS is not open source! | 16:11 |
| ktwilight_ | bigkevmcd, why's that? | 16:11 |
| benji | bigkevmcd: regarding NFS, very true | 16:11 |
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| benji | jayaraj: I know, my company sells it ;) | 16:12 |
| jayaraj | :) | 16:12 |
| jayaraj | why NFS is not good to handle big D.fs | 16:14 |
| timte | takes forever | 16:15 |
| zagy | jayaraj: also, how would you let multiple zope clients use the data.fs? | 16:15 |
| timte | copying data over network takes a while, even copying on the harddirsk is slow | 16:15 |
| ktwilight_ | timte, on a 100mbit port? any optimisations made? | 16:15 |
| jayaraj | yea i see some locking problems... | 16:16 |
| bigkevmcd | ZEO handles the locking for you | 16:16 |
| jayaraj | yea thats right | 16:17 |
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| * zagy still wonders what the problem with zeo is | 16:17 | |
| zagy | I even use zeo if the database is on the very same server | 16:17 |
| jayaraj | zagy how can we assure fault tolerance with one instances of zeo server | 16:20 |
| zagy | how can we assure fault tolerance with one instance of nfs server? | 16:20 |
| jayaraj | bingo ..good questine | 16:21 |
| bigkevmcd | this sounds like a brave attempt at overarchitecting a solution | 16:21 |
| ktwilight_ | nfs is just a simple system that has many shortcomings | 16:22 |
| ktwilight_ | our goal is to build a cluster as a failover solution. nfs doesn't provide it per se, but glusterfs (a system similar to nfs) can be the solution, and that's what we are trying to test | 16:23 |
| jayaraj | well let us be optimistic...is there any way to have multiple zeo server to handle same data.fs | 16:23 |
| zagy | you *can't* use multiple zopes on one data.fs at teh same time | 16:23 |
| zagy | for fault tolerance there use ZRS or try zeoraid | 16:23 |
| zagy | or just make frequent backups with a hotfailover | 16:24 |
| ktwilight_ | yup, those are definitely considered. | 16:24 |
| bigkevmcd | ktwilight_: are you and jayaraj working on the same thing? | 16:24 |
| ktwilight_ | bigkevmcd, yup ;) | 16:24 |
| bigkevmcd | ahhh... | 16:25 |
| jayaraj | yea | 16:25 |
| jayaraj | :) | 16:25 |
| bigkevmcd | I'd setup a failover Zeo server, that was synchronising the data.fs from the primary zeo server | 16:25 |
| bigkevmcd | use a shared-ip, and have the zeo clients connect to that | 16:25 |
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| jayaraj | that sounds good | 16:26 |
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| benji | you can specify more than one zeo server for a DB and all will be tried, no need for shared IP | 16:27 |
| ktwilight_ | benji, yup, that's also considered | 16:27 |
| jayaraj | but syncing is expensive when the db is large | 16:27 |
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| benji | true, moving lots of data is expensive; it's best to keep it continuously synced | 16:29 |
| ktwilight_ | :) | 16:29 |
| bigkevmcd | jayaraj: rsync minimises the data | 16:29 |
| jayaraj | mmm | 16:29 |
| timte | so you should go with ZRS, right benji? :) | 16:29 |
| benji | timte: if I had important data and even a little bit of money | 16:30 |
| bigkevmcd | if you've got the budget, a shared disk would be good, as long as the secondary zeo server does a STONITH | 16:30 |
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| jayaraj | so syncronization is the only way.... and we may need to come up with an effective soln for that.... | 16:40 |
| benji | "only" is a strong word, but without knowing much more about your needs, it's the most obvious thing to do | 16:43 |
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| ktwilight_ | benji, spot on :) | 16:48 |
| bigkevmcd | How big is the Data.fs currently? | 16:48 |
| ktwilight_ | we havent got that far yet, but we are expecting over 500GB | 16:50 |
| bigkevmcd | Based upon what metrics? | 16:51 |
| ktwilight_ | on the metrics that we've found, of course. | 16:52 |
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| benji | heh | 16:52 |
| ktwilight_ | we'll be harvesting a lot of data, it's part of our needs | 16:52 |
| ktwilight_ | maybe we are over-estimating, but we should at least be prepared, rather than sitting in the dark hitting walls in the future. | 16:53 |
| benji | ktwilight_: if any of the individual data items are going to be very large, you'll probably want to check out the blob support in the up-coming ZODB 3.9 release | 16:53 |
| ktwilight_ | hence the whole experiments that we are doing. | 16:53 |
| J1m | benji, blobs are available in 3.8. | 16:54 |
| ktwilight_ | benji, great! thanks for the heads up :) | 16:54 |
| benji | J1m: oh, really? didn't know | 16:54 |
| J1m | yes | 16:54 |
| benji | oh, I'm thinking of the new pack code | 16:54 |
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| ktwilight_ | another main concern is, it's possible that zodb will not be able to cater to our needs for metadata storage and proecssing. which we may need to use other database types like vertica | 16:56 |
| ktwilight_ | so yea, lots of considerations are in the pipeline :) | 16:57 |
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| vimes656 | is it possible in Zope3 to access an item of a container directly from ZPT? | 17:47 |
| vimes656 | if I try context/key in ZPT I get forbidden attribute: get | 17:49 |
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| ccomb | vimes656 you're probably missing a permission on IReadContainer | 17:55 |
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| malthe | wth Upload failed (403): You are not allowed to edit 'z3c.formwidget.query' package information | 18:06 |
| malthe | tarek: do you know what this means? | 18:09 |
| malthe | I'm using ``mupload``. | 18:09 |
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| vimes656 | ccomb: thanks, now I don't get the forbidden attribute error but I still can't do what I want | 18:14 |
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| vimes656 | ccomb: I would something like container/a/b to be container['a'].b | 18:16 |
| vimes656 | ccomb: have to read more about ZPT syntax or use a python expression | 18:17 |
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| ignas | vimes656: emm, do you have <class> in the zcml for the object you are trying to access "b" on? | 18:20 |
| vimes656 | ignas: no... I have only the container | 18:21 |
| ignas | it probably is not a zpt problem, but rather a permission problem, forbiden attributes are thrown when you are trying to access an attribute that has no security information defined for it | 18:21 |
| ignas | <disclaimer>i can be totaly wrong though</disclaimer> | 18:21 |
| vimes656 | ignas: actually I didn't want to make interfaces for the objects in the container because I have too many objects | 18:23 |
| vimes656 | ignas: is it possible to declare permissions in zcml for object which don't have interfaces? | 18:24 |
| ignas | vimes656: yes, you will have to list all the attributes you want to allow access to though | 18:25 |
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| vimes656 | ignas: ok, I'll try | 18:26 |
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| vimes656 | ignas: I did as you told me and it's working, thanks | 18:52 |
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| tarek | malthe, back | 19:24 |
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| malthe | tarek: so it's quite funny | 19:24 |
| tarek | looks like your are not the package owner | 19:24 |
| malthe | if you put, say, Alpha instead of Beta in your setup.py, --- you get a 403. | 19:25 |
| malthe | in the classification section | 19:25 |
| malthe | because appearently alpha is not a state or whatever | 19:25 |
| malthe | completely misleading error; I only knew because I tried manually to register my PKG_INFO on pypi | 19:25 |
| tarek | oh i see, the classifier did not exists | 19:26 |
| tarek | ? | 19:26 |
| malthe | yeah that's it | 19:26 |
| malthe | it's a first upload, so I would always be the owner. | 19:26 |
| tarek | PyPI is hard on this, it raises an error yeah | 19:26 |
| malthe | yes, but a completely wrong error | 19:26 |
| malthe | someone probably put a bare except | 19:26 |
| tarek | oh I see | 19:27 |
| tarek | maybe so | 19:27 |
| tarek | I am trying to make this change to a simple warning although | 19:27 |
| tarek | so the package gets registered and the given classifier ignored | 19:27 |
| malthe | yeah | 19:27 |
| tarek | so does mupload/mregister works fine, besides ? | 19:27 |
| * mgedmin hates vocabularies | 19:28 | |
| malthe | mgedmin: :-) | 19:28 |
| malthe | tarek: yes, works great | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | what do you mean I can't put the same value twice under different titles and tokens? | 19:28 |
| malthe | I use it always | 19:28 |
| * mgedmin screams | 19:28 | |
| * mgedmin screams abuse | 19:28 | |
| mgedmin | well, I guess there's a good reason | 19:29 |
| tarek | malthe, cool ! my patch is still waiting for being included in python 2.6 but hopefully mupload and mregister will be merged in the regular commands one day | 19:29 |
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| malthe | that will be a good day in python land | 19:29 |
| tarek | malthe, do you use another egg server beside pypi at this time ? | 19:30 |
| malthe | yes, we have an internal egg server here | 19:30 |
| malthe | works very well with PSC | 19:30 |
| tarek | ok | 19:30 |
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| tarek | I have an extra "release" command in another package that decides, upon the egg name where to register and upload it (a list of pypi server, using a regexpr) | 19:32 |
| tarek | so the same package can be released in several place in one command | 19:32 |
| tarek | do you think this could be useful, added in iw.dist ? | 19:32 |
| tarek | the idea is to define rules in a global cfg file, to define where thing goes | 19:33 |
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| jayaraj | hey guys can any one tell me wots wrong in this code... i was trying to access multiple dbs ..http://rafb.net/p/aWH9G018.html | 19:46 |
| jayaraj | http://rafb.net/p/aWH9G018.html | 19:46 |
| jayaraj | i get this.... 'InvalidObjectReference: A new object is reachable from multiple databases. Won't try to guess which one was correct!' wot does it mean... | 19:47 |
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| ignas | jayaraj: so you get site manager from connection1, then add folder from connection2 to the site manager | 19:55 |
| jayaraj | i am just trying to make a folder in db '2' and register it as a utility | 19:58 |
| ignas | as a local utility | 19:58 |
| jayaraj | yea | 19:58 |
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| ignas | so in db1 you have a reference to an object in db2 | 19:58 |
| ignas | either add a proxy object in db1 that will be the real local utility while retrieving folder from db2 by name instead of by reference | 19:59 |
| jayaraj | but it happens only when i register it ... but the error is in the get_connection line | 20:00 |
| ignas | siteManager is an object, and it has to keep references to all the local utilities one way or another | 20:00 |
| ignas | why do you think so? | 20:00 |
| ignas | i can't see the get_connection line in the traceback | 20:00 |
| jayaraj | i commented rest of the lines and tested it | 20:01 |
| ignas | you get the error during the commit | 20:01 |
| jayaraj | yea thats true too | 20:01 |
| ignas | i think you are getting the connection in some weird way | 20:02 |
| ignas | did you find it in the documentation? | 20:02 |
| ignas | maybe getUtility(IDatabase, name="2") | 20:03 |
| jayaraj | yea i have looked at the IRC chat history... and i followed wot j1m said to srichter http://zope3.pov.lt/irclogs/%23zope3-dev.2007-10-01.log.html | 20:03 |
| ignas | would be a bit better | 20:03 |
| ignas | but i don't really know anything about that | 20:05 |
| jayaraj | yea in another conversation i saw him saying conn.get_connection('2') is the right way | 20:05 |
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| ignas | hmm, it seems that this way of doing it updates the db connections of the object | 20:05 |
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| jayaraj | ignas http://apidoc.zope.org/++apidoc++/Book/zodb/crossref/show.html | 20:07 |
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| ignas | hmm, very strange | 20:11 |
| ignas | but i am not really sure why just opening the connection number 2 breaks it | 20:11 |
| jayaraj | yea i just dont get any idea | 20:12 |
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| jayaraj | J1m, is there any thing wrong in this... i am just trying to connect to anoter db... http://rafb.net/p/aWH9G018.html | 20:21 |
| J1m | there error message says it all. Read it. If it's too confusing, don't use multiple databases. | 20:22 |
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| ignas | jayaraj: you should remove the code that is not being executed | 20:24 |
| ignas | J1m: his problem is that even if he is not adding any objects, he still gets the error it seems | 20:25 |
| J1m | That is impossible. | 20:25 |
| jayaraj | but its wots happening with me | 20:25 |
| ignas | i thought so but jayaraj is telling that he is getting the error with only the code that does get_connection('2') | 20:26 |
| J1m | Obviouslu, he;s wrong. | 20:27 |
| J1m | look at the trace back. | 20:27 |
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| ignas | jayaraj: are you restarting your application after you remove the lines after get_connection? | 20:28 |
| jayaraj | of course... i even removed the old db.fs files | 20:29 |
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| jayaraj | http://rafb.net/p/yRUEgd23.html | 20:39 |
| jayaraj | ignas ^ | 20:39 |
| ignas | what is the context of the view ? | 20:40 |
| jayaraj | yea mean the obj? | 20:40 |
| jayaraj | you* | 20:40 |
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| ignas | the object you are registering the debug view for | 20:41 |
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| jayaraj | yea its a browserpage object | 20:42 |
| ignas | no, not the view itself | 20:42 |
| ignas | could you paste the zcml declaration for the view | 20:42 |
| ignas | lisppaste6: url | 20:43 |
| lisppaste6 | To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/zope3-dev and enter your paste. | 20:43 |
| ignas | it's a bit more convenient, because it puts the url into the channel automatically | 20:44 |
| jayaraj | ignas, i think its some where else.... and its very late... bye 4 now thanks alot... and will be telling you if i find it... | 21:00 |
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| regebro | Take the Zope conference survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=1QRKEu8eTs2gNjiYPOCsBA_3d_3d | 22:31 |
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| J1m | regebro, I hope lots of people respond! | 22:48 |
| J1m | I did. | 22:48 |
| regebro | J1m: Cool! | 22:49 |
| regebro | I got 20 responses so far. It's a free account, so I can only take a 100 responses anyway. :) | 22:49 |
| regebro | If I get 50 I think we can say that it's a useful size to draw good conclusions. | 22:50 |
| J1m | I should have added in the comments that I'd prefer a dedicated conference to a separate track. I tend to think of the Plone conference as a dedicated Zope conference. :) | 22:53 |
| J1m | separate track at pycon, that is. | 22:53 |
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