IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-03-16

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planetzopebotTips for Greenlighting a Framework (plope)
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new2can i get example codes for user registration and file upload07:36
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wreinerhi! I've got an old zope installation (2.8.7) with python 2.3.4 but now have to move to a newer machine with python 2.4.3. as mentioned in the release notes of 2.8 it is only recommended to use python 2.3.4 or 2.3.5. so my question: is it safe to update zope to a newer version like 2.10.9 used in red hat el?10:56
betabugwreiner: you have 2 options:10:58
betabug- install python 2.3.x alongside the machine installed 2.4 (which is no problem at all for python, in fact lots of people recommend installing a python for zope's use anyway)10:59
koshtest the software on a newer zope release10:59
koshif it works use that10:59
betabug- test the software (zope products) on a newer zope10:59
betabugand as kosh said, use that - which is the preferred way, as 2.8 is pretty old10:59
wreineryeah i know. i was wondering if there are known issues in such an update :)11:00
wreinerso thanks to both of you. i'll try the update way11:00
koshbetabug: I actually used your witch thing today for some of my cluster stuff11:02
betabughope it worked :-)11:02
koshbetabug: since error_log is not shared I needed to generate something liek and still have it go to the zope root just a specfic instance11:02
koshyeah it worked out fine11:02
betabugwreiner: it mostly depends on the installed products11:02
koshtrying to do it myself I kept getting the entry wrong11:03
betabugwreiner: if you have plone installed, seek counsel!11:03
betabugkosh: that was the reason for making the witch, those pesky details that I kept getting wrong because I wasn't doing that stuff every day11:03
koshnow I am just going to make a tiny python product which has for its manage a frame that has a line for Control Panel and another for error_log that does etc etc11:05
koshthat way someone can use the web interface to restart any server and check the error_log11:05
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wreinerbetabug: not sure about plone but i hope not :) thank you11:06
koshif you fine plone is involved11:07
koshgo get a case of wiskey11:07
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koshbetabug: what else would you recommend?11:09
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wreinerkosh: hehe :D11:09
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wreinerplone is not installed as package so i hope it's not used :)11:10
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betabugkosh: depending on what they need, just a link to restart, pack, error_log each11:15
betabugin case of plohn, I'd recommend a shrink11:15
koshbetabug: only need to pack in one since it is zeo so that part is easy11:15
koshbetabug: but I meant for wreiner what else do you recommend beyond whiskey if plone is involved?11:16
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betabugah, yeah11:49
betabuga shrink with a quick hand to prescribe strong medics11:49
betabugthe pain will be huge11:49
wreineri didn't find anything that says plone. so the hope still lives :)11:50
betabuggood :-)11:50
betabugyou should be able to have a look in the Products directory of the instance11:51
wreineryes. there is no plone directory11:51
betabugare there a lot of products? maybe you want to put the listing of that directory on a pastebin?11:52
* kosh hands out drinks to celebrate11:52
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betabughmmm, that PHParser thing is suspicious11:56
betabugLocalFS probably needs an updated version, maybe a patch too, depending on what you upgrade to11:56
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betabugsame with ZMySQLDA - gotta find the latest version11:57
betabugthe other SQL-related ones I've got no clue about11:57
betabugCustomer + Customer2 are probably custom built - you can only try to upgrade and see what happens11:57
betabugif they're well built, there should be no problem11:57
betabugExternalEditor, just check to get the latest version, but should be non-critical11:58
betabugno idea what SetTag is11:58
wreinerperhaps its easier to install python in a lower version11:59
betabugit depends on your future plans11:59
betabugwith 2.8 there will be no more bugfixes, if there are any problems, you're on your own12:00
betabugif you go to 2.12 or at least to 2.10 or 2.11, you're up-to-date for the next time12:00
wreineri'll surely give the update a try12:01
betabugdepends also on how much time you have to try it out12:01
wreinerbut u know - time is running out :)12:01
betabugfirst hunt for the latest versions where I've mentioned them12:01
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wreinerhehe ZMySQLDA latest was released '1978-12-31 00:00:00' :D12:10
wreinerearly adopters :D12:11
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Rook-hey folks - does SOAPpy support connecting over SSL with a .pem cert/key file?  I see that historically it hasn't, just wondered if it does now.14:47
betabugRook-: a have a feeling that you're asking in the wrong channel14:48
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Rook-oh yea?  I thought that soappy was part of zope14:50
Rook-is there a zope developers channel?14:51
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betabug - there is stuff like "patches for integrating into zope", so I don't think it's part of zope14:52
betabughmmm, dunno if #zope3-dev is still alive14:52
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Rook-ah ok fair enough - thanks14:54
betabugnp :-)14:54
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trollfotHi !16:24
LeoRochaeltrollfot: Hi Souheil16:25
trollfotI missed the meeting ?16:25
LeoRochaeltrollfot: if you did, I missed it too :-)16:26
trollfothah :)16:26
trollfothey LeoRochael :) Everything's fine ?16:26
LeoRochaelI'm expecting it to begin in 30m16:26
LeoRochaeltrollfot: yes, for some definition of "fine" where I get this constant feeling that I'm forgetting something important16:27
LeoRochaeltrollfot: then again, I'm preparing my marriage, of the traditional "church+party+losts of guests" type16:28
LeoRochaelso the feeling is supposed to be expected, I guess16:28
trollfotLeoRochael: yeah, i guess. Stressful period :)16:28
LeoRochaeltrollfot: did I tell you I'm moving to France?16:29
trollfotLeoRochael: to Lille ?16:29
LeoRochaeltrollfot: yep16:30
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mcdoncwoot for daylight savings time16:45
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* Theuni1 waves16:59
* Theuni1 rushed to get a coffee16:59
mcdoncooh coffeee16:59
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Theuni1alright, let's go17:02
Theuni1who's alive?17:02
* LeoRochael raises hand17:02
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LeoRochaeltrollfot was alive some time ago17:03
Theuni1So, here's today's agenda again:
trollfotI am17:03
Theuni1I'd like to keep the test runner discussion short for today as there's work with progress, so we can let that finish.17:04
Theuni1do3cc: good you're there17:04
Theuni1do3cc volunteered as manager for automated build systems17:04
trollfotyay for do3cc17:04
mcdoncthank you do3cc17:04
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Theuni1do3cc: i suggest that we can have a phone call or something, so I can dump my brain into yours without typing so much and you can tell me what you're up to. does that sound good?17:05
Theuni1ok, cool17:05
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do3ccyou have our number, right?17:05
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Theuni1i do.17:05
Theuni1tres told me he won't be around today17:05
Theuni1but he contacted microsoft about the free compiler last week17:06
Theuni1hasn't gotten any response so far.17:06
Theuni1the foundation board meets next week, maybe we'll get a decision then, we'll see.17:06
Theuni1hannosch, sidnei: i guess you'll need some time until the AMI arrives anyway, right?17:06
sidneiTheuni1, haven't had time so far17:07
Theuni1no pressure. just checking whether we're in sync :)17:07
Theuni1you explicitly said it's going to take time. i respect that. :)17:07
Theuni1That's what I wanted to talk about WRT testing/builds. Does anyone else want to talk about anything urgent WRT testing/builds right now?17:08
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do3ccshould the summary of buildbot status be displayed somewhere within
do3ccor is mail to zope-tests enough?17:09
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Theuni1At some point a dashboard would be nice, but honestly I'd improve the usage of the test aggregator for now.17:09
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mgedminspeaking of mail to zope-tests, anybody have a buildbot configuration snippet?17:09
Theuni1As hudson might come into play that issue may be resolved on various roads in the future anyway.17:10
do3ccmgedmin: snippet for what?17:10
do3ccI parse the buildbot html page for mail generation for now17:10
mgedminbuildbot itself has a MailNotifier17:10
Theuni1yeah, that's what I thought we'd do17:10
mgedminbut the mails it sends are not what the test aggregator can currently aggregate, AFAIU17:10
do3ccI know, but configuring it to comply with the correct syntax for the mailing list is more work than html parsing17:11
do3ccthe html parser can also do the same for hudson17:11
do3ccI generate just one mail for all buildbots we have17:11
mgedminah! cool!17:11
mgedminwe = the zope community?17:11
Theuni1that actually works against the idea of the aggregation script17:11
mgedminor we = the organization you work for?17:12
Theuni1do3cc: multiple mails would be better17:12
do3ccTheuni1: np17:12
Theuni1otherwise the aggregator doesn't work correctly17:12
Theuni1do3cc: we can discuss the technical details later17:12
mgedminwell, the total count will be a bit off, I suppose17:12
do3ccI also have implemented ignore lists so that boring builds won't bother us17:12
do3ccyes, no more mail aggregation talk now17:12
* mgedmin suddenly realizes this is the middle of the weekly meeting17:13
Theuni1mgedmin: ?17:13
mgedminI'll stop digressions now17:13
Theuni1So, the other topic would be towards ZTK release17:13
* Theuni1 throws a piece of chocolate towards mgedmin for good behaviour17:13
* mgedmin just came back from lunch a few minutes ago17:14
Theuni1We already raised three questions:17:14
Theuni1- what do we need for a release?17:14
Theuni1- who's the release manager?17:14
Theuni1- can we ensure windows binaries?17:14
Theuni1I guess the last one is overlapping with the build question that's being worked on.17:14
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agroszeryah, "how can we ensure windows binaries" instead of "can we ensure windows binaries"17:15
agroszerI guess we have to17:15
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hannoschwindows binaries is the least of the problems. at least for 2.6 and later. that's a technical problem, we are good at solving those17:16
Theuni1hannosch: right. and we already started tackling that. so let's ignore that.17:16
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wiggythe only real thing you need is a release manager imho17:17
wiggyif the tests are green you have something releaseable17:17
Theuni1wiggy: almost ;)17:17
wiggyso you just need someone to check that and hassle people17:17
Theuni1I think there were still some political/soft issues that wanted consensus.17:17
wiggysomeone with chris's zeal for docs would be nice17:17
Theuni1chris == mcdonc?17:18
mcdoncbaijum has been doing an amazing job on docs17:18
hannoschwell, I'd the release manager needs to talk to the consumers of the ZTK and see what they need in order to use a release17:18
mcdoncbut he's only a man17:18
wiggydo we want volunteers, or do we want to nominate people?17:18
Theuni1mcdonc: if you'd were a woman I'd see some serious gender mainstreaming topic coming up right now ... o_O17:18
wiggyperhaps people are afraid to volunteer17:18
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hannoschmmh, I think it's pretty unclear what the expectations are for a ZTK release and what the job of the manager entails17:19
Theuni1wiggy: well, no one can stop you form nominating people ;)17:20
Theuni1hannosch: right. i think we might want to gather some high level goals for the release17:20
wiggyand what the powers of a release manager are17:20
wiggya one-man steering commitee?17:20
wiggysomething else?17:20
hannoschbut I'd be willing to say we call for volunteers and give the chosen release manager a lot of dictator power over the first release17:21
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hannoschthere's so many bikeshed issues we won't get anywhere with general community input17:21
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Theuni1the word power makes me flinch17:22
agroszer+1, some Guido-ish person needs to be there17:22
wiggywithout power it's impossible to get anything done17:22
wiggynothing will happen except never-ending discussion17:23
wiggyie what we have now17:23
Theuni1i think power alone isn't the issue.17:23
mcdoncits a tricky thing because it ideally would be a person that uses all of ( bluebream/zope3 | zope2 | grok ) in anger17:23
hannoschI think the risk is pretty low. if we get an unusable first ZTK release, so what? people don't have to use it17:23
Theuni1i think if we assign power, we also need to assign goals.17:23
mcdoncthere arent many of those people17:23
wiggyyou need power to battle stop energy17:24
wiggymcdonc:  none I'ld guess17:24
Theuni1and do stop battle energy ;)17:24
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Theuni1mcdonc: right. initially we tried to get a mixture with that representation for the steering group.17:24
mcdoncmakes sense17:25
Theuni1Didn't work out though ;)17:25
Theuni1How about a temporary poll: who's at least slightly positive about getting a single volunteer for the release manager?17:26
mcdonc+1 rather17:26
sawdogcan I vote?17:26
Theuni1sawdog: sure17:27
agroszeror worst case assign a deputy17:27
Theuni1baijum: when you say -0, why's that?17:27
trollfotit could be +0, I guess :p17:27
Theuni1agroszer: what's a deputy?17:28
agroszerI mean a second person, who follows all steps, and can take over if the first one is not available for longer17:28
baijumTheuni1: even if a ZTK 1.0 is not release, Grok, BB & Zope 2 will release based on some ZTK svn revision .. I just just going to happen17:28
Theuni1baijum: so you're saying the release itself isn't that important to you?17:28
Theuni1agroszer: ah, i see17:28
baijumTheuni1: yes17:29
Theuni1baijum: i see. different question ;)17:29
mcdoncwho here is a ztk release important for?17:29
* Theuni1 + the other gocept guys17:29
Theuni1mcdonc: i think the "directly" qualification is ambiguous/confusing17:30
baijumZope 2 only care about few packages in ZTK, Grok little more and BB is the only one use the whole..but that's going to change after 1.0 release17:30
wiggyztk releases might be useful as 'coordination/compatibility' points, but they would require a release schedule that is somewhat in line with the ztk consumers and their requirements17:30
mcdonci guess i meant who really really wants a ztk release17:30
wiggyie if for every zope2 release there are 5 ztk releases in between - that isn't very useful17:30
do3ccmcdonc: as an alternative to what?17:31
trollfotbaijum: grok relies on more than a few ztk packages17:31
mcdoncas opposed to idly thinking "that might be a good idea"17:31
LeoRochaelwiggy: might not be helpful, but how does it hurt?17:31
mcdoncdo3cc: as an alternative to each framework choosing its own versions of what's currently in the ztk17:31
wiggyLeoRochael:  there isn't much point in a release if everybody is on a different release17:31
hannoschIf I want to use Grok in Zope2 / Plone, I'd really like there to be a ZTK release underlying both of them17:31
wiggyso you get nothing from using a release instead of a svn revision17:31
mcdonchannosch: good point17:32
Theuni1Ok. Time's up for today, so the log will stop around here.17:32
wiggy30 minutes are up17:32
Theuni1Just a quick summary here: we do look for a volunteer?17:32
hannoschI think we are tired of talk and generally in favor of actions :)17:32
agroszera proper ZTK release would make life easier for all dependents17:33
Theuni1alright. i'll take the as the summary17:33
* wiggy nominates hanno17:33
hannoschnooooo :)17:33
LeoRochaelyes, but it also look like we still have questions about what the ZTK is actually good for17:33
Theuni1LeoRochael: this question was not for introducing more "but"s ;)17:33
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Theuni1anyway, i'll take that over to the mailing list17:33
hannoschwiggy: I'm already the most likeliest candidate for that Zope2 release manager position ... don't need more titles :)17:33
Theuni1thanks for joining today and keep discussing if you wanna stay around17:34
mcdoncthanks Theuni117:34
Theuni1mcdonc: no worries :)17:34
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do3ccTheuni1: when do you want to call?17:35
do3ccmgedmin: you had some comments regarding mail17:35
Theuni1we can have a quick chat in a few minutes when i'm done writing the summary17:36
Theuni1otherwise i'd suggest thursday17:36
do3ccevery day is as bad as the next one17:36
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mgedmindo3cc, questions rather than comments17:37
do3ccmgedmin: btw. If you do not mind, I parse your buildbot even with a robots.txt prohibiting it17:38
mgedminspecifically, as the overseer of one of the buildbots (Zope 3.4 KGS), is there something simple I could do?17:38
mgedminstudy buildbot sources & handcraft a custom MailNotifier to send emails in a format acceptable for zope-tests@ is too much effort for me, currently17:38
do3ccI also see no value in that17:39
mgedmincopy and paste 15 lines of code into my master.cfg so I can send properly formatted MailNotifier emails to ... == just the right amount of effort17:39
mgedminthat's provided somebody figured out the magic 15 lines17:39
* baijum think no test should fail in ZTK trunk, may be we need to adopt the (lengthy?) workflow suggested by Jim17:39
mgedminalso, Zope 3.4 KGS = practically nothing ever changes, so value of emails is low17:39
mgedminexcept that on Saturday the KGS broke because of the broken zope.testing release, which was useful17:40
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do3ccthe mails are only sent to tests list17:40
mgedminwell, my buildbot sends its mails to me17:40
do3ccfrom there another script generates a single mail to the developers list17:40
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do3ccso there is not much noise anyway17:40
do3ccI would be more interested in mail notifications of the developers who broke the build17:41
mgedminwhat are you saying then?  just send mails there, without worrying about the aggregator script?17:41
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heverHello I'm searching in plone smart folders and going to find all except "not_listed" for example "a* -"not_listed"" works but instead of a* I'm just going to use * but that seems not possible. Does somebody have an idea how to realize this simple search ?17:41
kittoniansm: you around?17:41
do3ccNo, the zope-tests list needs the special crafted mails already17:41
mgedminas a developer  I would be most interested in emails like "ZTK broke, here's a link you can click to see the traceback"17:41
kittonianthe traffic was getting way too heavy on that site i just built so we had to move it all over to a co-located server17:41
kittonianso i just installed zope but i'm having some issue with permissions for some reason17:42
do3ccmgedmin: have a look at your inbox17:42
kittoniani got all the products up and working and zope is up and running, however even though i can login as me to the ZMI i cannot login as the zopeadmin user or the user admin (both of which are in the acl_users folder. it's also treating my login as special_user/anonymous for some reason17:43
kittonianand even though it'll show me the error_log it's constantly saying i don't have permission to access this resource17:43
mgedmindo3cc, yes, currently the aggregator does exactly that for zope 2 tests17:43
do3ccI also have links to the builders17:44
mgedminor did you mean my other inbox?17:44
do3cci just sent a mail to .as17:44
do3ccOK: Community Buildbots Summary17:44
mgedminI'll see it as soon as the greylister lets it through17:44
mgedminemail is not real-time...17:44
do3ccheh, nice idea to train customers to use bug trackers17:45
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heverHas zope a text search wildcard that gets all? * doesn't work, you have to use somehting like a* b* c* d* ...17:52
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kittoniancan anyone give me a hand with this permission situation?18:04
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kittonianok, i've narrowed it down to a safari problem apparently19:25
kittoniani can login and it works just fine using firefox but not safari. safari has always worked before but now i'm using zope 2.11.4 and it won't pass the proper authentication headers when i login to the zmi19:26
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kittonianok, this is really crazy. apparently with zope 2.10.x safari will auth without issue but with 2.11.x it won't20:06
kittoniancan anyone help me solve this?20:06
kittonianit lets me in the zmi just fine but logs unauthorized errors with every keystroke20:06
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kittonianFF works without issue20:11
kittoniani did a google search and apparently i'm not the only one having this issue, however i can't seem to find a solution20:11
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kittoniangrrrrrr, i just installed 2.10.9 and it's doing the same exact thing20:25
kittonianwhat the hell?20:25
trollfotkittonian: i've experienced that20:26
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kittonianhow do i resolve it?20:26
kittoniani have to be able to use safari and this was not occuring on my other server20:26
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trollfotkittonian: I don't know. It's on all recent zope and ZTK. I don't use safari, but my customers have had the problems20:28
kittonianwhich means i have to go back to zope 2.10.1 which is what was working on the other server20:29
kittonianwhat is the latest version you are running?20:30
trollfoti'm not running zope2, i'm using ZTK on my own CMS. So, it must be a version of zope.login and/or zope.authentication20:30
kittonianneither of those exist20:31
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kittonianneither zope.login nor zope.authentication exist20:34
kittonianthere is an authentication dir in $ZOPEHOME/lib/python/zope/app/authentication20:35
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kittonianwell, if none of the newer zope releases support safari then i guess i have no choice but to go back to an older release instead20:42
kittoniani just have to wonder if it's a zope thing or a python version thing20:44
kittonianon the old server i'm running 2.10.1 and python 2.4.420:44
kittonianon this new server i tried 2.10.9 but used python 2.4.620:44
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magciusI'm getting a weird version when using z.i without C extensions:
magciusweird error, that is21:34
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TresEquismagcius: that is an error in your code21:40
TresEquis__getattr__ is supposed to raise AttributeError on failure, not KeyError21:40
TresEquisyou need to do something like:21:41
TresEquis result = self._FIELDS.get(name, default=_marker)21:42
TresEquis if result is _marker:21:42
TresEquis     raise AttributeError21:42
TresEquis return result21:42
TresEquiswhere marker is a global, e.g.:21:42
TresEquis_marker = object()21:42
magciusTresEquis: alright21:43
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kittonianok, forgetting about the whole safari issue, i at least want to make sure things are up and running for right now but i can't for the life of me get apache to serve up anything when trying to access a URL that should be rewritten to be served by zope22:25
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kittonianit's not showing me a 404, error page, or anything. the browser just hangs at "connecting to"22:26
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kittoniani've seemingly got the right directory stuff in the httpd-vhosts.conf file and i made sure that mod_fastcgi is installed22:27
kittonianboth mod_rewrite.h and mod_proxy.h exist in the apache2 include directory22:28
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kittoniannevermind. no need for fastcgi.22:39
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