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| teratorn | it seems that an HTTP POST with Content-Type: text/xml is always handled by zope3 as an XML-RPC call.... but I need to prevent that somehow, because I'm actually trying to handle a SOAP (which is also an HTTP POST as text/xml) | 04:21 |
|---|---|---|
| mcdonc | i'm afraid you're out of luck unless you change ZPublisher; this is harcoded there | 04:25 |
| mcdonc | (grep for "Yee ha") | 04:26 |
| mcdonc | (seriously) | 04:26 |
| teratorn | heh, OK... I might be able to get away with a monkey patch, but my co-workers might kill me | 04:27 |
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| teratorn | mcdonc: I don't see anything relevant grepping for "Yee ha"... do you have a file/line no. instead? :) | 04:29 |
| mcdonc | ZPublisher.HTTPRequest.HTTPRequest.processInputs, line 4912 | 04:39 |
| mcdonc | 491 sorry | 04:39 |
| teratorn | ty | 04:40 |
| mcdonc | looks like some sort of recent support for SOAP in there if HTTP_SOAPACTION is present in the CGI environment | 04:41 |
| mcdonc | i'm sure that's extremely well-documented ;-) | 04:41 |
| teratorn | mcdonc: is that zope2 code you're looking at? | 04:41 |
| mcdonc | yes | 04:42 |
| teratorn | I'm using zope3 :/ | 04:42 |
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| mcdonc | its the same shit with everything shuffled around and lowercased anyway ;-) | 04:42 |
| teratorn | I found this, but I'm unsure how to use it or if it even works or is still maintained: http://svn.zope.org/soap/trunk/ | 04:43 |
| mcdonc | i definitely dont know, although maybe someone else in here does.. there's also a zope3-dev IRC channel.. usually this room is frequented by zope2 people | 04:44 |
| binbrain | looks like that package http://svn.zope.org/soap/trunk/ is as about as up2date as the its dependencies ZSI | 05:34 |
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| binbrain | teratorn: if you get your answer be sure to document for those of us stuck living with SOAP :) | 05:43 |
| teratorn | binbrain: :) | 05:44 |
| binbrain | we monkey patch publisher and have some ugly wrapper around soaplib. it works though | 05:44 |
| binbrain | this is Z2 | 05:44 |
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| TKtiddle | I can have a script in zope which I can access from the browser by going to http://localhost:8080/testView . I'm trying to insert the output of this script into a page template using tal:replace="structure view/testView" but I get an Error type: transversalError; Error Value:(, 'testView') | 15:53 |
| TKtiddle | what am I doing wrong? | 15:54 |
| betabug | TKtiddle: I don't know if TAL knows what "view" is in your "view/testView" | 15:55 |
| TKtiddle | betabug: OK I used context/view .. this works.. thanks | 15:57 |
| betabug | cool :-) | 15:57 |
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| TKtiddle | anyone know how to call context/index.html from python script? | 16:42 |
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| betabug | context['index.html'] | 16:50 |
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| bigkevmcd | that doesn't look quite right | 16:51 |
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| hannosch | Theuni1: do you know what the status is, of the Grok guys nominating someone for the ZTK release group? | 17:57 |
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| Theuni1 | good question | 17:59 |
| Theuni1 | not of the top of my head | 17:59 |
| hannosch | Theuni1: ok :) then you know as much as I do :) | 17:59 |
| Theuni1 | they did not respond on the mailing list | 18:00 |
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| Theuni1 | sounds like i need to talk to them on the grok-dev list | 18:00 |
| hannosch | please do :) | 18:00 |
| TresEquis | are we started already? | 18:00 |
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| hannosch | no. I had a non-agenda question | 18:01 |
| * Charlie_X is ready | 18:01 | |
| * ccomb too | 18:01 | |
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| TresEquis | ah, ok | 18:01 |
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| Theuni1 | ok | 18:02 |
| Theuni1 | lets start then | 18:02 |
| * TresEquis quotes the Lion King shaman monkey: "It is time" | 18:02 | |
| Theuni1 | questions about the agenda? | 18:03 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: you're up ;) | 18:03 |
| * agroszer present | 18:03 | |
| Theuni1 | (Agenda's here: https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2010-April/040226.html) | 18:03 |
| agroszer | regarding KGS 3.4.1, I guess we should wait for the bugday | 18:04 |
| Theuni1 | So the topic is version hell | 18:04 |
| agroszer | yup | 18:04 |
| Theuni1 | agroszer: for the release that's definitely a good idea | 18:04 |
| Theuni1 | OTOH you wanted to talk about version problems | 18:04 |
| agroszer | there's a big chaos out there | 18:04 |
| agroszer | bugfixes are mixed with features and vice-versa | 18:05 |
| ccomb | yesterday I've tried z3c.formdemo | 18:05 |
| agroszer | add some random major and minor version bumps | 18:05 |
| Charlie_X | Bugday is http://wiki.zope.org/bluebream/BugDay20100424 | 18:05 |
| ccomb | it didn't work because the latest version of zope.app.securitypolicy has major changes | 18:05 |
| ccomb | although it has been released as a minor version | 18:06 |
| ccomb | I've also tried to buildout an old version of z3c.formdemo | 18:06 |
| ccomb | it didn"t work either, because there is no version information | 18:06 |
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| ccomb | When I've released z3c.layer and layer.minimal, same problem | 18:06 |
| agroszer | so my question is, do want to enforce some rules regarding this? | 18:06 |
| ccomb | we should probably provide some tool to use just before releasing | 18:07 |
| agroszer | like at least having a "stable" branch? | 18:07 |
| TresEquis | ccomb: is z.a.securitypolicy latest version in the zopeapp.cfg file? | 18:07 |
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| TresEquis | your[ nightlies for the ZTK are good data: only thing is, I can't see in the output what versions are being used | 18:08 |
| ccomb | yes it is in 3.5.2 | 18:08 |
| ccomb | it should have been 3.6.0 | 18:08 |
| TresEquis | is the cfg file for that the main ZTK cfg? | 18:08 |
| Theuni1 | agroszer: we do have rules for one, so we should enforce them. :) | 18:09 |
| TresEquis | Martijn Faassen is the one who made those changes, right? | 18:09 |
| Charlie_X | +1 on minor for bug fixes only | 18:09 |
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| ccomb | We should have a tool that would be run just before releasing, and that check several points : whether new version is appropriate, whether tests pass on all versions, etc. | 18:10 |
| ccomb | There is also a problem with version information in individual packages | 18:10 |
| TresEquis | just before releasing what? | 18:11 |
| TresEquis | an individual package? | 18:11 |
| ccomb | if you want to run the buildout and launch the tests, you don't know which versions to use | 18:11 |
| TresEquis | or the zopeapp set? | 18:11 |
| agroszer | I'm not sure that will work | 18:11 |
| ccomb | for example z3c.layer from two years ago | 18:11 |
| ccomb | you have to manually and arbitrary add version information in the buildout | 18:11 |
| TresEquis | should be run against the 3.4.0 KGS, .likely | 18:11 |
| TresEquis | can't possibly expect it to run against current ZTK | 18:12 |
| agroszer | likely -- that's the point ;-) | 18:12 |
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| TresEquis | bulidout.cfg should point to that index | 18:12 |
| ccomb | maybe we should include an optional versions extend, or a dev buildout for each package | 18:12 |
| agroszer | actually -- buildout.cfg does not get released, does it? | 18:12 |
| ccomb | or something | 18:12 |
| Charlie_X | I can't think of any heuristics for that kind of check. Only rigorously enforcing policy by "unreleasing" incorrectly labelled versions, if possible. | 18:13 |
| Theuni1 | Sounds like thats an issue because those indexes weren't really established when those packages were created. | 18:13 |
| TresEquis | it is part of the SVN tag | 18:13 |
| Theuni1 | Charlie_X: unreleasing is a no-go. | 18:13 |
| Charlie_X | oh well | 18:13 |
| * TresEquis votes again against the "KGS + PyPI" quasi-index | 18:13 | |
| TresEquis | can't possibly be a KGS | 18:13 |
| agroszer | revert in svn, re-release as a next version should work | 18:14 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: you mean including a KGS from the development buildout of a package? | 18:14 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: at this point, we should release z.a.securitypolicy 3.5.3 reverting the changes in 3.5.2 | 18:14 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: yeah, that's what i thought as well | 18:14 |
| TresEquis | and release the current 3.5.2 as 3.6.0 | 18:14 |
| agroszer | that's the way | 18:14 |
| Theuni1 | Seems like that's the remedy that holds all assumptions we have otherwise. | 18:14 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: I mean the code which tries to build an index as a PyPI mirror with the KGS packages overlaid on it | 18:14 |
| Charlie_X | +1 lead by example. Let us sheeple follow | 18:15 |
| TresEquis | need to confirm with faassen first | 18:15 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: yeah. right. what made you vote against it at this very moment, anyway? | 18:15 |
| Theuni1 | and yeah for checking back with martijn | 18:15 |
| agroszer | TresEquis, there's an egg or something that dumps all picked versions | 18:15 |
| TresEquis | the "old" indexes for th3 Z3 KGS aren't a "KGS" | 18:15 |
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| Theuni1 | TresEquis: ah. | 18:15 |
| TresEquis | because they include random untested crap from PyPI | 18:16 |
| TKtiddle | what do i ahve to import to use context from an external script? | 18:16 |
| TresEquis | let's fix z.a.sp, then figure out what to do about policy for "old stable" indexes | 18:17 |
| Theuni1 | agroszer: was that the only issue you had or are there more of those? | 18:17 |
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| TresEquis | but in general, old versions of packages are going to need fixing to work with newer ZTK versions | 18:18 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: yup | 18:18 |
| agroszer | Theuni1, I think there are more, but after checking all of the KGS's packages... I did not write up that info | 18:18 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: create bugs for each issue | 18:18 |
| agroszer | k | 18:18 |
| TresEquis | for now, put them in https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3 | 18:19 |
| hannosch | I found a lot more of those when updating things for Zope 2.12.5 | 18:19 |
| Theuni1 | and i guess putting the policy of re-releasing with a feature removed and a new major version into the documentation is worthwhile (just making a mental note for the minutes and my tasklist here) | 18:19 |
| hannosch | but it's all for "old versions" | 18:19 |
| TresEquis | because we don't have project trackers for the zope.app.* packages | 18:19 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: z.a.sp is actually rereleasing with re-added deprecated imports | 18:19 |
| Theuni1 | nice ;) | 18:20 |
| Theuni1 | do we want to move to the next topic? | 18:20 |
| * Charlie_X thinks that description sounds like "reclaimed meat" | 18:20 | |
| agroszer | yup, follwo up in email | 18:20 |
| TresEquis | yes | 18:21 |
| Theuni1 | So, LP gardening and triage. | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | http://palladion.com/home/tseaver/obzervationz/2010/ztk_launchpad_gardening | 18:21 |
| Theuni1 | I think the bug trackers are pretty much in place now, right Tres? | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | yes | 18:21 |
| Theuni1 | One thing that you already mentioned is what happens to the zope.app.* stuff | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | we should think about trackers for the zopeapp.cfg projects | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | Ideally, I would like to move all Z3 bugs into a more focused project | 18:22 |
| hannosch | would those all belong to BlueBream? | 18:22 |
| TresEquis | so that people who wanted to work on that package could review and close them before doing a release | 18:22 |
| * Theuni1 hands out palantirs | 18:22 | |
| Theuni1 | hannosch: that's what i thought | 18:22 |
| TresEquis | hannosch: maybe not: Grok uses them too | 18:22 |
| TresEquis | we need a "project group" for them | 18:23 |
| TresEquis | like 'zopetoolkit' | 18:23 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: building on the zopeapp.cfg parallel to ztk.cfg, right? | 18:23 |
| TresEquis | BB and Grok both consume them | 18:23 |
| TresEquis | right | 18:23 |
| sidnei | zopeapptoolkit? | 18:23 |
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| sidnei | *wink* | 18:23 |
| TresEquis | I think maybe 'zopeapp'? | 18:23 |
| Theuni1 | zopeapp would be fine IMHO | 18:23 |
| hannosch | +1 | 18:23 |
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| Theuni1 | toolkitmania seems over the top ;) | 18:23 |
| Charlie_X | +1 for being what it says on the tin | 18:23 |
| hannosch | it's certainly no toolkit at all :) | 18:24 |
| sidnei | eyjafjallajokull would be a nice name too | 18:24 |
| TresEquis | I will work on the project group and projects | 18:24 |
| TresEquis | LOL | 18:24 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: wait a second | 18:24 |
| TresEquis | hmm ? | 18:24 |
| Theuni1 | I do want to get another suggestion out that you can bash. | 18:24 |
| TresEquis | ok | 18:24 |
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| TresEquis | "Fire when ready, Gridley!" | 18:25 |
| Theuni1 | I wondered whether it was a mistake to split zope.app.* into multiple distributions anyway. At some point I felt like the best way would have been to have zope.app be one distribution, like Zope 2 is. | 18:25 |
| TresEquis | ah | 18:25 |
| hannosch | that doesn't work well, since BB and Grok use different parts of the zopeapp set | 18:25 |
| hannosch | and some aren't used by anyone really | 18:25 |
| Theuni1 | hannosch: are you saying they use it in ways that are incompatible to have all of them activaed? | 18:25 |
| TresEquis | we definitely need input from BB and Grok on that | 18:25 |
| * Charlie_X bets on the guy with the club beating the fish in a fight | 18:26 | |
| Theuni1 | hannosch: that isn't actually a problem because it's just superfluous stuff but not a contradiction. :) | 18:26 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: we do. | 18:26 |
| Theuni1 | i think thats a topic that the release engineering group for the ZTK could pick up | 18:26 |
| TresEquis | sounds right | 18:26 |
| Theuni1 | I send out mail to the grok-dev list already checking whether they want to join. | 18:26 |
| Theuni1 | My point with the zope.app as a single distribution was to have less overhead WRT releases. | 18:27 |
| hannosch | well, Zope2 doesn't use zope.app anymore, neither should the toolkit | 18:27 |
| Theuni1 | and slim it out over time. | 18:27 |
| Theuni1 | hannosch: which it doesn't due to certain events around last christmas, right? ;) | 18:27 |
| TresEquis | "grok vs. bb cage match" | 18:27 |
| ccomb | since zope.app.* are more and more lightweight, I also think it could be gathered into one zope.app distribution | 18:27 |
| Theuni1 | haha | 18:27 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: do you want to say something about the zope 3 bug triage until time is over? | 18:27 |
| hannosch | I think zope.app should be left to BB and Grok, but that's only me :) | 18:28 |
| agroszer | yup! bugday is coming | 18:28 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: I plan to publish some docs before bugday | 18:28 |
| TresEquis | which outline a process for collaborating on one of the ZTK projects | 18:28 |
| TresEquis | using SVN, or a DVCS | 18:28 |
| TresEquis | and how to interact with the LP tracker | 18:28 |
| Theuni1 | ah, cool. could we get those to go into the developer documentation on docs.zope.org? | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | I mean to move them there | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | although I may publish elsewhere to avoid red-tape at first | 18:29 |
| hannosch | TresEquis: that would be an extension of all the info at http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/index.html ? | 18:29 |
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| * TresEquis doesn't know how to get stuff published on docs.zope.org | 18:29 | |
| TresEquis | hannosch: likely so | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | more aimed at "drive-by" contributors | 18:30 |
| TresEquis | core process is still mostly the same | 18:30 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: basically you check stuff in and some cronjobs pulls it out again ;) | 18:30 |
| TresEquis | OK, I'll look into that | 18:30 |
| TresEquis | I would prefer to be able to push stuff, but I'll wee | 18:30 |
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| Theuni1 | yeah same here | 18:31 |
| Theuni1 | if you pester jens he might do something to help you :) | 18:31 |
| TresEquis | if the cronjob ran every 5min or something, that would probably be fine | 18:31 |
| * Theuni1 yells TTTTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME | 18:31 | |
| TresEquis | overnight is too much slop | 18:31 |
| Theuni1 | I made him run it hourly instead of daily a while ago ;) | 18:31 |
| Theuni1 | I'd rather have a post-commit-hook thing or something. | 18:31 |
| TresEquis | what host does it live on? | 18:32 |
| TresEquis | svn.zope.org? | 18:32 |
| Theuni1 | PING hetzner01.zopefoundation.org (78.46.69.137) 56(84) bytes of data. | 18:32 |
| Theuni1 | 64 bytes from hetzner01.zopefoundation.org (78.46.69.137): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=24.1 ms | 18:32 |
| Theuni1 | that's docs.zope.org | 18:32 |
| TresEquis | btw, why is SVN still in the ZC cluster? | 18:32 |
| hannosch | meeting is over? | 18:32 |
| TresEquis | hannosch: yup | 18:32 |
| hannosch | :) | 18:32 |
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| Charlie_X | TKtiddle: back to your question - what do you mean by an external script? | 18:33 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: because nobody took it out from there? i guess it's an operational issue of keeping all the band aid with LDAP/updating scripts/zope.org/... in place | 18:33 |
| TresEquis | why is the LDAP and www.zope.org in the ZC cluster? | 18:33 |
| TresEquis | ccomb: can you highlight what versions.cfg your nightly build is using? | 18:35 |
| * hannosch guesses both ldap and www are a pain to move | 18:35 | |
| ccomb | the nightly build is using the sources configured in the mr.developer [sources] section | 18:35 |
| J1m | I'm happy to add something to the post commit script if desired. | 18:35 |
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| ccomb | they currently all point to the trunks | 18:36 |
| TresEquis | Yay! I just heard back from the MSFT guy on MSDN licenses | 18:36 |
| Theuni1 | w00t | 18:36 |
| TresEquis | sidnei: can you remind me what we need to do? | 18:36 |
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| J1m | we also maintain a svn secondary and could run scripts there. | 18:36 |
| * Charlie_X has to sit down at that news | 18:36 | |
| ccomb | but we can let the ztk.cfg use some branches instead of the trunks | 18:37 |
| ccomb | the package trunks should be considered the current development branches of the ZTK | 18:37 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, for EC2? i have an image with the visual studio express edition, which would be fine for python 2.6 | 18:37 |
| ccomb | when we release or freeze the ZTK, all these sources should point to maintenance branches instead | 18:37 |
| TresEquis | how many MSDN licenses do we need to set up and run images with VS for Python 2.4. and 2.5? | 18:38 |
| ccomb | this is somewhat similar to Debian unstable/testing | 18:38 |
| TresEquis | J1m: the script would need to poke docs.zope.org | 18:38 |
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| sidnei | TresEquis, we'd need a license for visual studio 2003, that's it | 18:40 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: MSDN licenses are usually rather comprehensive allowing you to install almost as many copies as needed for development purposes. | 18:40 |
| TresEquis | do we need images for different Windows versions? | 18:40 |
| TresEquis | 32-bit vs 64-bit, etc? | 18:40 |
| TresEquis | sidnei: what about the license for Windows itself? | 18:41 |
| TresEquis | I know the MSDN licenses can be used to host VMs | 18:41 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, it's embedded in the price for the ami | 18:41 |
| TresEquis | ah, ok | 18:41 |
| Theuni1 | so we basically need the MSDN license for the compiler | 18:41 |
| sidnei | yup | 18:41 |
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| TresEquis | would we run more than one AMI? | 18:42 |
| sidnei | not necessarily | 18:43 |
| TresEquis | or would the MSDN license cover that case | 18:43 |
| TresEquis | what about testing, vs. just building packages | 18:43 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: really depends on the specifics of the license. they tend to have variations. my experience was that you can use it for more than a single install. | 18:43 |
| TresEquis | could we run Hudson / buildbot on different archis / Windows versions? | 18:43 |
| Theuni1 | e.g. we had an MSDN Operating System license which covered as many build/testing/development installs of any windows version available as the person who had the license needed. | 18:44 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: I think the ones being offered by MSFT are pretty comprehensive | 18:44 |
| TresEquis | but they might need to be tied to individuals | 18:44 |
| Theuni1 | which is hard to define for VMs run for a foundation that has a developer community anyway ... o_O | 18:44 |
| TresEquis | so I think we need to get together a (short) list of folks who agree to run the build and/or test images on behalf of the ZF | 18:45 |
| regebro | Eh, I forgot about the meeting again. | 18:45 |
| hannosch | regebro: you fix zope.testing and we are all happy :) | 18:45 |
| * Charlie_X suggests regebro add a reminder function to zope.testunner | 18:46 | |
| regebro | hannosch: Yeah, I didn't have much to say anyway. | 18:46 |
| * TresEquis offers three cheers for regebro's un-fscking work | 18:46 | |
| regebro | Charlie_X: I put a repeat alarm on my phone. It didn't repeat. | 18:46 |
| hannosch | TresEquis: can you write a mail to zope-dev asking for Win volunteers? I'd guess sidnei and me would be interested. but I know there's more doing regular windows binary egg builds | 18:47 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: hmm. hmm. from a continuity perspective I was thinking that the ZF might run the machines. | 18:47 |
| Theuni1 | and hand out access to maintainers for them | 18:47 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: I agree | 18:47 |
| J1m | TresEquis, I don't know if that's a problem, depending on the nature of the poke. | 18:47 |
| TresEquis | but MSFT is reported to hand out these licenses to individuals | 18:47 |
| Theuni1 | as they said in the mail | 18:47 |
| Theuni1 | I wonder whether discussing t his with them would be worthwhile. | 18:48 |
| TKtiddle | Charlie_X: Im working with a script.py on the filesystem, and i want to call zope objects as i do from templates. For instance fill my template with content using tal:replace="structure view/render". How can i make this call from a python script (because I want to edit content with python) | 18:48 |
| agroszer | TresEquis, Theuni1 isn't it possible to run the whole as a webservice? | 18:48 |
| agroszer | so one "person" runs the webservice | 18:49 |
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| agroszer | or how's that planned? | 18:49 |
| Theuni1 | Ideally we'd arrive at an automated setup. | 18:49 |
| Theuni1 | We're currently taking small steps though and try to get working intermediate scenarios. | 18:50 |
| agroszer | I see | 18:50 |
| Charlie_X | TKtiddle: can you paste some code to a codebin? | 18:50 |
| Theuni1 | I don't think we have spelled this approach out explicitly, but that's what I see happening. | 18:50 |
| * agroszer feels the pain in going from manual to automated | 18:51 | |
| agroszer | an that on windowze | 18:51 |
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| TresEquis | We would like to have the ZF pay for an EC2 image which wakes up periodically to run tests, build binaries | 18:51 |
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| TresEquis | in order to get there, we need to work out licenses for the developers who build and maintain that image | 18:52 |
| TresEquis | (or images) | 18:52 |
| Theuni1 | yup | 18:52 |
| agroszer | I see | 18:52 |
| agroszer | got it | 18:52 |
| Theuni1 | I also see continuity issues if the developer leaves the community but the visual studio is licensed to him: do we have to reinstall everything? | 18:53 |
| TresEquis | and then ensure that running the image that way remains in compliance with the license terms | 18:53 |
| TresEquis | we need to arrange for several of them, I think | 18:53 |
| TKtiddle | this code shows how i am trying to access context methods/attributes from a pyton script : http://pastebin.com/RaT9QhKm | 18:54 |
| TresEquis | TKtiddle: you want 'self.context' | 18:55 |
| TresEquis | view instances have 'context' and 'request' as attributes | 18:55 |
| sidnei | Theuni1, typically you just change the license number, no need to reinstall | 18:55 |
| TresEquis | OK, I'm going to ask for three licenses, I think | 18:56 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei: if that's possible we might be fine :) | 18:56 |
| agroszer | TresEquis, can you keep me in the loop? I also need to take care of some windoze servers | 18:56 |
| TresEquis | hannosch, sidnei, who else? | 18:56 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: I can ask for a license for you, too | 18:56 |
| TresEquis | can each of you send me full contact info? | 18:57 |
| hannosch | TresEquis: could you include Jan-Japp (running some of the ZTK windows buildbots) | 18:57 |
| TresEquis | hannosch: OK, if you can send contact info for him | 18:57 |
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| hannosch | TresEquis: sent in mail | 18:58 |
| Charlie_X | TKtiddle: that's a straightforward BrowserView. Views get the context and the request assigned to them in their __init__ so you can just use self.context or self.request | 18:58 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, ok | 18:58 |
| TresEquis | can I ask folks to take a quick glance over the ZTK buglist, and see if there is anything that can be triaged before bugday? https://bugs.launchpad.net/zopetoolkit | 18:58 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, i guess name and address? | 18:58 |
| TresEquis | yup, plus email and phone | 18:59 |
| Theuni1 | blood type | 18:59 |
| TresEquis | heh | 18:59 |
| hannosch | blood sample for dna sequencing? | 18:59 |
| TresEquis | retinal scan | 18:59 |
| Theuni1 | just in case you hurt yourself and they need to send you blood packs ;) | 18:59 |
| agroszer | fingerprints | 18:59 |
| hannosch | the usual :) | 19:00 |
| agroszer | TresEquis, I guess then mine too? | 19:00 |
| TresEquis | yes, please | 19:00 |
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| TKtiddle | Charlie_X: TresEquis: I have a view called testView can I can't seem to access it from this script using self.context.testView ~feeling confused~ | 19:02 |
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| Charlie_X | Views are not accessible directly like that as they don't "live" in the Zope database. They are registered for objects that are. | 19:05 |
| Charlie_X | Assuming you have registered your view for an object you will have given it a name, say "test.html", you can access it via that object using self.context.restrictedTraverser("test.html") | 19:07 |
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| Charlie_X | This will cause Zope to look for the view with that name and return it. | 19:07 |
| Charlie_X | However, it's very ununusal to want to call one view from another. | 19:07 |
| Charlie_X | This registration and indirection makes Zope much more flexible (than it used to be) but I understand that it's confusing at first. | 19:08 |
| TKtiddle | Charlie_X: what do I need to import to use restrictedTraverser? | 19:11 |
| Charlie_X | Assuming you're using Zope2, nothing. All Zope2 objects have the method restrictedTraverse() N.B. my typo from before. I think you can import from Acquisition and pass in the object to traverse as the first argument. Can you be more expansive about your example in some code and paste it somewhere? I'll be back in about an hour. | 19:14 |
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| TKtiddle | Charlie_X: thanks for the help, still have some way to go with understanding zope it seems | 19:16 |
| TKtiddle | anyone know a good zope book? | 19:16 |
| TresEquis | TKtiddle: for Zope2, http://docs.zope.org/zope2/ has the "canonical" docs | 19:17 |
| TresEquis | AFAIK, there aren't any Zope2-only print books which haven't bitrotted | 19:17 |
| TresEquis | there are some decent Plone books | 19:17 |
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| TKtiddle | thanks TresEquis, might go for a plone book | 19:20 |
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| TKtiddle | Could you look at my code please? | 20:06 |
| TKtiddle | http://github.com/timini/silvaSkin | 20:06 |
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| Charlie_X | TKtiddle: are you using Silva? | 20:16 |
| Charlie_X | Philip von Weiterhausen's book on Zope 3 is probably what you need. | 20:18 |
| Charlie_X | The Plone books have a lot of good general stuff but also lots of plone specific stuff which will only get in your way. | 20:19 |
| TKtiddle | Trying to write a skin for silva | 20:19 |
| Charlie_X | ah | 20:19 |
| Charlie_X | You should be able to CMF-style skins - and from your folder layout that looks like what you're trying to do. | 20:20 |
| Charlie_X | c | 20:22 |
| Charlie_X | Conceptionally you need to understand that BrowserViews and the Python modules that contain them are not the same as skin objects. Similar, yes but not the same. | 20:23 |
| TKtiddle | OK | 20:23 |
| Charlie_X | Looking at the configuration, stuff looks okay but I'm guessing that is largely cut/paste/modify | 20:24 |
| TKtiddle | Im trying to write a python script called 'filter.py' to help with the presentation. I want this script to get the silva content by calling the silva view method do some modifications and return it | 20:25 |
| TKtiddle | yes completely fudged skin | 20:25 |
| Charlie_X | I'll just clone your git so I can look work with it. | 20:25 |
| Charlie_X | I wouldn't worry too much about the skin bit at the moment. It's enough getting used to views first | 20:25 |
| TKtiddle | ok let me know if you need anything to do that, using git for the first time too! | 20:26 |
| Charlie_X | I don't have a git account and I won't be setting one up. All these various DVCSs are giving me a headache! | 20:26 |
| TKtiddle | Ive figured out how to register views using browser:page and understand that you can assign these views to a layer, which is inturn used by a skin | 20:27 |
| Charlie_X | Let's try to walk first. | 20:28 |
| TKtiddle | hmm.. yes | 20:30 |
| Charlie_X | Yes, but don't worry about the layers at the moment. They only really make sense if you think you're going to let your users change skins while they view your site. This isn't the common use case. | 20:30 |
| Charlie_X | I don't know what your Products.SilvaLayout is but you shouldn't be loading it here. | 20:30 |
| Charlie_X | If it's not there and you need it here, load it elsewhere! (presumably in a buildout or some other ZCML) | 20:31 |
| TKtiddle | Its some ?interface? / lib to help skinning silva; I think it makes the skin selectable from the silva user interface; but i dont know why I think that | 20:32 |
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| TKtiddle | I have silvaLayout in products dir | 20:33 |
| Charlie_X | Well forget about it at the moment. Let's just concentrate on getting you working with Views | 20:33 |
| Charlie_X | Then don't load it again. | 20:33 |
| TKtiddle | Did I mention im running zope 2 but the silvaLayout way is to write skins in z3 using five | 20:34 |
| Charlie_X | What happens if you call /filter on your site? | 20:34 |
| Charlie_X | You didn't mention it but I know that much. Just don't know which version of Zope2 Silva is using. That's not that important, though. | 20:35 |
| TKtiddle | 404 becaus its not registered globally; its registered to the skin | 20:35 |
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| Charlie_X | Drop the all the skin commands in your configuration | 20:35 |
| TKtiddle | filter gets picked ok OK by templates registered to this skin | 20:35 |
| TKtiddle | OK... letting go.. | 20:36 |
| Charlie_X | You may conflicts on a restart (any view changes require Zope to restart) so you might need to comment your index.html views out. | 20:37 |
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| Charlie_X | I really think you don't want to parse your generated HTML in another view | 20:39 |
| TKtiddle | OK dropped all layer feilds from configure.zcml files.. localhost/filter noe gives <Products.Five.metaclass.TestView object at 0xb46e8ac> | 20:42 |
| Charlie_X | But that isn't so important at the moment | 20:42 |
| Charlie_X | Okay, so things are working at the moment - the filter is returning the testView but it isn't calling it | 20:43 |
| TKtiddle | right | 20:43 |
| Charlie_X | return self.context.restrictedTraverse("testView")() | 20:43 |
| Charlie_X | Should work | 20:43 |
| TKtiddle | goal | 20:44 |
| TKtiddle | just thinking... ok makes sense | 20:44 |
| Charlie_X | Philip's book has extensive coverage of Views and the whole configuration stuff. | 20:45 |
| Charlie_X | callable classes usually mean a double take: instance = MyCallable(); instance() | 20:45 |
| Charlie_X | One of the important things about Views is that there are no restrictions on what you can do with Python. | 20:46 |
| Charlie_X | Far more important than the "layer=..." is the "for=..." when registering a view | 20:47 |
| TKtiddle | Can you tell me how to call here/view from a script? | 20:47 |
| Charlie_X | "here" doesn't exist. But "here" is the same as "self.context" | 20:47 |
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| Charlie_X | Where do you want do that? | 20:48 |
| TKtiddle | so self.context.view() for a BrowserView instance? | 20:48 |
| Charlie_X | No | 20:48 |
| TKtiddle | errrrrrr... | 20:49 |
| Charlie_X | That would call the view method on the context object. | 20:49 |
| Charlie_X | self *is* the view | 20:49 |
| TKtiddle | OK | 20:49 |
| Charlie_X | What do you want to do? | 20:49 |
| TKtiddle | I want to call filter.py from a template.pt; filter gets context/view, does stuff to it and returns html to the template which renders it | 20:51 |
| Charlie_X | A template.pt is just a dumb file unless you register it as or for a view. | 20:52 |
| Charlie_X | You can register a template for a view class. In that case the template can automatically access the view class via "view" | 20:52 |
| TKtiddle | yes both filter.py and template.pt are registered as views | 20:53 |
| Charlie_X | But not the same view | 20:53 |
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| TKtiddle | so register a view with template=template.py for=Filter.filter | 20:54 |
| Charlie_X | You can call another view from a template using <tal:block content="structure context/@@filter" /> | 20:54 |
| Charlie_X | Where @@ is effectively the same as calling context.restrictedTraverse("filter")() | 20:55 |
| TKtiddle | is browser:page for creating views? | 20:55 |
| Charlie_X | Yes | 20:55 |
| TKtiddle | good | 20:55 |
| TKtiddle | structure context/@@filter this is an alternative method to creat a view? | 20:55 |
| Charlie_X | It won't create one but it will call one. The "@@" ensures you call a registered view instead of an object method. | 20:56 |
| TKtiddle | Thanks so much for the help Charlie_X I'm going to get that zope book to get things straight | 20:57 |
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| TKtiddle | ok | 20:57 |
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| Charlie_X | Hope you get things sorted. I found it took me a while to get used to Views but I really like them now and Philip's book is very comprehensive and exceedingly well written. | 20:58 |
| TKtiddle | great | 20:58 |
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| TKtiddle | at least i getting somewhere. Zope is hard! But wont be beaten! | 20:59 |
| TKtiddle | thanks again for the help | 20:59 |
| Charlie_X | That's the spirit! As I said calling a view and then manipulating it's content is unusual. Normally you just want to display it's contents or access it's values. | 21:01 |
| Charlie_X | It is not the same as chaining PythonScripts together. | 21:01 |
| planetzopebot | Why I stopped doing Plone (Andy McKay) http://www.agmweb.ca/blog/andy/2256 | 21:04 |
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| TKtiddle | Yeah we know about django | 21:05 |
| TKtiddle | think im talking to abot again | 21:06 |
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| Charlie_X | Yes. | 21:07 |
| Charlie_X | BFG is what we're getting excited about. Sort of like Django but with Zope | 21:07 |
| Charlie_X | Andy has a lot of experience - he wrote a book on Plone. But that experience means he's seen all the downside. Plone grew uncontrollably and very quickly and a lot of developers suffered as a result. | 21:09 |
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| Charlie_X | I think Silva may be better because it's more focussed on universities. But I have never worked with it. | 21:10 |
| TresEquis | foundation.zope.org is built on Silva | 21:10 |
| TresEquis | so I know it as a user | 21:10 |
| Charlie_X | And, how does it fair? I've always thought that the UI benefited from trying not trying to be so sexy all the time. | 21:12 |
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| TresEquis | I'm probably the wrong person to ask: AFAIC, it is perfectly servicable | 21:19 |
| TresEquis | but I don't have a very high level of need for eyecandy | 21:20 |
| Theuni1 | also silva has had steady support from infrae over all the years and was close to the development of zope itself including stuff like five | 21:22 |
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| Theuni1 | TresEquis: i'm picking up a discussion with akm about relicensing the ZODB guide to make it conform to the repository policy. i think he doesn't have checkin rights. would a formless letter ala "i hereby license the ZODB guide according to the terms of the ZPL to the ZF" be enough? | 21:36 |
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| Theuni1 | J1m: do you mind if I do pep8 cleanups when touching ZODB code? | 22:19 |
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| J1m | Theuni1, probably. (I probably mind.) I don't follow all of PEP 8. Some of it is just stupid. | 22:26 |
| Theuni1 | Humm. | 22:26 |
| J1m | what "cleanups" were you thinking of? | 22:26 |
| J1m | and what code were you touching? | 22:26 |
| J1m | are you | 22:27 |
| Theuni1 | I'm playing with the thought of touching the ZEO server figuring out if there's an acceptable way to log the class of an object when conflict resolution was performed or failed. | 22:27 |
| Theuni1 | What parts of PEP 8 don't you follow? | 22:27 |
| J1m | The dumb parts. :) | 22:28 |
| Theuni1 | doesn't help ;) | 22:28 |
| J1m | The import order bit is just insane. | 22:28 |
| Theuni1 | ah, right. | 22:28 |
| Theuni1 | I'm following pretty much everything else and thus my editor reports deviations to me which I tend to just quickly fix before making the real change. | 22:28 |
| Theuni1 | Stuff like superfluous/too little whitespace, long lines, ... | 22:29 |
| J1m | I like putting spaces around =s in keyword arguments on their own line. I don't mind if other people do things differently, but I get really annoyed when people change *my* code for the sole purpose of conformance to PEP 8. | 22:29 |
| Theuni1 | meh | 22:30 |
| J1m | There are probably others that I can't remember. Tres has a pet peeve that I don't remember but that annoys the heck out of me whenever he explains it to me. :_ | 22:30 |
| J1m | :) | 22:30 |
| J1m | I prefer readability over pep 8 and pep 8 just gets it wrong sometimes. Also, readability is somewhat a matter of art, so I don't like changing people | 22:31 |
| J1m | 's code just to conform to one sense. | 22:31 |
| Theuni1 | Hmm. Then again its harder to establish common sense for lots of projects. | 22:32 |
| J1m | There are egregious cases that should be fixed, like lines >80 characters. | 22:32 |
| J1m | Sure, but the author deserves some respect. | 22:32 |
| J1m | and also, I hate cluttering change logs with superfluous changes. | 22:33 |
| Theuni1 | well, i guess you end up with each author does his part then. | 22:33 |
| Theuni1 | that's why i try putting them in separate changes before making the actual change | 22:33 |
| Theuni1 | i guess i don't bother cleaning up :/ | 22:33 |
| J1m | PEP 8 is a find guide, but we shouldn't get crazy about it. | 22:33 |
| Theuni1 | i was merely asking. pep 8 makes it simple to invoke tool support. | 22:34 |
| Theuni1 | i found that to be quite helpful and made myself happy with pep 8 ;) | 22:34 |
| J1m | yeah, that's fine to an extent. | 22:34 |
| J1m | I'm glad you made yourself happy. | 22:34 |
| * J1m likes happiness. | 22:35 | |
| Theuni1 | I'm trying to extend on that to others but I can't guarantee the result ;) | 22:35 |
| * J1m wishes there was a PEP for correct smiley usage | 22:35 | |
| Theuni1 | why? | 22:36 |
| J1m | Because, AFAIK, a wink means your kidding. | 22:36 |
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| Theuni1 | interesting. | 22:37 |
| J1m | Which should not be confused with an ironic or funny but otherwise truthful statement. | 22:37 |
| Theuni1 | So what's the funny-but-otherwise-truthful smiley? | 22:38 |
| J1m | Maybe this is a result of Tim Peters conditioning. He used to make statements that I thought he meant but that he said I should have known weren't serioud because of the use of the wink. | 22:38 |
| J1m | :) | 22:38 |
| J1m | And variations thereof. | 22:38 |
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| Theuni1 | Here's what I found: | 22:39 |
| Theuni1 | ;) Winking happy faces (something said tongue-in-cheek) | 22:39 |
| J1m | This kidding | 22:39 |
| J1m | thus | 22:39 |
| Theuni1 | hmm. so there's also misunderstanding of tongue-in-cheek involved. | 22:39 |
| J1m | yes | 22:39 |
| Theuni1 | Gotta love communication. | 22:40 |
| J1m | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek | 22:40 |
| J1m | Because of the treatment I got from Tim, I take winks far too seriously. | 22:41 |
| J1m | My bad. | 22:41 |
| J1m | So, did I answer your questions about pep 8? | 22:42 |
| Theuni1 | You did. Doesn't mean I like the result, but I know what not to do ;) | 22:42 |
| * Theuni1 tries to use that smiley less often but it's really hard | 22:42 | |
| J1m | Now you | 22:42 |
| J1m | Now you're taunting me with winks | 22:43 |
| Theuni1 | I know. I think my fingers type that without thinking by now. There. I almost did it again. ;) | 22:43 |
| Theuni1 | Dang! | 22:43 |
| * J1m wonders if Theuni1 really likes the result or doesn't know what to do, or both. | 22:43 | |
| Theuni1 | I don't like the result, but I know what to do. | 22:44 |
| Theuni1 | Which I'm fine with. | 22:44 |
| Theuni1 | J1m: looks like the storage server doesn't have too much information about the conflict when it logs it. Do you feel that it would be helpful if it logged the object's class name that was conflicting? | 22:49 |
| Theuni1 | In that case I might dig deeper, but I have the feeling the code paths are too far away to do this without a serious performance penalty or restructuring. | 22:49 |
| J1m | I don't think the storage server should log anything about conflicts. | 22:50 |
| J1m | If it does now, which wouldn't surprise me, then I'd consider that a bug. | 22:50 |
| Theuni1 | Hmm. Then there's a bit of buggyness there. :) | 22:50 |
| J1m | In general, I don't think servers should log events that are not their fault. | 22:50 |
| J1m | Could be, we often get logging wrong. | 22:51 |
| J1m | I know ZODB often does. | 22:51 |
| J1m | Jim's principal of information: present information to parties that can act on it. | 22:52 |
| Theuni1 | Ok, so my task moves around a bit: the server shouldn't log that, but then I'd need to make sure that the client does because *someone* needs to log the info that there was a conflict. | 22:52 |
| J1m | If there's a conflict, it's a problem for the client. | 22:52 |
| J1m | Yes. | 22:52 |
| Theuni1 | Does ZEO propagate the information that there was a conflict back to the client? | 22:52 |
| J1m | Of course, if you have the oid, you can get the class. | 22:52 |
| J1m | yes | 22:52 |
| Theuni1 | alright then. | 22:52 |
| J1m | Getting the class is icky, especially on the server. | 22:53 |
| Theuni1 | yeah, just doing that look up in that part of the code felt wrong right away | 22:53 |
| J1m | I'd rather the server not do that. | 22:53 |
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| Theuni1 | OTOH if the client has an oid that conflicted its probably cheap to get the class | 22:53 |
| J1m | yes | 22:53 |
| * Theuni1 goes off writing a bug | 22:54 | |
| J1m | The bigger problem is that the log messages don't contain database names. | 22:54 |
| Theuni1 | that, too | 22:54 |
| J1m | Which is a hassle when you use multiple dbs, as we often do. | 22:54 |
| J1m | which means the oid isn't enough to get the class. | 22:55 |
| Theuni1 | if you have the corresponding connection around it should be enough | 22:55 |
| J1m | YOu can usually figure it out, but it would be better to have the db name too. | 22:55 |
| Theuni1 | because that already knows which DB you're talking about | 22:55 |
| Theuni1 | but you're talking about logging now | 22:55 |
| J1m | yes, but that doesn't help when you're looking at the logs. | 22:55 |
| J1m | I'd much rather have the db name than the class. | 22:56 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: WRT the ZODB docs: I think an e-mail to foundation-info would be fine: we can then vote to incorporate those docs as falling under an exception to the "only commit your own stuff" rule | 22:58 |
| TresEquis | J1m: the tool I'm using for "on-the-fly" checking is pyflakes | 22:58 |
| TresEquis | which can run inside both vim and emacs | 22:58 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: OK. So I could proxy for amk, for example? | 22:59 |
| TresEquis | and highlights common mistakes like unused imports, name errors, unused names, etc | 22:59 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: yes, I think so | 22:59 |
| Theuni1 | k | 22:59 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: mind putting that on the agenda? i'm not sure i have my edit rights accessible. | 23:00 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: don | 23:05 |
| TresEquis | done | 23:05 |
| Theuni1 | thanks! | 23:05 |
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| TresEquis | J1m: wrt PEP 8, I think the prescriptions on naming are weird | 23:07 |
| TresEquis | especially the preference for lowercasewithoutunderscores | 23:07 |
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| TresEquis | over lowercase_with_underscores or mixedCase | 23:10 |
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| Theuni1 | TresEquis: for what class of names? | 23:17 |
| Theuni1 | my reading of pep 8 recommends using underscores for readability on attribute, function and method names. | 23:18 |
| TKtiddle | TresEquis: Charlie_X: getting to grips with zope finally, thanks for the support Everyone! | 23:21 |
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| J1m | TresEquis, the thing I wasn't remembering (and still can't remember) wasn't naming related. I just remember you mentioning it to me and thinking "oh yeah, that's really dumb." :) | 23:27 |
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| TresEquis | hmm, I can't remember either | 23:31 |
| TresEquis | running pep8.py over any sizable chunk of my code would probably bring it back, though ;) | 23:31 |
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