IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-06-01

*** sm has quit IRC00:15
*** TresEquis has quit IRC00:19
*** tarek has joined #zope00:29
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC00:30
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope00:30
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC00:30
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope00:31
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC00:31
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope00:33
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC00:33
*** JaRoel|4_ has joined #zope00:33
*** Hypergraphe has quit IRC00:40
*** davisagli is now known as davisagli|away00:44
*** dunny has joined #zope00:44
*** ccomb has quit IRC00:47
*** MJ has quit IRC00:55
*** r0ver has joined #zope01:20
*** mr_jolly has left #zope01:21
*** giampaolo has joined #zope01:22
*** menesis has joined #zope01:23
*** JaRoel|4_ has quit IRC01:23
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope01:24
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC01:24
*** fredvd has joined #zope01:31
*** sashav has quit IRC01:37
*** MrTango has quit IRC01:47
*** menesis has quit IRC01:59
*** tarek has quit IRC02:15
*** giampaolo has quit IRC02:21
*** dayne has quit IRC02:31
planetzopebotProducts.ColorField 0.3.1 (PyPI recent updates)
*** r0ver has left #zope02:57
*** fredvd has quit IRC03:12
*** mcdonc has joined #zope04:13
*** dayne has joined #zope04:21
*** RichardBarrell has quit IRC04:24
*** allisterb has quit IRC04:44
*** aaronv has quit IRC04:45
*** davisagli|away is now known as davisagli05:07
*** Ariel_Calzada has joined #zope05:07
*** Ariel_Calzada has left #zope05:08
*** davisagli is now known as davisagli|away05:10
*** davisagli|away is now known as davisagli05:10
*** redir has quit IRC05:10
*** redir has joined #zope05:17
*** allisterb has joined #zope05:20
*** r0ver has joined #zope05:29
*** mr_jolly has joined #zope05:30
*** r0ver has left #zope05:35
*** davisagli is now known as davisagli|away05:37
*** hever has quit IRC05:41
*** Ariel_Calzada has joined #zope06:00
*** Ariel_Calzada has left #zope06:00
*** alecm has joined #zope06:03
*** davisagli|away is now known as davisagli06:05
*** mr_jolly has left #zope06:06
*** davisagli is now known as davisagli|away06:07
*** mr_jolly has joined #zope06:13
*** mr_jolly has left #zope06:18
*** alecm has quit IRC06:35
*** redir has quit IRC06:46
*** dayne has quit IRC06:59
*** alecm has joined #zope07:04
*** alecm has quit IRC07:10
*** ignas has joined #zope07:18
*** redir has joined #zope07:20
*** CIA-94 has quit IRC07:20
*** digitalmortician has quit IRC07:21
*** redir has quit IRC07:24
*** mr_jolly has joined #zope07:30
*** mr_jolly has left #zope07:32
*** redir has joined #zope07:46
*** redir has quit IRC07:54
*** CIA-94 has joined #zope07:55
*** huajie has joined #zope07:58
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope08:14
*** huajie has quit IRC08:14
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC08:14
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope08:26
*** vipod has joined #zope08:30
*** Theuni2 has joined #zope08:31
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC08:31
*** huajie has joined #zope08:52
*** d2m has joined #zope08:59
*** wosc has joined #zope09:05
*** phimic has joined #zope09:11
*** __mac__ has joined #zope09:11
*** Theuni2 has quit IRC09:19
*** vipod has quit IRC09:27
*** vipod has joined #zope09:29
*** bigkevmcd has joined #zope09:39
*** __mac__ has quit IRC09:41
*** __mac__ has joined #zope09:41
*** zagy has joined #zope09:41
CIA-94janjaapdriessen * r112877 /Sandbox/janjaapdriessen/buildbot/buildout.cfg: mail the zope2, zope2.12 and ztk build results to the zope-tests mailing list09:44
*** hever has joined #zope09:47
*** tisto has joined #zope09:47
*** sashav has joined #zope09:54
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope09:55
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope10:03
*** agroszer has joined #zope10:06
*** hever has quit IRC10:07
*** sim_sim has joined #zope10:10
*** ignas has quit IRC10:14
*** neo|4D has joined #zope10:25
*** __mac__ has quit IRC10:25
*** tisto_ has joined #zope10:26
*** tisto has quit IRC10:26
*** __mac__ has joined #zope10:26
*** smita has joined #zope10:28
*** tisto_ is now known as tisto10:28
*** shywolf9982 has joined #zope10:30
*** planetzopebot has quit IRC10:33
*** planetzopebot has joined #zope10:34
*** __mac__ has quit IRC10:36
*** __mac__ has joined #zope10:40
*** hever has joined #zope10:41
CIA-94janjaapdriessen * r112878 /Sandbox/janjaapdriessen/buildbot/buildout.cfg: always mail build results.10:44
*** regebro has joined #zope10:47
*** goschtl has joined #zope10:48
*** tarek has joined #zope10:49
*** neo|4D has quit IRC10:56
*** neo|4D has joined #zope10:57
*** ccomb has joined #zope10:58
*** MatthewWilkes has joined #zope11:03
*** MrTango has joined #zope11:05
*** tarek has quit IRC11:11
*** tarek has joined #zope11:15
*** ignas has joined #zope11:19
*** menesis has joined #zope11:25
*** huajie has quit IRC11:46
*** MJ has joined #zope12:08
*** Charlie_X has joined #zope12:09
Charlie_XTheuni1: here?12:10
Charlie_XDu machst heute wieder Einladung usw?12:10
*** mr_jolly has joined #zope12:11
*** mgedmin has joined #zope12:14
*** neo|4D has quit IRC12:33
*** giampaolo has joined #zope12:36
*** evilbungle has joined #zope12:38
*** teix has joined #zope12:45
*** agroszer has quit IRC12:46
CIA-94janwijbrand * r112879 grokcore.view/ (3 files in 3 dirs): accept and pass on status and trusted arguments to the redirect method12:49
CIA-94janwijbrand 1.13 * r112880 grokcore.view/ (4 files in 3 dirs): port the bugfix for accepting and passing on the status and redirect arguments to the redirect method12:49
CIA-94janwijbrand 1.13 * r112881 grokcore.view/ (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 1.13.412:49
CIA-94janwijbrand * r112882 /grokcore.view/tags/1.13.4: Tagging 1.13.412:49
*** mr_jolly has left #zope12:50
Theuni1Charlie_X: einladung mach ich, ich weiss nicht ob ich da sein kann12:52
*** goschtl has quit IRC12:52
Charlie_XIch bin auf jeden Fall dabei, nachdem ich letzte Woche auf dem Fahrrad saß...12:54
*** emrojo has joined #zope12:57
CIA-94janwijbrand 1.13 * r112883 grokcore.view/ (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 1.13.513:03
*** tarek has quit IRC13:03
planetzopebotSorrento Sprint Summary - collective.amberjack progress report (RedTurtle Technology)
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC13:06
*** Arfrever has joined #zope13:07
*** new has joined #zope13:08
newhow can iinclude ZPT in disk based product?13:09
*** agroszer has joined #zope13:14
CIA-94jim * r112884 /Sandbox/J1m/zodb-doc/intro.txt: *** empty log message ***13:18
CIA-94jim * r112885 /Sandbox/J1m/zodb-doc/object-life-cycle.dia:13:18
CIA-94jim * r112886 /Sandbox/J1m/zodb-doc/object-life-cycle.png:13:18
*** lcpfnvc has quit IRC13:20
*** new has quit IRC13:28
*** evilbungle has quit IRC13:28
*** evilbungle has joined #zope13:32
*** tisto is now known as tisto|lunch13:37
betabugby having some patience and waiting for a reply if you ask a question?13:44
bigkevmcdit's not like there's any existing products that use zpts...13:46
betabughey big guy13:47
bigkevmcdhey betabug13:48
bigkevmcdhow's yersel?13:48
betabughungry, awaiting lunch :-)13:48
betabugI have a muffin here, but eating it before lunch would be cheating13:50
Charlie_XIs it really a muffin? Or just a bun?13:51
*** agroszer has quit IRC13:53
*** aaronv has joined #zope13:55
*** eperez has joined #zope13:57
*** evilbungle has quit IRC14:02
betabughow do I know?14:03
betabugI'm trying not to look at it right now14:03
*** TresEquis has joined #zope14:04
*** evilbungle has joined #zope14:04
*** menesis has quit IRC14:04
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC14:04
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope14:06
Charlie_XIf it's sweet it's a bun. Google for oven bottom muffins14:10
betabugI guess then it's a bun, cuz it has chocolate14:11
betabugshall I sue the bakery for selling me a bun labelled "muffin"?14:11
Charlie_XNo, but a stern look is probably a good idea. tsk, tsk14:12
*** goschtl has joined #zope14:15
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC14:21
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope14:22
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC14:23
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope14:24
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope14:29
*** d2m has quit IRC14:36
*** d2m has joined #zope14:38
*** rodgort has quit IRC14:40
*** rodgort has joined #zope14:40
*** neo|4D has joined #zope14:42
*** TresEquis has quit IRC14:43
mupBug #588260 was filed: Support unittest2 class and module fixtures <zope.testrunner:New> <>14:44
*** benji has joined #zope14:54
*** sashav has quit IRC14:58
*** evilbungle has quit IRC15:06
*** evilbungle has joined #zope15:06
*** aaronv has quit IRC15:17
*** TresEquis has joined #zope15:18
*** menesis has joined #zope15:19
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC15:22
*** tisto|lunch is now known as tisto15:30
*** cwarner has joined #zope15:33
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope15:57
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC15:59
*** smita has quit IRC16:07
*** redir has joined #zope16:10
*** smita has joined #zope16:10
*** aaronv has joined #zope16:10
*** zagy has quit IRC16:11
*** wiggy has joined #zope16:12
*** redir has quit IRC16:14
*** aaronv has quit IRC16:14
*** agroszer has joined #zope16:15
heverHow can I manipulate "Metadata Contents" for a catalog record ?16:18
betabugset the relevant attributes on your objects, recatalog them16:18
heverhmm. If I'm going to remove all data for an attribute of all objects, how can I do that?16:20
betabugwhy not just remove the metadata column in the catalog?16:21
betabugotherwise you'd have to find all objects and loop through them16:21
heveryes I thought of this, and then readd id ?16:21
betabugsorry, didn't understand that?16:21
*** aaronv has joined #zope16:22
heverI'm going to set all values to 0. So I can remove the metadata column and re-add it after I removed it ?16:22
Charlie_XThat will work16:22
betabugif you set all values anyway, you don't need to remove the column16:22
betabugyou can just reindex the catalog16:23
betabugyou can even reindex only the metadata, see some code examples here:
heverThere are a lot of objects, so I'm not going to change them all manually. Removing and readding the metadata column seems the easiest solution.16:23
betabugit won't change anything if the objects don't change16:24
betabugunless you plan to never reindex stuff16:24
heverhmm... so I have to write some code that does this for me and zope/plone can't help me with this....16:25
Charlie_XYou could use the catalogue search to get you all your objects so you can change the metadata.16:25
betabugI think you should state your objective clearer, that will probably get your head out of having to hunt for weird workarounds :-)16:26
betabugwhat are you really trying to do?16:26
Charlie_XWhat do you want Zope to do? It's your job to update the metadata. The catalogue just reflects that.16:26
betabugmetadata in the catalog and attribute on the object have a very good reason to show the same thing?16:26
heverErasing the count of the EasyRatings product.16:27
Charlie_XSounds like a feature request for EasyRatings16:27
betabugand sounds like plain resetting the catalog metadata column will just live till the next edit of the object16:28
Charlie_XIf that is a Plone product, changing the metadata could be a bit tricky thanks to the curse of archetypes.16:28
heversure but this is not realistic.16:28
bigkevmcdin fairness, it would be funny if the catalog reflected a totally different value from the object :-)16:28
betabugso the rating will show 0, till someone votes, then it'll jump to 516:28
bigkevmcdhever: so, write a script to change that value16:28
bigkevmcdhever: should be fairly easy to do16:28
Charlie_XDead easy16:29
betabugchilds play16:30
betabugin fact I'd be doing it for you, in an IRC window, with one hand tied behind my back, if only... a.) it wasn't plone related and b.) I wasn't about to eat this muff^H^H^H^Hbun16:31
CIA-94ctheune * r112887 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/ (zope-dev-20100601.rst index.rst): Add today's agenda.16:31
*** wosc has quit IRC16:35
*** zagy has joined #zope16:40
*** zagy has quit IRC16:40
*** zagy has joined #zope16:40
*** zagy has quit IRC16:42
*** Ariel_Calzada has joined #zope16:44
*** Ariel_Calzada has left #zope16:44
*** j-w has joined #zope16:49
j-whi ccomb17:00
j-wno hanno yet?17:00
* ccomb here17:00
ccombhi j-w17:00
CIA-94cklinger * r112888 megrok.z3cform.base/src/megrok/z3cform/base/ ( tests/ added a decorator for button labels17:01
*** hannosch has joined #zope17:01
j-wlook, there he is!17:02
j-whannosch: hi!17:02
hannoschhi, I'm really here in 3 min...17:02
j-whannosch:  ok, we will wait17:02
*** dunny has quit IRC17:03
hannoschok, got water :)17:04
hannoschhi :)17:04
* hannosch applauds ccomb for actually doing lots of stuff17:05
* j-w applauds too17:06
hannoschmmh, j-w you seem to agree with me :))17:06
j-wsorry about that :)17:06
* ccomb reading the last mails17:06
*** dayne has joined #zope17:06
hannoschIf we agree that's awesome, makes things simpler :)17:07
*** davisagli|away has quit IRC17:07
ccombok, it seems the splitting is not optimal17:07
j-wwhile working on the grok1.1.1 release last week, where we use a "gtk", I found that much of the things you said were actually true in practice17:07
*** rodgort has quit IRC17:07
j-wso, while working on the "gtk" I could try some of the ideas we had for the ZTK itself17:07
hannoschwell, I have some release experience from Plone - I got some insights into lazy developers minds17:08
j-wand as a result there's that does what we thinkthe ZTK release should provide as well (right?)17:08
j-whannosch: sure :-)17:08
j-wBTW, we formally start the meeting?17:09
ccombit seems so :)17:09
hannoschyes, we should17:09
j-wsomeone taking notes and such...?17:09
ccombj-w: ? :P17:09
j-wok :)17:09
j-wjust a moment17:09
* j-w opening editor17:09
ccombotherwise I'm always logging all channels17:10
*** ajmitch has quit IRC17:10
*** MrWu has joined #zope17:10
ccombconcerning the experiments I've been doing in my branch17:10
j-wccomb, hannosch you agree on last meeting notes?17:10
ccombthe one two weeks ago?17:11
j-w(ccomb thanks for the addtions btw)17:11
hannosch+1 on last notes (2010-05-18)17:11
ccomb+1 too17:12
j-wbefore we get to ccomb work, let's look at the tasks from that meeting, ok?17:12
j-wjanjaap worked on the buildbot testing the ztk (and other things)17:12
heverbetabug, how can I access the meta data? it's not getProperty...17:12
j-wit should be sending reports to the zope-test address as of today17:13
betabughever: the metadata in the catalog? or what is on the object?17:13
hannoschcool, so starting tomorrow we should have results for Windows?17:13
j-wthe 64bit-windows is still missing from it though17:13
heverbetabug, oh sry. the data on the object17:13
j-whannosch: that's the idea17:14
hannoschj-w: right, I think we are waiting on the zope foundation msdn licences for the 64bit machines17:14
betabughever: just a simple getattr(object, 'attrname', 'default value if needed')17:14
agroszerhannosch, nope, just on the virtual server financing17:14
j-wthe 64-bit windows has to wait though, from janjaaps part - we're rather busy from this week on...17:14
agroszerhannosch, they should decide tomorrow17:14
hannoschagroszer: that's your part, this is janjapp who already has a buildout infrrastructure on VMWare17:15
betabughever: maybe testing if it's a method and calling it if necessary17:15
betabughever: e.g. res = callable(res) and res() or res17:15
j-whannosch, ccomb  I'll leave this task in the minutes though, until we indeed see the mails comming in17:15
hannoschj-w: sounds good17:15
agroszeremmm, we're talking about ZTK egg building and buildbots or not?17:15
hannoschsure. there's two efforts for that17:16
hannoschyours and janjaaps17:16
j-wto what extend are these efforts overlapping?17:16
hannoschto some degree, they both depend on the msdn licences to some degree17:17
agroszernaah, why do we need msdn licences?17:17
*** hannosch has quit IRC17:17
*** hannosch has joined #zope17:17
* hannosch has a bit of a had wifi17:17
j-whannosch:  I do think we do have a windows license we could use for a 64-bit vm17:17
j-whannosch: within The Health Agency that is17:18
hannoschj-w: ok, that would be good. I think we still want the msdn stuff to get compilers17:18
agroszerVS express is free17:18
agroszereven for business uses17:18
j-wour buildbot have intentionally no compilers installed17:18
*** hannosch has quit IRC17:18
*** hannosch has joined #zope17:18
heverbetabug, I'm getting 0 for all objects...
j-wto test whether the released packages actually work for the general "consumer"17:19
agroszerj-w, that's a good point17:19
betabughever: you're doing hasattr, not getattr17:19
heveryes to check if it has such an attr17:20
*** janjaap has joined #zope17:20
betabughever: other than that, I can't help, I don't know your objects or environment17:20
janjaaphi there17:20
heverbecause as I used getattr I got an error and I thought ok perhaps sometimes it doesn't exist so lets check its existance first...17:20
betabughever: that's what the default value is for17:20
j-wccomb: I think your "task" from the last meeting is done, right?17:21
betabugbut make sure you have the name of the attribute right17:21
betabugthat's the obvious mistake to make17:21
j-wwhere you would revive the ZTK buildbot yourself too17:21
betabugbesides running plone, ofcoz17:21
hannoschj-w, agroszer: should we discuss all details of windows now? or should we discuss that during the zope-dev meeting / via mail? I'd like to talk about the ZTK version files17:21
heverBut I'm just going to reset the value where it already exists....17:21
heverthe name is correct.17:21
agroszerhannosch, move on, let's take this offline17:22
ccombj-w: my task was to check for bluebream versions17:22
j-wthe win64 dicussion should be outside of this meeting I'd say17:22
betabugdunno then, maybe the objects aren't where you are looking?17:22
betabugprint out the objects id and other data to check in your loop17:22
*** fdrake has joined #zope17:22
ccombj-w: hannosch I've actually synced bb versions to ztk17:22
ccombbut ztk has changed again yet17:23
hannoschj-w, ccomb: ok, so what exactly are we talking about now?17:23
ccombprevious tasks17:23
heverbetabug, yes the objects are present...17:23
hannoschccomb: so this one: "Make sure we have a buildbot testing the ZTK releases (and not SVN) [ccomb]" ?17:24
heverbetabug, can I dump the object in some way?17:24
ccombah yes, this one17:24
ccombdone too17:24
j-wyes, marked as done17:24
hannoschdone, awesome, +1 move on :)17:24
j-wnext point is the comparission of the "Tres" list against the bb, z2 and grok17:25
betabughever: not really, just do a getId() on it and maybe a title_or_id() and see what you get17:25
heverbetabug, yes I did and that looks good17:25
betabughever: no idea, check the code of those objects then17:25
hannoschj-w, ccomb: ok. I haven't actually looked at that list. but I think we can talk about ccomb's branch17:25
j-wwhere I have to admint not too much progress yet17:25
j-wI agree17:25
j-wI'll leave the task though17:25
ccombsorry I've not compared bb list with tres list, but with ztk list17:25
j-wand we can move on too ccomb's work17:26
hannoschok. leave the task, now the branch17:26
hannoschdid we all read up on all the mails?17:26
ccombit seems there are 2 issues17:26
ccomb1) keeping the dependencies close to the ztk17:26
ccombit's not done now17:27
ccomb2) extra.cfg17:27
ccombhannosch you told that you didn't need these extra packages17:27
ccombso we need to carefully isolate them, so that you don't have to use the17:27
hannoschright, have a look at
* j-w looking17:28
hannoschand imagine the # ZTK stuff would be coming from an extends = ztk-versions.cfg17:28
ccombwith deps inside it?17:28
j-wincluding # ZTK dependencies and # ZODB dependencies right?17:28
hannoschand maybe even "toolchain"17:29
ccombok, however in my use case I'm using most of extra libraries17:29
ccombso I need a way to be sure the ztk and these libraries are tested together as well17:29
*** cwarner_ has joined #zope17:29
j-wso, basically we should keep it like
hannoschccomb: sure, but Zope2's extras would be five.formlib, plone.z3cform and so on, Grok has other packages17:30
ccombso let's include everything, a large extra list17:30
ccombotherwise, some packages will be duplicated in grok or bb or maybe z217:30
hannoschccomb: that doesn't make sense to me. each of our communities should take care of their extras17:30
j-wI'm sorry I still do not understand the name "extras" here...17:31
ccombsome extras are common, such as z3c.form17:31
j-wthe ZTK has no extras if you'd ask me17:31
j-weven iff bb and grok both would use z3c.form17:31
hannoschj-w: exactly, extra is anything outside the ZTK17:31
j-wthey would list that in their own versions list I'd say17:31
hannoschit's a term we can use to talk about those other packages17:31
ccombmy only concern is not adding them in the ztk, but including these libs in the testing infrastructure17:32
j-wlike so:
ccombso that we have a big picture, with all the ztk and extra libs17:32
j-wthat's grok "extra" list17:32
hannoschccomb: we sent test reports for Zope2 and BB to the tests lists17:32
hannoschand I think Grok too or soon17:32
j-wah, that would be an idea17:32
j-wthat would be a good solution I'd say17:33
*** seppo14 has joined #zope17:33
ccombwhich ?17:33
hannoschwe should see the breakage, but it's the responsibility of the "consumer community" to look and diagnose the problem17:33
ccombyeah exactly17:33
ccombwe must not depend on extra tests to release17:33
j-wright - I think we agree here17:33
hannoschok, then we don't need to put them into the ZTK section at all17:33
hannoschwe have BBKit, GTK and Z2K for that17:34
ccombin my branch, the extra.cfg is completely separated17:34
ccombyou can run the buildout.cfg, which build ztk + zopeapp17:34
j-wso the ZTk will be ztk-(verions).cfg and zopeapp(-versions).cfg17:34
hannoschright. I just don't want to have it at all17:34
seppo14hi guys… i'm using zope on macos and have a lot of problems with "ValueError: A different object already has the same oid" when saving binary blobs. any ideas on this? (ZOPE: (2.12.5, python 2.6.1, darwin) PYTHON: 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Feb 11 2010, 00:51:29) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)])17:34
ccombbut does it hurt to have this separated extra.cfg file?17:35
seppo14no probs with the same scripts on a Debian system17:35
j-wccomb: I'm just not sure it would be maintained17:35
hannoschyes. it means people will talk about it, argue about what should be in it and so on17:35
ccombit can be the responsibility of the package owners?17:35
hannoschit won't be. as soon as it exists people will talk about it and lots of issues will come up17:36
ccombsomeone creating a package would just have to add it in the extra so that it is tested beside others17:36
ccombbut it's independent from the ztk17:36
hannoschthen it should be independent of the ztk in every way17:36
j-wccomb: and as a result I'd say let's get rid of it17:37
j-wexactly because it is separate17:37
hannoschcreate a new project "zope community tests" - people might help in that17:37
j-wand grok is maintaining an "extra" list anyway, like z2 and bb17:37
ccombthe goal is to avoid replicating test efforts17:37
ccomband to test community packages against the current ztk17:38
hannoschwe all have slightly different version sets, environments and code, it's not completely duplicated17:38
hannoschand I'm not against such a project, I think it's a good idea, I just don't want to have it mixed into the ZTK17:38
*** hannosch has quit IRC17:39
*** hannosch has joined #zope17:39
j-wccomb: would you be against separating extra's into a community toolkit project?17:39
ccombI see this as an additional effort17:39
ccombit's already separated, excepted that the extra file is in the zopetoolkit folder17:40
hannoschif it's already separated that much, it shouldn't be hard to separate it completely17:40
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope17:41
ccombyes, it means creating yet another project17:41
j-wto put it differently, I think grok will only use ztk-versions.cfg and zopeapp-versions.cfg for now at least17:41
j-wwhere zopeapp usage will get smaller and smaller17:41
hannoschZope2 only uses ztk-versions.cfg - I just won't make any time commitment to extras.cfg17:41
j-w(but not completely gone )17:42
ccombhannosch: you don't need to17:42
hannoschas soon as it is part of the ZTK in some way, I'll have to17:42
ccombin which way17:42
ccombbuildouts and versions files will be independant17:42
hannoschread commit logs, listen to mailing list conversations complaining about failing tests17:43
ccombI see this as a positive effect17:43
hannoschtalking about process about what should be in the file and what shouldn't17:43
ccombit will force people to look at why other tests are failing17:43
hannoschno, they will ignore all tests instead17:43
ccomband if some changes in the ZTK and breaks another libs, it will be more visible17:43
*** davisagli|away has joined #zope17:44
hannoschpeople only commit time to specific packages they actually use, if you have a large open list, nobody feels responsible at all anymore17:44
*** davisagli|away is now known as davisagli17:44
*** rodgort has joined #zope17:45
wiggyas proof I've had the zope and plone testrunner emails send to /dev/null for a long time17:45
hannoschif you keep the scope small, people are willing to look after some additional packages, but lazyness and time-constraints kick in quickly17:45
j-whannosch: ccomb we have decided on how to get out of a long running discussion in ealrlier mails17:46
hannoschI want to keep the scope of the ZTK small, so people might actually care about it17:46
j-wand that was to vote, amke *a* decission and see what happens17:46
ccombmmmh ok let's get rid of extra.cfg17:46
j-weven if that would mean reverting our earlier decission17:46
ccombbut the ztk definition of extra must be removed as well17:46
hannoschthat's fine with me. the whole term is really fuzzy17:47
ccomba "virtual" concept is not a concept17:47
j-wccomb: what will be removed where?17:47
hannoschI volunteer to update the documentation17:47
hannoschI can make a branch / patch and we can discuss it in the next meeting?17:48
*** ajmitch has joined #zope17:48
*** ajmitch has joined #zope17:48
j-wyou'd make a branch of the zopetoolkit?17:48
j-wor of the coreextra doc?17:48
hannoscheh, right. a patch is easier I'd guess17:48
ccombI can update my branch to reflect this17:48
ccombI need to move some packages from extra-versions.cfg to ztk-versions.cfg17:49
hannoschccomb: the docs live outside the /trunk /branches17:49
hannosch - there's no trunk, branch structure for those17:50
ccombhannosch: ok , update it directly17:50
ccombI'll update the list files17:50
hannoschok, we have SVN to revert to earlier versions - should I screw up17:51
hannoschok, so ccomb updates the branch so we don't have the extras file anymore, I update the docs - some nice tasks17:51
j-wand me...? ;)17:51
j-wI'll keep bugging jj17:52
hannoschyou write the meeting notes ;)17:52
j-wok, any point left for today?17:52
hannoschthere's some packages left in under-review "zope.html" and such17:52
j-wright right17:52
ccombI had removed this in my branch17:53
hannoschright. I don't want them in ztk.cfg17:53
j-wwe wanted to find a way to determine their validity in the ZTK17:53
ccombfor me, under-review means, "outside the ztk"17:53
ccombso I had put it in the extra :P17:53
j-wlet's start with that aproach17:53
hannoschok, so remove all under-review and unresolved-dependencies for now?17:54
hannoschunresolved-dependencies weren't actually tested at all17:54
j-wnot sure about two packages17:54
j-wzope.testbrowser and zope.modulealias17:55
j-wesp. zope.testbrowser17:55
j-wwhy is it in unresolved-deps?17:55
hannoschright. zope.testbrowser is used in Zope217:55
j-wand can/should we fix that?17:55
j-wand in grok17:55
hannoschit had dependencies17:55
j-wright, ok17:55
hannoschj-w: you want to check if it still has such dependencies?17:55
*** astoon has joined #zope17:56
j-wi'll compare the others too against grok17:56
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC17:56
hannoschok, looks like zope.modulealias doesn't have outside dependencies17:57
hannoschI'd be fine to just include it - it has been tested against the ztk all along17:57
*** phimic has quit IRC17:57
hannoschok, j-w looks into those dependencies. schedule next meeting?17:58
j-win grok we're trying to move from zope.testbrowser to
j-wnext week, or rather in two weeks?17:58
j-wwhat do you want?17:58
hannoschI'm fine with next week17:59
hannoschwe should have something to talk about17:59
j-wlet's try that17:59
j-wccomb: agreed?17:59
ccombsorry, back17:59
ccombnext week I'm not available18:00
j-win two weeks then?18:00
ccombfor june maybe we should doodle, because I'm doing some trainings18:00
* Charlie_X rings the bell18:01
ccombor we should have the meeting in the evening18:01
hannoschok, ccomb you create a doodle?18:01
j-wevening would be fine with me18:01
* hannosch is flexible18:01
j-wevening of 16th?18:01
*** lurker has joined #zope18:01
j-w15th I mean18:01
j-wsay around 20:00?18:02
Charlie_XI believe this room is booked!18:02
ccomb15th evening ok18:02
j-w(kids put to bed etc. ;)18:02
hannosch+1 on 15th evening18:02
j-wthanks guys!18:02
hannoschthanks much!18:02
*** MJ has quit IRC18:02
j-wCharlie_X:  we ate the cookies again18:02
* ccomb cleans up the room and gets out18:02
agroszerhannosch, you got the ball regarding the win64 stuff?18:03
j-wthe whiteboard markers are empty btw18:03
* hannosch gets new coffee and prepares for next meegin18:03
* j-w lurks along18:03
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope18:03
hannoschagroszer: not really. it would be best if you could talk to janjaap directly18:03
j-wagroszer: what I will do is together with janjaap see about a win64 *without* compiler to test the ZTK18:04
j-wand have that mail test reports as well18:04
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC18:04
j-wdoes that make sense/help?18:04
hannoschCharlie_X: you need to be more aggressive to get us out ;)18:04
Charlie_XGod, it's like the bloody House of Commons here! Order, order! I will have order!18:04
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope18:04
Charlie_XTheuni1: has asked me to convene again.18:05
agroszerj-w, sure, we're (I) aiming to do binary egg building for win32+win64 and buildbots for the same18:05
agroszerj-w, let's see whether the foundation pays for the server18:05
*** dayne has quit IRC18:05
agroszerj-w, that's the turning point18:06
j-wagroszer: right, ok, even we need more coordination let's take that up by mail, ok?18:06
agroszerj-w, sure18:06
agroszerCharlie_X, first point?18:06
Charlie_XAccording to the agenda it's related to documentation. Something that Theuni1 wanted to discuss with TresEquis.18:07
agroszerj-w, we should know more on the 3rd18:07
Charlie_XTresEquis: hereß18:07
Charlie_Xhm, TresEquis and Theuni1 both not around. I must admit I don't really understand the item.18:08
agroszerCharlie_X, I guess:18:09
Charlie_XWhat is "floating documentation"?18:09
agroszerthere's a lot of doc around, here and there18:09
agroszerthat means you have to have plenty of luck to find something18:09
Charlie_XThat's true.18:10
hannoschstuff hidden in packages, in doctests, some on PyPi pages18:10
wiggyalmost all of it hard to read18:10
wiggyand the wiki18:10
agroszerlet's first gather stuff18:10
agroszerif we want to rewrite it at the same time, it's never gonna finish18:10
TresEquisCharlie_X: oops, I'm here18:11
hannoschI think Sphinx as a tool and as a location would work really well18:11
Charlie_XCool, TresEquis, you have the floor.18:11
TresEquisthe idea was to move the various wiki docs and others in places like to Sphinx18:11
agroszeryes please!18:12
Charlie_X+lots on that.18:12
Charlie_X"How" is probably the tricky part. Suggestions?18:12
TresEquisthis is in addition to moving to a pattern where our main packages use Sphinx docs by default, which get linked into docs.zope.org18:12
TresEquisincrementally, I think18:12
TresEquisfolks need to identify documentation resources which are "valuable", and then work with their current owners to get them moved18:13
Charlie_XCan we do any filtering or flagging of stuff that needs migrating?18:13
TresEquisleaving behind links / redirects to the new Sphinx-based URLs18:13
Charlie_XMaybe a special tag for launchpad?18:13
TresEquisI think most of the useful docs are out in the wild, not in SVN18:14
TresEquisbut moving a package forward on that front is useful, too18:14
Charlie_XAnd, as someone who hasn't got a clue about this, an introduction?18:14
*** dayne has joined #zope18:14
TresEquison writing the docs?18:15
hannoschwhere would this go? into a new subversion location to act as a general docs section? something like ?18:15
Charlie_XPossibly, yes.18:15
TresEquis is pretty good for Sphinx docs18:15
TresEquisThe existing stuff from SVN  has buildouts which install Sphinx for you18:16
*** hannosch has quit IRC18:17
*** hannosch_ has joined #zope18:17
*** hannosch_ is now known as hannosch18:17
TresEquislikely we could start a wiki page on obsoleting wiki ;)18:17
TresEquisand gather links of candidate docs there18:17
*** alecm has joined #zope18:18
hannoschsounds liks TresEquis wants to lead this effort ;)18:18
Charlie_XOkay. So this is would start as a wiki to ReST migration? Surely that could be automated?18:19
TresEquisIt isn't worth automating18:19
TresEquishuman selection / editing / gardening is part of the point18:19
TresEquiswinnowing out cruft, etc18:19
TresEquiswe want quality, not quantity18:20
Charlie_Xah, the difficult stuff.18:20
hannoschyep, I remember the Zope2 book conversion, just having to manually go over things was quite good - you spotted lots of outdated stuff18:20
TresEquisI think we can let this ride until next time, if we have another topic18:20
Charlie_XSigh, I had been hoping my twitterbot would be able to help. ;-) It's not well-known for quality.18:21
Charlie_XWe do have another topic - releases.18:21
TresEquisone metric for unreleased changes is to review 'fixcommitted' bugs on LP18:22
hannoschis there a concrete problem with the current release practice?18:22
TresEquisand target them to milestones18:22
TresEquisI think there is a worry that we have stuff falling through the cracks18:22
TresEquise.g., after a bugday18:22
hannoschok, so this is about not releasing fixes found in SVN18:23
Charlie_Xhannosch: what is the current release practice? I've seen questions on it but nobody point to a URL18:23
hannoschit's wild-west - anyone who cares to ask gets release privileges and uploads new releases18:24
Charlie_XWell, there's something very wrong with that.18:24
hannoschwe agreed on rules for minor / major version number changes and those seem to be followed18:24
TresEquisCharlie_X: process for ZTK packages is
Charlie_Xta, TresEquis18:24
agroszeror zest.releaser seems to do the job too18:25
hannoschit's a bit frightening and uncoordinated, but it seems to work out quite nicely so far18:25
TresEquiswe average fewer brown bags than most projects, with a *lot* more releases18:25
*** seppo14 has left #zope18:25
agroszerin fact, what about including zest.releaser in the ZTK packages buildouts?18:25
hannoschagroszer: it's just one tool, there's others like jarn.mkrelease or just doing it manual18:26
*** dayne has quit IRC18:27
*** zagy has joined #zope18:28
Charlie_XSo, maybe after every bug day we need a release day?18:28
hannoschI think for build helper tools "use the latest" generally works quite well. there's no real need to pin its version18:28
*** zagy has quit IRC18:28
*** zagy has joined #zope18:28
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC18:28
hannoschif it's about bug days, then using the "fix committed" approach should work quite nicely18:28
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope18:29
TresEquisas long as a release-enabled volunteer checks for that status18:29
TresEquison the packages she maintains18:29
agroszerumm, some bot would be nice18:29
TresEquisagroszer: I don't think so18:29
Charlie_XThe bugchecker script can probably already do this.18:29
TresEquisI think humans make choices to defer releases18:30
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC18:30
agroszerTresEquis, don't run it that often18:30
TresEquisand shouldn't be nagged by a bot18:30
agroszerlet's say once a week18:30
*** goschtl has quit IRC18:30
TresEquisCharlie_X: the bugchecker script can definitely do that18:30
hannoschbug checker script sounds like a good fit, to generate a list of "unreleased changes" - it should be seen as a failure, just something you can get a list of18:31
agroszersounds like a consent on the subject18:31
TresEquis$ bin/check-bugs -s "Fix Committed" -g zopetoolkit18:31
*** __mac__ has quit IRC18:32
TresEquisshows a couple in zope.copypastemove18:32
Charlie_XAnd it now has "-m" to send e-mails for added awesomeness18:32
TresEquisplus one each in zope.testbrowser and zope.testrunner18:32
agroszeradd it to a crontab and we're done18:33
TresEquiswe're past time now18:33
TresEquissorry for being tardy18:33
Charlie_XIt's okay the room was full of another group at the start anyway.18:34
Charlie_XHow did your tutorial go at the Plone shindig?18:34
agroszerthe previous guys tend to do overtime ;-)18:34
*** hannosch has quit IRC18:34
*** hannosch has joined #zope18:34
Charlie_XOkay. Meeting's over everyone. I'll post the summary later. hannosch can we expect an update on the ZTK?18:36
hannoschCharlie_X: not next week, we have our next meeting in two weeks18:36
hannoschyou'll see meeting notes pop-up on zope-dev, so you see our discussion. but nothing really to discuss in the wider group18:37
Charlie_Xzope-dev was what I was thinking of. Thanks18:37
*** j-w has quit IRC18:37
*** MJ has joined #zope18:38
*** astoon has quit IRC18:38
*** TresEquis has quit IRC18:41
*** webmaven has joined #zope18:42
*** yvl has quit IRC18:42
*** TresEquis has joined #zope18:42
*** lurker has left #zope18:44
*** wiggy has quit IRC18:49
TresEquisagroszer: I don't think the foundation board has seen a concrete proposal for the build infrastructure stuff yet18:52
*** mgedmin has quit IRC18:57
sim_simHi all. In zope.testing.testrunner it seems that the layer_teardown hook is not called whereas the layer_setup is . Am I missing something ?18:57
*** jim_SFU has joined #zope18:58
*** hannosch has quit IRC18:58
*** hannosch has joined #zope18:58
TresEquissim_sim: there is a bug about teardown not being called in tests which fork a subprocess18:59
mupBug #579019: Layer tearDown isn't called when running more processes <zope.testing:Fix Released by sidnei> <zope.testrunner:Fix Committed by sidnei> <>18:59
sim_simTresEquis, yeah I just saw that, but well I have only one process I think19:00
sim_simBesides I got layers19:00
TresEquiswhich is fixcommitted -- you could try using the zope.testrunner trunk19:00
sim_simTresEquis, Thanks a lot for being so reactive btw :)19:01
TresEquisy w19:02
*** tiwula has joined #zope19:02
TresEquissim_sim: I'm afraid I don't know any more than that19:03
*** hannosch has left #zope19:04
sim_simTresEquis, I have the '3.9.3dev' version, do you think this bug may apply to me ?19:04
*** janjaap has left #zope19:05
sim_simI think yes as the report says : "Looking at the source of zope.testing (3.8.7),"19:05
*** neo|4D has quit IRC19:06
sim_sim3.9.5 (2010-05-19)19:09
sim_sim    * LP #579019: When layers were run in parallel, their tearDown was not called. Additionally, the first layer which was run in the main thread did not have it's tearDown called either.19:09
mupBug #579019: Layer tearDown isn't called when running more processes <zope.testing:Fix Released by sidnei> <zope.testrunner:Fix Committed by sidnei> <>19:09
sim_simall right, that apply to me19:09
sim_simsorry for spamming.19:09
sim_simFirst layer in the main thread.19:09
*** giampaolo has quit IRC19:14
*** redir has joined #zope19:19
*** ignas has quit IRC19:24
sim_simTresEquis, Sorry to bother, is there a mercurial repo of zope.testing somewhere ?19:24
agroszerTresEquis, the proposal is sitting on Theuni1's desk19:33
TresEquissim_sim: not mercurial19:33
TresEquisbut bzr is available19:33
Theuni1TresEquis, agroszer:  i've got it, i'll have it ready for tomorrow's meeting19:33
sim_simokay, thanks19:33
TresEquisTheuni1: thanks19:34
agroszerwhen is the meeting scheduled?19:34
agroszerTresEquis, when is the meeting scheduled tomorrow?19:35
TresEquis12:30 UTC19:36
TresEquison #zope-foundation19:36
*** shen-long has joined #zope19:37
agroszerTheuni1, just in case Stephan forgets, you mind nominating me as a foundation member?19:38
*** MatthewWilkes has quit IRC19:39
*** tisto has quit IRC19:39
*** TresEquis has quit IRC19:45
*** TresEquis has joined #zope19:47
*** daMaestro has joined #zope19:49
*** ccomb has quit IRC19:50
*** touff has quit IRC19:51
*** menesis has quit IRC20:01
*** smita has quit IRC20:01
*** hever has quit IRC20:02
*** eperez has quit IRC20:02
*** TresEquis has quit IRC20:05
*** __mac__ has joined #zope20:06
MJhole-digging time20:10
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC20:10
MJ(converting some garden into veg plots)20:10
*** MJ has quit IRC20:11
*** zenwryly has quit IRC20:29
*** evilbungle has quit IRC20:31
*** zenwryly has joined #zope20:36
*** ccomb has joined #zope20:43
benjiMJ: I think there's an echo in here.20:52
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope20:52
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC20:56
CIA-94jim * r112889 /ZODB/branches/jim-simulation: Try to fix zeo cache simulation21:00
CIA-94jim jim-simulation * r112890 ZODB/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): checkpoint21:00
*** aaronv has quit IRC21:01
*** __mac__ has quit IRC21:07
*** emrojo has quit IRC21:14
*** Epeli has joined #zope21:15
*** __mac__ has joined #zope21:18
*** evilbungle has joined #zope21:20
*** wiggy has joined #zope21:21
*** zagy has quit IRC21:26
*** daMaestro has quit IRC21:26
*** redir has quit IRC21:26
*** MrWu has quit IRC21:26
*** jham has quit IRC21:26
*** daMaestro has joined #zope21:26
*** __mac__ has quit IRC21:27
*** zagy has joined #zope21:27
*** MrWu has joined #zope21:29
*** __mac__ has joined #zope21:29
*** jham has joined #zope21:30
*** __mac__ has quit IRC21:31
*** __mac__ has joined #zope21:32
*** redir has joined #zope21:32
*** MrWu has quit IRC21:34
*** __mac__1 has joined #zope21:35
*** __mac__ has quit IRC21:35
*** TresEquis has joined #zope21:37
*** mcdonc has quit IRC21:43
CIA-94jim jim-simulation * r112891 ZODB/src/ZEO/scripts/ Add interval reporting. The interval needs to be configurable.21:45
*** wiggy has left #zope21:46
*** mcdonc has joined #zope21:46
*** mcdonc has quit IRC21:47
*** mcdonc has joined #zope21:47
*** agroszer has quit IRC21:59
*** sidnei_ is now known as sidnei22:03
*** evilbungle has quit IRC22:10
*** teix has quit IRC22:11
*** menesis has joined #zope22:14
*** Charlie_X has left #zope22:21
*** aaronv has joined #zope22:22
*** __mac__1 has quit IRC22:22
*** evilbungle has joined #zope22:25
*** r0ver has joined #zope22:25
*** runyaga has joined #zope22:43
*** tarek has joined #zope22:48
*** giampaolo has joined #zope23:01
*** zagy has quit IRC23:08
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope23:09
*** davisagli is now known as davisagli|lunch23:11
*** davisagli|lunch is now known as davisagli|really23:21
*** davisagli|really is now known as davisagli23:23
*** d2m has quit IRC23:24
*** shywolf9982 has quit IRC23:33
*** evilbungle has quit IRC23:35
*** shywolf9982 has joined #zope23:40
*** vipod has quit IRC23:58

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!