IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-07-13

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CIA-94jim * r114661 ZODB/src/ZEO/tests/
CIA-94Use print to display tell output to avoid unimportant differences01:03
CIA-94between logs and ints.01:03
CIA-94jim * r114662 ZODB/src/ZEO/ Close input file nefore renaming or removing it.01:03
fdrakeLogs and ints are different; logs are meant to be cast into furniture, or into the fire.01:04
mcdoncints you fry with a magnifying glass01:05
fdrakeRight!  Very different from logs.01:06
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mcdoncjim can be so silly01:12
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CIA-94jim * r114663 ZODB/src/ZODB/ Make sure the temporary savepoint storage is closed properly.01:17
CIA-94jim * r114664 ZODB/src/ZODB/tests/ Added more (possible unnecessary) cleanup.01:17
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jefimenkoi have a simple question about buildout. i know it's not directly related to zope, but you guys are smart, you use buildout, and the buildout channel is dead08:59
jefimenkodoes anyone know how to install a python package via a direct URL08:59
jefimenkowith buildout08:59
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jefimenkothis package is not available on PyPI or any of the other popular python package indexes, but it is on sourceforge:
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koshsorry I don't know much about buildout09:04
koshthe only buildout stuff I have used is an existing recipe09:06
koshand it is pretty late at night in the usa so most people are probably asleep right now09:06
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CIA-94janwijbrand * r114665 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/releaseteam/ (meeting-20100706.rst index.rst): ztk-releaseteam minutes for 07/06 meeting09:30
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CIA-94janwijbrand * r114666 groktoolkit/grok.cfg: use ztk-1.0a210:05
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CIA-94janwijbrand * r114667 groktoolkit/grok.cfg: forgot to update the gtk trunk to grok-1.1.110:47
planetzopebotRestoring an older state of arbitrary Zope objects (Site - Blog of Andreas Jung)
planetzopebotcollective.fancyzoomview 1.0.1 (PyPI recent updates)
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CIA-94hannosch 2.12 * r114668 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg Prepare Zope2
CIA-94hannosch * r114669 /Zope/tags/2.12.9: Tagged Zope2
CIA-94hannosch 2.12 * r114670 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg Bump version11:46
CIA-94hannosch * r114671 zope2docs/releases: New 2.12 release11:46
CIA-94hannosch * r114672 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg Prepare Zope2 2.13.0a2.12:00
CIA-94hannosch * r114673 /Zope/tags/2.13.0a2: Tagged Zope2 2.13.0a2.12:00
CIA-94hannosch * r114674 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg Bump version12:00
CIA-94hannosch * r114675 zope2docs/releases: New 2.1312:00
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CIA-94hannosch * r114676 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt zope/z2release/ Support packages with underscores in their name.12:16
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CIA-94hannosch * r114677 zope.z2release/zope/z2release/ ( Support packages with underscores in their name.12:31
CIA-94hannosch * r114678 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt Prepare zope.z2release 0.6.12:31
CIA-94hannosch * r114679 /zope.z2release/tags/0.6: Tagged zope.z2release 0.6.12:31
CIA-94hannosch * r114680 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt Bump version12:31
CIA-94hannosch * r114681 zope2index/buildout.cfg: Update z2release12:31
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CIA-94hannosch * r114682 zope.z2release/zope/z2release/ Naive implementation of ztk support13:01
CIA-94hannosch * r114683 zope.z2release/zope/z2release/ Factor out fetching the cfg13:01
CIA-94hannosch * r114684 zope.z2release/zope/z2release/ Factor out writing the versions13:01
CIA-94hannosch * r114685 zope.z2release/zope/z2release/ We don't need to special case Zope2, a version pin is included in the cfg itself13:01
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planetzopebotZope2 2.13.0a2 (PyPI recent updates)
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CIA-94hannosch * r114686 zope.z2release/zope/z2release/ Final refactoring13:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114687 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt Prepare zope.z2release 0.7.13:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114688 /zope.z2release/tags/0.7: Tagged zope.z2release 0.7.13:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114689 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt Bump version13:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114690 zope2index/buildout.cfg: Next z2release version13:16
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CIA-94jim * r114691 ZODB/src/ZEO/ (3 files in 2 dirs):13:30
CIA-94Normalize ctime for tests to avoid spurios test failures in13:30
CIA-94non-standart ;) time zones.13:30
CIA-94Cleanup trailing whitespace in verbose stats output.13:30
CIA-94hannosch * r114692 Zope/doc/CHANGES.rst: Correct changelog13:30
CIA-94hannosch 2.13.0a2 * r114693 Zope/doc/CHANGES.rst: Correct changelog on the tag13:31
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planetzopebotzope.z2release 0.6 (PyPI recent updates)
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CIA-94jim * r114694 ZODB/src/CHANGES.txt: Updated release date14:18
CIA-94jim * r114695 /ZODB/tags/3.10.0b2: tag14:19
CIA-94jim 3.10.0b2 * r114696 ZODB/ updated version.14:19
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planetzopebotzope.z2release 0.7 (PyPI recent updates)
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* Theuni1 gets a coffee, although its way too warm already, anyway17:57
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Charlie_XIt cooled down here a bit yesterday.18:00
Theuni1now it's just equally hot as hell, not hotter than hell18:01
MatthewWilkesCharlie_X: I've run away up north, this is much easier to handle :)18:01
Theuni1alright. before this turns into a bitching contest about the weather, let's start18:01
Theuni1TresEquis: you there?18:01
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Charlie_XMatthewWilkes: that's my plan too. Get in to Manchestoh tomorrow afternon and driving straight to Aberdeen.18:01
TresEquisTheuni1: yup18:01
Theuni1TresEquis: wanna talk about the abandoned projects?18:02
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TresEquisthere are a bunch of projects which nobody cares about in SVN18:02
TresEquise.g., enough to update their copyright headers, etc. to conform to policy18:02
TresEquisI'd like us to think about moving them out of the main svn root18:03
TresEquiseither to a subtree of some wort18:03
TresEquisor another repository18:03
TresEquisand take them out of the repository conformance check18:03
TresEquisbefore we doe that18:03
TresEquiswe should try to associate each project with its most frequent committers18:04
TresEquisand bug those folks to see if they still care about it18:04
Theuni1that last thing sounds reasonable.18:04
Theuni1i just scrolled through the last report18:04
Theuni1and it looks like quite a few of them are zope.*18:04
TresEquisif they don't answer, then the question, "is this abandoned?" is valid18:04
Theuni1i think bugging people directly would be nice because it would increase visibility of "something needs to be done on a project you probably care about"18:05
TresEquisa lot of zope.app18:05
TresEquisand zc.*18:05
TresEquisand z3c.*18:05
Theuni1the overall list is so long that people probably don't bother scrolling through it18:05
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Charlie_XI'd like to see the list at least in the summary here.18:06
Theuni1Charlie_X: ?18:06
Theuni1Charlie_X: the list is *long*18:06
TresEquismaybe update the report to show last commit, frequent committers18:07
Charlie_XThe list of "stuff no one seems to care about". At least in the summary of one of these meetings.18:07
Theuni1TresEquis: hmm. were you thinking about personal or automated harrassment?18:07
TresEquisthe 414 projects18:07
TresEquisTheuni1: I'm not sure18:07
TresEquisif we update the nightly report to show frequent committers18:07
Theuni1then people could search for their own name18:08
TresEquismaybe that would help -- people could scan for their own IDs18:08
TresEquisalso, date of last commit18:08
fdrakeHeh.  There's a lot of zc.* in that report as well.18:08
* Theuni1 hands them over to fdrake18:08
Theuni1"A jinx is a condition of bad luck possibly by way of a curse."18:08
fdrakeWill try and review those as time allows, but I'm pretty swamped right now.18:09
TresEquisA common slang term used when two people say the same thing at the same time, said as a game among the young.18:09
* hannosch smiles at young18:10
Theuni1fdrake: everyone is. we tried to do some forced updating to "get it through with" but not enough people joined in to get through18:10
TresEquisobviously some of them are things people *do* care about18:10
Theuni1"Jinx (children's game) - A jinx, or "personal jinx", is a children's game with myriad highly varied rules and penalties that occurs when two people unintentionally or intentionally speak the same word or phrase simultan..."18:10
Theuni1TresEquis: thats why  i think its a matter of visibility18:10
TresEquisTheuni1: I'm not sure that forcing it through was right18:10
Theuni1and blaming18:10
TresEquispeople need to care about their software18:10
Theuni1TresEquis: looks like it :)18:10
hannoschI for one would appreciate a list of packages with names18:10
Theuni1i think it also has the issue of "someone else will do it"18:11
TresEquishannosch: oic, you mean committer names18:11
hannoschthen I could search the list for my name. currently it's just too many18:11
Charlie_XVery true, Theuni1.18:11
TresEquishannosch: even with names, it would be a lot for you ;)18:11
fdrakeTheuni1: Yeah, I know.  Volunteers tend to wear out quickly.  Be patient.18:11
hannoschTresEquis: not a problem. but I don't care about z3c. or zc stuff. the rest I'm willing to work on :)18:12
Theuni1fdrake: no worries, i am, it just also made me stop doing the "10 fixes" every day18:12
Theuni1does anyone have time to do the change to the checker script? i'm really swamped right now.18:12
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* Charlie_X waves his hand.18:12
Theuni1you got it18:12
Charlie_XI can probably do that *after* Europython18:12
Theuni1that's next week?18:13
Charlie_XPlease tell me what to do in an e-mail18:13
Theuni1will do18:13
Charlie_XYes, next week.18:13
Theuni1TresEquis: does that work for you?18:13
Charlie_XI'm in the UK until 28th18:13
Theuni1i think i'll make the check only run weekly, too, then18:13
TresEquiswe can look at putting them in a ghetto later18:13
TresEquisother topics?18:14
Charlie_XHanno's ZTK + Python 2.7 suggestion?18:14
Theuni1i didn't read that thread18:14
hannoschit's just one mail really18:14
Theuni1also, i'm not sure if its a good idea to split up discussions between media18:15
TresEquis+1 for supporting 2.7 ASAP18:15
TresEquisif it weren't for the ZODB pin, we'd be almost there ;)18:15
Theuni1hmm. i wonder how much of zodb 3.9 has that issue18:16
TresEquiswhy can't we say ZODB 3.9.x supports 2.7?18:16
Theuni1if someone ran the tests on the 3.9 branch ... ;)18:16
hannoschJim would have to say that18:16
hannoschhe's been fixing a lot of tests on trunk to get it supported18:16
hannoschthose test fixes would need to be backported I guess18:16
TresEquisugh, doctests18:16
* TresEquis backs away slowly18:17
* Theuni1 stops breathing18:17
hannoschand I'm not convinced supporting four Python versions at the same time is such a good idea18:17
hannoschI'd rather see a ZTK 1.0 and quickly followed by a 1.1 which drops 2.4 and includes 2.718:18
Theuni1hannosch: we're giving up 2.4 after ztk 1.0, right?18:18
Theuni1i'd appreciate something like that18:18
hannoschTheuni1: yes18:18
Charlie_XWe're only keeping 2.4 for fdrake18:18
TresEquiscan we release 1.0 sooner, and do 2.4 on the slower schedule?18:18
Theuni1and then we could upgrade zodb to 3.10 and have python 2.7 without doing busywork now18:18
hannosch1.0 is waiting for all tests to be fixed18:18
hannoschthat's the only blocker18:18
fdrakeAnd I'm working on getting us off 2.4; it *will* happen!18:19
TresEquishannosch: we need Windows developers18:19
Theuni1sounds like a drug issue *g18:19
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TresEquisor else quit saying Windows is a supported platform18:19
Theuni1developers, developers, developers, developers ...18:19
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* hannosch wifi had a bad reaction to Windows :)18:19
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Theuni1hannosch: "(05:19:31 PM) TresEquis: or else quit saying Windows is a supported platform"18:20
hannoschI think we are almost there with Windows18:20
Theuni1TresEquis: there are some people around that do use windows or at least are interested in it18:20
TresEquisthey need to help fix bugs18:20
Theuni1(I actually have a young volunteer on a grok-based project who is working with windows regularly ...)18:20
TresEquisthat only show up on Windows buildbots18:20
TresEquislike the delete-open-files breakages18:21
Theuni1could this be a visibility/outreach issue as well?18:21
TresEquisat the very least, they need to debug to figure out which files are open18:21
Theuni1do those people who know/use windows know about these specific issues in the buildbots? maybe the test output discussions get ignored?18:21
TresEquissince none of the core folks run on that goofy CRTL18:21
TresEquisI try to summarize, but have gotten weary of it18:22
Theuni1TresEquis: yeah, good job, though :)18:22
hannoschI think Adam has done a good job so far. he needs some more help but we are pretty close18:22
TresEquisamen to that18:22
Theuni1i think we need to get the amount of failures down so that the summarization doesn't need you every morning ;)18:22
TresEquishe has the builder part going great18:22
hannoschyep. I need to have another look at what actually fails on Windows now18:23
hannoschthe zope.testing doctests are a pain18:23
Theuni1ok, so our original topic was ZTK 1.0 versus python 2.718:23
Theuni1was the suggestion of supporting python 2.4-2.6 in ztk 1.0 and 2.5-2.7 in ztk 1.1 agreed upon?18:24
hannoschI think so18:24
* TresEquis doesn't really even care about 2.5 at this point18:25
TresEquisalthough supporting it isn't very hard18:25
Theuni1hmm, ok, anything else?18:26
Theuni1I didn't manage to write up the summary from last week. I'll take some time during the bug day tomorrow, to catch up.18:26
Charlie_Xwho else is in Birmingham next week18:26
* Theuni1 not :(18:26
* hannosch neither18:26
Theuni1Charlie_X: can you tell people about the summit and the dzug conference at EP?18:27
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Charlie_Xwill do18:27
Theuni1also, i'd like to remind people who consider joining the summit to please mail us at whether you're coming or not, so we can plan for it18:27
Charlie_XTheuni1:  wiki as well?18:28
Theuni1what wiki? :)18:28
hannoschTheuni1: do you sent confirmations? I registered but got no response18:28
Theuni1hannosch: we didn't send confirmations back as andrea is on holidays18:29
Theuni1hannosch: but everyone who mailed up until now is definitely in ;)18:29
hannoschaha :)18:29
Theuni1ok, time's up,18:30
* Theuni1 crawls back to some cool area18:30
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planetzopebotstxnext.staticdeployment 0.7.2 (PyPI recent updates)
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CIA-94faassen * r114697 hurry.resource/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Add a WSGI middleware that will pull in resources.18:37
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Charlie_XTresEquis: what did you mean with the XUL reference?18:39
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TresEquisCharlie_X: I didn't know what you meant by "domain"18:55
TresEquisI know of at least two uses of the word in the Zope ecosphere18:56
TresEquis"translation domains" vs "domain authentication"18:56
CIA-94faassen * r114698 hurry.resource/ (CHANGES.txt Prepare for 0.9 release.18:56
CIA-94faassen * r114699 hurry.resource/ (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 0.918:56
CIA-94faassen * r114700 /hurry.resource/tags/0.9: Tagging 0.918:56
CIA-94faassen * r114701 hurry.resource/ (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 1.018:56
CIA-94faassen * r114702 hurry.resource/README.txt: Stop distutils from complaining.18:56
CIA-94faassen * r114703 hurry.resource/ (CHANGES.txt More modestly prepare for bugfix release next.18:56
CIA-94faassen 0.9 * r114704 hurry.resource/src/hurry/resource/README.txt: Fixup ReST bug.18:56
CIA-94faassen * r114705 hurry.resource/src/hurry/resource/README.txt: Fixup ReST bug.18:56
Charlie_Xdomain authentication - the user preferences form.18:59
Charlie_XI can't think of a CMF use case where members get to set their authenication domains.18:59
Charlie_XWhich is probably why we have the helpful line about "don't worry if you don't know what domains are."19:00
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Charlie_XBut I googled your question and found out that people were spoofing authentication domains with XUL (the Mozilla configuration stuff)19:04
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CIA-94hannosch * r114706 /Products.MailHost: Next Zope 2 spin-off19:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114707 /Products.MailHost/ (tags trunk branches): Structure19:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114708 Products.MailHost/: Boilerplate19:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114709 Products.MailHost/ (10 files in 3 dirs): svn add could help19:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114710 Products.MailHost/src/Products/MailHost: Get the code19:16
CIA-94hannosch * r114711 Products.MailHost/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Cleanup19:16
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CIA-94hannosch * r114712 Products.MailHost/src/Products/MailHost/ (5 files in 2 dirs): PEP819:33
CIA-94hannosch * r114713 Products.MailHost/ (CHANGES.txt Prepare Products.MailHost
CIA-94hannosch * r114714 /Products.MailHost/tags/2.13.0: Tagged Products.MailHost
CIA-94hannosch * r114715 Products.MailHost/ (CHANGES.txt Bump version19:33
TresEquisCharlie_X: domains should be set only by the admin19:40
TresEquisas they bypass other authentication19:40
TresEquisthey aren't "member data" at all19:40
TresEquisZMI only, in other words, probably only in PAS19:41
TresEquisthe classic user folder is crap19:41
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CIA-94hannosch * r114716 Zope/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Factored out MailHost19:47
CIA-94faassen * r114717 hurry.jquery/src/hurry/jquery/ Fix typo.19:47
CIA-94faassen * r114718 hurry.jquery/README.txt: Fix documentation bug.19:47
CIA-94hannosch * r114719 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg): Update to ZODB3 = 3.10.0b219:47
Charlie_XThat's what I think. I'll rip them out of password_form19:48
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CIA-94hannosch * r114720 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/releaseteam/meeting-20100706.rst: Typos :)20:07
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kylerI'm looking for a way to pass Zope2/Startup/ a setting such as INSTANCE_HOME.20:09
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Theuni1why to
Theuni1you mean for execution with bin/zopectl run?20:17
Theuni1i think it can pass through command line arguments (sys.argv)20:18
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bigkevmcdor, INSTANCE_HOME=x bin/zopectl run ?20:32
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kylerTheuni1: Yes, I'd like to make some settings from environment variables or the command line instead of in the configuration file.  I don't see a way to access OS environment variables in the config file.20:38
Theuni1please, don't use environment variables20:38
Theuni1they're a pain to maintain in the long run20:39
Theuni1use command line arguments, put it in config files, whatever20:39
Theuni1does the parameter change between different runs of your application or is it always the same?20:39
Theuni1if it is the latter then put it into zope.conf20:39
kylerTheuni1: It'll change.  Environment variables would be easy to use but how do I stick it in the command line?20:41
Theuni1uhm, doesn't sys.argv contain the information after starting?20:42
Theuni1bin/zopectl run fdsa fasdfdsaf -> look into sys.argv20:42
kylerTheuni1:  Yes, but how do I "look into sys.argv" from zope.conf?20:42
Theuni1why do you want to look into that from zope.conf?20:43
Theuni1that question doesn't make sense to me20:43
Theuni1lets step back a bit20:43
Theuni1what are you trying to achieve?20:43
kylerI want to set the location of the logs and the port numbers.20:43
Theuni1are you using buildout?20:44
Theuni1there you go ;)20:44
Theuni1What you're looking for is a build system that performs those kinds of actions for you and automates the installation of instances20:44
Theuni1let me check whether the docs have something about how to get started with it20:44
kylerI'm using Zope 2.9.20:44
kylerIt would be sooooo simple if I could access OS environment variables in zope.conf20:45
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mcdonc+1, this should be a feature20:45
Theuni1mcdonc: yikes :(20:45
kylermcdonc:  It would also address this bug.
_mup_Bug #143046: Having to set variable in start script AND .conf is idiotic :-( <bug> <zope> <Zope 2:Confirmed> <>20:46
mcdoncfor port numbers and path locations, absolutely20:46
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mcdoncat least have a $HERE20:47
mcdoncfor path locations20:47
mcdonccwd doesnt cut it20:47
mcdonc(note that this is my fault, i argued against it many years ago)20:48
kylerTheuni1: Does that build new instances?20:48
kylerTheuni1:  I don't want that.20:48
Theuni1kyler: i guess you don't want that, but there's a conceptual gap in there, which will solve your problem on a different level.20:49
CIA-94trollfot * r114721 groktoolkit/grok-ecosystem.cfg: Updated `dolmen.content` version20:49
* Theuni1 handwaves to avoid too much typing and because he's too stupid for succinct explanations today20:49
Theuni1mcdonc: i'm with you on $HERE20:49
kylermcdonc:  It sounds like you've researched this more than I have.  You've determined that it's not possible to pass variables for use in zope.conf?20:49
Theuni1.oO(that means he probably wrote most of that code)20:49
mcdonci helped write the code that made it not possible eight or so years ago ;-)20:50
mcdonczconfig may have changed since then20:50
mcdonci doubt it20:50
Theuni1"Here's a dime, go, get yourself a good appserver"20:50
kylermcdonc: Oh.  Darn.  Well...then I'll ask you for insight on it.  Could I use a pipe for the config file?20:50
mcdoncdont know if you can use a pipe or not20:51
kylermcdonc: (I'm about to try it but I thought you'd know of any gotchas that might not be obvious.)20:51
mcdoncit probably wants a filename20:51
kylermcdonc: I was thinking /dev/stdin (or similar).20:51
mcdoncits been 8 years20:51
kylermcdonc: I thought I recognized your alias.  That's around the time I was getting heavy into Zope.20:52
mcdoncah right, well, welcome back! ;-)20:52
Theuni1kyler: i really do suggest you ponder buildout at least for a bit. however, i'll shut up about it for now. ;)20:54
kylerTheuni1: Thanks for the insight.  I'm looking for minimal changes right now but I'll try to look at it again.20:54
mcdoncnot to derail into the theoretical but i kinda find the idea of relying on buildout to manage config files a little horrific20:55
mcdoncat least without also being able to change them by hand20:56
mcdonc(which is usually an incompatible goal)20:56
Theuni1mcdonc: change by hand for what reason?20:57
mcdoncany reason i guess20:58
Theuni1hmm. i think that's mostly an issue of having reasonable recipes that allow you to insert stuff arbitrarily20:58
mcdoncit reminds me of m420:58
mcdoncto generate sendmail config files20:58
Theuni1yeah, someone was fresh out of drugs when he did *that*20:59
mcdonci kinda like just checking the config files into svn20:59
mcdoncbut whatever works for folks really20:59
mcdonci guess i get a little weirded out when people start asking me questions about like collective.recipe.supervisor21:00
mcdoncas if somehow that thing made sense21:00
mcdoncand i should know about it21:00
teixmcdonc: of course you *must* know! :)21:01
mcdoncoops is that yours? ;-)21:01
mcdoncsorry ;-)21:01
teixmcdonc: nope but could be... in future :)21:01
mcdoncah ok21:02
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mcdonckyler: wait a sec.. i think there's a -X command line parameter that you can use to override config file values?21:04
mcdonchmm, i cant unwind it quickly21:06
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mcdoncbut i think there is a way to pass values that override the config file values on the command line and i *think* that has something to do with the -X option to runzope, iirc21:07
fdrake-X is hacky, but yes, that would work.21:07
fdrakeWhat's the setting you want to override?21:07
mcdonche wants to override the zserver port value, likely21:07
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kylerSweet!  I want to set at least INSTANCE.  Port numbers too.21:08
kylerinstancehome, that is.21:08
mcdoncfred to the rescue!21:09
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kylerYay!  -X seems to do exactly what I want...if I can use it multiple times.  Lessee...21:09
kylerHmmm...I can use it multiple times but it appears that it must match an existing setting.  IOW, I can't set "httpport" and then use "$httpport" inside <http-server>.21:10
kylerfdrake: Thanks for the lead.  This at least gets me closer to a solution.21:11
fdrakeThere might be a -D as well, for $variables, but that's pretty iffy.  (ZConfig variables don't like re-definition, so not sure how that'd play out.)21:13
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mcdoncfdrake: can you do like -DHERE=`pwd` if its not a redefine?21:14
kylerOh!  Piping the config file works!  That'll do what I need but I'll look into -D.21:15
TresEquisfdrake: you could merge my dead_reckoning branch to add $here ;)21:16
fdrakeI'd have to go read the code.21:17
kyler"Error: option -D not recognized"21:17
fdrakeTresEquis: You presume I have time to read the patch.  :-)21:17
TresEquisyou have time to hang out here ;)21:17
fdrake(I've got them open in a tab somewhere.....)21:17
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fdrakeI'm just procrastinating now.21:17
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TresEquis"procrasinate faster!"21:18
kylerI'm going to stick with generating a config file and piping it into for now.  Thanks for the advice, all.21:18
* fdrake approves of generated config.21:18
mcdonci remember seeing somewhere a library that generated timestamps like "28 days ago"21:20
mcdoncanybody remember this21:20
kylermcdonc:  Oh...I'm pretty sure I've used it but I also recall making my own...hmmmm...21:21
kylerfdrake: Since you like to make patches and you like my generated config file idea, maybe you'd like to solve this?
_mup_Bug #143046: Having to set variable in start script AND .conf is idiotic :-( <bug> <zope> <Zope 2:Confirmed> <>21:22
fdrakeI like to make patches?21:22
kylerfdrake: Oops!  You're not the one who generated that patch.  Sorry.21:23
fdrakeI've also not used Zope 2 in years and years.21:23
mcdoncexcept when no one is looking21:25 sorry it was a jquery thing21:25
TresEquisfdrake: I could do the merge, if you just review21:30
fdrakeTresEquis: I suspected as much.  :-)21:31
TresEquisnot a very big patch21:31
* fdrake figures out how to see the patch on lauchpad....21:33
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TresEquis"expand all"21:33
fdrakeHmm.  $here can be wrong for included files.21:33
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TresEquisafter clicking the changeset21:33
TresEquisI think it has to always be relative to the "main" file21:33
TresEquisunless you think it gets scoped21:34
fdrakeAs a user, I'd be surprised that $here doesn't refer to the directory I'm in.21:34
fdrakeBut that said, it wouldn't be much harder to do that.21:35
TresEquisthe convention with Paste config files is that $here is the directory containing the config file21:35
fdrakeThe backward-compatibility issue is that someone's existing %define here ... will explode.21:35
fdrakeTresEquis: Yeah; by "directory I'm in", I mean the directory the config file being parsed is in.21:36
fdrakeIf the main config is in /a/file.conf, and includes /a/b/another.conf, I'd expect references in /a/file.conf to refer to /a, and in /a/b/another.conf to refer to /a/b.21:37
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TresEquisfdrake: no BBB problem in that patch, because here gets defined only if there are no other defines21:39
TresEquisfor real-world cases, included files pretty much won't matter, I think21:40
TresEquismostly $here exists to allow most-local configuration21:40
fdrakeYou expect it to mostly be used with %include, or for other things?21:42
fdrake%include should already be doing to right relative thing.21:42
TresEquisfind the var and log directories, mostly21:42
TresEquismaybe paths to scripts21:42
fdrakeI'm going to disappoint you and require time to ponder.21:43
fdrakeBug me in a week, though, if you don't get a response.21:43
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jefimenkois anyone here familiar with buildout?21:51
* Charlie_X reckons most people here use buildout21:51
jefimenkoi know the zope community likes it... smart guys ;)21:52
jefimenkomost people don't adopt it21:52
jefimenkoi can't figure out for the life of me how to install a package from a direct URL21:53
jefimenkonot a package index like PyPI or anything21:53
jefimenkolike this
Charlie_Xooh, sourceforge is tricky because of the urls.22:00
Charlie_X-i does allow you to point to another index. Probably best checking how that works. I don't think indexes are that magical.22:00
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planetzopebotZODB 2.10b2 released (ZODB Documentation)
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Charlie_X--find-links (-f)              additional URL(s) to search for packages22:05
Charlie_XThat's the command for easy_install that buildout calls.22:05
jefimenkoCharlie_X: i tried pointing find-links directly to it22:08
jefimenkoit doesn't seem to work22:08
jefimenkoone second22:09
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Charlie_XShould be fine as long as it is pointing to an egg,22:14
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jefimenkoCharlie_X: so that download now link should work?22:24
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jefimenkoi added that url to find-links in buildout.cfg:
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jefimenkoand the includes the s3cmd dependency:
jefimenkoit can't find s3cmd when running buildout:
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Charlie_XNotice how the mysql driver (also on Sourceforge) includes the mirror22:42
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jefimenkoCharlie_X: thanks22:53
jefimenkojust lost about 6 hours of my life on this since yesterday :)22:53
jefimenkobut i got it with the direct link22:54
Charlie_XThat makes you better than me.22:56
Charlie_XBut glad you got it sorted.22:56
kylerThe Extensions directory can't be set in zope.conf (in Zope 2.9)?22:56
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Charlie_XMost of this stuff is easier than it seems. Once you get it sussed.22:56
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Charlie_Xkyler: I think the gurus are hiding.22:57
Charlie_XExtensions looks both in the Extensions directory and at a Product level so I don't think it's configurable.22:58
kylerCharlie_X: Thank you.  It still seems like the Extensions directory could be set, just like the Products directory is (and they could both be searched).23:01
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Charlie_XNot really it says that Products and Extensions are hard-wired to instancehome23:04
Charlie_XI'm trying to think if anything other than PythonScripts make user of Extensions.23:04
Charlie_XApp.Extensions is where it's handled23:07
Charlie_X if prefix == "Extensions" and getattr(cfg, 'extensions', None) is not None:23:08
Charlie_XSo you can set it.23:08
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TresEquiskyler: making Extensions configurable is a recent feature23:30
TresEquisnot around when 2.9.0 whipped23:30
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koshzope has had some interesting changes recently23:34
koshwith wsgi coming in 2.13 what are the advantages of using zope with wsgi vs running it like we do now and just having apache proxy it and do all the virtual host etc23:34
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CIA-94tseaver * r114722 ZConfig/ (4 files in 4 dirs):23:47
CIA-94Allow identical redefinition of ``%define`` names.23:47
CIA-94Merges lp:~tseaver/zconfig/allow_identical_redefine .23:47
kylerTresEquis: Thanks for the update.23:47
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