IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-08-17

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planetzopebotZope 2 Instance 1.0 Released! (gmane.comp.web.zope.announce)
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CIA-94baijum * r115721 /bluebream/website/versions.cfg: Use Sphinx = 1.0.206:16
CIA-94baijum * r115722 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial4.rst: bit cleanup06:16
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CIA-94baijum * r115723 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial4.rst: bit cleanup07:08
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danielkiedoes only work with python2.3?10:11
danielkiesry: hello channel :D10:11
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CIA-94baijum * r115724 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial4.rst: better description10:21
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CIA-94baijum * r115725 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial2.rst: mention part 310:32
CIA-94baijum * r115726 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial3.rst: include configure directive10:33
CIA-94baijum * r115727 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial3.rst: skin package should be included from main package10:33
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CIA-94reinout * r115728 z3c.dependencychecker/buildout.cfg: version re-pinning12:03
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CIA-94reinout * r115729 z3c.dependencychecker/src/z3c/dependencychecker/
CIA-94First go at compensating for django-style 'django-something' package names and12:33
CIA-94'django_something' package directories.12:33
CIA-94reinout * r115730 z3c.dependencychecker/CHANGES.txt: updated changelog12:33
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astoondoes anyone know. where host source code lovely.memcached or where to send patches?13:41
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d2mastoon:, source is at svn.zope.org13:46
astoond2m: unfortunately, there isn't lovely.memcached on svn.zope.org13:47
d2mastoon: oh, i see13:47
astoonbecause of Lovely copyright13:47
d2myou best ask the people at lovelysystems13:47
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CIA-94baijum * r115731 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/ (tutorial1.rst tutorial2.rst):15:37
CIA-94use templates to avoid macro issues15:37
CIA-94while introducing skin created from scratch15:37
CIA-94baijum * r115732 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial3.rst: mention about useful views15:37
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CIA-94baijum * r115733 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial1.rst: rst fix16:34
CIA-94baijum * r115734 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial2.rst: rst fixes & typo16:34
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hannoschj-w, ccomb: ping?17:00
j-whi hannosch ccomb17:00
j-wme there17:01
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hannoschj-w:  yeah, welcome back from vacation, hope you had a great time :)17:01
ccombsure :)17:01
j-wyes I did, thanks17:01
j-whardly touched my laptop17:01
j-wso lots of catching up17:02
hannoschshall we go over the last meeting notes?17:02
hannoschI think that + deprecation stuff is high on the list17:03
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j-wi'll try to make less typos in today's minutes ;)17:03
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j-wyes deprecation is high on the list17:03
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j-wccomb: one of the tasks was testing BB against the ztk17:04
j-wdid you have time to do that?17:04
hannoschI think that's done and successfully tested17:04
ccombI've successfully integrated the ztk into BB17:04
ccombIt's in 1.0b317:04
hannoschccomb: is there any news on a BB 1.0 release date?17:05
j-wok, missed that, nice17:05
ccombbut forgot the versions=versions :P17:05
ccombno date yet, we're waiting for the ztk17:05
hannoschok. so ZTK 1.0 is blocking BB 1.0 now17:05
ccombprobably a 1.0b4 soon17:05
ccombblocking not really, it's just a decision17:06
j-wthe checkversions script was done too, right?17:06
ccombwe could release with a preversion of the ztk17:06
ccombcheckversions, I suppose17:06
ccombI've added 2 options17:06
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ccombI'm using it in
hannoschyes, I think that's done. we have the prefer-final thing now17:06
j-wok, another task done17:07
ccombif we want to upgrade the ZTK, this buildbot directly gives the latest working list17:07
ccomband generates a blacklist17:07
hannoschccomb: can you add a remark about this to the release-procedures.rst file?17:07
* hannosch will forget that url quickly17:08
j-wanother task was adding the windows slaves to the buildslaves overview17:08
j-walso done?17:08
hannoschthat's done17:08
hannoschAdam did that himself17:08
j-wok, the deprecation task is left then :-)17:09
hannoschI think we were basically in agreement for all the packages17:10
j-wwe had some email exchange about this topic17:10
hannoschthere were some zope.* packages which we need to review one by one17:10
j-wexcept for a view* packages right17:10
j-wnot view, few17:10 and
hannoschok. the baseline is still right17:11
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hannoschj-w: do you have a good overview, for me it's all lost in long mail threads :)17:12
j-wlet's start by deprecating unused packages17:12
j-wI think that's what we agreed on already I guess17:12
j-w(I got a bit lost too)17:13
hannoschok. so anything in that list of mine without any "x" gets deprecated17:13
hannoschPlone doesn't count there (
j-wyes, let's do that17:13
ccombhas this list been updated with recent mail discussion?17:14
hannoschccomb: no17:14
* j-w looks at mail thread about this17:14
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j-wthere was not much to be updated according to out mail conversation17:15
CIA-94baijum * r115735 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial1.rst: redirect to main page after adding17:15
CIA-94baijum * r115736 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial3.rst: change section order17:15
CIA-94ctheune * r115737 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/ (zope-dev-20100817.rst index.rst): agenda for today17:15
CIA-94ctheune * r115738 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100817.rst: expand agenda a bit17:15
hannoschI'd be fine with just deprecating all those packages + zope.documenttemplate - all others could stay from my point of view17:15
j-wso zope.catalog (and its deps) can stay even if only grok officially uses them?17:16
hannoschyep. they are used by many more people17:16
j-w(accroding to the package usage list that is)17:17
j-wI like this better than having to maintain that as part of the grok toolkit17:17
hannoschI care a lot more about removing all packages at some point17:17
j-wI'm not sure how to move and forward in this regard17:18
j-wjust rename them to zope.wsgi and zope.appsetup?17:18
hannoschright. that needs some good chunk of work17:18
j-wthat probably something for a wider discussion17:18
hannoschI think zope.wsgi makes sense. I'm not sure what appsetup really contains. specific app config sounds like something for the grok package17:19
j-wow, wait, there's another package that I commented on in the mails: zope.server17:19
hannoschhelpers for app config would make sense in zope.appsetup17:19
j-wzope.server is not used by the consuming frmaeworks17:19
hannoschah right. zope.server is kinda weird17:19
hannoschit used to be the only option until wsgi came around17:20
hannoschI think it's not used by many people anymore. probably worth discouraging at some point17:20
ccombtell me if I'm wrong but it seems the only option to serve via ftp17:20
hannoschccomb: you are right17:20
hannoschdirect ftp access to Zope is a bit of a stone-age feature. today it's all about REST17:21
hannoschI think we could let it stay in for ZTK 1.0 and look again in 1.117:21
hannoschsee how many commits it got, and such17:22
j-wok, noted17:22
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hannoschI'd volunteer to make the changes to the config :)17:24
j-wok, so we introduce a deprecated and a deprecated-versions.cfg?17:24
j-wak, ok, is that what you wanted to do?17:24
j-wcan we then update the package usage list afterwards?17:24
hannoschwe have the deprecating = lines17:25
hannoschboth in ztk.cfg and zopeapp.cfg17:25
j-wah, sure, yes17:25
j-wforgot about that17:25
hannoschI'd just move all those packages from the included = to that line17:25
hannoschthe versions.cfgs won't change at all17:25
hannoschonce we start on 1.1, we remove all of them17:26
hannoschI can do the deprecating move, we update everything to latest bug fix releases and make a new alpha17:27
j-wanything missing besides the depraction for a beta release?17:27
hannoschthat could happen this week17:27
hannoschthen we have test failures on Windows17:27
hannoschwe need to decide if that's a blocker for a beta17:27
j-whannosch: if you want to, we could do it "together" so that more people could make releases17:27
hannoschj-w: sure. you have a account?17:27
hannoschok, mail Jens Vagelpohl with your ssh key17:28
j-wis that Jens I should ask?17:28
j-wshall we do that monday, the new alpha release?17:30
j-wI see you're busy the rest of this week17:30
hannoschwe can do that17:30
j-wfor example at 16:00 (CEST)?17:30
hannoschI'm moving out of my apartment next Friday, moving into a new one in Germany on August 29 ... :)17:30
hannoschso start of next week still works17:31
hannoschyep. no events on Monday17:31
hannosch16:00 Monday it is17:31
j-w(and you'll live out on the streets between friday and the 29th? :)  )17:31
hannoschon airplanes and in hotels17:32
j-wabout windows test failures17:33
j-wI would hope to get that fixed before the beta17:33
j-wbut I do not yet know what the failures are...17:33
j-wI'll look them up in the test reports17:33
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hannoschI think it's typical files not being closed stuff17:34
hannoschif you don't close files explicitly on Windows and rely on garbage collection to do that for you, then you always get into trouble17:34
j-wso, that sounds fixable, right?17:35
hannoschyep. it's just tedious most of the time17:35
hannoschand hard to find without a Windows box17:35
j-wok, i'll review the ztk test failures on windows and see if I can do something about it17:37
hannoschcool. maybe a "shame mail" to zope-dev could also help17:37
hannoschif we have a list of concrete failures people might be more interested to help17:37
hannoschand if we can say: this is the last blocker for a ZTK release, maybe someone else is willing to help17:38
hannoschI wouldn't bet on it, but it's worth a try17:38
j-wwe'l try that route17:38
j-wanything left?17:38
hannoschI think tasks are done, next meeting time is left17:39
hannoschccomb: any other comments?17:39
ccombnothing more17:39
j-wnext week, same time?17:39
ccomb(sorry I was having 2 meeting at once)17:39
ccombnext week....17:40
ccombseems ok for me17:40
hannoschnext week same time would work for me17:40
ccombok alarm set17:40
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j-wok, that's set!17:41
j-wthanks guys!17:41
hannoschcool, thanks17:41
* hannosch runs home before the zope-dev meeting17:42
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* Theuni1 cleans up the crumbs left from hannosch17:59
Theuni1Wow, we do have an updated for once18:00
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Theuni1anybody else around? :)18:01
benjiTheuni1: I'm here but not paying much attention.18:02
Theuni1benji: :)18:02
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planetzopebotTools for a successful Plone project (Martin Aspeli)
Theuni1i might have send the reminder way too late today :)18:04
j-wTheuni1: I see one of the weekly meeting "ongoing issues" is the ztk release18:04
j-wTheuni1: I could try to fill you in on that18:04
Theuni1j-w: yeah, in the sense that i think a status update for the rest of us would be nice :)18:05
j-wright, sent to the ml irght18:05
Theuni1Currently that would be the best idea i guess. Make it *really* short to get it read ;)18:06
j-wme or hanno can do that - we're aiming for a next alpha release monday next week18:06
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j-wTheuni1: how's the copyright-rewrite going?18:07
Theuni1stuck right now18:07
Theuni1too little time from my part to do anything, really18:07
j-wquite some packages were done I see, but still lots to cover18:08
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Theuni1the plan is to include the names of people who worked on packages before on the list18:08
Theuni1that way people can search their own name for packages they care for18:09
Theuni1after that we're aiming to retire packages nobody is interested int18:09
j-wi see18:09
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j-wi'll try to do some more copyright-rewrites again in the coming period18:10
Theuni1cool :)18:10
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CIA-94baijum * r115739 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial4.rst: bit cleanup19:30
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CIA-94baijum * r115740 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial4.rst: bit cleanup20:24
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sawdogCurious, Zope 2.12 docs on indicate 2.12 is fully eggified and can be found at — but all that's there is 2.13 alpha…..this intentional?20:36
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CIA-94baijum * r115741 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/tutorial4.rst: rst fixes20:58
CIA-94baijum * r115742 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/manual/i18nl10n.rst: taken from Justin's copy20:58
CIA-94hannosch * r115743 zopetoolkit/ (zopeapp.cfg ztk-versions.cfg zopeapp-versions.cfg ztk.cfg): Deprecate packages according to release team decision, based on data from
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CIA-94baijum * r115744 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/manual/i18nl10n.rst: replace MessageIdFactory with MessageFactory21:19
CIA-94baijum * r115745 /bluebream/website/docs/v1.0/manual/browserresource.rst: display line numbers21:19
CIA-94hannosch * r115746 zopetoolkit/ (ztk-versions.cfg zopeapp-versions.cfg): Update versions as suggested by the upgrade version buildbot21:19
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The_SlipGood day guys, i'm having a little problem with my version of zope 2.10.921:32
The_SlipIm trying to install Km-Key and it needs a zope server21:32
The_SlipSo the problem is:21:33
The_Slipwhen i try to import a kmkey.zexp file with zope21:33
The_Slipim receiving this error:21:34
The_SlipError Type: ImportError21:34
The_SlipError Value: cannot import name PortalGenerator21:34
The_SlipY did my own search on google with no success21:34
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The_Sliptrying to find a python module idunno21:35
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RichardBarrellThe_Slip: is this an open-source thing? I can't read Spanish. :)21:41
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RichardBarrellThe_Slip: do you have Plone installed? It appears that PortalGenerator is part of Plone.21:42
The_SlipRichardBarrell, Wat? yes, it is open-spurce21:42
The_SlipRichardBarrell, uh Plone? i think i don't need plone21:43
The_SlipRichardBarrell, Well i really dont know, the requeriments of Km-key didnt make mention of Plone21:44
* MatthewWilkes has never heard of anything called PortalGenerator in Plone21:44
RichardBarrellMatthewWilkes: me either, but if you google "PoralGenerator Plone 2.0" you'll find mentions of it in various places.21:45
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RichardBarrellMatthewWilkes: sounds like it might be one of those things that the Plone community in general do their best to forget. ;)21:46
davisagliMatthewWilkes: I think it's how a new site used to get created before GenericSetup21:46
RichardBarrellGood to see you around again, Matt.21:46
The_Slipi found some Products.CMFDefault.Portal.PortalGenerator21:46
davisagliThe_Slip: in general, you can only import a ZEXP if you have exactly the same versions of exactly the same packages installed as on the Zope instance where the export was made21:46
The_Slipuh i get it21:47
RichardBarrelldavisagli: I've gotten surprisingly lucky from time to time. ;)21:47
The_SlipWhen i was trying to import the file21:47
The_SlipFirst was error with GenericSetup21:48
The_SlipThen was CMFDefault21:48
The_SlipAnd now this21:48
The_SlipI solved the others, installing the Product. package from python's repo21:48
The_Slipbut i cant find anything about PortalGenerator in python's repo21:49
davisagliRichardBarrell: sure, if the underlying classes haven't changed too much then it might work. but you can't count on it.21:52
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RichardBarrellThe_Slip: it appears that PortalGenerator may be a really old bit of Plone. Try that.21:55
The_SlipRichardBarrell, Kthx, i'll try it21:56
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RichardBarrelldavisagli: I'm reminded of the time that I found an old (OLD) Zope site that I needed to migrate, which had objects that were subclasses of BTreeFolder in it. That's BTreeFolder, not BTreeFolder2. :)21:57
MatthewWilkesRichardBarrell: How's life on the Plone side of Team Rubber?21:57
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RichardBarrellMatthewWilkes: it's a good thing we don't have a swear-box in here, because I'd go bankrupt every time I touched it. I'm sure the NSPCC would appreciate the donations, though. ;)21:58
RichardBarrellMatthewWilkes: I'm actually still doing a surprising amount of TTW.22:00
MatthewWilkesThat is nothing to boast about.22:01
davisagliRichardBarrell: remind me never to do maintenance on one of those sites then :)22:01
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RichardBarrellIt's not quite as painful as it sounds. I have an egg kicking around that will either recursively explore a Zope folder looking for PythonScripts and PageTempaltes, and write them to disk, or recursively explore a bit of filesystem looking for .py and .pt files and put them into the ZODB. I've been using it as a crutch to keep things in subversion.22:03
* MatthewWilkes makes a note to hit RichardBarrell in Bristol22:04
davisagliRichardBarrell: that was easier than learning to write things as browser views?22:04
RichardBarrellDid I accidentally make the world a worse place again?22:04
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RichardBarrelldavisagli: I use Five pretty heavily for most other sites, but we have one product which, while relatively simple, gets such hairpin per-client customisations that it's easier to effectively fork it for every single client by manage_copyObject'ing Folders.22:07
MatthewWilkesdavisagli: I met RichardBarrell while working as a teaching assistant on a C programming course.  He was classifying characters as uppercase, lowercase or numeric using an array of function pointers22:09
MatthewWilkesHe does not go the easy way. Ever.22:09
RichardBarrellMatthewWilkes: hey, I had *just* read that chapter and it sounded funny. :)22:12
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