IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-09-21

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CIA-7jim 3.8 * r116690 ZODB/ (4 files in 3 dirs):00:37
CIA-7Bug fixed:00:37
CIA-7When an integer too large to fit in a 32-bit integer was provided as00:37
CIA-7a 32-bit-integer BTree key or value on 64-bit machines, an00:37
CIA-7OverflowError was raised. Now a TypeError is raised.00:37
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CIA-7jim 3.9 * r116691 ZODB/src/ (ZODB/ CHANGES.txt ZODB/tests/
CIA-7Bugs Fixed01:01
CIA-7- Objects added in transactions that were later aborted could have01:01
CIA-7_p_changed still set (
CIA-7jim 3.9 * r116692 ZODB/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs):01:01
CIA-7Bug fixed01:01
CIA-7The verbose mode of the fstest was broken.01:01
_mup_Bug #615758: transaction.abort: Incomplete cleanup for new objects <3.9.5> <ZODB:Fix Committed> <>01:01
_mup_Bug #475996: [patch] verbose mode broken in <ZODB:Fix Committed> <>01:01
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CIA-7ctheune * r116693 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/ (zope-dev-20100921.rst index.rst): update for todays meeting09:03
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CIA-7icemac * r116694 zopetoolkit/ztk.cfg: added zope.testrunner to make buildbot happy which tests checkouts09:49
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CIA-7icemac * r116695 z3c.recipe.perlpackage/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Conform to repository policy.10:03
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CIA-7tlotze * r116696 gocept.selenium/src/gocept/selenium/static/ (tests/ straightened out tests for the StaticFilesLayer10:59
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CIA-7janwijbrand * r116697 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/releaseteam/ (meeting-20100824.rst index.rst meeting-20100907.rst): add minutes of previous two meetings11:17
CIA-7tlotze * r116698 gocept.selenium/CHANGES.txt: updated changelog11:17
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CIA-7jim 3.8 * r116699 ZODB/NEWS.txt: Set release date.12:19
CIA-7jim 3.9 * r116700 ZODB/src/CHANGES.txt: Set release date.12:19
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CIA-7jim 3.9 * r116701 ZODB/src/ZEO/tests/ de-unixify13:03
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CIA-7adamg * r116702 zope.testbrowser/ (6 files in 3 dirs):14:34
CIA-7Fixed a bug that caused the ``Browser`` to keep it's previous ``contents``14:34
CIA-7Also adjusted exception messages at places to match pre version 3.4.1 messages.14:34
CIA-7adamg * r116703 zope.testbrowser/ (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 3.10.114:56
CIA-7adamg * r116704 /zope.testbrowser/tags/3.10.1: Tagging 3.10.114:56
CIA-7adamg * r116705 zope.testbrowser/ (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 3.10.214:56
CIA-7adamg * r116706 zopetoolkit/zopeapp-versions.cfg: bugs fixed in zope.testbrowser14:56
bobo_bIf I use a FSImage in a template, it gives me a full html img-tag. Does anybody know where that comes from? The code in doesn't seem to create it...14:57
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planetzopebotCreatecoverage and createzopecoverage (Reinout van Rees' weblog)
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CIA-7jim * r116707 /ZODB/tags/3.8.6: tag16:33
CIA-7jim 3.8.6 * r116708 ZODB/ Updated version.16:33
CIA-7icemac * r116709 /zopetoolkit/branches/zope.testing-3.10: branch for integrating zope.testing 3.1016:33
CIA-7icemac zope.testing-3.10 * r116710 zopetoolkit/ztk-versions.cfg: integrating zope.testing 3.10 (Thanks Gediminas Paulauskas for the patch.)16:33
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CIA-7icemac * r116711 /zope.component/branches/3.9: created branch fro ZTK 1.016:50
CIA-7icemac 3.9 * r116712 zope.component/ (CHANGES.txt fixed versions for branch16:50
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j-whi ccomb117:00
j-wno hanno yet17:00
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j-wthere he is!17:01
hannoschj-w, ccomb: heya17:01
j-whi hannosch17:01
* hannosch still needs to read the meeting notes, sorry17:01
j-wI saw some discussion on zope-dev about ztk-1.1 work, right17:02
j-wzope.testing support etc.17:02
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hannoschwe have one other issue for ZTK 1.017:02
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hannoschwhen looking at package usage of the frameworks I ignored testing dependencies17:03
hannoschicemac and me have started fixing lots of stuff17:03
hannoschwe are almost there now17:03
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hannoschdo we have an agenda from last time?17:04
CIA-7icemac 1.0 * r116713 zopetoolkit/ztk.cfg: swithing to branch as trunk requires zope.testing 3.10 which is not in ZTK 1.017:04
j-wonly a couple of small points17:04
j-wthe landingpage on
hannoschnot done yet, will do for next week17:05
j-wand  - at that time - windows test failure17:05
j-wbut we had a green light just before the summit17:05
j-wand adding a remark about the discover-ztk buildbot in the release-prcedures.rst file17:05
ccombI'm not satisfied with the discover-ztk buildbot17:06
j-wand ideas like aggregated changelog of the packages in the ztk release17:06
ccombI'm in the process of creating a giant buildbot17:06
ccombwhich will test all the packages against all the versions17:06
hannoschccomb: ok. so you are still working on this. any input from us required / wanted?17:06
j-whannosch: can you elaborate a bit on the test dependencies issue and how your fixing it?17:06
ccombnot really yet, I'll ask if I block17:07
j-wand whether you need help17:07
j-wccomb: please do17:07
hannoschok. so the test dependency stuff: lots of packages still used "deprecated" packages in their tests17:07
hannoschI removed the deprecated packages from trunk and got errors17:08
hannoschwe are now fixing all packages to remove those test dependencies17:08
j-wwhat I do not understand is, martijn faassen and sylvain viollon did quite some work on this17:08
hannoschI think it's only left that depends on
j-wduring the two zapp sprints we had a while ago, to get tid of for grok17:09
hannoschwe had a list of about 10 packages which had "bad" dependencies17:09
hannoschbut as I said, there's one left17:09
j-wthat's great17:09
hannoschthe other issue is and zodbcode (which is a separate issue)17:09
ccombWe also have to find a policy for all the package trunks/branches of the ztk 1.0 branch17:10
hannoschso for the test dependency stuff, I'd like to fix this and then cut a new release candidate17:10
hannoschfor it would really help if bluebream didn't require that anymore17:10
hannoschit's just part of the autogenerated file17:11
ccombwhere does the requirement come from ?17:11
ccombI'll look at it17:11
hannoschccomb: I wrote a mail about it three days ago17:11
hannoschsubject: ""17:11
j-whannosch: how did you deal with test dependencies on for example
hannoschj-w: both are still in the ZTK IIRC17:12
j-wbut will pull in almost everything right17:13
hannoschit's for the most part17:13
hannoschwe deprecated 28 packages which it didn't pull in17:13
hannoschthere's lots more to drop once we can drop and .zcmlfiles17:14
j-wah, ok17:14
j-wnow I understand better..17:14
j-wbut for these 28 packages that were dropped, you had to fix the test deps issue, right?17:14
j-wat least for some17:14
hannoschthe policy I was following was: "we can only deprecate something in 1.0 if we really don't use it anymore ourselves"17:14
hannoschthe packages we had to fix where those that weren't deprecated at all yet but depended on deprecated packages17:15
j-wok, now I understand (sorry, I'm a bit slow today ;) )17:15
hannoschnp :)17:15
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hannoschsummary: we fix one last package and cleanup and all is good17:16
hannoschok. that was me talking a lot. other topics?17:17
j-wok, so, I think this is related: when we try to get rid of even more package later on, we might want to look at the work martijn and sylvain did in their attempt to get rid of the dependency on and, replacing test infra with new stuff in zope.component.testlayer, and
j-wthat stuff should probably need more advertising17:18
hannoschright. once we have the ZTK trunk stabilized again, we should start a new round of deprecating stuff17:18
j-wjust now I saw windows test failures again in the summary post to zope-dev17:19
j-wbut other buildbot testing windows do not17:19
agroszerthat looks like pypi was down inthe night17:20
j-wow, ok17:20
hannoschgah, I lost overview of the buildbots and which ones already test trunk and branches/1.0 and which ones still believe trunk to be 1.017:20
agroszerwinbot should be right ;-)17:20
ccombthe one I maintain uses branches/1.0, but the package trunks17:21
ccombbecause branches/1.0 points to package trunks17:21
ccombexcept one17:21
hannoschccomb: ok. so next up is package branches17:21
hannoscheither we create branches for all now, or we do it on demand17:22
hannoschI don't really care either way17:22
ccombMaybe we should just create when the ztk trunk is broken17:22
j-wthat's maintenance branches for packages in the ztk-1.0, right?17:22
hannoschccomb: I'd be fine with on demand17:22
j-wI agree on demand would be ok, once we see a broken build17:22
ccombok so what remains for this meeting?17:25
* hannosch scratches head - nothing?17:25
j-wuhm, say I see a broken buildbot, how do I see exactly what branch/trunk it is checking out for testing?17:25
hannoschj-w: look in sources.cfg17:25
j-wfor example for this one:
hannoschah, so the config of the bulildbot17:25
j-win source.cfg of what?17:26
hannoschI think those aren't public yet. do3cc wanted to work on that17:26
agroszerthat sucks, we should put in an "svn info" step17:26
j-wyes, the config of the particular buildbot, to now how to reproduce the situation and to try to fix it17:26
j-wit would help clear the confusion/overview of what buildbot tests what17:27
hannoschok, any volunteer to bug do3cc or the buildbot maintainers about this?17:27
j-wuhm, ok, please :-)17:27
j-wuhm, I thought __you__ volunteerde, sorry :)17:27
agroszerI'll do17:28
agroszerI'll bug do3cc17:28
hannoschheh :)17:28
agroszerand update my bot ;-)17:28
j-wuhm, so we ask the buildbot volunteers to ass the svn info step, right?17:28
hannoschbad ass, yes :)17:28
agroszerI'd vote for svn info17:28
hannoschagroszer: +117:28
agroszerthen it's documented forever, bot config changes voer time...17:28
ccombsvn info of the ztk or packages ?17:29
agroszerI guess ztk17:29
agroszerthen you know the URL17:29
hannoschztk is enough17:29
hannoschthen you can see if it does bin/buildout or bin/buildout -c development.cfg17:29
agroszerztk URL and rev together is quite specific17:29
j-whannosch, agroszer right, as long as you have the info to reproduce it locally17:30
j-wok, great17:30
ccombmine show the revision
agroszerthat should do it, unless I miss something17:30
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hannoschschedule next meeting?17:30
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j-wnext week?17:31
j-wsame time same place?17:31
ccombok for me17:31
hannoschok for me (I'll be in Norway, but should have time)17:31
hannoschgreat, thx for the meeting :)17:32
ccombbtw how was the summit?17:32
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j-wccomb: intense17:33
agroszerlet's see when Theuni1 will do the summary ;-)17:34
* Theuni1 ducks17:34
* agroszer thought so17:34
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MatthewWilkesTheuni1: Speaking of which, are the photos from the conference going to be online anywhere?17:46
MatthewWilkesThere must be thousands of them17:46
agroszerand the slides? ;-)17:47
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Theuni1MatthewWilkes: check this for preliminary images:
* Charlie_X gets out the box of very special developer biscuits.17:51
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MatthewWilkesTheuni1: cool, ta17:52
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CIA-7adamg * r116714 zope.wineggbuilder/master.cfg: add ``svn info`` step17:58
* Theuni1 yawns18:00
* Charlie_X looks expectantly at Theuni118:00
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Theuni1me too :)18:00
Charlie_XThanks again for the hard work you and the rest of the team put into the party, the summit and the conference.18:00
agroszerwhere are your papers?18:00
Theuni1Who aside me is alive? And who can still bear with me after last week? :)18:00
Theuni1my papers are sitting on my desk18:01
Theuni1I think I will get to them this week. :)18:01
Charlie_XI don't know. Jule obviously deserves a medal!18:01
Theuni1I'll get one for her. :)18:01
tfrew87Hi I'm on zope 2.12, I have a problem with zope trying to pickle p4a.subtyper.submenu upon import of a Plone object18:01
Theuni1So, did anything come up for someone after the summit that you'd like to share?18:02
Theuni1(It did for me, but I'll wait for a second.)18:02
* hannosch survived, made it back alive, still catching up on mail :)18:02
Theuni1heh :)18:02
Theuni1Yeah. It was an intensive week and I guess others are still recovering, too. :)18:03
hannoschI shared my thoughts with the rest of Jarn, there wasn't really anything in there for public use18:03
hannoschexpect that we are in a good position with both Plone and repoze.bfg as our "platforms"18:03
hannoschexcept even18:03
Charlie_Xhannosch: that's an interesting but useful mix.18:04
hannoschI think we were lucky to avoid Zope3 and Grok. but that's just my view18:05
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Theuni1heh :)18:05
Charlie_XTheuni1: if you haven't got round to summarising the summary then maybe that can be sent to the ML for further discussion next week?18:05
Theuni1Charlie_X: i hope to do so by thursday18:06
Charlie_Xhannosch: Similar for except I also largely managed to avoid Plone! ;-)18:06
Charlie_XAlthough if I don't get any answers about my doctest problem I might have to look at plone.testing and I missed the presentation.18:07
hannoschCharlie_X: plone.testing won't help you. it's written for hard core developers with complex test layer needs18:07
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hannoschTheuni1: so anything you want to share today? or shall we move on?18:08
* Charlie_X wonders which qualifier applies to him. Both, of course.18:08
Theuni1hannosch: thanks for asking :)18:08
Theuni1For anyone who wasn't at the conference or sprint ... :)18:09
* wosc hands out seatbelts18:09
Theuni1I kept bashing my head to find a perspective on the code and history that Zope has to figure out a way forward that sounds interesting (to me, that is).18:09
* fdrake is expecting Theuni1 to announce he's switching to PHP.18:10
Theuni1Almost.  Jim pointed out that the Zope 3 effort was misguided by trying to rebuild a better Zope 2 by applying better development techniques but built on assumptions that were already skewed in Zope 2.18:10
Charlie_Xfdrake: we actually had someone at the conference who's history is PHP18:11
Theuni1(Zope 2 being an app that gradually become frameworky.)18:11
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Theuni1Charlie_X: hell. my history touched PHP. *shame*18:11
Charlie_XI used to own two of the top Google hits for "PHP is evil"18:11
Theuni1Anyway, I found that I always liked the patterns (Gary called it agile formality) that the ZCA implements.18:12
Charlie_XTheuni1: Agreed. I think we found that whatever we're working on with have a lot of the same vocabulary.18:13
Theuni1And we also noticed that other web-oriented frameworks have run ahead regarding developer-friendliness on the web-level.18:13
Theuni1But also, many "frameworks" tend towards the technical aspect of their focus (e.g. building web uis) leaving the developer on their own how to structure their app.18:13
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Theuni1I think the ZCA has value in that space. During some discussion with wosc he pointed me out to the "Ports and adapters" pattern:
Theuni1If you look through this, it almost sounds like Zope 3 minus web.18:14
Theuni1wosc and I used the sprint to research a bit more and we think there might be value to follow a goal to develop what we have in the ZCA towards a suitable set of vocabulary, guidelines and software tools to enable developers to develop more well-structured applications without sacrificing agility.18:15
Theuni1We tried some of the points in an experiment:
Theuni1One part of this would be to allow us to have a more relaxed attitude towards other technologies (like bfg, or maybe even turbogears etc) by achieving a more well defined problem space in our center of focus.18:17
Theuni1I think that's what I can say right now without rambling. :)18:17
Charlie_XThat would chime with my thinking. We have nothing to lose by opening up and nothing to gain by building barriers.18:18
* hannosch was hoping for the rant :)18:18
Theuni1hannosch: not on IRC. my fingers would bleed.18:18
Theuni1anyway. we're trying to have a sprint to think through some more ideas (incl. non-software issues) in october and i'll join the grok sprint with wolfgang in november.18:19
Theuni1I think there's a lot value in combining procedure and software (as there's no silver bullet anyway).18:19
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Theuni1Are you: [ ] thinking [ ] running away screaming [ ] waiting to go to the next issue?18:21
agroszerjust advertise the sprint date18:22
hannosch[x] waiting18:22
Charlie_XTheuni1: It's probably worth noting that the summit did produce some concrete tasks18:23
agroszerI's say get them online asap somewhere18:23
agroszerjust the tasks and one sentence18:23
agroszerand maybe who signed up for it18:24
Theuni1We got 12 or so specific tasks that represent smaller gradual steps we found worthwhile to improve various aspects "Zope".18:24
Theuni1agroszer: yeah, will do. thursday, as I said.18:24
Theuni1so, how about a next bug day?18:25
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Charlie_XWe have a Doodle for it - next week IIRC18:25
Theuni1looks like wednesday next week18:25
Theuni1I won't be able to make that, but 4 people signed up18:26
Theuni1charlie, jens, godefroid and christophe18:26
Theuni1so i'll announce 2010-09-29 as the next bug day18:26
Charlie_XGood. What was the meta stuff you wanted to cover?18:27
Theuni1Just checking up on how you think we're doing with the meeting. The last weeks have been a bit unstructured from my side as I moved flats and was sick and then the summit. Nevertheless: any issues/proposals/questions about the meeting structure?18:28
Charlie_XEven though it was unstructured I think we still managed to have some good discussions. The time slot concentrates minds.18:30
Theuni1I have one :)18:31
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Charlie_XNevertheless going forward we probably have to work out how to deal with the outcome of the summit.18:31
Theuni1I feel somewhat uncomfortable the way I select topics.18:31
Theuni1I'm like a bad random generator picking stuff from the list ;)18:31
Charlie_XTheuni1: you're doing fine unless people complain. But the announcements and requests for topics are always too late.18:32
Theuni1heh. thought so.18:32
Theuni1We agreed I should do them on Monday.18:32
goschtlwhat are the tasks more technical or documentatian ?18:32
Theuni1But then my todo lists tend to be really long on mondays and I push it away.18:32
Theuni1goschtl: so and so18:33
Charlie_XTheuni1: any chance of preparing the list on Friday and posting it on Monday?18:33
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Theuni1maybe. i could put it on my list on friday and then it would have a higher chance to get done on monday ;)18:34
Theuni1i'll try it for friday.18:34
Charlie_XI can always remind you...18:35
Theuni1do that :)18:35
Charlie_XAnytime Monday should be okay for most people I would think.18:35
Theuni1guess so :)18:35
Theuni1that's why we agreed to it in the first place18:36
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Theuni1anyway. i think that's it for today. thanks for coming :)18:37
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Theuni1enjoy the rest of the party18:37
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macaguahio guys20:11
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macaguahow i can relation two Objects with zodb for example the Person class with House Person?20:12
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planetzopebotChapter 2 draft and some words about the plan (ZODB Documentation)
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CIA-7jim 3.9 * r116715 ZODB/src/ZODB/
CIA-7Make sure temporary storage is closed, even if there is an error while23:16
CIA-7jim * r116716 /ZODB/tags/3.9.6: tag23:16
CIA-7jim 3.9.6 * r116717 ZODB/ Update version.23:16
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