IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-10-05

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CIA-7icemac * r117221 z3c.resourcecollector/ (4 files in 2 dirs):09:22
CIA-7- Made tests compatible with Python 2.5 and newer.09:22
CIA-7- Added not declared but necessary dependencies.09:22
CIA-7- Using Python's ``doctest`` module instead of depreacted09:22
CIA-7- Got rid of even undeclared `` dependency.09:22
CIA-7icemac * r117222 z3c.resourcecollector/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Conform to repository policy.09:22
CIA-7icemac * r117223 z3c.resourceinclude/ ( COPYRIGHT.txt LICENSE.txt): Conform to repository policy.09:22
CIA-7icemac * r117224 z3c.responseheaders/ (CHANGES.txt src/z3c/responseheaders/
CIA-7- Using Python's ``doctest`` module instead of depreacted09:22
CIA-7icemac * r117225 z3c.responseheaders/ (COPYRIGHT.txt LICENSE.txt Conform to repository policy.09:22
CIA-7icemac * r117226 z3c.responseheaders/src/z3c/responseheaders/ (z3c.responseheaders-configure.zcml SETUP.cfg): removed ZPKG and ZCML slugs09:22
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CIA-7icemac * r117227 (7 files in 3 dirs):10:10
CIA-7- Added not declared test dependencies.10:10
CIA-7- Updated test set up and fixed tests to run with ZTK 1.0.10:10
CIA-7- Using Python's ``doctest`` module instead of depreacted10:10
CIA-7icemac * r117228 (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 0.3.010:10
CIA-7icemac * r117229 / Tagging 0.3.010:10
CIA-7icemac * r117230 (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 0.3.110:10
CIA-7icemac * r117231 (14 files in 3 dirs): Conform to repository policy.10:10
CIA-7icemac * r117232 (CHANGES.txt - Added undeclared but necessary install dependency on ``.10:10
CIA-7icemac * r117233 (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 0.4.010:10
CIA-7icemac * r117234 / Tagging 0.4.010:10
CIA-7icemac * r117235 (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 0.4.110:10
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CIA-7janwijbrand * r117236 grokcore.startup/ (3 files in 2 dirs): re-commit a fix that somehow never made in the 1.0.1 release12:05
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117237 grokcore.startup/ (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 1.0.212:05
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117238 /grokcore.startup/tags/1.0.2: Tagging 1.0.212:05
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117239 grokcore.startup/ (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 1.0.312:05
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117240 groktoolkit/grok.cfg: use grokcore.startup bugfix release12:05
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xitriumDoes ZODB require the transaction python module?12:51
xitrium(if not how else do you commit...)12:51
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toni_I'm trying to look up the Zope2 API documentation, but fail.12:55
betabugxitrium: you mean in standalone ZODB?12:55
xitriumbetabug: yessir12:55
betabugtoni_: where are you looking12:55
toni_The "best" thing I could come up with so far, except for digging into the bowels of, is this
betabugxitrium: can't help really then, but I guess you need to commit your transactions :-)12:56
betabugtoni_: if you have a zope running, go into the ZMI and click on "help"12:56
xitriumCommitting would be nice.  It's weird to me that ZODB is packaged as a database where... you need another package installed to be able to commit (and it doesn't depend on it)...12:56
toni_All of the hints there direct me to the "built-in" API docs, which I'd love to use, but in none of my Zope2 installations, I see this "Help" link everyone is writing about.12:56
toni_Do I need to install some additional product(s)?12:57
betabugtoni_: when you see the list of items in the root folder, there it is, in the top right12:57
betabugno, it's right htere12:57
betabugxitrium: I guess it's because originally the zodb was used with zope only12:57
betabugso when they packaged it up, they might have forgotten some "small stuff" :-)12:58
betabugbut I don't really *know* this12:58
betabughey, I'm just this dude on IRC!12:58
xitriumI was just double checking12:58
xitriumsince it didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense... I'm fine with installing that package too12:58
xitriumthanks :)12:58
betabugno problem :-)12:58
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koshbetabug: greetings lifeform13:10
koshbetabug: do you know of a good apache rule that will block all .jsp, .php, .asp etc etc so I can keep adding more extensions?13:11
betabughey kosh13:11
betabughu? block??13:11
koshI was thinking of just returning a 404 or some other code for all of those13:12
betabugyou mean when bots try to access stuff?13:12
koshno reason that stuff should even be handed to the zope server behind it and it ends up with a lot more items in the error log13:12
betabugwell, a 403 would be more proper I guess13:12
koshI was going to worry about what code to return after I got it working right13:13
betabugwhat I do with some stuff is setting an environment variable (e.g. on user agent) and then I have a Deny rule13:15
koshsome of the stuff presents a legitimate user agent13:15
betabugyes, I just meant it for the plan of action13:16
koshand since I have no .php, .asp, .jsp etc stuff it seems to just make sense to drop all of them13:16
betabugSetEnvIfNoCase is what to use probably13:16
koshI was hoping for a regex pattern since then I can move it to nginx also later13:17
betabugSetEnvIfNoCase Request_URI "\.php$" block_bad_bots13:17
koshand then how do I block based on that?13:17
betabugand then in <Location "/"> you have13:17
betabugDeny from env=block_bad_bots13:18
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koshwhere would I have a Location at?13:18
koshI just have VirtualHosts13:18
betabugin the VirtualHost setup13:18
koshI don't have a location in any of them13:19
betabughmmmm, there should be a <Location> thing somewhere13:19
betabugmaybe hidden in some sub-file?13:19
koshhmm darned if I know where it would be, it is certainly not anything I have ever edited13:19
betabugsomewhere you should have "Allow" and "Deny" stuff13:20
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betabugeven if it is "Allow from all"13:20
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koshI did a grep -R and I don't see that at all13:22
betabughmmm, weird13:22
betabuglet me check on another machine13:22
betabuggot lots of "Allow from" on that machine too13:23
betabugone machine is apache 1.3, one is apache 213:23
koshyeah I have denies and allows but no Location except in a module that is not even enabled13:23
toni_No. I see: "logged in as admin", "Set Preferences", and "Go".13:23
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betabugwell, it might work without Location13:23
betabugit's just where your Denys and Allows are13:24
koshdo I set all of those for each virtual host?13:24
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betabugthe setenvifnocase you just need once in the main part of the config13:24
betabugthe Denys you need in the VH setups IIRC13:24
betabugbut there may be a more general way, dunno13:25
toni_In the root folder pane (lower right), I see "Add Plone Site", a selection widget to add an object, and "Add".13:25
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117241 groktoolkit/buildout.cfg: remove python-2.4-ism form buildout.cfg13:26
betabugtoni_: right over the selection widget there is the "Help" link13:26
betabugover the "Add" button13:26
toni_No. Can I post a screen shot to pastebin, too?13:27
betabugdunno if they take screenshots13:27
betabugthere must be a site for those too :-)13:27
betabugthose plone weirdos found yet another way to screw up zope?13:31
betabugtoni_: the "help" link would be there where it says "Add Plone Site"13:32
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koshbetabug: there is some kind of way to do it with a RewriteRule pattern [R=403] or something very close to that13:33
toni_Ok, so I should take this to the "Plone weirdos" and ask them, right?13:33
toni_No, before they answer, it would be great if you eg. have a link that I can try? Maybe it works and is just not publicized?13:34
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koshRewriteRule \.(gif|jpg|png)$ - [F,L]   ah I found that RewriteRule that should work, what do you think betabug?13:35
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toni_For the next release of Zope2, can you please make the "Help" link part of the outer blue, where the "Set Preferences" widget is, and/or part of the objects installed by default?13:41
koshI don't even know what you are talking about13:42
koshthe only Help! link I see anywhere is inside one of the frames for some objects13:43
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koshand since they are frames the iterms are not tied to each other13:45
betabugtoni_: try
toni_Site Error Resource not found Resource: z10 GET13:50
toni_Stripping the "/z10" yields a similar result.13:51
betabugups, the /z10 is from me13:51
* kosh sets betabug on fire13:51
koshbad betabug no cookie!13:51
* betabug roasts marshmallows on himself13:51
koshhmm I don't have a login to see what the ticket even is13:52
betabugtoni_: that link says "Authorization required" here13:52
koshplone is not something I deal with13:52
toni_Oh. I'm usually using Plone, but sometimes also other zopish stuff. Anyway, I was unaware that you are required to be registered to see the bug. Sorry for that.13:53
toni_The bug says that they should put the link back into the zmi.13:54
toni_How do you use Zope, btw?13:54
betabugcan somebody please open a plone ticket "stop continuously making a mess"?13:54
koshtoni_: just lots of custom things for various businesses13:55
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koshtoni_: tracking systems, some more complex real estate systems, large product stuff etc13:55
koshI don't use plone on anything13:56
toni_Do you have other instances of this "mess"? I'm not so fluent with pure Zope...13:56
betabuglet's see if I can remember the URL...13:56
betabugyupp, works13:57
toni_kosh: Thanks for the idea. I thought that you then might be using Grok or so?13:57
koshnope I have not used grok13:57
koshjust zope 2 been writing zope 2 apps for about 10 years now13:57
betabugkosh is *way* to long in the game to use something else than plain zope13:57
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koshmostly I use my own product, exUserFolder and maybe 1 or 2 others13:59
koshI even modified exUserFolder to share auth data over a zeo session object14:00
toni_Hmmm... I'm very interested to use something leaner than Plone in several cases, but would like to avoid inventing the wheel in most cases, too.14:00
koshso that it load balances very nicely14:00
koshtoni_: most of my wheels got invented before plone existed and modifying plone to do a few of the wheel things that mine does would take too long14:00
koshplone does many things that mine does not also but they are things that I don't do14:00
toni_This can well be, but I'm rather late in the game, really picking it up only after Plone 3.14:01
koshI tried to help around plone 1 or less14:01
koshthe people got very upset at very simple suggestions to make things run faster14:01
koshso I stopped caring about it long long ago14:01
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koshplone has cleaned up many things since then14:03
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toni_betabug: I was probably too rash. I've just created a plain Zope2 buildout, which pulled Zope 2.12.12 (Plone4 uses 2.12.10), and there is no "Help" link in the ZMI, either.14:28
betabughmmm, dunno14:28
betabugstill on 2.10 here14:28
betabughave done 2.12 only for playing around14:28
toni_I think I should log a bug against Zope2...14:29
toni_once I find out how to do it.14:29
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CIA-7janwijbrand * r117242 zc.catalog/buildout.cfg: use the ztk14:40
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117243 zc.catalog/src/zc/catalog/browser/ftesting.zcml: fix tests by not "implicitely depending" on anymore14:40
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117244 zc.catalog/CHANGES.txt: update changelog14:40
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117245 zc.catalog/ (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 1.4.514:40
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117246 /zc.catalog/tags/1.4.5: Tagging 1.4.514:40
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117247 zc.catalog/ (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 1.4.614:40
CIA-7janjaapdriessen * r117248 groktoolkit/grok.cfg: update to latest release candidate of the ZTK. pick up the dependency fix in zc.catalog 1.4.514:40
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CIA-7janwijbrand * r117249 groktoolkit/grok.cfg: move to zc.buildout 1.5.116:33
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CIA-7janwijbrand gary-0.8.0 * r117250 z3c.recipe.i18n/src/z3c/recipe/i18n/ make the tests pass again, by removing unneeded package installs in the test setup17:34
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CIA-7janwijbrand gary-0.8.0 * r117251 z3c.recipe.i18n/src/z3c/recipe/i18n/ revert 117250, just now things seems to have improved on the trunk that might obsolete this change17:50
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* Charlie_X coughs18:00
Charlie_XWelcome to the regular Zope-Dev meeting.18:01
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Charlie_XTypical: I start the meeting and people start leaving! ;-)18:01
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yareckonhi guys, wondering if there is a general way to list what template (dtml or page template) is rendering a certain page section?18:03
yareckonsome sort of template debug setting you could pass in the url from logged in users or something?18:04
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yareckonright now I am in a crawl through lots of includes in files and am wondering if there is a cleaner way to tell from the front end18:04
Charlie_Xyareckon: I think ZPTs have a "template" variable.18:05
Charlie_XCouldn't tell you anything about DTML but I'd be surprised if it has something similar.18:05
yareckonso I could print that somewhere for authenticated folks...18:06
yareckonwould be nice if I could put debug code in one central place that would do that18:06
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Charlie_XYes, assuming it's available. With macros enabled it can still be quite confusing.18:06
Charlie_XCheck the PageTemplate documentation.18:06
yareckonok, thanks Charlie_X18:06
Charlie_XI don't think you can put the code in one place.18:07
Charlie_XIf you really don't have any idea you could always use the debugger to step through.18:07
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Charlie_XSo, I've set up a Doodle for the next bug day.18:11
Charlie_XAnd regarding my own task of coming up with better documentation for developers I'd like to question the continued validity of the notes on the Python coding style.
Charlie_XI see no advantage and several disadvantages in not sticking with PEP8. But I also don't think there is much to gain by manically PEP8ing all existing code. I'm sure people have better things to do.18:15
J1m+1 on not pep-8-ing old code.18:17
J1malso, pep-8 is just stupid on a few things.18:17
J1mA lot of it is just something someone made up.18:17
J1mmore or less arbitrarily.18:18
J1mFor example, import order is insane in pep 818:18
benjihaving worked on a project that uses the PEP-8 import grouping style, I can reaffirm that grouping imports at all is useless18:19
J1mProbably worse than useless.18:20
J1mas it requires more work to maintain and more work to find imports.18:20
benjitoo true18:20
benjiand then people write scripts to help you group imports, and then robots kill your pets, it's a down-hill slide18:21
benjiCharlie_X: having just re-read the zope style guide -- although there are a few things I personally would do differently, in total its reccomendations are based on solid reasoning and experience; I'd keep it18:23
J1mand again, +1 to not modifying existing code solely to conform to it.18:27
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Charlie_XPoints noted. If there are problems with PEP8 we cannot solve them solely in ZTK code. But if we want to share our code with as much as the Python community as possible a common style is helpful. Again I don't think of this as too prescriptive and I certainly don't want a long, drawn out and enfuriating discussion about it.18:30
CIA-7janwijbrand * r117252 z3c.recipe.i18n/ (9 files in 2 dirs): merge gary-0.8.0 branch to add compatibility for zc.buildout-1.5.118:30
Charlie_XJ1m: I'd like to update the tasks page where possible. Can you remember the approximate timeline for the move to webob?18:31
J1mSeptember 2014.18:32
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* Charlie_X wonders if that is after all of the many mythical dates when the world is supposed to end.18:33
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Charlie_XWell, I guess that's meeting over. Thanks for your time.18:39
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CIA-7janjaapdriessen * r117253 z3c.recipe.compattest/ (5 files in 2 dirs): The z3c.recipe.scripts.scripts recipe behind zc.recipe.testrunner.TestRunner does not accept plain dicts, so we wrap the options in a _BackwardsSupportOptions object.18:48
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CIA-7janwijbrand * r117254 z3c.recipe.i18n/CHANGES.txt: update changelog21:04
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CIA-7charlie_x * r117255 / (3 files in 3 dirs):21:33
CIA-7SyndicationTool now uses an ISydnicationInfo adapter for all object settings.21:33
CIA-7Security added to previously public methods.21:33
CIA-7Additional public method added to expose syndication information.21:33
CIA-7getHTML4UpdateBase() method deprecated.21:33
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TuomasTHow can I get Zope object by url (inside url)23:06
TuomasTeg. myobj = getobj("/obs/obj1.obj") in script python23:06
MatthewWilkesTuomasT: context.restrictedTraverse("/obs/obj1.obj")23:12
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