IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2011-01-04

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davetooHow many folks actually develop/deploy Zope on MS windows, I wonder?04:20
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nitrogenycsI am developing on windows and deploying on linux, not sure about other people04:33
davetooI'm just trying to work with an existing zope-based product; not part of the team but learning the code and developing some suppor tools (Zenoss)04:35
davetooI have a windows-only UML tool that I'm trying to use to reverse-engineer some of the code to UML04:35
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koshI doubt that many people deploy to windows or even develop on it04:42
koshsince zope historically has had poor windows support because someone decides to work on it, and once they get it working well on windows they decide to run it on a unix anyways since it works even better04:43
koshand then the cycle repeats04:43
davetooAnd perhaps there's another way for me to generate class diagrams; it's just that I spent money on this tool :)04:46
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koshah I have tried to play with a few uml tools that can read python and overall I have not liked uml at all04:46
koshI found it very poor04:46
davetoobut actually, I think I've just learned that this tool doesn't actually use a python interpreter but their own internal parser, so I could just export my running zope instance via Samba and be done with it04:47
davetooyeah, I dont' expect to be able to get something rigorously correct, and if I could, it would be too big.04:48
davetoobut sometimes it helps me figure out what the heck is going on04:48
koshI think I used dia on linux and that seemed to work pretty well, it just did not seem very useful04:49
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koshoverall most free software stuff does not have very good windows support05:14
koshsince windows seems to make it so much harder to develop05:14
koshand windows still seems to have many stability issues when under load05:15
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krohithi all09:40
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krohitis zope 2.12 is supported for 64 bit windows as a service?09:41
krohitcan i run zope as a windows service?09:41
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CIA-78gotcha * r119331 /gocept.selenium/branches/gotcha-generator: prepare11:05
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CIA-78gotcha * r119331 /gocept.selenium/branches/gotcha-generator: prepare11:18
CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119332 gocept.selenium/ (4 files in 3 dirs): add script first step11:18
CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119333 gocept.selenium/CHANGES.txt: wording11:18
CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119334 gocept.selenium/src/gocept/selenium/scripts/ add main function11:18
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CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119335 gocept.selenium/src/gocept/selenium/scripts/ pyflakes11:33
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CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119336 zope.dublincore/buildout.cfg: update to ZTK 1.0.1 in order to pick up new ZODB.11:47
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CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119337 gocept.selenium/ (8 files in 3 dirs):13:50
CIA-78* use gocept.selenium classes13:50
CIA-78* script asks for layer13:50
CIA-78* add converthtmltests script generation13:50
CIA-78* egg entry point13:50
CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119337 gocept.selenium/ (8 files in 3 dirs):14:04
CIA-78* use gocept.selenium classes14:04
CIA-78* script asks for layer14:04
CIA-78* add converthtmltests script generation14:04
CIA-78* egg entry point14:04
CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119338 gocept.selenium/src/gocept/selenium/scripts/ use and report absolute paths14:04
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CIA-78cklinger * r119339 megrok.layout/src/megrok/layout/tests/layout/ (5 files in 2 dirs): changing the test of the staticfolder, which proofs now that we can deal with any kind of static_folders, but we don't test the staticfolder itself, it's up to this implementation16:11
CIA-78cklinger * r119340 megrok.layout/src/megrok/layout/tests/layout/ proof no staticfolder...16:11
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CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119341 grokui.base/src/grokui/base/ ( layout_templates/ Use the .ico functionality recently added to fanstatic.16:38
CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119342 grokcore.view/ (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 2.316:38
CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119343 /grokcore.view/tags/2.3: Tagging 2.316:38
CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119344 grokcore.view/ (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 2.416:38
CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119345 grokproject/grokproject/template/buildout.cfg_tmpl: Use released grokcore.view instead of development checkout.16:38
CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119346 gocept.selenium/ (4 files in 3 dirs): add first tests16:39
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CIA-78gotcha gotcha-generator * r119347 gocept.selenium/src/gocept/selenium/scripts/ refactor to ease testing17:04
CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119348 grokui.base/buildout.cfg: Use released grokcore.view instead of development checkout.17:04
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CIA-78janjaapdriessen * r119349 grokproject/grokproject/template/src/+package+/ (app.txt_tmpl tests.py_tmpl): Fix tests.17:57
CIA-78thet * r119350 DateTime/buildout.cfg: Removed reference to missing version section from buildout.17:57
CIA-78thet * r119351 DateTime/src/DateTime/ Remove unused import of legacy DateTimeZone.17:57
CIA-78thet * r119352 DateTime/src/DateTime/ Remove unused import of strftime.17:57
CIA-78thet * r119353 DateTime/src/DateTime/ Remove trailing whitespace17:58
CIA-78janwijbrand * r119354 grok/ (src/grok/ doc/reference/functions.rst): getApplication() is not deprecated, merely the location has changed. It is still imported by grok.17:58
CIA-78janwijbrand * r119355 grok/CHANGES.txt: update changelog17:58
CIA-78thet * r119356 DateTime/src/DateTime/ Fixed (possibly unused) _parse_iso8601 function.17:58
CIA-78thet * r119357 DateTime/src/DateTime/tests/ Fixed (possibly unused) _parse_iso8601 function.17:58
CIA-78thet * r119358 DateTime/src/DateTime/ remove trailing whitespace17:58
CIA-78thet * r119359 DateTime/src/DateTime/ remove unused import re17:58
CIA-78thet * r119360 DateTime/CHANGES.txt: code cleanup changes17:58
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CIA-78ulif * r119361 zope.pytest/ Get README and CHANGES from root dir.18:36
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CIA-78ulif * r119361 zope.pytest/ Get README and CHANGES from root dir.18:50
CIA-78ulif * r119362 zope.pytest/COPYRIGHT.txt: Copy over COPYRIGHT.18:50
CIA-78ulif * r119363 zope.pytest/LICENSE.txt: Copy over LICENSE.18:50
CIA-78ulif * r119364 zope.pytest/ Brush up to be more compatible with ZF guidelines.18:50
CIA-78ulif * r119365 zope.pytest/CHANGES.txt: Prepare history.18:50
CIA-78menesis * r119366 zope.html/ ( COPYRIGHT.txt Replace Corporation with Foundation in remaining places, add COPYRIGHT.txt18:50
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koshbetabug: are you around?19:08
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CIA-78achapman * r119367 /zope.fssync/branches/achapman-error-collection: - branch for work on commit operation returning all errors20:27
CIA-78achapman achapman-error-collection * r119368 zope.fssync/ (src/zope/fssync/ CHANGES.txt - all errors in commit mentioned on failure20:27
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j-whi ccomb21:27
j-wccomb: no hannosch yet?21:27
ccombj-w: hi!21:28
j-wccomb: give me a few minutes - i'm demanded upstairs to read a bedtime story :)21:28
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ccombhi hannosch21:29
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hannoschccomb, j-w: hi21:29
ccombj-w is reading a bedtime story upstairs :)21:29
hannoschoh, I want one too :)21:30
ccombtell him when he's back21:30
hannoschccomb: so did you release bb 1.0 now? or is that in the next days?21:31
ccombit's imminent21:31
ccombbut not today21:31
ccombtoo much work21:31
hannoschsure, just asking :)21:31
ccombthe only new stuff will be the homepage :)21:32
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hannosch_gah, my isp sucks21:34
ccombI must be drunk I'm seeing hannosch twice21:34
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hannosch_had to switch to tethering via my mobile21:34
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j-whi ccomb, hannosch21:38
j-wback now21:38
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hannoschI'm here as well21:38
hannoschdo we have any agenda at all?21:39
j-wright agenda21:39
* j-w looking at past emais21:39
hannoschwe could talk about ztk 1.1 - when we want it and what should be in it21:40
j-wyes, 1.121:40
ccombI remember I had updated all the versions in the trunk21:40
j-wand the windows-buildbot give troubles in THA's buildbot setup21:41
hannoschwindows always gives trouble for repeated jobs21:41
j-wapparently yes21:41
j-wit is sucking away time, these windows buildslaves21:42
hannoschsure. if it's too much, feel free to reduce the scope and test less21:42
hannoschyou are already doing a lot21:42
j-wwell, janjaap is, if it comes to windows buildslaves21:43
hannoschyep. make sure he stays sane - if he gets all upset and grumpy, tell him to stop doing Windows ;)21:43
j-wI will and I have :)21:43
j-wthe z3c.compattest release wel talked about last time, that is done indeed21:44
j-wyou released a few packages that other package's trunk relied on21:44
hannoschright. I think we finished all the tasks we signed up for21:44
j-wso, I guess if we up the version on the trunk, we're in fact close to 1.1, right?21:44
hannoschdo we want any of the refactoring in it?21:45
hannoschseveral people had interest in that21:45
j-wow, not sure I know what that means?21:45
j-wsomething I should catch up with on zope-dev?21:46
hannoschjinty said he might be interested in cleaning things up in combination with zope.testbrowser21:46
hannoschjanjaap said he'd be interested21:46
j-waha, right21:46
hannoschand I thought it's one dependency Grok wanted to get rid of in some way21:46
j-wwell, it is more the .app. part in the name21:47
koshwhat does removing Products.BTreeFolder2 etc from 2.14 mean for those of us that use them?21:47
j-wbut the things in there are really being used by grok21:47
hannoschkosh: I'll answer your mail in a bit - meeting now :)21:47
j-wi'm looking more at if it comes to trying to get rid of21:48
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hannoschah right. that's a beast21:48
j-was it contains code that grok isn't using21:48
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j-wccomb: BB using I guess?21:48
ccombnot sure21:49
j-wit is bootstrapping stuf that grok might want to do slightly different, like for example the error reporting utility21:49
j-wthat still is very much geared towards a ZMI21:49
ccombthere is no zmi in blulebream21:49
ccombbut I see the dependency anyway21:50
hannoschI'd guess Grok would want to copy some parts of that policy into the grok package itself21:50
j-wccomb: appsetup also ensure there's an Application root folder in the ZODB21:50
j-wwhen the ZODB is bootstrapped21:50
j-wand some grok people played with an option to run grok without ZODB21:51
j-w(when using an ORM for example and also the GAE got renewed interest en pypy as well - platforms for which the ZODB might be problematic in some way)21:51
j-wi have the feeling we should not wait for refactorings for ztk-1.121:52
j-wand we can easily do a 1.2 if the wsgi refactorings land earlier than expected, right?21:52
hannoschI'm planning a Zope 2.14 release with ztk 1.1 sometime in the next 3-6 months21:52
j-wgrok is moving towards 1.4 soonish21:53
j-w(weeks rather than months)21:53
hannoschI could as well go for a ztk 1.2 for zope 2.14 though21:53
j-wand 1.1 might be interesting there too21:53
j-was grok overrides some versions alread21:53
hannoschright. so does zope 2.1321:53
hannoschI don't have a problem with aiming for a ztk 1.1 in 4-6 weeks or so21:54
hannoschwe can just announce the plan on zope-dev, give people some time to respond and then do it21:54
j-weven though i hope grok 1.4 will be there sooner than that21:54
j-wbut that's not a problem, it would've been nice, but no problem21:54
hannoscheven sooner? you guys are in release-mania :)21:55
j-wyes the announcement sounds fine21:55
j-whannosch: hehehehehe, yeah well21:55
j-wthere's some momentum back again21:55
hannoschwell, if it helps grok, I don't mind doing a ztk release in a week even21:55
j-wwell, if the tests all pass with upped versions and all, why not?21:55
j-wbut again, it would not really be a problem to have grok 1.4 on ztk 1.0.x21:56
* hannosch cannot think of any good reason21:56
j-wlet's do it! :-)21:56
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hannoschj-w: you wanna tell zope-dev?21:56
hannoschccomb: yes21:57
j-whannosch: ok21:57
hannoschdrops Python 2.4 support, finally! :)21:57
hannoschwe only said we'd keep it until end of last year :)21:57
hannoschnew year, new fun21:57
j-wexcept for an updated version list, what more changed: python2.4 out, python2.7 in, anything else?21:58
j-wdeprecated quite some more stuff21:58
hannoschthe ztk is just a version list, there's not much else that can change ;)21:58
j-wwell, some policy decisions of course21:58
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j-wok, i'll write a short heads up that we would like to do a release somewhere next week21:59
hannoschI'll try to go through the version diff and write some high-level change notes22:00
j-wthat would be very nice22:00
hannoschthe readme.txt in trunk is a good place, I'd guess22:00
hannoschare there still problems with buildout 1.5? many people complaining, or did that calm down?22:01
j-waha, right, well, i think people calmed down22:01
j-wbut i'm not 100% sure all problems are gone22:01
j-wwe had some virtualenv related reports22:02
hannoschok. if there's some problems left, we can all fix those together22:02
j-wbut that was the -S issue22:02
j-wwe should test the ztk in both a virtualenv and with a "system" python22:03
j-wor a custom compiled python22:03
j-wand see if that works22:03
hannoschI have my Python in a virtualenv, I'll test that part22:03
j-wi'm usually not using a virtualenv but a custom python install with hardly anything in it22:03
j-wbut testing in a ubuntu system python is easy enough for me as well22:04
j-wi'll do the custom python install part22:04
hannoschmine is a python build via a buildout and then wrapped into a virtualenv :)22:04
koshI normally use a system python on a virtual server22:04
j-wall these hoops... :)22:04
hannoschj-w: Florian Schulze did this, it works on Macs, I'm lazy and use it :)22:05
hannoschok. we have a plan, meeting next week to talk about the 1.1 release or do / celebrate it?22:06
j-wccomb: you ok with next week?22:06
j-wtuesday again?22:06
* ccomb checking22:06
hannoschor swamped with work? I'd totatlly understand :)22:06
ccombok for next tuesday22:07
hannoschotherwise j-w and me could meet and just do the release sometime next week22:07
hannoschaha, cool. 20:30 + len(bedtime story) ?22:07
hannoschgreat, thanks guys!22:08
* hannosch misses the coffee and cookies from the early meetings, bye ;)22:08
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CIA-78hannosch * r119369 /zopetoolkit/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Write some high-level news for 1.1, move Python version compatibility statements into the release specific docs22:40
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CIA-78cklinger * r119370 /Sandbox/cklinger/ (46 files in 11 dirs): initial import22:59
CIA-78cklinger * r119371 /Sandbox/cklinger/ (32 files in 8 dirs): cleaning22:59
CIA-78cklinger * r119372 /Sandbox/cklinger/ (.mr.developer.cfg pytt/.mr.developer.cfg): removing mr.developer.cfg22:59
CIA-78cklinger * r119373 /Sandbox/cklinger/pytt/extends-cache: adding the extends-cache22:59
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CIA-78hannosch * r119374 Zope/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Updated to Zope Toolkit 1.1dev.23:33
CIA-78hannosch * r119375 Zope/src/Testing/ZopeTestCase/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Update some references to the testrunner and removed obsolete docs in ZTC23:33
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