| RaceCondition | kosh: cool, thanks; is there a place these things are documented? | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| RaceCondition | zodb.org? I don't think so | 00:06 |
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| kosh | hmm that one I don't remember where it is documented | 00:07 |
| kosh | I know I read it in a zope dev guide at some point | 00:07 |
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| RaceCondition | well, Zope is too big to learn if all you want is ZODB... | 00:10 |
| kosh | that is true but I have never used just the ZODB and when I learned this ZODB docs did not exist, I have been writing zope apps for about 10 years | 00:10 |
| kosh | and i have not realy kept up on the best place for a new person to start learning | 00:10 |
| kosh | just like once you learn language foo you don't really keep up on new tutorials for language foo :) | 00:11 |
| RaceCondition | yeah :) | 00:13 |
| RaceCondition | well, that's a shame | 00:13 |
| RaceCondition | I hope one day ZODB will be well documented and in all other ways a nice citizen of the Python world | 00:13 |
| kosh | I suspect it is well documented somewhere, I just have no idea where that is | 00:14 |
| RaceCondition | possible; I hope I'll find it one day, and/or it makes its way to zodb.org | 00:15 |
| RaceCondition | ...but another question :P is there a way to determine if a class implements an interface directly? | 00:15 |
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| RaceCondition | i.e. if there's an implements(IFoo) directive in the class, I want to get [IFoo], but if there's nothing, I want to get [], even if a parent class implements an interface | 00:16 |
| kosh | that does not make much sense | 00:17 |
| kosh | since in OO theory a child is a parent | 00:17 |
| kosh | you are asking for a child not to inherit from a parent which does not make sense | 00:17 |
| kosh | but I also don't know that one I don't use interfaces | 00:17 |
| RaceCondition | I only need it for introspection | 00:17 |
| RaceCondition | I have schemas defined for model which I use like forms | 00:18 |
| RaceCondition | to be able to parse and validate incoming raw data | 00:18 |
| RaceCondition | so I need to retrieve the right schema to validate against | 00:18 |
| RaceCondition | and it's the schema that an object's class directly implements | 00:18 |
| RaceCondition | OK, got it | 00:22 |
| RaceCondition | http://dpaste.com/585811/ | 00:24 |
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| planetzopebot | Plone 4 connect to Mysql and dispay sql query result on the plone page (active questions tagged zope - Stack Overflow) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6933155/plone-4-connect-to-mysql-and-dispay-sql-query-result-on-the-plone-page | 01:08 |
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| planetzopebot | Shutting down an HTTPServer (gocept developer blog) http://gocept.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/shutting-down-an-httpserver/ | 13:08 |
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| Solgema | if look at that code : http://davisagli.com/blog/visualizing-the-zodb-with-graphviz | 14:55 |
| Solgema | is that a way to know in which attribute of the classes the diffrent objects are stored? | 14:55 |
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| humanfromearth | hello, I have an OOBtree object and when I perform a ob.get() I get an UnicodeDecodeError | 16:05 |
| humanfromearth | why OOBtree tries to decode the key? | 16:06 |
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| planetzopebot | How to get a Value into a creation of an Method-Block (active questions tagged zope - Stack Overflow) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6942094/how-to-get-a-value-into-a-creation-of-an-method-block | 17:08 |
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| orboss | i had a question about docs.zope.org the zope2 zope development guide, it seems that there is a typo? it wants you to make a directory poll_build but later on it refers to poll.build is this right? it is throwing me off somewhat | 19:08 |
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| kosh | hail evil sm | 19:40 |
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| sm | hail kosh! HAIL ZOPE | 19:41 |
| kosh | despite all the efforts to kill it | 19:41 |
| sm | soon, SOON world domination will be ours! | 19:41 |
| kosh | actually in a few years I hope to be out of web programming entirely | 19:42 |
| kosh | I start school soon again | 19:42 |
| kosh | going back to get a degree in chemical and biological engineering | 19:43 |
| kosh | I want to go into biotech and nanotech work | 19:44 |
| sm | biology is a hot field | 19:45 |
| sm | and knowing a bit of computer wizardry won't hurt! | 19:45 |
| kosh | yeah it won't hurt at all | 19:46 |
| kosh | I just want out of programming as a primary task | 19:46 |
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| kosh | sm: arn't there times you are tired of web stuff and programming in general? | 19:56 |
| kosh | besides I see nanotech/biotech stuff as a way to do something more useful | 19:57 |
| kosh | work on regeneration technology, life extension, immune system modification, self repairing structures, self powering structures etc | 19:59 |
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| sm | certainly there are | 20:06 |
| kosh | it just seems this web stuff is not very useful and despite a bit of progress that happens from time to time most of the time is going backwards | 20:10 |
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| kosh | zope was a very good framework with an actual security policy and finally a fail closed system | 20:11 |
| kosh | and since then we have had grok built on top and it is fail open | 20:11 |
| kosh | despite all the security flaws floating around in modern web apps we still get no security by default | 20:11 |
| kosh | it just seems there is no way to move forward | 20:11 |
| kosh | new frameworks have to be something you can point and drool your way through and you can write something with in 5 minutes with a video | 20:12 |
| kosh | but it can't have any form of security, sane caching system etc it has to have lots of flashy stuff though | 20:13 |
| sm | I like the haskell-based stuff myself | 20:13 |
| sm | zope was great, but it's far too expensive for me to work with on a new project today | 20:14 |
| kosh | despite how much I don't like plone out of the modern frameworks it still has an insanely better security track record | 20:14 |
| kosh | how is zope too expensive? | 20:15 |
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| sm | I should qualify: for my needs. I don't want to get into it, but complexity and high cost of ownership over time | 20:16 |
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| kosh | so far I have seen all web frameworks as having a high cost of ownership | 20:16 |
| kosh | if you build something in django you have no idea if it will work in 5 years or 10 years | 20:17 |
| kosh | same with rails and darn near everything else | 20:17 |
| sm | a certain class of runtime error just doesn't happen with the haskell frameworks. That's why I'm focussed there now | 20:17 |
| kosh | no guarantee any haskell framework you choose will work in a few years either | 20:18 |
| kosh | it could easily be abandoned also for something cooler | 20:18 |
| sm | I think it's more likely; the abstractions and interfaces are much stronger | 20:18 |
| sm | I think it will have a longer life span. But who knows | 20:18 |
| kosh | however does it have a good security system? | 20:19 |
| kosh | ie fail closed | 20:19 |
| sm | the frameworks are very young, but I would guess very likely yes. Haven't used it yet | 20:19 |
| kosh | nothing is allowed unless explicitely permitted, no url allows access without explicit permission | 20:19 |
| kosh | I have seen no new system that is fail closed yet | 20:19 |
| kosh | grok is fail open as are all the z3 based systems I know of | 20:20 |
| kosh | pyramid is fail open but with a one line change you can set it to fail closed by default | 20:20 |
| kosh | django, rails, php etc are all fail open | 20:20 |
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| sm | breakfast.. afk a little | 20:21 |
| kosh | ok | 20:21 |
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