IRC log of #zope for Thursday, 2011-08-04

RaceConditionkosh: cool, thanks; is there a place these things are documented?00:06 I don't think so00:06
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koshhmm that one I don't remember where it is documented00:07
koshI know I read it in a zope dev guide at some point00:07
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RaceConditionwell, Zope is too big to learn if all you want is ZODB...00:10
koshthat is true but I have never used just the ZODB and when I learned this ZODB docs did not exist, I have been writing zope apps for about 10 years00:10
koshand i have not realy kept up on the best place for a new person to start learning00:10
koshjust like once you learn language foo you don't really keep up on new tutorials for language foo :)00:11
RaceConditionyeah :)00:13
RaceConditionwell, that's a shame00:13
RaceConditionI hope one day ZODB will be well documented and in all other ways a nice citizen of the Python world00:13
koshI suspect it is well documented somewhere, I just have no idea where that is00:14
RaceConditionpossible; I hope I'll find it one day, and/or it makes its way to zodb.org00:15
RaceCondition...but another question :P is there a way to determine if a class implements an interface directly?00:15
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RaceConditioni.e. if there's an implements(IFoo) directive in the class, I want to get [IFoo], but if there's nothing, I want to get [], even if a parent class implements an interface00:16
koshthat does not make much sense00:17
koshsince in OO theory a child is a parent00:17
koshyou are asking for a child not to inherit from a parent which does not make sense00:17
koshbut I also don't know that one I don't use interfaces00:17
RaceConditionI only need it for introspection00:17
RaceConditionI have schemas defined for model which I use like forms00:18
RaceConditionto be able to parse and validate incoming raw data00:18
RaceConditionso I need to retrieve the right schema to validate against00:18
RaceConditionand it's the schema that an object's class directly implements00:18
RaceConditionOK, got it00:22
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planetzopebotPlone 4 connect to Mysql and dispay sql query result on the plone page (active questions tagged zope - Stack Overflow)
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planetzopebotShutting down an HTTPServer (gocept developer blog)
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Solgemaif look at that code :
Solgemais that a way to know in which attribute of the classes the diffrent objects are stored?14:55
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humanfromearthhello, I have an OOBtree object and when I perform a ob.get() I get an UnicodeDecodeError16:05
humanfromearthwhy OOBtree tries to decode the key?16:06
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planetzopebotHow to get a Value into a creation of an Method-Block (active questions tagged zope - Stack Overflow)
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orbossi had a question about the zope2 zope development guide, it seems that there is a typo? it wants you to make a directory poll_build but later on it refers to is this right? it is throwing me off somewhat19:08
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koshhail evil sm19:40
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smhail kosh! HAIL ZOPE19:41
koshdespite all the efforts to kill it19:41
smsoon, SOON world domination will be ours!19:41
koshactually in a few years I hope to be out of web programming entirely19:42
koshI start school soon again19:42
koshgoing back to get a degree in chemical and biological engineering19:43
koshI want to go into biotech and nanotech work19:44
smbiology is a hot field19:45
smand knowing a bit of computer wizardry won't hurt!19:45
koshyeah it won't hurt at all19:46
koshI just want out of programming as a primary task19:46
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koshsm: arn't there times you are tired of web stuff and programming in general?19:56
koshbesides I see nanotech/biotech stuff as a way to do something more useful19:57
koshwork on regeneration technology, life extension, immune system modification, self repairing structures, self powering structures etc19:59
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smcertainly there are20:06
koshit just seems this web stuff is not very useful and despite a bit of progress that happens from time to time most of the time is going backwards20:10
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koshzope was a very good framework with an actual security policy and finally a fail closed system20:11
koshand since then we have had grok built on top and it is fail open20:11
koshdespite all the security flaws floating around in modern web apps we still get no security by default20:11
koshit just seems there is no way to move forward20:11
koshnew frameworks have to be something you can point and drool your way through and you can write something with in 5 minutes with a video20:12
koshbut it can't have any form of security, sane caching system etc it has to have lots of flashy stuff though20:13
smI like the haskell-based stuff myself20:13
smzope was great, but it's far too expensive for me to work with on a new project today20:14
koshdespite how much I don't like plone out of the modern frameworks it still has an insanely better security track record20:14
koshhow is zope too expensive?20:15
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smI should qualify: for my needs. I don't want to get into it, but complexity and high cost of ownership over time20:16
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koshso far I have seen all web frameworks as having a high cost of ownership20:16
koshif you build something in django you have no idea if it will work in 5 years or 10 years20:17
koshsame with rails and darn near everything else20:17
sma certain class of runtime error just doesn't happen with the haskell frameworks. That's why I'm focussed there now20:17
koshno guarantee any haskell framework you choose will work in a few years either20:18
koshit could easily be abandoned also for something cooler20:18
smI think it's more likely; the abstractions and interfaces are much stronger20:18
smI think it will have a longer life span. But who knows20:18
koshhowever does it have a good security system?20:19
koshie fail closed20:19
smthe frameworks are very young, but I would guess very likely yes. Haven't used it yet20:19
koshnothing is allowed unless explicitely permitted, no url allows access without explicit permission20:19
koshI have seen no new system that is fail closed yet20:19
koshgrok is fail open as are all the z3 based systems I know of20:20
koshpyramid is fail open but with a one line change you can set it to fail closed by default20:20
koshdjango, rails, php etc are all fail open20:20
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smbreakfast.. afk a little20:21
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