IRC log of #zope for Friday, 2011-09-16

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jakke1Hi guys, I'm having a StorageTransactionError in ZODB.BaseStorage12:16
jakke1plone4.1 with ZODB-3.10.3 and transaction-1.1.112:16
jakke1trying to do a multiple undo in the ZMI12:16
jakke1I can't find any reported bug on this in de zope bug reports12:17
jakke1anyone seen this before or hints where to start debugging?12:17
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koshjakke1: what are you trying to do when you get that error?15:22
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jakke1I'm running an undo in plone; trying to roll back the removal of 3 files in a folder15:50
jakke1running pdb now in transaction-1.1.1/transaction/; but my mental model of what's going on is not right yet15:50
koshare you undoing multiple transactions or just one? how are you doing the undo? have other things tried to change those same documents since the files where deleted?15:52
jakke1multiple undo15:52
jakke1I deleted 3 files; one by one. Then select those 3 actions in the undo window int he zmi and click undo15:52
koshwhat about other things that have tried to add or remove files in the same folder since then? where those files put in the catalog? etc15:54
koshhow long ago did it happen?15:56
jakke1one single undo action is not a problem15:56
jakke1how long ago: today, as soon as I started debugging the issue; around 10 this morning15:56
koshso what happens if you undo them one at a time?15:57
jakke1one at the time is no problem15:57
koshso why not just do it that way?15:57
jakke1multiple in the same batch is an issue15:57
koshI have run into multiples undoing at the same time a problem but ony when they have modified some common resource15:58
jakke1we have had issues doing that, but I haven't been able to reproduce that yet15:58
jakke1I'm using files in the same folder; so the common resource is the folder15:59
jakke1btw: the files do are in the portal_catalog15:59
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jakke1tried a couple more scenarios16:04
koshthe odds are some common resource is causing a problem, you can try posting your question on the zope list but overall just try to undo them one by one and see if it works16:05
jakke1it's ZODB-3.10.3 which requires transaction > 1.1.0 (having 1.1.1)16:05
jakke1and the changelog somewhere states they made some checks more strict16:06
jakke1tried to figure out with diff if there were changes in that part of the code where I started debugging, but that doesn't seem to be16:07
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jakke1common resource seems to be pretty wide defined: remove Plone/a/b; remove Plone/b/c ; so a page in 2 folders that are next to each other16:13
jakke1and still: StorageTransactionError Duplicate tpc_begin calls for same transaction16:13
koshprobably have the catalog in common16:13
koshoverall you can't rely on undo for anyting other then an emergency16:14
jakke1we needed the undo for an emergence; due to another bug found by accident16:15
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jakke1a folder that shouldn't be removed, could not be recovered (tried cut-n-paste, but only cut worked out and clipboard went empty)16:15
jakke1and some other actions were done after that; so we had to undo 4-5 actions16:16
jakke1that's why I'm debugging now16:16
koshdon't use cut and paste16:18
koshuse copy and paste and then delete16:18
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jakke1it's not about us, we can hit the wall, find a solution and use it; it's about the users16:19
koshthe users are deleting stuff?16:19
jakke1not all users realize they can get the same result with copy-paste-delete16:19
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jakke1it happens that users delete stuff they din't want to be deleted too yes16:20
koshah that is not something I have run into16:20
jakke1and since there is no trashbin, our first option is undo, the second is the whole backup procedure; zexp export import, ...16:20
koshundoing tends to be a pretty nasty problem in most systems I have run into, better to figure out how not to have to undo16:21
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jakke1I get your point, and that would be ideal, but also nearly impossible16:23
jakke1the day you think you covered all usecases, some user will do something unforeseen and off you go again16:23
jakke1too many options16:23
koshyes and in any relational db system, nosql system etc you end up with a lot of problems trying to undo things16:24
koshsince future transactions depend on the state of previous transactions etc16:25
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jakke1that's why it would be really nice to have the undo we had before16:33
jakke1don't want to give up the comfort you're used to16:33
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koshI suspect it was fixed because the old one would lead to some strange errors but ask on the zope dev list and find out16:37
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jakke1I'm running on the latest code of transaction and ZODB, so I don't really get what you mean by the "old one"16:40
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jakke1but I'll pop the question on the list as you suggest, thanks16:40
koshthe older transaction code that used to work for you I think had strange problems sometimes16:45
koshlike undoing putting the catalog in an inconsistent state16:45
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jakke1ok, now it starts to make sence to me16:47
jakke1sounds like I'll be playing way out of my league here, but having a look won't harm ;-)16:47
koshI just remember there where some strange bugs and screwing up the catalog can screw up other things16:48
koshespecially in plone16:48
koshso they probably tightened things up to fix that issue and broke some other case that you need16:48
koshasking about in on zope-dev list though might give you a better solution16:48
koshI do with cut and paste had been doing differently in zope though16:49
koshit should have been implemented as copy paste verify delete16:49
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jakke1got a suggestion from a colleague; I'm going to try if I have the same issue on plone4.0; to be sure it's not the catalog implementation17:03
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koshnot a clue for plone itself, I don't use it on any system17:22
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