IRC log of #zope for Thursday, 2011-10-27

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mejodo you plan to release zope 2.12.21 and 2.13.11 with fixed vulnerability anytime soon?12:55
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zopeplanetbotSecurity vulnerability announcement: 20110928 - Arbitrary Code Execution (Plone News)
zopeplanetbotSecurity vulnerabiity 20110928: Arbitrary CodeExecution (pre-announcement) (gmane.comp.web.zope.announce)
zopeplanetbotPyCon DE 2011 - Three Keynotes: From the Outside, From the Inside, and Scientific (The PyCon blog)
zopeplanetbotGreat Training Options Still Available on the Eve of Plone Conference 2011 in San Francisco (Plone News)
betabugwhat's it with all those security vulns popping up in the *new* zope versions lately?13:10
lewellynno one targets the old ones anymore ;)13:10
lewellynmoral of the story: never upgrade!13:10
betabuglewellyn: well, they obviously tested if the problem is around in old ones13:10
betabuglewellyn: not always an option13:11
lewellynyeah, but the "bad guys" aren't poking at the old things which likely have unpatched/unpatchable bugs as they're a smaller surface area of the internet13:11
betabugbut a review of the new code changes would probably be a good thing13:11
betabuglewellyn: I don't think so, there are spammers targetting old coreblog installs for example13:12
lewellynspam's easy. security vulns is not as easy.13:12
d2mbetabug: is the zopeplanetbot new?13:13
betabuganyway, that announcement got stuck somewhere in the planetzope/irc bot pipeline for a while13:13
betabugd2m: dunno, I don't see joins/leaves13:13
d2mwhasn't it called planetzopebot before?13:13
d2mok, will check with sm13:13
betabugd2m: btw, what would it take to continue running the planet?13:14
d2mnerves like steel ;)13:14
betabughahaha, it's that messy?13:14
d2mno, its unattended, works without problems13:15
mejono plans to release fixed zope2.12 and 2.13 yet?13:15
betabughow about hardware / bandwidth?13:15
d2mno, its just the content that makes me sad, people stopped blogging13:17
d2mzope people at least13:17
betabugmejo: I haven't seen any release date mentioned, I guess the answer is "when they are ready", as was mentioned in the security announcement13:17
betabugd2m: yeah13:17
betabugwell, in my case it will pick up again, maybe not to what it was, but I plan to write a bit more13:18
mejobetabug: interestingly, the fix is already commited to zope2.12 svn branch at least.13:18
betabuggotta get some PR for my new business :-D13:18
d2mbetabug: whats your next business?13:18
betabugI created a company, I'll do freelancing basically, working together with others if projects are big13:19
d2msame here ;)13:19
betabugnew projects, maintaining old stuff, whatever13:19
betabugso I'd like to help keep the planet around13:19
d2mso, basically has some 50 requests a day, won't even pay its share through google adsense13:20
betabugI can imagine13:20
d2myes, its that bad - really13:20
betabugso how can I support you there? or you prefer to pass on running the planet to someone else?13:22
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d2mbetabug: nice idea13:31
betabugwhich one? :-)13:31
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zopeplanetbot#planetzope Just changed the filter at to ['zope', 'zope2', (Michael Haubenwallner - Google+ User Feed)
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koshbetabug: hail evil creature!15:29
betabughey kosh15:30
koshit is pretty strange we have so many security problems recently15:30
koshespecially since none of the recent ones I have read of work on older versions15:30
betabuglooks like some people did some changes to code that was ok for a long time15:31
koshand those changing the code I don't think really care much about zope anymore15:32
koshit is not cool enough anymore15:32
koshone major thing I have seen is that there seems to be a general view against anything reliable and stable in technology for web stuff right now15:36
kosheverything is burn down and start over regardless of if the new system is actually better15:36
koshit is just important to constantly be burning down and starting over15:36
betabugyes, "a rewrite will get rid of all the bugs" -> but then there will be new bugs15:37
koshpeople completely switch frameworks every year or so, so no point in learning how the framework works so you can use it effectively15:37
kosha rewrite tends to reintroduce a lot of old fixed bugs :)15:37
betabugthat too15:38
koshthe new systems are usually massive security holes, slow, lose data but that does not matter they are cool and that is all that matters15:38
koshweb 2.0 distributed systems with ajax everywhere and nosql databases even for tiny systems that have no need of scaling and constantly screw up15:39
koshone reason I am glad to be moving away from this15:41
koshpeople even talk about making their sites faster by moving to this tech but that does not work15:41
koshmeanwhile I have a method that works on any web tech to speed a site up a HUGE ammount that is easy to do and people just don't care because it is not a cool method for doing it, it is just one that works in all cases15:42
benjikosh: care to elucidate?16:03
kosh    I made a video on it for one of my classes16:05
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koshit is use Cache-Control, Expires, and permanent urls16:05
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smd2m: yes the bot got renamed to as part of a cleanup on my end16:46
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d2msm, fine - just asking because the bot picked up older entries17:55
smd2m: ack, I'll investigate. I've recently worked on it to prevent exactly that17:57
smd2m: which was an old entry ?18:00
smoh I see18:02
d2msm, maybe the issue was caused by me18:05
betabughey sm! how's life?18:05
d2mi removed 'plone' from the filter, thus some entries disappeared18:05
d2msm, i suppose you use a queue for storing rss items and checking for new ones18:07
smhey guys18:07
smyeah let's see if rss2irc did the right thing.. here's the change:
smcurrent strategy is (should be) "take all new items appearing anywhere in the feed" where "new" means "pub date more recent that previous top item's" and "id not matching the last 200 items seen"18:09
d2msm, everything ok, was just a transient issue18:10
smso there has actually only been one security announcement in recent months, hopefully18:12
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smrss2irc not behaving as intended here, it should have rejected those since they had older dates. Good to know18:12
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koshsee you freaks later18:18
smlater kosh18:18
koshand watch my video if you want to learn about how to make websites much much faster via simple caching18:19
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betabugrss tools often misbehave when you remove stuff, it's a common oversight18:31
smyeah I'm trying hard to make it always do something sensible right now18:34
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smshould be fixed!18:54
smd2m: please feel free to change your feed often, it's quite helpful :)18:54
d2msm ;)18:55
smtesting this stuff is quite tricky/tedious18:55
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smso have y'all seen runyaga's announcement of ptah on the plone list ? probably not ? sounds interesting!18:56
smshould show up in the feed soon I expect18:58
* sm breakfasts18:59
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koshbetabug: oh that video I linked to is my revised video, it is much faster paced then before with some additional information including where a zope product is to accomplish the same task along with the headers needed in the video description20:32
koshbetabug: so thanks for the feedback on my earlier version it helped a lot20:32
betabugkosh: great! you're welcome20:33
koshnow if only I could get others to actually adopt the stuff in that video20:33
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koshbetabug: out of curiosity do you have excel 2010 and want to see a 3d terrain simulator in it? ;)20:33
betabugnope, no excel here20:34
koshI just have a class on engineering with excel20:35
koshso I went WAY WAY overboard and created a 3d terrain generator20:35
koshthe project that won last year was a 2d graphic calculator that was very slow and only did simple functions20:36
koshI can generate rivers, ridges, lakes, mountains, and change ground level all with it being randomly generated now I just have to get rotation working :)20:36
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koshbetabug: I really realy badly abused excel :)20:39
betabuglooks like :-)20:39
koshthe professor and TAs have looked at the project and say they can't help me with it at all since it has gone beyond everything they know how to do with excel20:40
betabughar har20:41
betabugdo you get your money back for the course?20:41
koshthey would not even let me test out of it20:43
koshbut someone suggested I actually submit the program to microsoft and some professional engineers have even asked to look at it so who knows it might help in the future20:43
lewellyn"this is what happens when you don't allow testing out of courses: the students get bored. next semester, i'm going to simulate nuclear explosions at the school."20:53
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reprIs it possible to download the xsl files for ide's completion?21:04
koshlewellyn: yeah I was very bored and have gone so far beyond what the class wants it is not even funny21:27
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