IRC log of #zope for Thursday, 2012-08-09

« Wednesday, 2012-08-08 Index Friday, 2012-08-10 »
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sqwishySuppose I'm trying to use zope to make serializers to turn object into strings. It seems simple to use adapters to get strings from objects. But I'm not sure how to go the other way.00:54
sqwishyI can obtain an adapter from an object which I want serialized, but I can't obtain the adapter from the serialized string.00:54
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J1msqwishy, see http://svn.zope.org/zope.fssync/trunk/ which does what you're talking about more or less.01:37
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* mgedmin wants to improve z3c.password exception messages13:53
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* mgedmin wants to kill himself14:08
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* mgedmin gets first signs of success!14:39
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mgedminanybody cares about z3c.password and would like to take a look at http://zope3.pov.lt/trac/changeset/127450 ?15:23
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mgedminwhat was that tool that used SETUP.cfg files?15:44
mgedminis it dead dead dead?15:44
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mgedminzpkg, I think?15:45
mgedminoh, gmane... "14 Nov 18:25"15:46
mgedminWHAT YEAR?15:46
mgedminturns out, 200515:46
mgedminbut nooo, time of day is way more important to see in a discussion than the fricking year15:46
* mgedmin realizes the year and month are visible in the sidebar15:47
nandexd i have no idea what z3c.password is15:47
betabugmgedmin: gmane's date thing is really idiotic, I think you have to dig for the year in the headers15:51
mgedminI dug it out of svn logs given revision numbers (the zpkg mailing list is quiet -- spam and svn log messages)15:51
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agroszermgedmin, go ahead and cut a release15:54
mgedminof z3c.password?  I can do that...15:54
agroszeryup15:54
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makerHello.20:36
makerI have an interface and a mixin class, with a few abstractmethods. I was wondering if there was something to achieve the result of "raise NotImplementedError" if the specific method was not overrided withoud breaking verify.verifyObject.20:38
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benbangertJ1m: around?22:46
benbangertgot a weird heisenbug in logging thread madness with gevent :)22:46
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benbangertJ1m: your logging trick isn't good enough. https://github.com/python-zk/kazoo/issues/1622:58
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benbangertJ1m: because the logger has a lock, and the monkey patching mucks up the lock with a gevent lock....22:58
J1mHave I mentioned my opinion of gevent monkey patching?23:05
benbangertJ1m: found a solution.... grabbing the logging Handler instance itself, and setting lock = None on it23:07
benbangertwill prevent it from attempting to lock at all during writing output23:07
benbangertyea, I know, it sucks23:08
benbangert:)23:08
J1mbenbangert, so this is really an issue w gevent and logging.23:08
benbangertsince this is the only user of the ZooKeeper logging handler, it shouldn't need to lock23:08
benbangertyea, cause logging handlers make a threading.RLock instance..... and when monkey-patched..... boom23:08
J1mThat's a stretch imo.23:08
benbangertI could replace the lock on the handler instance with a proper threading lock23:09
J1manyone can use any logger they want.23:09
benbangertthough I have to dig up the real un-monkey-patched one :)23:09
benbangertits really nasty to get an unadulterated one though :(23:09
J1mIt's nasty to run around monkey patching things in such a profound way.23:10
J1mMonkey patching in gevent is optional.23:10
J1mI use gevent wo monkey patching.23:10
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benbangertsure, but not everyone does23:12
J1mThis is a hard problem to solve.  You're basically saying that gevent is going to break a basic feature of the standard library and that kazoo has to somehow work around that.23:12
benbangertthats correct23:12
benbangertgevent monkey patching breaks logging23:12
J1mk, whatever :)23:12
benbangertif you want to log from a separate thread23:13
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J1mI wouldn't want to have maintain that.23:13
J1mwhen zc.zk is reimimplemented on top of kazoo, I won't have to worry about it.23:13
benbangertnot supporting it rules out gevent entirely for web use23:13
J1mIt does not.23:13
benbangertsince the webapp server monkey patch up front23:13
J1mNo way.23:13
benbangertgunicorn + gevent will monkey patch as it loads23:13
J1mOK, thanks for the warning. :)23:14
benbangertonce it does, the logging done the way kazoo/zc.zk will break at some point23:14
J1mso basically, you're saying gunicorn is broken.23:14
benbangertif you ask it to use gevent, it monkey-patches with gevent23:14
benbangertso that your webapp works 'properly' with gevent23:14
J1mpywsgi doesn't require monkey patching.23:15
J1mThis is wildly more invasive that zope ever was.23:15
J1mwell, whatever.23:15
J1mIf you feel like maintaining this in kazoo, more power to you.  I wouldn't.23:16
benbangertpywsgi must not be spawning greenlets to handle requests then23:17
J1myes23:17
J1mno23:17
J1mIt does spawn greenlets.23:17
benbangertah, so it relies on you actually making sure to use gevent in your app23:17
J1mYou don't need monkey patching to use pywsgi.23:17
benbangertgunicorn takes the 'magic' approach by using monkey patching so your app "just works"23:17
J1mUh huh.23:18
benbangertcause odds are most of your libraries somewhere, are not using gevent in a large app23:18
benbangertso without the monkey-patching, it'll have crappy performance23:18
J1mimo, anyone who has a clue and uses an async network api also uses thread pools, unless all they're doing is moving bits between sockets.23:19
benbangertagreed23:19
J1mand if you do that, you don't need monkey patching.23:19
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J1mThese people in the gevent (and twisted) community who think you can do everything async and that everyone else has to conform are drinking too much of their own cool-ade.23:21
J1mThat's my (increasingly grumpy :) opinion. :)23:21
benbangertya know, I agree entirely, this code is vomit-worthy23:23
benbangert:)23:23
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J1mbenbangert, ftr zc.resumelb is a wsgi server built on gevent (and zc.zk) that doesn't require apps to be gevent aware and doesn't monkey patch.23:32
benbangertJ1m: yea, but I doubt apps with threads would 'just work'23:32
benbangertcause the second you make a lock object and use it across threads and a gevent thread, gevent will vomit23:32
J1mNo, because there's no monkey patching in zc.resumelb.  In fact, zc.resumelb provides thread pools, which is how we use it.23:33
J1mMy point is that you can have a gevent based wsgi server without monkey patching and without apps having to be gevent aware.23:34
J1mzc.resumelb doesn't use thread pools by default, though maybe it should.23:35
benbangerthow does it handle the socket without monkey patching it?23:36
benbangertoh, you use the gevent one23:36
J1mYes.23:36
benbangertso most libraries use a socket to talk to other services. if they all use blocking sockets, then your 100 greenlets are gonna go one at a time on the socket23:36
J1mYes, unless you use thread pools.23:37
J1mwhich is what we do.23:37
benbangertsure, your app will 'work' without the monkey patching, but it won't get a very big performance boost23:37
J1msure it will, cuz the the HTTP IO is still asyncronous.23:37
TresEquisjoin #breckprog23:38
J1mYou aren't creating a thread for each request.23:38
J1mTresEquis, you talkin to us?23:38
TresEquissorry, missed the '/'23:38
J1mheh23:39
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