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| deuterium | hia, i'm trying to find the cause of our zope instance's high cpu load.. almost 100% all the time. debugging help welcome! | 20:52 |
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| betabug | deuterium: are we supposed to guess? will you hand out prices? | 20:56 |
| deuterium | betabug: valid point.. i try to give more information about it | 20:57 |
| betabug | what version of zope you're using and what products you've installed would be a start :-) | 20:58 |
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| deuterium | betabug: a self-compiled zope 2.8.1 on debian lenny, installed products:Calendar, Hotfix_20060705, ImageGallery, Newsletter, | 22:01 |
| deuterium | FileAdministration, Hotfix_20070320, LocalImageSystem, Formulator, ImageGallery, LocalImageSystem, zms | 22:01 |
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| deuterium | python 2.4.4 | 22:06 |
| kosh | when you restart zope and do nothing does it have high cpu load? | 22:08 |
| kosh | does it matter what page you hit before it starts generate high cpu load? | 22:08 |
| deuterium | kosh: i try restarting this instance, moment please. iirc, the high load builds up very quickly though we have a neat iron below. | 22:09 |
| kosh | so you need a test box | 22:09 |
| deuterium | and a correction, it's python 2.3.6 | 22:10 |
| kosh | so you can hit pages and see what causes the load | 22:10 |
| kosh | also you know your software is ancient right? | 22:10 |
| kosh | current zope is 2.13.16 | 22:10 |
| kosh | so you are WAY WAY WAY behind | 22:10 |
| deuterium | kosh: i'm aware.. i didn't set up the box | 22:10 |
| deuterium | i don't see why i would want to compile zope and python from scatch myself.. it's not really maintenance friendly | 22:11 |
| deuterium | i've restarted zope 5 minutes ago, but i think it's still loading.. | 22:23 |
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| kosh | deuterium: it certainly does not look maintenance friendly | 23:27 |
| deuterium | kosh: agree | 23:29 |
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| kosh | I wonder why people setup such well designed systems in such horrible ways | 23:29 |
| deuterium | kosh: i'm suspecting a loop in a method or so which is then hit by a request, keeping more and more workers 100% busy till there's basically a DOS | 23:29 |
| kosh | it is like they try to make them suck on purpose | 23:29 |
| kosh | one guess I have seen before is I ran into an image system once that on every page request it loaded every image in order to decide which 10 to show | 23:30 |
| deuterium | kosh: i'm trying to follow http://old.zope.org/Members/4am/debugspinningzope to determine the method with the loop. good idea? | 23:30 |
| kosh | it was idiotic | 23:30 |
| kosh | better than nothing most likely, I have not tried that one before | 23:30 |
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| kosh | normally I would make a clone of the system and then test on that | 23:30 |
| kosh | but then again I have never had a system do this kind of thing | 23:31 |
| deuterium | kosh: hm.. google lists quite a few pages for "zope high load" etc. -> old ones, though | 23:31 |
| deuterium | doesn't seem to be _that_ uncommon | 23:31 |
| kosh | you can find those kinds of pages for any system though | 23:31 |
| kosh | people write bad code and then somehow still expect the system to work through it | 23:32 |
| kosh | I have helped people fix high load problems, not once has it even actually been zope, it was stupid queries every time | 23:32 |
| kosh | if you want to show 10 pictures but load 10K of them that is going to suck regardless of db | 23:32 |
| deuterium | the thing that astonishes me as a zope layman: isn't there some kind of max execution time for threads in zope or so? do loops really get cpu resources forever? | 23:32 |
| deuterium | kosh: sure, that's silly | 23:33 |
| deuterium | might be bad code here too.. a race condition in a method definitely is bad programming | 23:33 |
| kosh | recursion errors are found and stopped | 23:33 |
| deuterium | but i'm astonished it has such bad effects on the whole instance | 23:33 |
| kosh | race conditions should be insanely rare to happen given how zope is designed and what you are allowed to access | 23:33 |
| kosh | but nothing is really going to limit total cpu time | 23:34 |
| deuterium | ok.. sounds plausible | 23:34 |
| kosh | mostly because that would screw up a lot of apps | 23:34 |
| kosh | I have some things that will run for hours without problems and without crippling everything else | 23:34 |
| kosh | but it sounds like you have some common usage case that is causing high load | 23:34 |
| kosh | that is death on anything | 23:34 |
| deuterium | i suspect a problem in zms.. or maybe there's even some buggy custom code i don't know anything about | 23:34 |
| deuterium | please elaborate | 23:35 |
| kosh | if you had another system with a 5 second max limit but many people kept hitting the page you would still be crippled | 23:35 |
| kosh | it doesn't really change the problem to impose a time limit | 23:35 |
| deuterium | kosh: hm.. i think php does use a max execution time. not saying that php is a role-model. | 23:38 |
| kosh | it just means you run a few seconds longer before becoming hopelessly bogged down | 23:38 |
| kosh | the problem is that it doesn't solve the problem | 23:38 |
| kosh | but it stops a lot of things from working | 23:38 |
| kosh | zope is used for some larger systems where things can run for hours | 23:39 |
| kosh | now since 2.8 it also handles this stuff much better | 23:39 |
| deuterium | hm ok | 23:40 |
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