IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2013-03-12

[Arfrever]fdrake: Because it depends on other packages (e.g. zope.i18n), whose newest versions are alphas.00:06
* fdrake is not a fan of stability-indicators as a part of version numbers.00:07
fdrakeOk, so long as it's not because we've exhausted the budget for integers.00:07
[Arfrever]Incompatible changes are still allowed between e.g. zope.i18n 4.0.0a4 and zope.i18n
fdrakeYeah, well.  They're allowed between 4.0.0 and 5.0.0, too.  :-)00:12
fdrakeI'm being a little facetious; I do understand the desire to say "this isn't ready yet, and can change."/00:13
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[Arfrever]srichter: Do you plan to fix DeprecationWarnings and ResourceWarnings in other packages?04:21
[Arfrever](I do not suggest to make new releases only with such fixes.)04:23
srichterif I remember it ;-)04:24
srichterI am more interested in adding PyPy support as we are finalizing packages04:24
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fdrakesrichter: Do you know if there's a way to get github to send out checkin emails?15:59
fdrake(Directly to repo followers, instead of to a "canned" outside address.)16:00
srichterfdrake: no, I don't16:04
srichterfdrake: I would really like to turn off the default E-mail notifications and have a github event receiver send proper checkin E-mails16:04
fdrakeIt's a pity we can't migrate the email cannon to use github notifications, so our repository follows could be respected.16:04
srichterwith diffs, etc16:04
fdrakeWell, yeah, making the emails usable would be nice, too.  :-)16:05
fdrakeI think you've increased my mail storage in Gmail by 100MB in the last few days.  :-/16:06
srichterI am pretty much done with the conversions now16:07
srichtertoday's push was about moving all wineggbuilder tested packages to Github16:08
fdrakeI doubt there's anything left to convert.  :-)16:08
srichterfdrake: you would be surprised! :-)16:08
srichterthere are 600 directories in the SVN root16:08
srichterwe have 267 in GitHub now16:09
fdrakeHeh.  I know there are CVS repositories lurking in the annals of history; you can probably find another 600 dead, er, stable packages there as well.  :-)16:09
srichterlet's say 150 are junk, that still leaves 18016:09
fdrakeThe "otrta" VCS will be released any day now; we're just going to convert again.16:10
srichterI know, I cannot believe I am on my 3rd VCS already16:11
fdrake3rd?  Youngling.16:12
srichterthat's enough for me16:13
koshwait unti you get to 20+ over the course of your life16:13
fdrakeMore than enough.  Shifting VCSs is too expensive for recreational activity.16:14
koshyeah it does suck16:14
koshjust saying that more will come up and others will die off16:14
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koshand there will be more custom VCS systems for specific applications16:15
koshI can see a need for a good VCS system for large binary files that would be efficient16:15
koshlike doing a VCS that integrates with simulation software16:15
srichtermaybe it is time to get out of software dev :-)16:15
koshI already made that decision, I have one year left before I am a chemical and biological engineer16:16
koshbut I will still be doing software as part of the job (just custom simulations to get work done)16:16
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fdrakeI'm still waiting for a really good VCS for code.  We have tolerable VCSs, but we switched anyway.16:18
fdrake(I hear it's what the kool kats do.)16:18
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betabugI'm pretty happy with darcs17:15
betabugbut I'm using "whatever" on other people's projects17:16
mgedminI was always uncomfortable with lack of proper history (i.e. how did _my_ tree look at this date?) in darcs17:17
betabughmm, never bothered me17:22
betabugwe're just tagging at milestones and that's it17:22
betabugOTOH there are so many things that just work so well and that are a pain with other VCS's17:23
betabugbut I'm way beyond the point where I'm willing to tell other people what to use (except in my own projects, where I'm responsible)17:23
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fdrakesrichter: Is the current release procedure for ZF projects documented?17:46
srichterfdrake: no17:48
srichterfdrake: we have no good place for documentation :-(17:49
srichterfdrake: I just use zest.releaser17:49
mgedminI recommend with zest.releaser17:49
fdrakeHeh.  I figured the answer would be something like that.17:50
fdrakeI'm not really sure why fell out of favor.17:51
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srichterfdrake: me neither, but I think it was hacked too much17:52
fdrakeAh, could be.17:53
fdrakeNow it's just ignored, even though it's still where many things live.17:53
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fdrake(TAL/TALES/METAL specs are still useful.)17:54
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mgedminthese ought to be proper Sphinx-based documents maintained in git and published at readthedocs.org17:54
fdrakeFTR, I *hate* defining the process by software implementation.17:54
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fdrakemgedmin: I wouldn't object.  :-)17:55
fdrakeMaybe I'll look at zest.releaser the afternoon.17:55
mgedminI believe it more or less follows*checkout*/Sandbox/philikon/foundation/releasing-software.txt17:56
mgedminI'm not sure it checks long_description for ReST errors17:57
mgedminalso, there was this version number PEP that made zest.releaser switch from versions like 1.2.3dev to versions like 1.2.3.dev017:58
mgedminPEP-386 perhaps17:58
mgedminwe need a working wiki :(17:58
fdrakemgedmin: That we do.17:59
fdrakeEspecially for those of us who just pop in from time to time these days.18:00
fdrakeThe state of wikis, though, is pretty egregious.18:00
mgedminplus duplicate auth etc18:01
mgedminreadthedocs + 'edit this file on github' in the sidebar + github's ACE editor and RST previewing features = we almost have a wiki, if we automate sphinxification somehow18:02
fdrakeOk, time for a sandwich....18:03
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fdrakesrichter: I'm making a zope.publisher 4.0.0a4, so we'll see if my git-fu is strong enough.19:26
srichterfdrake: ;-)19:29
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srichtereasy_install zest.releaser19:29
srichtercd /path/zope.publisher19:29
srichterthat should be it! :-)19:29
fdrakesrichter: The zest.releaser docs didn't leave me confident; maybe after playing with it on a test repo, but....19:30
fdrakeMaybe once I've some confidence I know what's *supposed* to happen!19:31
fdrakeOk, found how to tell if my tag made it.19:31
srichterfdrake: I made about 300 releases int he last couple of week with zest.releaser ;-)19:32
srichterwell, maybe 100, since my conversions did not do a release19:33
fdrakeGoody.  I still need to play with something like that.19:33
fdrakeAnything that says it updates text for me requires careful play.19:33
fdrakeFor now, I want a release.19:33
srichterzest.releaser is nice at telling you the changes before it commits19:34
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fdrakeRest assured, after dealing with this once, I'll probably never do it manually again.19:38
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fdrakesrichter: Since there wasn't a "dev" marker in the version number, I'm presuming we're not continuing with that silliness.19:44
fdrakeAnyway, I think I'm done.19:44
srichterfdrake: there should have been .dev0 at the end19:49
srichterin the trunk19:49
srichterbut it does not really matter19:49
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fdrakeHmm.  It wasn't there before.  So... somebody else's problem.19:50
fdrakeI'd rather see us use version="0" for non-versions.19:51
fdrake(Or omit it completely, if distutils allows that.)19:51
srichterfdrake: but that's a problem with zest.releaser, since it then does not know which version number to suggest ;-) I have fixed the version="0" everywhere. He he.19:57
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fdrakeSounded to me like zest.releaser took the version number (possibly on the command line).20:07
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fdrakesrichter: Do you remember why zope.publisher needs >= 4.0.0a1 ?20:45
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fdrakegit's such a blight.20:54
srichterfdrake: only for Py3 support20:55
srichterfdrake: I would not have put that requirement into the file20:55
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fdrakeI guess I can remove it from the installed egg to test if I can use zope.publisher 4.0.0a4 for my app.  :-(20:56
srichtereek, feel free to do another release without the requirement20:57
srichterfdrake: I wonder whether it would be better in your case to do another 3.x release20:57
fdrakeYeah, playing with that idea now.20:57
fdrakeSooo.... git.21:02
fdrakeIs the right workflow for this: checkout branch, cherry-pick the patch, push, then tag / release from the branch?21:02
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* fdrake hopes someone is writing "git: The Good Parts".21:10
J1mI think the postal service is issuing a stamp21:11
fdrakeWhich means the octocat has been dead for at least 5 years.  Yay!21:12
fdrakeCan we move back to a real VCS now?21:12
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J1mYou need you some code review luv21:13
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fdrakeJ1m: Yeah... I tried submitting a pull request for zc.recipe.deployment, but you've been too busy to get to it.  :-)21:16
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J1mfdrake, that wasn't a pull request. You committed to svn trunk.21:18
fdrakeYeah, but you wanted to review, so I haven't made a release.  :-)21:19
fdrakeI probably should have used a branch.21:19
J1mYou should have converted to github and made a pull request ;)21:19
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* fdrake runs screaming.21:20
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* fdrake would still like a response to his workflow question:21:46
fdrakeIs the right workflow for this: checkout branch, cherry-pick the patch, push, then tag / release from the branch?21:46
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fdrakesrichter: ^^21:54
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fdrakePython packaging deserves a special place in hell22:22
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fdrakeManaged zope.publisher-3.13.2 using zest.releaser; nice!22:35
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