IRC log of #zope for Friday, 2013-04-05

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andkoreis there any way to do the equivalent of <?php echo $var ?>10:43
andkorewith TAL*10:44
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agroszerandkore, you will probably want view/?var10:57
andkoreagroszer: I like the idea that TAL is multi-language, but its syntax is a little odd10:59
agroszerwell it is10:59
agroszerjust in case10:59
andkorejust seems odd to have stuff embedded in the html11:00
andkorelike <p tal= ... or whatever it is11:00
agroszerdon't start that flame, yeah?11:00
andkoreI'm not trying to flame11:01
agroszerevery framework has it's pros and cons and those depend on it's users too11:02
andkoreI'm actually using laravel11:02
andkoreI'm just trying to decide which template engine to use11:02
andkoreI'm in the PHP owrld11:03
agroszerwell I'm not into PHP11:03
andkoreI'm just using it because I'm poor and I want to be able to deploy to shitty servers that don't support other languages11:04
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andkoreanyway, thanks for the info11:04
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agroszerfor low budget hosting there's like digitalocean11:04
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regebroMore crazy ideas: FoundationDB backend for ZODB. :-)12:22
regebroTo compliment the JSON-client idea.  :-)12:23
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regebroagroszer: Will it get the acid transactions on top of mongo?  Because then I guess that's good enough. :-)13:04
agroszerand it's not ZODB if you look closer13:04
regebroagroszer: Ah. OK, so then irrelevant. :-)13:04
agroszerirrelevant... ehhh13:05
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MatthewWilkesthat monopersist thing is……………………… odd15:22
MatthewWilkesIt looks so safe and familiar15:23
RichyBregebro: FoundationDB would not be a bad idea in theory AIUI, both it and ZODB target the same feature set and consistency+isolation guarantees.15:27
RichyBThough FoundationDB's website claims that they actually target serialisable isolation, which is better than the repeatable-read isolation that ZODB provides.15:28
RichyB(By "better" in that sentence I meant "easier to program in, harder to implement")15:29
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MatthewWilkesRichyB: Just because you're the only person I know who has ever had a transaction bug caused by repeatable read…16:32
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RichyBMatthewWilkes: no, the transaction bug wasn't caused by repeatable read; that's documented behaviour! The bug was caused by my failure to notice the note in the documentation. ;)16:44
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regebroRichyB: The question is if you can get a benefit from FoundationDB in shardable writes etc.18:06
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RichyBregebro: eh, you can play the shardable-writes game all day; there are various violent ways to get zope apps to scale.18:25
RichyBWhat I find more interesting is the idea of getting *resilience* out of FoundationDB.18:26
RichyBI mean lower-chance-of-data-loss by having many copies of data on many machines+disks, not higher availability.18:27
RichyBIt makes me sad that you kind of need an expensive multi-site synchronously-replicated SAN in order to proof your data against, say, a carbomb blowing up next to your DC. ☺18:28
* RichyB might be paranoid. >_>18:30
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regebroRichyB: well, recilient performance is the interesting bit. Performance with no reliability might be fun but not helpful. :-)18:36
RichyBI think that they're both interesting vertexes of a gigantic polyhedron of desired features. ☺18:37
RichyBLike, takes something like travis-ci. They want a reliable DB to save results to at the end of every build… but they don't actually need any data reliability *during* the builds themselves.18:38
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regebroReplication is in any case useful, but I think perhaps not as hard as getting write performance.18:38
RichyBIf a machine dies in some way during a unit-test or software compilation run and it loses all the files, it doesn't matter - you just blow it all away re-start the build again from scratch.18:39
RichyBResult of that is, I'd be happy to use tmpfs or some other RAM/swap backed filesystem for backing the working area for a CI server.18:40
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