IRC log of #zope for Wednesday, 2013-05-29

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phimicdoes zope intereprete a webdav GET on 8091 different than a GET on default http port 8081?13:09
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mgedminagroszer, winbot question13:59
mgedmindo you have setuptools installed into the system pythons?13:59
mgedminas in the real setuptools, rather than distribute?13:59
agroszerdepends on the python folder13:59
agroszerthere's *_clean which never have setuptools13:59
agroszerbut package tests mostly run with setuptools14:00
mgedminwould it be hard to switch to distribute?14:00
agroszerwhere setuptools is setuptools14:00
mgedminbecause breaks everything :-)14:00
mgedminwe can wait for that issue to be resolved, or we can install distribute ourselves, since buildout is unable to do so14:01
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agroszersetuptools vs distribute s*cks14:01
agroszerI guess switching to distribute isn't hard14:02
mgedminyeah, python packaging14:03
mgedminhpk42 on twitter suggested a python packaging conference14:04
mgedminmcdonc dubbed it #sadconf :-)14:04
mgedmineventually setuptools 0.7 will be out, and distribute will die14:04
mgedmin(and perhaps distlib will replace setuptools in the far far future, in a galaxy far far away)14:04
agroszermy basic problem is that e.g. distribute guys ignore the winbot tests14:05
agroszerwhich never ever passed14:05
agroszeranyway, which way do we want to go?14:07
mgedmininstalling distribute (instead of setuptools) into the pythons is the quickest fix, IMHO14:08
agroszerokay... soon14:10
agroszermgedmin, can I disconnect you from winbot?14:13
agroszeror logoff14:13
mgedminoh, am I connected again? sorry14:15
mgedminI keep forgetting that closing rdesktop doesn't log me off14:16
agroszerplease logoff14:16
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agroszerwinbot is low on RAM and one shell takes quite a lot of RAM14:16
mgedminis it possible to enable auto-logoff after a timeout?14:17
agroszerouch setuptools supports 64bit?14:19
agroszerokay, mgedmin 25_32, 26_32, 26_64, 27_32, 27_64 have now distribute 0.6.4414:27
agroszerwhere I think package tests are run with 26_3214:27
betabughey agroszer! 45km/h wind this morning, with 75km/h wind gusts14:36
betabugsouth wind, so it's quite warm too14:38
mgedminwhee, travis job for ZODB runs 22 test from a test suite that has more than a thousand14:51
mgedminlooks like zope-testrunner quits after running the first test14:51
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mgedminI think you can break zope.testrunner's -j mode if you do os.chdir() in a test16:39
mgedminif that's true, I'll be laughing all the way to the madhouse16:40
fdrakemgedmin: You can break just about anything relying on process state with os.chdir().  That's a mighty hammer.16:41
benjiyep; when parallelizing tests the pernicious influence of global state becomes very apparent16:44
benjiI recently spent weeks (or maybe months) squeezing global state dependencies out of a very large test suite.16:45
fdrakebenji: Yeah; we're still nailing crap in a certain large test suite you may be familiar with.  :-)16:48
benjiheh :)16:48
fdrakeThe zope.testrunner subprocess communication problem looks like it isn't all that hard to fix, though.16:49
mgedminI'm trying to do that right now :)16:50
fdrakemgedmin: Yay!16:50
fdrakeAnother nice tool would be something that hooks os.chdir and test setup/teardown, and reports what test failed to restore state appropriately.16:51
mgedminoh yes16:52
mgedminI had a pluggable architecture for state verifiers16:52
mgedminI miss it16:52
fdrakeBut that's pretty heavy for the general case of tests that don't touch things like os.chdir.16:52
mgedminthat's why I think the test suite should define what things to check16:52
mgedmine.g. an uncommitted zope transaction can wreak havoc on other tests16:52
fdrakeI'm more likely to add things like that for functional tests, where everything is heavy anyway.  :-/16:52
fdrakemgedmin: Yeah; I've got checks that no interaction is left behind.16:53
mgedminif layers had pluggable testSetUp/testTearDown hooks, this could be done per-layer16:53
fdrakeThat caught a *lot* of junk.16:53
* mgedmin wonders if hasn't been fixed in trunk yet16:53
_mup_Bug #1026576: Count test import errors as errors <zope.testrunner:New> <>16:53
fdrakemgedmin: Like testSetUp and testTearDown?16:55
mgedminsorry, lost context16:56
mgedminwhat is like testSetUp?16:56
mgedminwait, oh, cool!  it's been implemented!16:57
mgedminI never noticed16:57
fdrakeThose are methods on the layer object.  :-)16:57
fdrakeTime machines are wunnerful!16:57
mgedminwhat worries me a bit is that skips all the layers other than the first, but doesn't emit *** subprocess communication error *** messages17:00
mgedminbut one thing at a time17:01
fdrakePerhaps travis isn't showing stderr?17:02
fdrakeDunno; don't normally deal with travis myself.17:02
mgedminno; "could not communicate with subprocess" is written to stdout17:03
fdrakeWell, dang.17:03
_mup_Bug #98250 was filed: Some doctests can't be run twice <bug> <bugday20100424> <core> <zope.testing:Won't Fix> <zope.testrunner:New> <Zope 3:Won't Fix> <Zope 3 3.4:Won't Fix> <>17:05
mgedminoh, _mup_, it wasn't _filed_, it was _marked as a duplicate_17:07
mgedminthere's a difference17:07
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mgedminI fixed the subprocess communication error (yay) and now zope-testrunner does the same thing on my laptop that it did on that travis job: nothing!17:30
mgedminoh, of course, --test-path is relative, so it doesn't find any tests17:31
mgedminthis is bad17:32
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fdrakemgedmin: Doesn't the first layer run in the manager process?17:44
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fdrakeChanging it so the manager only dispatches seems reasonable, and takes care of this problem for both communications and test-path.17:45
fdrakeWe'd also win in that -j > 1 could have more win.17:45
mgedminokay, now zope-testrunner -j99 reports errors when the subprocess is unable to find the right layers17:49
mgedminno more silent failure17:49
mgedminnow all I need to do is capture the original os.getcwd() and pass it to subprocess.Popen()17:49
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benjiI'm not sure changing the directory back to the original for each subprocess is the right route.  Making global state changes in any test (whether across layer boundries or not) seems like a bug and papering over it with the test runner doesn't seem like the right approach.17:52
mgedminit's what zc.recipe.testrunner does17:53
fdrakeI think there are two distinct problems:17:53
fdrake1. The runner should not be subject to problems with the tests themselves, as much as possible.17:54
fdrake2. Some tests don't clean up correctly, and should reported & fixed.17:54
fdrakemgedmin is dealing with 1.17:54
fdrakeThe second needs to be handled in a more fine-grained approach, and probably requires a number of specific solutions for different kinds of process-global state.17:56
mgedminand 3. Errors should never pass silently17:56
mgedmintestrunner has a bunch of sanity checks17:56
mgedminlike "test left threads behind" etc.17:56
mgedmin"test changed os.getcwd()" is maybe a useful check17:56
benjiah! that makes sense17:57
mgedminbut what about things like doing a os.chdir(some_temp_dir) in a layer setUp?17:57
fdrakeRight.  That should probably end up allowing additional checks to be plugged in.17:57
mgedminI had a branch in svn for pluggable checks17:59
mgedminI never merged it to trunk because doctests aaargh17:59
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mgedminhm, no, I didn't18:00
mgedmin is something completely different (and useless, since I forgot to svn add one file)18:00
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mgedminno, I did!  6 years ago!18:00
fdrakemgedmin: Luckily, the entire zuniverse has been refactored since then.  :-)18:01
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mgedminlong day18:03
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mgedminpushed a branch with fixes for and the related "silently skips ALL THE LAYERS but one" issue I haven' t bothered filing18:17
mgedminI'd merge to trunk, but the changes aren't unit-tested18:18
mgedmindoes anybody here enjoy writing zope.testrunner-style doctests? ;)18:18
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* mgedmin still hopes that somebody-not-him will one day walk up to zope testrunner, say "this is bull*", and rewrite it to use unittest assertions18:28
mgedminwell, maybe not all of the tests18:28
mgedmindoctests seem to work well as integration tests18:29
mgedmin(aka system tests, aka functional tests)18:29
fdrakedoctests work well for a lot, if we restrain ourselves from loading up each test file with too many things.18:30
fdrakeWe've definitely trained ourselves to ignore other tools, though.18:30
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mgedminI'll try to write some kind of test18:40
* fdrake appreciates mgedmin's dedication.18:40
* fdrake also believes mgedmin is a masochist.18:41
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