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| puittenbroek | Hi! download.zope.org seems down ? | 11:57 |
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| tisto | download.zope.org seems to be down. | 12:27 |
| tisto | does anybody know who can be contacted about this? | 12:34 |
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| mgedmin | try the mailing list maybe? | 14:28 |
| brunni | several subdomains of zope.org are down: mail,old,docs. the ips point to a german hoster: Hetzner. Any infos ? | 14:28 |
| brunni | I am trying to get zope 2.13.20 running. "ZServer HTTP server started" is logged several times and then zdaemon gives up. No info in the logs. Also an exception about start_timeout but fixing this in zdctl.py does not make a difference | 14:31 |
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| brunni | turning on debugging and log level DEBUG does not help either | 14:32 |
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| brunni | Maybe this is related to the server outage ? easy_install tries to reach old.zope.org at some point.... | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | _starting up_ a zope server should not require a working internet connection | 14:33 |
| brunni | mgedmin | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | can you try zopectl fg? (or whatever the spelling is) | 14:34 |
| brunni | mgedmin: but installing may. easy_install requests www.zope.org/Products/ZODB which redirects to old.zope.org. I will try fg | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | oh, installing, absolutely | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | although I believe these days you can pip install Zope and get everything off PyPI | 14:35 |
| mgedmin | (with www.zope.org links used merely as fallbacks) | 14:35 |
| brunni | ahhh | 14:35 |
| brunni | from zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate import _error_start, PTRuntimeError | 14:35 |
| brunni | ImportError: cannot import name _error_start | 14:35 |
| mgedmin | that sounds familiar :/ | 14:35 |
| brunni | mgedmin | 14:36 |
| brunni | mgedmin: you mean virtualenv and then ./bin/pip install Zope2 ? | 14:36 |
| myroslav | mgedmin: a lot of Plone buildouts are referring to versions files similar to http://download.zope.org/zopetoolkit/index/1.0.8/zopeapp-versions.cfg. And unless these are cached, buildouts fail... | 14:37 |
| mgedmin | well, personally, I consider Zope 2 to be a thing you should run away from as fast as possible, because it's insanely complicated to maintain | 14:37 |
| mgedmin | but it's an impolitic thing to say in #zope | 14:37 |
| * mgedmin is searching for a bug report about _error_start | 14:37 | |
| brunni | mgedmin: Are you suggesting plone ? | 14:37 |
| myroslav | mgedmin: Here is workaround for the problem: http://devblog.4teamwork.ch/blog/2013/06/06/download-dot-zope-dot-org-is-down-how-to-fix-buildout/ | 14:38 |
| mgedmin | found it: https://github.com/zopefoundation/zope.pagetemplate/issues/1 | 14:38 |
| mgedmin | okay, I take it back: pip install Zope isn't likely to work | 14:38 |
| mgedmin | you need to pin some package versions to be compatible with Zope 2 | 14:39 |
| mgedmin | there's a KGS, apparently, on download.zope.org, which is down :( | 14:39 |
| mgedmin | brunni, Plone is built on top of Zope 2, so the same caveats apply | 14:39 |
| mgedmin | although I believe the Plone people have created fancy wrappers that hide some of the sharp edges | 14:39 |
| brunni | mgedmin | 14:39 |
| mgedmin | you keep saying my name | 14:40 |
| brunni | mgedmin: sorry, my irc client... zope2 is not too complicated for me but it may get when it will get even less maintained. i would also run away from it if I could | 14:40 |
| mgedmin | https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Zope2#installation | 14:42 |
| brunni | mgedmin: will easy_install Zope2 install the correct version of zope.pagetemplate when the zope subdomains are working again or is this problem not relatted ? | 14:42 |
| mgedmin | "Follow the instructions in doc/INSTALL.rst to install Zope." | 14:42 |
| mgedmin | oh this is sooo useful on the PyPI page | 14:42 |
| mgedmin | *headdesk* | 14:42 |
| * mgedmin tries pip install Zope2 in a virtualenv | 14:43 | |
| mgedmin | wow pypi is fast nowadays | 14:44 |
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| * brunni thinks assuming that the zope subdomains will ever work again may not be appropriate | 14:45 | |
| mgedmin | oh, I'm sure they will | 14:45 |
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| brunni | mgedmin: I would have used bootstrap.py and buildout to install but the tar.gz file for 2.13.20 is missing and the zip file does not contain bootstrap.py. everything seems to be falling apart... | 14:48 |
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| mgedmin | you can get bootstrap.py from http://downloads.buildout.org/1/bootstrap.py | 14:49 |
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| * brunni tries pip install Zope2 too | 14:50 | |
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| mgedmin | yup, ImportError: cannot import name _error_start | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | I can pip install zope.pagetemplate==4.0.0 | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | and then I get a different ImportError: No module named untrustedpython | 14:57 |
| brunni | mgedmin: and you think the wrong versions are caused by *.zope.org being down ? | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | no | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | wrong versions are caused by new releases being made to PyPI | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | that drop backwards compatibility | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | (intentionally or unintentionally) | 14:58 |
| brunni | mgedmin: any idea how to install zope2 then ? | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | trial and error | 15:00 |
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| brunni | mgedmin: I don't understand this. Zope 2.12.3 has a versions.cfg. Has this been abandonned in 2.13.x ? | 15:03 |
| mgedmin | oh, cool | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | (a) I've no idea; I stopped using zope 2 a long time ago | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | (b) if you've got a versions.cfg, use it! | 15:04 |
| MatthewWilkes | brunni: I use http://download.zope.org/Zope2/index/2.13.19/versions.cfg in most projects, so I'd say no | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | I'm only participating in this conversation because I'm somewhat familiar with the related technologies, and all the genuine Zope 2 experts appear to be sleeping | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | probably the smartest thing to do would be to download the zope 2 tarball from pypi and look for doc/INSTALL.txt | 15:05 |
| brunni | mgedmin | 15:05 |
| brunni | mgedmin: that is the first thing I tried. the tarball with bootstrap.py and versions.cfg is missing. easy_install and pip do not work... | 15:06 |
| brunni | MatthewWilkes: thanks for the link. maybe I can use it when download.zope.org is up again | 15:07 |
| mgedmin | okay, doc/INSTALL.rst says | 15:08 |
| MatthewWilkes | brunni: Indeed | 15:08 |
| mgedmin | "$ bin/easy_install -i http://download.zope.org/Zope2/index/<Zope version> Zope2" | 15:08 |
| mgedmin | that would pin the right package versions | 15:08 |
| mgedmin | but it won't work if download.zope.org is down | 15:08 |
| brunni | mgedmin: ahhh... | 15:08 |
| MatthewWilkes | brunni: Is there a particular versions.cfg you need? I might have it cached | 15:09 |
| mgedmin | would the google cache have a copy of http://download.zope.org/Zope2/index/<Zope version>/versions.cfg ? | 15:09 |
| brunni | MatthewWilkes: 2.13.20 | 15:09 |
| brunni | got it... | 15:11 |
| MatthewWilkes | I don't have a cache of it, so that's lucky! | 15:11 |
| mgedmin | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:download.zope.org/Zope2/index/2.13.20/versions.cfg | 15:13 |
| mgedmin | you will also need ztk-versions.cfg for ztk 1.0.8 | 15:13 |
| mgedmin | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:download.zope.org/zopetoolkit/index/1.0.8/ztk-versions.cfg | 15:13 |
| mgedmin | good luck | 15:14 |
| brunni | mgedmin: I will have to find out what to do with those files first :-) | 15:14 |
| mgedmin | strip any html etc. make sure they're plain-text | 15:14 |
| mgedmin | replace the extends = http://download.zope.org/.../ztk-versions.cfg with just extends = ztk-versions.cfg | 15:14 |
| mgedmin | then, um... you need a buildout.cfg | 15:15 |
| mgedmin | something like https://dpaste.de/pvew9/ might work | 15:15 |
| mgedmin | so, three files: versions.cfg, ztk-versions.cfg, buildout.cfg | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | and a bootstrap.py from http://downloads.buildout.org/2/bootstrap.py | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | in a new empty directory | 15:16 |
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| mgedmin | then run python2.7 bootstrap.py | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | and bin/buildout | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | and that should produce a bin/mkzopeinstance | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | that you can use to create a new zope insntanc | 15:16 |
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| brunni | mgedmin: thank you very much for your help. If this does not work I will wait for download.zope.org and try easy_install -i again | 15:20 |
| brunni | Interesting. www.buildout.org is on the same servers as the zope subdomains and therefore also down | 15:23 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 15:24 |
| mgedmin | here's bootstrap.py: http://dpaste.de/vjrW3/ | 15:24 |
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| myroslav | mgedmin: http://downloads.buildout.org/1/bootstrap.py is accessible... | 15:32 |
| myroslav | brunni: ^^ | 15:32 |
| brunni | myroslav: thnx | 15:35 |
| brunni | mgedmin: ./bin/mkzopeinstance throws ImportError: No module named Zope2. I will try easy_install when things are back normal :-) | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | so, my buildout.cfg was wrong | 15:42 |
| mgedmin | where I said Zope it should've said Zope2 | 15:42 |
| brunni | mgedmin: I already corrected that | 15:42 |
| mgedmin | in both places? | 15:42 |
| mgedmin | hm | 15:42 |
| brunni | mgedmin: forget it. I would prefer easy_install anyway as the other way to install does not work out of the box any more | 15:44 |
| brunni | thnx to all for helping! Good to know that there are still people around that can help ;-) Bye! | 15:46 |
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| mgedmin | download.zope.org is back! | 16:43 |
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| jakke | Hi guys, looking for someone who's willing to brainstorm with me | 17:32 |
| jakke | I'm working on z3c.schem2json now, and that works great | 17:32 |
| jakke | the problem is, I have references from 2 schema objects to each other | 17:33 |
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| jakke | so Class A has an attribute the references class B, and Class B has an attribute that references Class A | 17:33 |
| jakke | when encoding according to the schema, it will keep on looping from an A-object into a B-object and back into an A-object | 17:34 |
| jakke | My original attempt to create an object-to-dict serializer used an 'ignore interfaces' option, to prevent this kind of loops | 17:35 |
| jakke | is that the way to go, or are there better options? | 17:35 |
| supton | jakke: what kind of field? | 17:37 |
| jakke | a zope.schema object field | 17:38 |
| supton | my previous approach was to have a subclass of object to differentiate between containement and mere reference. | 17:38 |
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| supton | subclass of schema.Object I mean | 17:38 |
| jakke | hmm, get the idea | 17:39 |
| jakke | there has been made an extension to follow the reference from the one to the other, don't remember if it was done that way | 17:40 |
| supton | jakke: or, if you want something more general, not requiring users of your package to create a custom field type, then use tagged values on the interface object to mark | 17:40 |
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| jakke | supton: sounds like an idea, marker interface or something alike when it's a reference :) | 17:41 |
| jakke | and make schema2json aware of the IIgnore interface or whatever | 17:42 |
| supton | jakke: I suppose a marker interface on the individual field is possible | 17:42 |
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| jakke | think so, I'll look into it | 17:42 |
| jakke | supton: thx for the idea! | 17:42 |
| supton | jakke: this kind of problem isn't merely constrained to serialization, the same issues exist with validation… e.g. if you use zope.schema.fieldproperty.FieldProperty on a schema.object field | 17:42 |
| jakke | we have an extension, named FetchableProperty | 17:43 |
| supton | so there are times when you do not want to follow the reference for validation, serialization, etc | 17:43 |
| jakke | but I didn't do the implementation | 17:43 |
| jakke | and it's a bit too long, but I should indeed check, because there is no validation recursion either! | 17:43 |
| jakke | right, it's a subclass of zope.schema.object | 17:48 |
| jakke | with it's own _validate, cutting out the fetchable_properties | 17:48 |
| jakke | hard one to implement into a generic schema2json | 17:49 |
| jakke | marker interface looks like a better solution then | 17:49 |
| jakke | supton: so you were right :) | 17:49 |
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| jakke | supton: It looks to me that adding an "IReference" interface, or whatever is in the name, is best done in zope.schema itself, not in z3c.schema2json | 17:58 |
| jakke | don't you think? | 17:58 |
| jakke | makes it usable for the referencing problem while validating as well | 17:59 |
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| supton | jakke: not sure | 18:02 |
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| jakke | what would be against adding an IReference interface in zope.schema? | 18:04 |
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| supton | well, there may be other idioms folks have used for this, I am not sure | 18:07 |
| jakke | right | 18:08 |
| jakke | I'll give it a shot with an interface in schema2json then, and talk it through with Gotcha | 18:09 |
| supton | maybe email zope or zope-dev mailing list | 18:09 |
| jakke | even better idea :D | 18:09 |
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