IRC log of #zope for Thursday, 2013-06-06

*** J1m has quit IRC00:12
*** Pumukel has quit IRC00:16
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away00:22
*** thetet has joined #zope00:29
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele00:36
*** fdrake has quit IRC00:38
*** tiwula has quit IRC00:41
*** tiwula has joined #zope00:47
*** evilbungle has quit IRC00:50
*** mindthief414 has quit IRC00:52
*** Arfrever has quit IRC00:57
*** nueces has quit IRC01:15
*** Arfrever has joined #zope01:16
*** mwilkes|away is now known as MatthewWilkes01:31
*** MrTango has quit IRC01:43
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away01:43
*** MrTango has joined #zope01:48
*** supton has quit IRC01:48
*** MrTango has quit IRC01:53
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele01:54
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away01:59
*** kosh has joined #zope02:07
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele02:16
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away02:17
*** Spanktar has quit IRC02:39
*** MatthewWilkes is now known as mwilkes|away02:44
*** dayne has quit IRC02:50
*** thetet has quit IRC03:43
*** thetet has joined #zope04:03
*** tiwula has quit IRC04:12
*** RichyB has quit IRC04:13
*** RichyB has joined #zope04:16
*** tiwula has joined #zope04:30
*** tiwula has quit IRC04:33
*** mr_jolly has quit IRC04:56
*** mr_jolly has joined #zope05:00
*** mr_jolly has quit IRC05:03
*** thetet has quit IRC05:07
*** mindthief414 has joined #zope06:38
*** alecm has quit IRC06:48
*** alecm has joined #zope06:51
*** alecm has joined #zope06:51
*** kosh has quit IRC06:56
*** harrow` is now known as harrow07:17
*** mr_jolly has joined #zope07:21
*** alecm has quit IRC07:36
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele07:36
*** alecm has joined #zope07:50
*** alecm has joined #zope07:50
*** alecm has quit IRC07:57
*** alecm has joined #zope08:06
*** alecm has quit IRC08:24
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away08:32
*** zagy has joined #zope08:55
*** alecm has joined #zope08:58
*** alecm has joined #zope08:58
*** mindthief414 has quit IRC09:19
*** agroszer has joined #zope09:53
*** __mac__ has joined #zope09:59
*** tmog has joined #zope10:19
*** avoinea has joined #zope10:36
*** maurits has joined #zope10:45
*** MrTango has joined #zope10:56
*** sunew has joined #zope10:56
*** goschtl has joined #zope10:59
*** MrTango has quit IRC11:12
*** giacomos has joined #zope11:16
*** eperez has joined #zope11:18
*** sunew has quit IRC11:19
*** MrTango has joined #zope11:19
*** zagy has quit IRC11:20
*** emidal has joined #zope11:53
*** puittenbroek has joined #zope11:57
puittenbroekHi! seems down ?11:57
*** mr_jolly has joined #zope11:57
*** mwilkes|away is now known as MatthewWilkes12:10
*** sylvain has joined #zope12:12
*** goschtl_ has joined #zope12:21
*** m8 has joined #zope12:23
*** goschtl has quit IRC12:24
*** goschtl_ is now known as goschtl12:24
*** tisto has joined #zope12:26 seems to be down.12:27
tistodoes anybody know who can be contacted about this?12:34
*** fredvd has joined #zope12:37
*** alecm has quit IRC12:47
*** fredvd has quit IRC12:54
*** fredvd has joined #zope12:58
*** zagy has joined #zope13:00
*** fred_ has joined #zope13:00
*** fred_ is now known as Guest3518813:00
*** sylvain has left #zope13:01
*** fredvd has quit IRC13:03
*** tmog has quit IRC13:18
*** Guest35188 is now known as fredvd13:22
*** motto has joined #zope13:32
*** tmog has joined #zope13:33
*** m8 has quit IRC13:34
*** KageSenshi has quit IRC13:39
*** tisto is now known as tisto|away13:44
*** esteele|away has quit IRC13:45
*** esteele|away has joined #zope13:47
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele13:47
*** polysix_ has quit IRC13:55
*** motto has quit IRC13:56
*** polysix has joined #zope13:57
*** myroslav has joined #zope14:01
*** m8 has joined #zope14:10
*** m8 has quit IRC14:14
*** nueces has joined #zope14:16
*** mgedmin has quit IRC14:19
*** mgedmin has joined #zope14:19
*** m8 has joined #zope14:20
*** brunni has joined #zope14:27
*** m8 has quit IRC14:28
mgedmintry the mailing list maybe?14:28
brunniseveral subdomains of are down: mail,old,docs. the ips point to a german hoster: Hetzner. Any infos ?14:28
brunniI am trying to get zope 2.13.20 running. "ZServer HTTP server started" is logged several times and then zdaemon gives up. No info in the logs. Also an exception about start_timeout but fixing this in does not make a difference14:31
*** m8 has joined #zope14:31
brunniturning on debugging and log level DEBUG does not help either14:32
*** kroman0 has joined #zope14:32
brunniMaybe this is related to the server outage ? easy_install tries to reach at some point....14:32
mgedmin_starting up_ a zope server should not require a working internet connection14:33
mgedmincan you try zopectl fg?  (or whatever the spelling is)14:34
brunnimgedmin: but installing may. easy_install requests which redirects to I will try fg14:34
mgedminoh, installing, absolutely14:34
mgedminalthough I believe these days you can pip install Zope and get everything off PyPI14:35
mgedmin(with links used merely as fallbacks)14:35
brunni    from zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate import _error_start, PTRuntimeError14:35
brunniImportError: cannot import name _error_start14:35
mgedminthat sounds familiar :/14:35
brunnimgedmin: you mean virtualenv and then ./bin/pip install Zope2 ?14:36
myroslavmgedmin: a lot of Plone buildouts are referring to versions files similar to And unless these are cached, buildouts fail...14:37
mgedminwell, personally, I consider Zope 2 to be a thing you should run away from as fast as possible, because it's insanely complicated to maintain14:37
mgedminbut it's an impolitic thing to say in #zope14:37
* mgedmin is searching for a bug report about _error_start14:37
brunnimgedmin: Are you suggesting plone ?14:37
myroslavmgedmin: Here is workaround for the problem:
mgedminfound it:
mgedminokay, I take it back: pip install Zope isn't likely to work14:38
mgedminyou need to pin some package versions to be compatible with Zope 214:39
mgedminthere's a KGS, apparently, on, which is down :(14:39
mgedminbrunni, Plone is built on top of Zope 2, so the same caveats apply14:39
mgedminalthough I believe the Plone people have created fancy wrappers that hide some of the sharp edges14:39
mgedminyou keep saying my name14:40
brunnimgedmin: sorry, my irc client... zope2 is not too complicated for me but it may get when it will get even less maintained. i would also run away from it if I could14:40
brunnimgedmin: will easy_install Zope2 install the correct version of zope.pagetemplate when the zope subdomains are working again or is this problem not relatted ?14:42
mgedmin"Follow the instructions in doc/INSTALL.rst to install Zope."14:42
mgedminoh this is sooo useful on the PyPI page14:42
* mgedmin tries pip install Zope2 in a virtualenv14:43
mgedminwow pypi is fast nowadays14:44
*** avoinea has quit IRC14:44
* brunni thinks assuming that the zope subdomains will ever work again may not be appropriate14:45
mgedminoh, I'm sure they will14:45
*** avoinea has joined #zope14:46
*** Wu has quit IRC14:46
*** Wu has joined #zope14:46
*** motto has joined #zope14:48
*** pingveno has quit IRC14:48
*** m8 has quit IRC14:48
brunnimgedmin: I would have used and buildout to install but the tar.gz file for 2.13.20 is missing and the zip file does not contain everything seems to be falling apart...14:48
*** pingveno has joined #zope14:49
mgedminyou can get from
*** motto has quit IRC14:50
* brunni tries pip install Zope2 too14:50
*** motto has joined #zope14:51
*** dayne has joined #zope14:52
*** sunew has joined #zope14:54
mgedminyup, ImportError: cannot import name _error_start14:56
mgedminI can pip install zope.pagetemplate==4.0.014:57
mgedminand then I get a different ImportError: No module named untrustedpython14:57
brunnimgedmin: and you think the wrong versions are caused by * being down ?14:57
mgedminwrong versions are caused by new releases being made to PyPI14:58
mgedminthat drop backwards compatibility14:58
mgedmin(intentionally or unintentionally)14:58
brunnimgedmin: any idea how to install zope2 then ?14:59
mgedmintrial and error15:00
*** m8tt8 has joined #zope15:01
*** motto has quit IRC15:01
brunnimgedmin: I don't understand this. Zope 2.12.3 has a versions.cfg. Has this been abandonned in 2.13.x ?15:03
mgedminoh, cool15:04
mgedmin(a) I've no idea; I stopped using zope 2 a long time ago15:04
mgedmin(b) if you've got a versions.cfg, use it!15:04
MatthewWilkesbrunni: I use in most projects, so I'd say no15:04
mgedminI'm only participating in this conversation because I'm somewhat familiar with the related technologies, and all the genuine Zope 2 experts appear to be sleeping15:04
mgedminprobably the smartest thing to do would be to download the zope 2 tarball from pypi and look for doc/INSTALL.txt15:05
brunnimgedmin: that is the first thing I tried. the tarball with and versions.cfg is missing. easy_install and pip do not work...15:06
brunniMatthewWilkes: thanks for the link. maybe I can use it when is up again15:07
mgedminokay, doc/INSTALL.rst says15:08
MatthewWilkesbrunni: Indeed15:08
mgedmin"$ bin/easy_install -i<Zope version> Zope2"15:08
mgedminthat would pin the right package versions15:08
mgedminbut it won't work if is down15:08
brunnimgedmin: ahhh...15:08
MatthewWilkesbrunni: Is there a particular versions.cfg you need? I might have it cached15:09
mgedminwould the google cache have a copy of<Zope version>/versions.cfg ?15:09
brunniMatthewWilkes: 2.13.2015:09
brunnigot it...15:11
MatthewWilkesI don't have a cache of it, so that's lucky!15:11
mgedminyou will also need ztk-versions.cfg for ztk 1.0.815:13
mgedmingood luck15:14
brunnimgedmin: I will have to find out what to do with those files first :-)15:14
mgedminstrip any html etc. make sure they're plain-text15:14
mgedminreplace the extends = with just extends = ztk-versions.cfg15:14
mgedminthen, um... you need a buildout.cfg15:15
mgedminsomething like might work15:15
mgedminso, three files: versions.cfg, ztk-versions.cfg, buildout.cfg15:16
mgedminand a from
mgedminin a new empty directory15:16
*** m8tt8 has quit IRC15:16
mgedminthen run python2.7 bootstrap.py15:16
mgedminand bin/buildout15:16
mgedminand that should produce a bin/mkzopeinstance15:16
mgedminthat you can use to create a new zope insntanc15:16
*** MrTango has quit IRC15:17
*** m8tt8 has joined #zope15:17
brunnimgedmin: thank you very much for your help. If this does not work I will wait for and try easy_install -i again15:20
brunniInteresting. is on the same servers as the zope subdomains and therefore also down15:23
*** thetet has joined #zope15:26
myroslavmgedmin: is accessible...15:32
myroslavbrunni: ^^15:32
brunnimyroslav: thnx15:35
brunnimgedmin: ./bin/mkzopeinstance throws ImportError: No module named Zope2. I will try easy_install when things are back normal :-)15:40
mgedminso, my buildout.cfg was wrong15:42
mgedminwhere I said Zope it should've said Zope215:42
brunnimgedmin: I already corrected that15:42
mgedminin both places?15:42
brunnimgedmin: forget it. I would prefer easy_install anyway as the other way to install does not work out of the box any more15:44
brunnithnx to all for helping! Good to know that there are still people around that can help ;-) Bye!15:46
*** brunni has quit IRC15:46
*** eperez has quit IRC15:58
*** fdrake has joined #zope15:58
*** kosh has joined #zope15:59
*** tisto|away is now known as tisto16:03
*** menesis has joined #zope16:05
*** motto has joined #zope16:07
*** myroslav_ has joined #zope16:10
*** RichyB has quit IRC16:11
*** myroslav has quit IRC16:11
*** m8tt8 has quit IRC16:12
*** sunew has quit IRC16:12
*** iElectric has quit IRC16:12
*** povbot_ has joined #zope16:13
*** povbot has quit IRC16:14
*** J1m has joined #zope16:15
*** avn_ has joined #zope16:15
*** polysix_ has joined #zope16:15
*** m8tt8 has joined #zope16:16
*** mgedmin_ has joined #zope16:18
*** avn has quit IRC16:18
*** motto has quit IRC16:18
*** mgedmin has quit IRC16:18
*** harrow has quit IRC16:18
*** polysix has quit IRC16:18
*** harrow has joined #zope16:19
*** mgedmin_ has quit IRC16:20
*** mgedmin_ has joined #zope16:20
*** mgedmin_ is now known as mgedmin16:20
*** sm_ is now known as sm16:20
*** m8tt8 has quit IRC16:22
*** nueces has quit IRC16:41
*** nueces has joined #zope16:41 is back!16:43
*** sp0cksbeard has joined #zope16:50
*** giacomos has quit IRC16:50
*** nueces has quit IRC16:51
*** giacomos has joined #zope16:51
*** nueces has joined #zope16:53
*** m8 has joined #zope16:54
*** J1m_ has joined #zope16:55
*** m8 has quit IRC16:57
*** __mac__ has quit IRC16:58
*** m8 has joined #zope16:58
*** goschtl has quit IRC17:00
*** m8 has quit IRC17:01
*** m8 has joined #zope17:01
*** zagy has quit IRC17:09
*** zagy has joined #zope17:10
*** zagy has quit IRC17:11
*** britton has joined #zope17:13
*** benji has quit IRC17:17
*** kosh has quit IRC17:23
*** supton has joined #zope17:29
jakkeHi guys, looking for someone who's willing to brainstorm with me17:32
jakkeI'm working on z3c.schem2json now, and that works great17:32
jakkethe problem is, I have references from 2 schema objects to each other17:33
*** esteele has left #zope17:33
*** benji has joined #zope17:33
jakkeso Class A has an attribute the references class B, and Class B has an attribute that references Class A17:33
jakkewhen encoding according to the schema, it will keep on looping from an A-object into a B-object and back into an A-object17:34
jakkeMy original attempt to create an object-to-dict serializer used an 'ignore interfaces' option, to prevent this kind of loops17:35
jakkeis that the way to go, or are there better options?17:35
suptonjakke: what kind of field?17:37
jakkea zope.schema object field17:38
suptonmy previous approach was to have a subclass of object to differentiate between containement and mere reference.17:38
*** sunew has quit IRC17:38
suptonsubclass of schema.Object I mean17:38
jakkehmm, get the idea17:39
jakkethere has been made an extension to follow the reference from the one to the other, don't remember if it was done that way17:40
suptonjakke: or, if you want something more general, not requiring users of your package to create a custom field type, then use tagged values on the interface object to mark17:40
*** J1m_ has quit IRC17:40
*** alecm has joined #zope17:41
*** alecm has joined #zope17:41
jakkesupton: sounds like an idea, marker interface or something alike when it's a reference :)17:41
jakkeand make schema2json aware of the IIgnore interface or whatever17:42
suptonjakke: I suppose a marker interface on the individual field is possible17:42
*** J1m_ has joined #zope17:42
jakkethink so, I'll look into it17:42
jakkesupton: thx for the idea!17:42
suptonjakke: this kind of problem isn't merely constrained to serialization, the same issues exist with validation… e.g. if you use zope.schema.fieldproperty.FieldProperty on a schema.object field17:42
jakkewe have an extension, named FetchableProperty17:43
suptonso there are times when you do not want to follow the reference for validation, serialization, etc17:43
jakkebut I didn't do the implementation17:43
jakkeand it's a bit too long, but I should indeed check, because there is no  validation recursion either!17:43
jakkeright, it's a subclass of zope.schema.object17:48
jakkewith it's own _validate, cutting out the fetchable_properties17:48
jakkehard one to implement into a generic schema2json17:49
jakkemarker interface looks like a better solution then17:49
jakkesupton: so you were right :)17:49
*** motto has joined #zope17:49
*** m8 has quit IRC17:49
*** sp0cksbeard_ has joined #zope17:50
*** sp0cksbeard has quit IRC17:50
*** sp0cksbeard_ is now known as sp0cksbeard17:50
*** puittenbroek has quit IRC17:51
*** alecm has quit IRC17:53
*** alecm has joined #zope17:53
*** alecm has joined #zope17:53
*** MatthewWilkes is now known as mwilkes|away17:53
*** mwilkes|away is now known as MatthewWilkes17:53
*** AdamDangoor has joined #zope17:55
*** MatthewWilkes is now known as mwilkes|away17:56
*** mwilkes|away is now known as MatthewWilkes17:57
jakkesupton: It looks to me that adding an "IReference" interface, or whatever is in the name, is best done in zope.schema itself, not in z3c.schema2json17:58
jakkedon't you think?17:58
jakkemakes it usable for the referencing problem while validating as well17:59
*** dayne has quit IRC18:02
*** AdamDangoor has quit IRC18:02
suptonjakke: not sure18:02
*** tisto has quit IRC18:04
jakkewhat would be against adding an IReference interface in zope.schema?18:04
*** nueces has quit IRC18:05
suptonwell, there may be other idioms folks have used for this, I am not sure18:07
jakkeI'll give it a shot with an interface in schema2json then, and talk it through with Gotcha18:09
suptonmaybe email zope or zope-dev mailing list18:09
jakkeeven better idea :D18:09
*** daMaestro has joined #zope18:12
*** mindthief414 has joined #zope18:15
*** agroszer has quit IRC18:18
*** esteele|away has joined #zope18:19
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele18:19
*** zbir has quit IRC18:31
*** __mac__ has joined #zope18:32
*** dayne has joined #zope18:35
*** maurits has quit IRC18:38
*** kroman0 has quit IRC18:42
*** __mac__ has quit IRC18:42
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away18:55
*** m8 has joined #zope19:01
*** motto has quit IRC19:02
*** daMaestro has quit IRC19:03
*** motto has joined #zope19:06
*** m8 has quit IRC19:07
*** zagy has joined #zope19:08
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele19:08
*** Spanktar has joined #zope19:17
*** thetet has quit IRC19:20
*** nueces has joined #zope19:24
*** daMaestro has joined #zope19:26
*** tiwula has joined #zope19:28
*** giacomos has quit IRC19:29
*** zagy has quit IRC19:30
*** nueces has quit IRC19:36
*** zagy has joined #zope19:39
*** daMaestro has quit IRC19:40
*** zagy has quit IRC19:40
*** daMaestro has joined #zope19:44
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away19:46
*** menesis has quit IRC19:46
*** mgedmin has quit IRC19:56
*** avoinea has quit IRC19:56
*** avoinea has joined #zope19:56
*** mgedmin has joined #zope19:58
*** myroslav has quit IRC19:59
*** zagy has joined #zope20:02
*** agroszer has joined #zope20:11
*** J1m_ has left #zope20:19
*** J1m_ has quit IRC20:19
*** zagy has quit IRC20:31
*** mitchell` has quit IRC20:39
*** mitchell` has joined #zope20:39
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele20:42
*** agroszer has quit IRC20:57
*** MatthewWilkes is now known as mwilkes|away20:59
*** thetet has joined #zope21:01
*** m8 has joined #zope21:02
*** thetet has joined #zope21:02
*** motto has quit IRC21:03
*** emidal has quit IRC21:05
*** Pumukel has joined #zope21:06
*** zagy has joined #zope21:09
*** fredvd has quit IRC21:15
*** tmog has quit IRC21:23
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away21:26
*** m8 has quit IRC21:31
*** m8 has joined #zope21:32
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele21:37
*** supton has quit IRC21:41
*** __mac__ has joined #zope21:41
*** __mac__ has quit IRC21:49
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away21:59
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele22:04
*** zbir has joined #zope22:10
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away22:19
*** __mac__ has joined #zope22:25
*** tiwula has quit IRC22:27
*** tiwula has joined #zope22:33
*** alecm has quit IRC22:36
*** zbir has quit IRC22:36
*** menesis has joined #zope22:41
*** zbir has joined #zope22:46
*** Spanktar has quit IRC22:52
*** Spanktar has joined #zope22:56
*** alecm has joined #zope22:58
*** alecm has joined #zope22:58
*** alecm has quit IRC23:02
*** zbir has quit IRC23:02
*** esteele|away is now known as esteele23:14
*** benbange1t is now known as benbangert23:34
*** esteele is now known as esteele|away23:39
*** zagy has quit IRC23:54
*** kosh has joined #zope23:57

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!