IRC log of #zope for Thursday, 2014-05-22

*** RiverRat has quit IRC00:29
*** RiverRat has joined #zope00:30
*** RiverRat has quit IRC00:36
*** RiverRat has joined #zope00:36
*** giacomos has joined #zope00:53
*** fdrake has quit IRC01:23
*** dixond_ has joined #zope01:28
*** dixond has quit IRC01:33
*** River_Rat has joined #zope01:34
*** ree has quit IRC01:34
*** ree has joined #zope01:35
*** KageSenshi has quit IRC01:38
*** menesis has quit IRC01:38
*** RiverRat has quit IRC01:38
*** Arfrever has quit IRC01:38
*** _mup__ has joined #zope01:42
*** benji_ has joined #zope01:43
*** benji has quit IRC01:49
*** River_Rat has quit IRC01:50
*** _mup_ has quit IRC01:54
*** _mup__ is now known as _mup_01:54
*** River_Rat has joined #zope02:02
*** KageSenshi has joined #zope02:11
*** River-Rat has joined #zope02:19
*** River_Rat has quit IRC02:20
*** kosh has joined #zope02:21
*** giacomos has quit IRC02:27
*** KageSenshi has quit IRC02:29
*** zenwryly has quit IRC02:59
*** zenwryly has joined #zope02:59
*** tiwula has quit IRC03:07
*** KageSenshi has joined #zope04:06
*** River-Rat is now known as RiverRat04:07
*** kiorky has quit IRC04:23
*** kiorky has joined #zope04:34
*** zenwryly has quit IRC05:43
*** zenwryly has joined #zope05:43
*** tiwula has joined #zope05:57
*** ThoMe has joined #zope05:57
*** benji_ has quit IRC06:03
*** ThoMe_ has quit IRC06:03
*** ree has quit IRC06:07
*** ree has joined #zope06:08
*** RiverRat has quit IRC06:08
*** benji has joined #zope06:11
*** RiverRat has joined #zope06:14
*** KageSenshi has quit IRC06:30
*** HyperJohnGraham has joined #zope06:44
*** yvl has joined #zope07:18
*** alecm has quit IRC07:23
*** zenwryly has quit IRC07:35
*** zenwryly has joined #zope07:35
*** kosh has quit IRC08:13
*** __mac__ has joined #zope08:16
*** tiwula has quit IRC08:54
*** PeterZ1 has joined #zope08:55
*** PeterZ1 has left #zope08:55
*** eperez has joined #zope09:29
*** RiverRat has quit IRC09:31
*** RiverRat has joined #zope09:31
*** avoinea has joined #zope09:32
*** HyperJohnGraham has quit IRC09:41
*** agroszer has joined #zope10:13
*** giacomos has joined #zope10:37
*** maurits has joined #zope10:42
*** zenwryly has quit IRC11:00
*** zenwryly has joined #zope11:00
*** giacomos has quit IRC11:00
*** yvl has quit IRC11:14
*** giacomos has joined #zope11:19
*** menesis has joined #zope11:26
*** mitchell`off is now known as mitchell`11:44
*** zenwryly has quit IRC12:16
*** zenwryly has joined #zope12:16
*** yvl has joined #zope13:35
*** giacomos1 has joined #zope14:00
*** avoinea has quit IRC14:05
*** avoinea has joined #zope14:06
*** giacomos1 has quit IRC14:09
*** m8 has joined #zope14:12
*** kosh has joined #zope16:03
*** rbanffy has joined #zope16:06
*** eperez has quit IRC16:10
*** giacomos has quit IRC16:33
*** fdrake has joined #zope16:38
*** KageSenshi has joined #zope16:39
*** giacomos has joined #zope16:48
*** agroszer has quit IRC16:49
*** alecm has joined #zope17:19
*** alecm has joined #zope17:19
*** kosh has quit IRC17:28
*** __mac__ has quit IRC17:49
*** __mac__ has joined #zope17:53
*** mitchell` is now known as mitchell`afk18:14
*** daMaestro has joined #zope18:28
*** __mac__ has quit IRC18:40
*** __mac__ has joined #zope18:56
*** __mac__ has quit IRC19:00
*** __mac__ has joined #zope19:09
*** seppo14 has joined #zope19:16
seppo14hello guys, any comments on new web app development using Zope2 and ZODB? I consider Zope2 to be quite stable… Been using it for many years now. Thinking about using it for a new project… would you use Zope2 for new projects or head over to frameworks like CherryPy or Web2Py? What should keep me from using Zope2 for new projects?19:19
*** tiwula has joined #zope19:22
*** __mac__ has quit IRC19:37
*** giacomos has quit IRC19:42
*** zenwryly has quit IRC20:11
*** zenwryly has joined #zope20:11
*** maurits has quit IRC20:28
betabugseppo14: pyramid using zodb - that's where I went, enjoying it a lot21:09
betabugdunno if I'd call Zope2 stable21:09
betabugbut pyramid has all the best stuff from zope and is very well maintained and documented21:09
seppo14browsing the docs right now, already considered it….21:10
seppo14i'd love to keep ZPT style for templates..21:10
mcdonci might suggest substanced, which is based on pyramid, but has most of the features of zope (admin ui, property sheets) except ttw coding21:10
seppo14nice, never heard of this one before...21:12
mcdoncit's our (well at least my) apology for zope 221:12
mcdonc"sorry, here's what we meant"21:13
seppo14hehe i see what you're talking about...21:13
seppo14we're stuck to zope2 on some part as we're still developing for ZMS ( which is quite a good CMS21:13
seppo14but right now we're planning to rebuild a larger php/mysql based web app and I'm not going the PHP route here...21:14
seppo14i'm actually one of the rare guys out there that loves the way ZODB works…21:15
mcdoncwell bare pyramid (or bare flask or bare bottle or cherrypy) w/ ZODB is one way to go21:15
mcdoncbut if you already know zope, and the app requires an admin ui, it's kind of a nobrainer to at least try substance d21:16
seppo14what I'm not sure about is how ZODB handles many "queries"… current mysql tables are 150.000 rows and more…21:17
mcdonczodb doesnt21:17
seppo14haven't had that situation with zodb before...21:17
mcdonccatalog implementations do21:17
seppo14that's what i meant actually…21:17
seppo14i've seen the postgres comparison somewhere21:18
mcdonc150000 rows is roughly equivalent to 150000 documents i'd suppose, and that's not very many21:18
seppo14if you say so ;-)21:18
mcdonca customer of mine has 500,000 items in a single folder (in a substanced site) and uses "live search" against the catalog21:18
mcdoncwhere when he types he sees the list of matching docs change21:18
seppo14i'm just sick of handling that php stuff everyday, so we convinced our client that a migration of the project to something serious would be good for both sides...21:19
mcdoncyeah, well, deciding not to use php and deciding not to use sql are two distinct choices, so it'd probably be in your best interest to make them separately21:20
mcdoncporting would be easier if you left the stuff in sql obviously21:20
seppo14the decision not to use php has already been made21:20
seppo14the sql one is still open21:21
seppo14leaving the sql route for the primary storage would mean we'd have to build export interfaces putting the data into sql again for the client's client's, who need to access data directly via sql interface databases atm21:21
seppo14on the other hand we're considering building a json/rest api anyway and leaving that too21:22
seppo14i'm not sure how this makes sense with a lot of queries irl21:22
seppo14but thanks for your input so far guys..21:22
mcdoncif they already have direct sql access it'll be difficult to take that away21:22
seppo14we'll see ,-)21:23
mcdoncsqlalchemy is great even if you don't use the orm (it has connection pooling stuff)21:24
seppo14well still better than one part of the app where the client still transfers xml files via ftp everyday - and we're talking about 50.000+21:24
seppo14yep, would be the way to go21:24
mcdoncthat said, if you need "multitenancy" (more than one "site" per domain) or delegation, it's hard to beat zopelike things21:25
seppo14how does zodb handle things scaling-wise compared to mysql?21:25
mcdoncwell, if you use relstorage, it handles them how your backend handles them21:26
mcdoncso if you used mysql it would be same replication stuff21:26
mcdoncor you could use zrs, which is essentially federated zeo21:26
seppo14never worked with relstorage21:26
mcdoncit's not very hard21:27
mcdoncit's just pickles stored in relational database tables instead of a file on disk21:27
*** seppo14 has left #zope21:27
*** seppo14 has joined #zope21:27
seppo14what's the difference to storing them on file? i.e. advantage? performance? querying?21:28
mcdoncit's about the same runtime performance (most of zodb's expense comes at unpickling)21:28
mcdoncadvantage is being able to replicate21:29
mcdoncand use same backup strategy as the other stuff you store in an rdb21:29
seppo14ok, my reading list grows. actually I'd love to have most of the zope features without the "old dusty" zope2...21:29
mcdoncnote that it doesnt mean your data is readable via plain old sql21:29
seppo14ah ok21:30
mcdoncyou can't eg. "select * from blog_posts where user = 'fred'"21:30
mcdoncit stores pickles21:30
seppo14i see, it's just a backend as the doc says21:30
seppo14but in terms of replication that makes things a lot easier i guess21:30
mcdoncyeah especially if you already know how to replicate the backend db21:31
mcdoncif you don't, then its just as hard ;-)21:31
seppo14we're got some experience with that21:31
seppo14so far thanks for the ideas, will have to get into some of that stuff a bit more and make a decision next week...21:32
*** seppo14 has quit IRC21:38
*** mitchell`afk is now known as mitchell`off21:47
*** avoinea has quit IRC22:04
*** tiwula has quit IRC22:21
*** ThoMe has left #zope23:31
*** zenwryly has quit IRC23:38
*** zenwryly has joined #zope23:38
*** zenwryly has quit IRC23:41
*** zenwryly has joined #zope23:41
*** zenwryly has quit IRC23:43
*** zenwryly has joined #zope23:43
*** zenwryly has quit IRC23:52
*** zenwryly has joined #zope23:52
*** zenwryly has quit IRC23:54
*** zenwryly has joined #zope23:54

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!