IRC log of #zope for Monday, 2015-01-12

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do3ccmgedmin: I revisited the zope.testrunner and I realized something, we are abusing __bases__, which itself is actually a python provided attribute giving the direct base classes13:07
do3ccthe docs state in no place that __bases__ is a layer property. So imho if MininalTestLayer fakes __bases__ it is messing with internal undocument structure of zope.testrunner13:07
do3ccthe plone.testing docs also get it wrong13:08
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mgedmindo3cc, IIRC the people responsible admitted it was a mistake to use __bases__ as the name of that attribute15:36
mgedmin"Layers are generally implemented as classes using class methods."15:38
mgedminimplying that they're not necessarily classes15:38
mgedmin(this is from zope/testrunner/tests/testrunner-layers-api.txt)15:39
do3ccyes, I read the docs too, and linked them15:39
mgedminI'm not a fan of the zope.testrunner layer design15:40
do3ccI am not a fan of the documentation15:41
do3ccdoesnt hel[p15:41
mgedminexample of layer-as-an-instance:
do3ccabusing internal non documented behavior15:42
do3cchmm, non documented behavior, I see many changes one can do in zope that don't need minor or major version number increase ;-)15:42
mgedminjust another day in zopeland15:43
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mgedminthere's a subthread starting with
mgedminwhere people argue about why classes are a bad implementation technique for layers15:57
mgedmin is notable15:59
mgedminand this is why people started using instances to represent layers16:00
do3ccplone does not use instances16:00
do3ccelse davisaglis code would not work16:00
do3ccbut I understand the critic from martin16:00
mgedminI think gocept.selenium also uses layer instances, but I'm not sure16:02
mgedminthe code is hard to follow :/16:02
mgedminoh right, gocept.selenium is based on plone.testing's layers16:03
mgedminwith __bases__ as an instance variable16:03
do3ccI wonder if I should just stop here and und 4.4.516:03
do3ccI don't want to support code that abuses __bases__ property16:04
mgedmintalk to Jim, he disagrees that there's any abuse going on :)16:04
mgedminI'm willing to make zope.testrunner work with non-class-based layers16:05
mgedminbecause I want the run-unit-tests-first part of the latest patchset16:05
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do3ccI am at a loss for words16:05
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