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| shapr | I'd like to see the difference, can you point it out? | 17:22 |
| shapr | J1m: do you have a list of 'basic abstractions' ? | 17:24 |
| shapr | I've been collecting such a thing lately, in hopes of coming up with a design for something that uses a lot less state than Zope. | 17:25 |
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| srichter | J1m: I really do not like having the ZODB code as externals :-) "svn stat" gives too much output now | 17:33 |
| J1m | srichter, me neither | 17:33 |
| srichter | a chance we can do it the old way again? | 17:34 |
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| J1m | srichter, I'd like to stick with this for now. | 17:36 |
| J1m | I think we should give the other way a chance. | 17:36 |
| srichter | I have worked 2 days with it and I cannot stand it; it makes it more complicated to see what changed | 17:37 |
| srichter | it definitely decreases my productivity | 17:37 |
| srichter | (just some feedback from me) | 17:37 |
| gintas | srichter, cd into the directory you are working in before invoking 'svn st' | 17:37 |
| srichter | but I do not want to do that | 17:38 |
| srichter | because I also oftemn make changes to doc and package-includes | 17:38 |
| ignas | gintas, that increases the risk of forgetting to commit tests, or some minor changes ... | 17:38 |
| srichter | and if I go into the dir I tend to forget them | 17:38 |
| srichter | also, I run the tests from the root | 17:39 |
| gintas | you can work around the problem | 17:39 |
| gintas | check out ZODB and other modules externally | 17:39 |
| gintas | then in your checkout's Zope3/src create symlinks to those checkouts | 17:39 |
| ignas | svn st | grep -v external ? :) | 17:39 |
| gintas | svn st will still be noisy, but it will be quick because it won't recurse into the modules | 17:40 |
| srichter | but I do not want to do that. That is all more work, so I have more overhead which makes me less productive | 17:40 |
| srichter | the point is it is more confusing or more work than before | 17:40 |
| srichter | and I do not understand why | 17:40 |
| gintas | as far as I understand previously changes would get lost because they were committed to the wrong repository | 17:41 |
| J1m | The best way to work around this is probably to create a script that runs svn status and filters the output. | 17:41 |
| gintas | conceptually I like the new model better | 17:41 |
| srichter | J1m: yep, that would at least only require extra work once; but then I have to remember a new command (I know, I am lazy!) | 17:42 |
| ignas | svn st | grep -v external | grep -v X | grep -v ^$:) | 17:42 |
| srichter | :-( | 17:42 |
| ignas | the :) is optional | 17:42 |
| Damascene | haha | 17:42 |
| gintas | grep -v X ? | 17:43 |
| ignas | ^X eoulf br better i guess | 17:43 |
| ignas | would | 17:43 |
| gintas | srichter, my first suggestion was moot, I was thinking about svn up (which takes a while until all the externals are checked) rather than svn st | 17:44 |
| srichter | anyway, I just wanted to raise my voice that I do not like this stuff | 17:45 |
| J1m | I think we should try it a bit longer. | 17:45 |
| srichter | I wish there would be an SVN option to turn off status checking on externals | 17:45 |
| J1m | If we decode to switch back to copies, we should *not* expect Tim to maintain the copy. | 17:46 |
| srichter | I agree | 17:46 |
| J1m | It should be *our* responsibility to synchronize w ZODB. | 17:46 |
| srichter | yep | 17:46 |
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| faassen | srichter: I looked around for such a switch, but apparently the svn developers said that would be bad. I wasn't clear on why. :) | 17:59 |
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| faassen | Marius already sent something to the mailing list about this. | 18:04 |
| faassen | and there's also an issue, though according to Marius it conflates too many issues. | 18:04 |
| faassen | http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2189 | 18:04 |
| faassen | Okay, 'checkout', 'export', 'update', and 'status', now accept a --ignore-externals option as of r12832. Changing this issue summary to track just the stickiness aspect now. | 18:04 |
| faassen | apparently it's coming to some version of svn. | 18:04 |
| faassen | that was a message from jan 23. | 18:05 |
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| faassen | so it looks like help is on the way, in some unknown version of svn. | 18:09 |
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| faassen | hopefully 1.2, out april/may. | 18:09 |
| faassen | no, even mar/april. | 18:09 |
| faassen | so just about now. :) | 18:09 |
| faassen | yes, changelog confirms it's going to be in 1.2 | 18:11 |
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| faassen | they already shipped a rc1 of 1.2 yesterday. | 18:12 |
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| efge | I want to store for the duration of a transaction a list of persistent objects, can I rely on id(ob) not changing under me ? So that I can use id(ob) as a key in a dict | 18:21 |
| SteveA_ | yes | 18:25 |
| efge | thx | 18:25 |
| SteveA_ | id(ob) will not change for an objec | 18:26 |
| SteveA_ | you might want to use _p_oid though | 18:26 |
| SteveA_ | if they are persistent objects | 18:26 |
| SteveA_ | because if they are collected and then reloaded from the connection | 18:26 |
| SteveA_ | then the id will change | 18:26 |
| SteveA_ | because it will be a new object | 18:26 |
| efge | collected? | 18:26 |
| SteveA_ | why not just store a reference to the objects themselves in the list? | 18:26 |
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| SteveA_ | garbage collected | 18:27 |
| efge | for speed I'd prefer to use a dict | 18:27 |
| efge | to check for presence faster | 18:27 |
| SteveA_ | in schooltool, there's a PersistentObjectsSet (or similar) | 18:27 |
| efge | (some objects may be added several times, I want to keep only one) | 18:27 |
| SteveA_ | that is a set, the "setness" based on the _p_oid | 18:27 |
| SteveA_ | you could use a dict | 18:28 |
| SteveA_ | keys _p_oid, values objects | 18:28 |
| efge | ok I'll use _p_oid then, thanks | 18:28 |
| SteveA_ | when you say "persistent"... you mean 1st class persistent, right? | 18:28 |
| efge | yes | 18:28 |
| efge | _p_oid is set as soon as my ob is stored as subobject of an object that has a _p_jar, right ? | 18:29 |
| SteveA_ | no | 18:29 |
| SteveA_ | so, you might need to use connection.add | 18:29 |
| SteveA_ | _p_jar is a connection, of course | 18:29 |
| SteveA_ | connection.add() was added for exactly this reason | 18:29 |
| efge | (thing is, I'm asking this here but this is for Zope 2 and ZODB 3.2 ;-) | 18:30 |
| SteveA_ | oh | 18:30 |
| SteveA_ | this requires zodb3.3 | 18:30 |
| efge | add() ? yes I think I saw that, and it's messier in ZODB 3.2 | 18:30 |
| SteveA_ | i doubt it has been backported | 18:31 |
| efge | ok to hell with speed, I'll use a simple list of aq_base(ob) | 18:31 |
| efge | and optimize later :) | 18:31 |
| SteveA_ | whatever aq_base() means ;-) | 18:32 |
| efge | lol | 18:32 |
| SteveA_ | you can use a dict of id(aq_base(ob)) : aq_base(ob) | 18:32 |
| SteveA_ | so, the ob won't be collection | 18:32 |
| SteveA_ | so, the ob won't be collected | 18:32 |
| SteveA_ | and that gives you a speedy lookup too | 18:33 |
| SteveA_ | seeing as it is all in one transaction | 18:33 |
| efge | actually they have no __hash__ so I can't | 18:33 |
| SteveA_ | ? | 18:33 |
| efge | ah misread sorry | 18:33 |
| SteveA_ | k | 18:33 |
| efge | so id() is ok then ? | 18:33 |
| SteveA_ | yes | 18:33 |
| SteveA_ | provided you keep a reference to the object | 18:34 |
| efge | I do, yes | 18:34 |
| SteveA_ | which of course you have to do anyway to look it up | 18:34 |
| SteveA_ | as you can't look up an object by id, except from C | 18:34 |
| efge | and anyway I want to stored the wrapped version too | 18:34 |
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| srichter | faassen: thanks, that will definitely help; I hope it can be a svnrc option as well | 19:09 |
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| srichter | J1m: do you have a moment? | 20:48 |
| J1m | sure | 20:48 |
| srichter | I think I found the problem with the test failure | 20:48 |
| srichter | for my preference code to work, I have to manually (as in the Python code) register a checker function: | 20:49 |
| srichter | defineChecker(PreferenceGroup, PreferenceGroupChecker) | 20:49 |
| srichter | however, in zope.security.checker, a cleanup mfunction is registered with the test cleanup registry that cleans up the entire checker registry | 20:50 |
| srichter | which kills my security declaration | 20:50 |
| srichter | so, now I do not know what to do.... | 20:50 |
| J1m | Why don't you define the checker in zcml? | 20:50 |
| srichter | do we have a directive that let's me specify a checker function for a particular class? | 20:50 |
| srichter | do we have a directive for this? | 20:51 |
| J1m | Do you need a custom checker? | 20:51 |
| srichter | I need it to be dynamically generated, yes | 20:51 |
| srichter | because attributes will be available based on the schema a preference group provides | 20:51 |
| J1m | Do you generate classes? | 20:53 |
| J1m | anyway, you could use __Security_checker__ | 20:53 |
| srichter | no, but instances provide different types of attributes | 20:53 |
| J1m | use __Security_checker__ | 20:53 |
| srichter | ok | 20:53 |
| srichter | does this accept a function or a checker class? | 20:54 |
| J1m | It is a checker instance. | 20:54 |
| srichter | what is the value __Security_checker__ should have? | 20:54 |
| srichter | :-( | 20:54 |
| srichter | ok, I guess I could do this in the __init__ | 20:55 |
| srichter | or whenever the schema changes, I change the checker as well | 20:55 |
| srichter | J1m: btw, there are several failures when running tests with -N 2 | 20:57 |
| srichter | (some are in apidoc, but some are soemwhere else too | 20:57 |
| J1m | That doesn't surprise me | 20:58 |
| J1m | Unfortunately | 20:58 |
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| srichter | J1m: btw, I fixed the persistent module code. it works again and I fixed a bug in src/zodbcode (I hope it was not copied) | 20:59 |
| J1m | Cool. I still don't want to include that in 3.1. :) | 21:00 |
| srichter | of course | 21:00 |
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