IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-06-14

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projekt01Jim, ayt?00:32
projekt01Do you know when the blob support lands in ZODB?00:32
J1mProbably in ZODB 3.6.00:33
projekt01I can prepare a new clean branch for the IFile implementation00:33
J1m(ZODB 3.5 will happen quickly because of the cross-database reference support I added for Zope 3.1.)00:33
projekt01I have a lot of issue for the new File Widgets where I have to think about first00:34
projekt01E.g. session support00:34
J1mYou could base it on
projekt01Perhaps I start a clean new branch next week where I can try out some ways00:35
projekt01And first move the Widget and Schema work to this branch00:36
projekt01What do you think about the i18n packages?00:36
projekt01Can we move our implementation to the trunk too?00:36
J1mWhat i18n packages?00:37
J1mwhat widget and schema work?00:37
projekt01E.g. a local Negotiator and some base classes for develop custom i18n classes.00:37
J1mSorry, I'm not familiar with that.00:38
projekt01New FileWidget on a IMimeField (the IMimeField contains subschemas describing content type etc) this makes it possible to guess and set the content type on objects00:39
projekt01Via the MimeWidget I guess00:39
projekt01Let me do the branch first and I can show it to you00:39
projekt01I can point you next week to our i18n packages, then you can see what I mean.00:40
projekt01I also have finished the nested menu part, I'm still waiting after the release is branched, then I can checkin this part00:41
projekt01Then we also have to define a second nested structur for zmi_actions ;-)00:42
projekt01And decide if we should use it as default. I guess so, then it's really nice to select "Add File" from a nested menu and get rid of own views for that00:43
projekt01Right now the preferences are the only part which is missing, then we can use the Boston skin as a nice base00:44
J1msrichter's preferences machinery doesn't do what you need?00:45
projekt01I plan to add preferences for selecting which tree you like to use, this would it make the ZMI real cross browser compatible00:45
projekt01Yes, I just have to define schemas and at least a view for this00:45
projekt01But finding time is my only problem....00:46
J1mI can relate to that. :)00:46
projekt01Btw. We have our 4. Zope3 Sprint here in switzerland tomorrow00:46
J1mGreat. Are you getting good participation?00:47
projekt0115 people are comming, hosted at the Fachhochschule Solothurn00:47
J1mWow! Great!00:47
projekt01The next Sprint is hosted at the University of Bern and some Sprints are located at the ETH Zurich00:47
projekt01At the end of this year00:48
projekt01But it's really hard to get people introduced in Zope300:48
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J1mYou mean training them?00:49
projekt01It's quiet complex and most of the poeple need some time to think in adapters then in obejcts00:49
projekt01A component framework is very different then other OO-frameworks, and most people don't see how easy it is.00:51
J1mIt is a paradigm switch.00:52
projekt01Perhaps we should release a minimal starter release with less packages where people can train and do some first step00:52
projekt01Something like a starter pack00:52
J1mI tried to give people a gentle start with the tutorial.00:53
J1mA version of the tutorial without the emphasis on testing would probably go a long way.00:53
projekt01Yes that's Ok, but if they work with the trunk the get lost again00:53
projekt01It's too much and most people try to understand all at once and get a little frustrated00:54
J1mYou can't really teach it in one day.00:55
J1mYou need to give people time to do hands-on exercises.00:55
projekt01We also don't have a real starting point, except your tutorial, perhaps it's also a problem of the missing real "products"00:55
J1mstarting with pretty easy exercises.00:55
projekt01Yes that's true00:56
projekt01Perhaps some more real "products" in the future will solve the "how to get started" problem00:56
J1mI think some people are looking for more of a Z2-stype high-level experience.00:57
J1mWe don't have that yet.00:57
projekt01Right now we only have packages and there is no good way to find out what you can do with this packages00:57
projekt01I think we are ready to start implementing a CMS based on our library next week. Perhaps that will help too00:58
projekt01Ok, I send a mail to you if I started the IFile branch and need some help at the end of next week01:00
projekt01Ok I have to finish my talk for tomorrow01:01
projekt01See you01:01
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J1mhave fun!01:03
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projekt01Yes, thanks01:04
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* dagnachew is away: gone to a tennis court to get his daily fix of tennis 03:01
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* dagnachew is away: am back 03:57
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dagnachewhello all zopers04:13
dagnachewcan anyone tell me what is the state of zope04:14
dagnachewwhere are we ?04:14
dagnachewI know zope 2.8 is soon04:14
dagnachewto Zope 3.0 or to not ? this is the question04:14
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regebroI need to figure out why I get a ForbiddenAttribute error. Is there a non-c version of the security checkers, and if so, how do I enable them?13:31
J1mBetter yet, look at the exception.13:31
J1mIt tells you the class and the attribute name.13:32
J1mYou need to add a security declaration.13:32
J1mfor that class and attribute.13:32
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regebroI have a security declaration, and it doesn't help. So, I need to figure out why.13:35
regebroHowever, I just renamed the c-version, and all is good. ;)13:36
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regebroMhm.... It's using the checker called "Checker" to check an attribute on an object... That can't reasonably work, since it expects a mapping of what names are allowed...13:46
regebroA mapping that of course is empty, as it's not being provided...13:46
J1mYou need to look at your declaration.13:52
J1mIt's not being loaded, or13:52
J1mIt's not for the right class, or13:52
J1mIt's mentioning an interface that doesn't include what you think it does13:52
J1msrichter, ayt?13:58
regebroHm, ok, so that declaration is supposed to create a checker, that defines up that dictionary that is used to check?13:59
J1mIt creates and registers a checker.13:59
J1mThe checker uses 2 dictionaries to keep track of the permissions needed to get ans set attributes,14:00
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regebroOk, got it, and found the Five bug. Thanks!14:01
J1mNote that declarations are not inherited.14:01
regebroNow, what to do about this is another thing. :) But now I understand why it does not work. :)14:01
J1m(I think I'll change this in 3.2)14:01
regebroFives allow/require directives doesn't set these up, it only sets up Zope2 declarations.14:05
SteveAdeclarations will be inherited in 3.2?14:12
J1mThat is my plan.14:12
J1mBasically, I want to turn declarations into adapter factories.14:12
J1mso that security declarations are handled by the adapter mechanism.14:13
J1mIs that a problem?14:13
SteveAi don't think that's a problem.  i'll think about it a bit.14:21
J1mIt's not at all clear what the rational is one way or the other.14:22
J1mI thought a lot about this last fall and couldn't think of a good reason not to inherit.14:22
J1mThe only down side is that it is a little implicit.14:23
SteveAin launchpad, what we use for "grants" are looked up as adapters on object, principal-type, name=permission14:23
J1mIf I can, I'd like to make the inheritence work separately for each attribute.14:23
SteveAso, taking the authorization system as a whole, i think we're doing that anyway14:23
J1mHow so?14:24
SteveAi have a proposal that i need to implement that makes the "grants" get looked up according to the names in the interface it is registered for.14:24
SteveAso, it sounds like we end up in a very similar place.14:24
srichterJ1m: I am here noe14:24
J1mSteveA, I didn't follow that.14:25
SteveAfor permissions that aren't zope.Public, the authorization policy in launchpad looks up an IAuthorization adapter14:26
J1msrichter, either introspector or apidoc was willing to import modules that were not already imported.14:26
srichterJ1m: the class module of API doc was14:26
J1msrichter, is that still so?14:26
SteveAthe IAuthorization adapter basically says what abstract set of users can do that thing.14:26
srichterJ1m: yes, I am pretty sure14:26
J1mSteveA, so you aren't using permissions?14:26
SteveAthe IAuthorization adapters are registered against an interface, the interface of the principal, the name of the permission14:27
J1msrichter, is that necessary?  Is there any reason not to limit it to already impoted modules?14:27
SteveAso, i'd have one IAuthorization for doing launchpad.Edit on a Team by email.14:27
J1mSteveA, ah, interesting14:27
srichteryeah, that you might want to introspect an entire source tree14:27
SteveAthat says the owners of that team my do so, for example14:27
SteveAJ1m: i'm going to be presenting on this system at europython.14:28
J1mSteveA, I'd like to see your paper or slides.  I won't be there, unfortunately.14:28
srichterLet's say you are working on a project and only declared the sub-directory to be browsable, but have not done any other ZCML14:28
J1msrichter, we need to make that optional and not enabled by default.14:28
srichterin those cases classes and modules are not loaded but you want to look at them14:29
SteveAJ1m: sure.  shame you won't be there.14:29
J1mwhat do you mean "declared the subdirectoy to be browseable"?14:29
J1mSteveA, yes14:29
srichterI guess I could make it a preference14:29
J1msrichter, no, it should be enabled via zcml.14:30
srichteryou have to tell the class module browser which project is included14:30
J1mIt is a security hole.14:30
srichterso not every arbitrary Python pacakge is browsable14:30
J1mso, by default, are any packages browseable?14:30
srichterthe standard Zope packages are14:31
srichterlike ZODB, zope, Persistent, etc14:31
J1mBy default, no modules should be browsable.14:31
J1mBut, you should be able to browse already imported modules without a declaration.14:31
srichterI think I'll rather provide a ZCML directive that allows you to turn on new importing14:32
J1mSteveA, btw, the dates chosen for ep will discourage participation by US citizens with families.14:33
J1msrichter, works for me.14:33
J1mIt should be off by default.14:33
J1mI'm in the process of breaking the dependence on
J1mSteveA, I suspect that the choice of dates for PyCon dsicouraged Europeans, which was unfortunate.14:35
srichterJ1m: where is that dependence?14:35
SteveAJ1m: what's special about the europython dates?14:36 and
SteveAschool holidays?14:36
J1mThey fall the week before July 4.14:36
J1mThat is a long weekend and a pretty polular holiday in the US.14:36
srichterJ1m: but is there only for BBB. I am surprised it depends on teh module package14:37
J1mSort of like Easter in Europe.14:37
SteveAi see.  i'll pass that along to the organisers14:37
J1msrichter, well, it does, or rather did.14:37
J1mI heard that they were aware.14:37
SteveAfirst i've heard of it, and i keep up with most of the meil14:38
J1msrichter, tried, but failed to have a soft dependency.14:38
J1mSteveA, ok14:38
srichterJ1m: darn, I remember trying that14:39
J1msrichter, in any case, I'm about to check in a fix for those dependencies.14:39
J1msrichter, I send a new email on the status.14:41
J1mtime to get ready for f12g14:42
srichtergreat; I'll have a look at the ftest failure and the import issue14:42
srichtersee ya14:42
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dagnachewfounder of gentoo to work for Microsoft16:15
dagnachewwhere is Judd Vinet ?16:15
dagnachewwe should lock our Judd Vinet16:15
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