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| projekt01 | Jim, ayt? | 00:32 |
|---|---|---|
| J1m | yes | 00:32 |
| projekt01 | Do you know when the blob support lands in ZODB? | 00:32 |
| J1m | Probably in ZODB 3.6. | 00:33 |
| projekt01 | I can prepare a new clean branch for the IFile implementation | 00:33 |
| J1m | (ZODB 3.5 will happen quickly because of the cross-database reference support I added for Zope 3.1.) | 00:33 |
| J1m | Yup | 00:33 |
| projekt01 | I have a lot of issue for the new File Widgets where I have to think about first | 00:34 |
| projekt01 | E.g. session support | 00:34 |
| J1m | You could base it on http://svn.zope.org/ZODB/branches/ctheune-blobsupport/ | 00:34 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps I start a clean new branch next week where I can try out some ways | 00:35 |
| J1m | k | 00:35 |
| projekt01 | And first move the Widget and Schema work to this branch | 00:36 |
| projekt01 | What do you think about the i18n packages? | 00:36 |
| projekt01 | Can we move our implementation to the trunk too? | 00:36 |
| J1m | Hm? | 00:37 |
| J1m | What i18n packages? | 00:37 |
| J1m | what widget and schema work? | 00:37 |
| projekt01 | E.g. a local Negotiator and some base classes for develop custom i18n classes. | 00:37 |
| J1m | Sorry, I'm not familiar with that. | 00:38 |
| projekt01 | New FileWidget on a IMimeField (the IMimeField contains subschemas describing content type etc) this makes it possible to guess and set the content type on objects | 00:39 |
| projekt01 | Via the MimeWidget I guess | 00:39 |
| J1m | ah | 00:39 |
| J1m | right | 00:39 |
| projekt01 | Let me do the branch first and I can show it to you | 00:39 |
| J1m | k | 00:39 |
| projekt01 | I can point you next week to our i18n packages, then you can see what I mean. | 00:40 |
| J1m | k | 00:41 |
| projekt01 | I also have finished the nested menu part, I'm still waiting after the release is branched, then I can checkin this part | 00:41 |
| projekt01 | Then we also have to define a second nested structur for zmi_actions ;-) | 00:42 |
| projekt01 | And decide if we should use it as default. I guess so, then it's really nice to select "Add File" from a nested menu and get rid of own views for that | 00:43 |
| J1m | cool | 00:43 |
| projekt01 | Right now the preferences are the only part which is missing, then we can use the Boston skin as a nice base | 00:44 |
| J1m | srichter's preferences machinery doesn't do what you need? | 00:45 |
| projekt01 | I plan to add preferences for selecting which tree you like to use, this would it make the ZMI real cross browser compatible | 00:45 |
| projekt01 | Yes, I just have to define schemas and at least a view for this | 00:45 |
| projekt01 | But finding time is my only problem.... | 00:46 |
| J1m | I can relate to that. :) | 00:46 |
| projekt01 | Btw. We have our 4. Zope3 Sprint here in switzerland tomorrow | 00:46 |
| J1m | Great. Are you getting good participation? | 00:47 |
| projekt01 | 15 people are comming, hosted at the Fachhochschule Solothurn | 00:47 |
| J1m | Wow! Great! | 00:47 |
| projekt01 | The next Sprint is hosted at the University of Bern and some Sprints are located at the ETH Zurich | 00:47 |
| projekt01 | At the end of this year | 00:48 |
| J1m | cool | 00:48 |
| projekt01 | But it's really hard to get people introduced in Zope3 | 00:48 |
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| J1m | You mean training them? | 00:49 |
| projekt01 | It's quiet complex and most of the poeple need some time to think in adapters then in obejcts | 00:49 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 00:49 |
| projekt01 | A component framework is very different then other OO-frameworks, and most people don't see how easy it is. | 00:51 |
| J1m | It is a paradigm switch. | 00:52 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps we should release a minimal starter release with less packages where people can train and do some first step | 00:52 |
| projekt01 | Something like a starter pack | 00:52 |
| J1m | I tried to give people a gentle start with the tutorial. | 00:53 |
| J1m | A version of the tutorial without the emphasis on testing would probably go a long way. | 00:53 |
| projekt01 | Yes that's Ok, but if they work with the trunk the get lost again | 00:53 |
| J1m | why? | 00:53 |
| projekt01 | It's too much and most people try to understand all at once and get a little frustrated | 00:54 |
| J1m | You can't really teach it in one day. | 00:55 |
| J1m | You need to give people time to do hands-on exercises. | 00:55 |
| projekt01 | We also don't have a real starting point, except your tutorial, perhaps it's also a problem of the missing real "products" | 00:55 |
| J1m | starting with pretty easy exercises. | 00:55 |
| projekt01 | Yes that's true | 00:56 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps some more real "products" in the future will solve the "how to get started" problem | 00:56 |
| J1m | perhaps | 00:57 |
| J1m | I think some people are looking for more of a Z2-stype high-level experience. | 00:57 |
| J1m | We don't have that yet. | 00:57 |
| projekt01 | Right now we only have packages and there is no good way to find out what you can do with this packages | 00:57 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 00:57 |
| projekt01 | I think we are ready to start implementing a CMS based on our library next week. Perhaps that will help too | 00:58 |
| J1m | yup | 00:58 |
| projekt01 | Ok, I send a mail to you if I started the IFile branch and need some help at the end of next week | 01:00 |
| J1m | k | 01:00 |
| projekt01 | Ok I have to finish my talk for tomorrow | 01:01 |
| projekt01 | See you | 01:01 |
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| J1m | later | 01:03 |
| J1m | have fun! | 01:03 |
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| projekt01 | Yes, thanks | 01:04 |
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| dagnachew | hello all zopers | 04:13 |
| dagnachew | can anyone tell me what is the state of zope | 04:14 |
| dagnachew | where are we ? | 04:14 |
| dagnachew | I know zope 2.8 is soon | 04:14 |
| dagnachew | but | 04:14 |
| dagnachew | to Zope 3.0 or to not ? this is the question | 04:14 |
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| regebro | I need to figure out why I get a ForbiddenAttribute error. Is there a non-c version of the security checkers, and if so, how do I enable them? | 13:31 |
| J1m | Better yet, look at the exception. | 13:31 |
| J1m | It tells you the class and the attribute name. | 13:32 |
| J1m | You need to add a security declaration. | 13:32 |
| J1m | for that class and attribute. | 13:32 |
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| regebro | I have a security declaration, and it doesn't help. So, I need to figure out why. | 13:35 |
| regebro | However, I just renamed the c-version, and all is good. ;) | 13:36 |
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| regebro | Mhm.... It's using the checker called "Checker" to check an attribute on an object... That can't reasonably work, since it expects a mapping of what names are allowed... | 13:46 |
| regebro | A mapping that of course is empty, as it's not being provided... | 13:46 |
| J1m | You need to look at your declaration. | 13:52 |
| J1m | It's not being loaded, or | 13:52 |
| J1m | It's not for the right class, or | 13:52 |
| J1m | It's mentioning an interface that doesn't include what you think it does | 13:52 |
| J1m | srichter, ayt? | 13:58 |
| regebro | Hm, ok, so that declaration is supposed to create a checker, that defines up that dictionary that is used to check? | 13:59 |
| J1m | It creates and registers a checker. | 13:59 |
| J1m | The checker uses 2 dictionaries to keep track of the permissions needed to get ans set attributes, | 14:00 |
| J1m | s/ans/and | 14:00 |
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| regebro | Ok, got it, and found the Five bug. Thanks! | 14:01 |
| J1m | Note that declarations are not inherited. | 14:01 |
| regebro | Now, what to do about this is another thing. :) But now I understand why it does not work. :) | 14:01 |
| J1m | (I think I'll change this in 3.2) | 14:01 |
| regebro | Fives allow/require directives doesn't set these up, it only sets up Zope2 declarations. | 14:05 |
| SteveA | declarations will be inherited in 3.2? | 14:12 |
| J1m | That is my plan. | 14:12 |
| J1m | Basically, I want to turn declarations into adapter factories. | 14:12 |
| J1m | so that security declarations are handled by the adapter mechanism. | 14:13 |
| J1m | Is that a problem? | 14:13 |
| SteveA | i don't think that's a problem. i'll think about it a bit. | 14:21 |
| J1m | It's not at all clear what the rational is one way or the other. | 14:22 |
| J1m | I thought a lot about this last fall and couldn't think of a good reason not to inherit. | 14:22 |
| J1m | The only down side is that it is a little implicit. | 14:23 |
| SteveA | in launchpad, what we use for "grants" are looked up as adapters on object, principal-type, name=permission | 14:23 |
| J1m | If I can, I'd like to make the inheritence work separately for each attribute. | 14:23 |
| SteveA | so, taking the authorization system as a whole, i think we're doing that anyway | 14:23 |
| J1m | How so? | 14:24 |
| SteveA | i have a proposal that i need to implement that makes the "grants" get looked up according to the names in the interface it is registered for. | 14:24 |
| SteveA | so, it sounds like we end up in a very similar place. | 14:24 |
| srichter | J1m: I am here noe | 14:24 |
| J1m | SteveA, I didn't follow that. | 14:25 |
| SteveA | for permissions that aren't zope.Public, the authorization policy in launchpad looks up an IAuthorization adapter | 14:26 |
| J1m | srichter, either introspector or apidoc was willing to import modules that were not already imported. | 14:26 |
| srichter | J1m: the class module of API doc was | 14:26 |
| J1m | srichter, is that still so? | 14:26 |
| SteveA | the IAuthorization adapter basically says what abstract set of users can do that thing. | 14:26 |
| srichter | J1m: yes, I am pretty sure | 14:26 |
| J1m | SteveA, so you aren't using permissions? | 14:26 |
| SteveA | the IAuthorization adapters are registered against an interface, the interface of the principal, the name of the permission | 14:27 |
| J1m | srichter, is that necessary? Is there any reason not to limit it to already impoted modules? | 14:27 |
| SteveA | so, i'd have one IAuthorization for doing launchpad.Edit on a Team by email. | 14:27 |
| J1m | SteveA, ah, interesting | 14:27 |
| srichter | yeah, that you might want to introspect an entire source tree | 14:27 |
| SteveA | that says the owners of that team my do so, for example | 14:27 |
| SteveA | J1m: i'm going to be presenting on this system at europython. | 14:28 |
| J1m | SteveA, I'd like to see your paper or slides. I won't be there, unfortunately. | 14:28 |
| srichter | Let's say you are working on a project and only declared the sub-directory to be browsable, but have not done any other ZCML | 14:28 |
| J1m | srichter, we need to make that optional and not enabled by default. | 14:28 |
| srichter | in those cases classes and modules are not loaded but you want to look at them | 14:29 |
| srichter | ok | 14:29 |
| SteveA | J1m: sure. shame you won't be there. | 14:29 |
| J1m | what do you mean "declared the subdirectoy to be browseable"? | 14:29 |
| J1m | SteveA, yes | 14:29 |
| srichter | I guess I could make it a preference | 14:29 |
| J1m | srichter, no, it should be enabled via zcml. | 14:30 |
| srichter | you have to tell the class module browser which project is included | 14:30 |
| J1m | It is a security hole. | 14:30 |
| srichter | so not every arbitrary Python pacakge is browsable | 14:30 |
| J1m | so, by default, are any packages browseable? | 14:30 |
| srichter | the standard Zope packages are | 14:31 |
| srichter | like ZODB, zope, Persistent, etc | 14:31 |
| J1m | By default, no modules should be browsable. | 14:31 |
| J1m | But, you should be able to browse already imported modules without a declaration. | 14:31 |
| srichter | I think I'll rather provide a ZCML directive that allows you to turn on new importing | 14:32 |
| J1m | SteveA, btw, the dates chosen for ep will discourage participation by US citizens with families. | 14:33 |
| J1m | srichter, works for me. | 14:33 |
| J1m | It should be off by default. | 14:33 |
| srichter | yep | 14:33 |
| J1m | I'm in the process of breaking the dependence on zope.app.module. | 14:34 |
| J1m | SteveA, I suspect that the choice of dates for PyCon dsicouraged Europeans, which was unfortunate. | 14:35 |
| srichter | J1m: where is that dependence? | 14:35 |
| SteveA | J1m: what's special about the europython dates? | 14:36 |
| J1m | zope.app.introspector and zope.app.component. | 14:36 |
| SteveA | school holidays? | 14:36 |
| J1m | They fall the week before July 4. | 14:36 |
| J1m | That is a long weekend and a pretty polular holiday in the US. | 14:36 |
| srichter | J1m: but zope.app.introspector is there only for BBB. I am surprised it depends on teh module package | 14:37 |
| J1m | Sort of like Easter in Europe. | 14:37 |
| SteveA | i see. i'll pass that along to the organisers | 14:37 |
| J1m | srichter, well, it does, or rather did. | 14:37 |
| J1m | I heard that they were aware. | 14:37 |
| SteveA | first i've heard of it, and i keep up with most of the meil | 14:38 |
| SteveA | 14:38 | |
| J1m | srichter, zope.app.component tried, but failed to have a soft dependency. | 14:38 |
| J1m | SteveA, ok | 14:38 |
| srichter | J1m: darn, I remember trying that | 14:39 |
| J1m | srichter, in any case, I'm about to check in a fix for those dependencies. | 14:39 |
| srichter | cool | 14:39 |
| J1m | srichter, I send a new email on the status. | 14:41 |
| J1m | time to get ready for f12g | 14:42 |
| srichter | great; I'll have a look at the ftest failure and the import issue | 14:42 |
| srichter | see ya | 14:42 |
| J1m | later | 14:42 |
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| dagnachew | founder of gentoo to work for Microsoft | 16:15 |
| dagnachew | where is Judd Vinet ? | 16:15 |
| dagnachew | we should lock our Judd Vinet | 16:15 |
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