IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2005-08-26

nederhoed_good night00:03
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VolpeHi, I'm trying to being a Container object in Zope3 but when I try to add an instance of my object I get a 'system error' in the traceback in says "object has no attribute '_SampleContainer__data'" (my object inherits from BTreeContainer)06:08
Volpehas anyone got any suggestions?06:08
Volpebeing = build*06:08
VolpeHmm, I guess no ones around :\06:11
bob2the list is a good place to ask06:12
bob2but I'd just be ripping code from srichter's book to begin wit06:12
VolpeI don't have his book (in the mail :D).  I was having a play with it on my own for a while first. :\06:13
bob2it's on the website06:13
bob2an older version, anyway06:13
Volpeit is?06:13
* Volpe feels stupid06:13
bob2from the documentation section06:14
bob2I was surprised to see it on the shelf at Dymocks once, too06:14
Volpeis it in the zope 3 second?06:15
Volpeah found it :D06:16
VolpeIs there a way to 'refresh' a product in zope 3? (like in zope 2)06:24
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bob2holy god I hate subversion09:44
bob2merging the testbrowser branch into 3.1 means having to find the branch point myself09:44
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bob2restarting to pick up changes to resources is a bit crap12:00
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antoinehello worls12:18
antoinei looking for a man how install imagemagick for dev c++12:18
antoinewho knows that12:18
hdimabob2: try 'resourceDirectory'12:21
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Soulravenhmm is there any way to use plone on Z3 ?15:15
philiKONSoulraven, no15:22
philiKONSoulraven, but there is a way to use z3-style software in plone15:22
philiKONby using five15:22
philiKONfive 1.0 is part of zope 2.815:23
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srichterbenji_york: I wonder whether the parsing of all forms and links could be done at once...16:08
srichterother than that I don't see obvious inefficiencies16:08
srichterdo you have have profiling data of what takes long?16:08
benji_yorksrichter, no data at hand, I haven't kept any of it16:21
benji_yorkI'm not quite sure what you mean by "parsing of all forms and links could be done at once"16:21
srichterwell, basically the links are retrieved using pullparser16:22
srichterand the forms using clientform16:22
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srichterthat means the HTML is parsed twice (if you use both)16:22
srichterthe lazy parsing you checked in yesterday helps a lot of course16:23
srichterbtw, I tried the StrictFormParser the other day and it is slower than the standard one16:23
benji_yorkit might be possible, but remember that JJL wants all those packages to not depend on one another (and more than they already do), so any optimizations will have to be stand-alone16:24
benji_yorkre StrictFormParser: hmm, I don't think many people use mechanize in a cpu bound way, that's probably why it's not super-speedy16:25
srichterwhat you basically want is an HTML parser to which you pass events16:25
srichterso basically you have a generic parser and the link code and form code register a method that gets their info16:26
srichteron the other hand, I think we could decouple the parsing from the rest of the code and register our own parser16:26
benji_yorkyep, but like I said, we're somewhat at JJL's mercy about what changes he'll accept...16:27
benji_yorkdon't get me wrong, he's been very plesant to work with, we just have to be consious of it16:27
srichterso we do it non-intrusively16:27
srichterwe just create hooks, so we have the choice to provide a separate hook16:28
srichtersince we are all doing XHTML, I am sure we can get a better XML parser going16:28
srichterI really need another 30-50% speedup if possible16:28
benji_yorkI wouldn't complain16:29
benji_yorkBRB, meeting16:29
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srichterwow, quick meeting16:48
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benji_yorksrichter, well, it's supposed to be a 15 minute meeting, so we actually went a few minutes over :)17:38
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fdrakeis there an IRC channel for Zope 2 + Five?  other than #zope?17:47
mgedminwouldn't that make Zope Seven?17:48
fdrakei can't count that high :-)17:49
yotafdrake: #z3-base ?17:50
fdrakeah, thanks!17:51
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GaryPostersrichter: AYT?17:54
GaryPostercool.  I'd like to make it possible to instantiate a preference with a specific principal17:54
GaryPostersorry preference group17:54
GaryPoster(This is on head, of course)17:55
srichteroh, instead of globally?17:55
GaryPosterthe use case is that I'd like to be able to let some users, e.g. admins view/change users prefs17:56
srichterI see17:56
srichterI have not used prefs in anything else than apidoc17:57
srichterso feel free to change anything around17:57
GaryPosterOK, awesome. thanks :-)17:57
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projekt01GaryPoster, +1, I like to use preferences in one or two month on a productive site.18:24
projekt01GaryPoster, would be nice to have pereferences in the next release18:25
projekt01fdrake, ayt?18:26
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GaryPosterprojekt01: For now, I think I may write this up somewhere instead: the security changes are more than I have time to worry with ATM.  Also, a month later I still have a review of your two text widgets on my plate.  :-( It will still be awhile.  :-( Do you have any interest in contributing the FCK work to either Zope 3 or the FCK project, btw?18:30
fdrakeprojekt01, yes18:32
projekt01GaryPoster, ok for preferences, perhaps I can find time if I need this.18:32
projekt01FCK editor, yes this would be Ok.18:33
projekt01GaryPoster, but we use a special implementation for the filemanager part where you can select images and links.18:33
GaryPosteryes, I remember18:33
GaryPosterIf we can make the pertinent parts pluggable (or even port the filemanager part) that would be ideal.18:34
mgedmintal:content="python:unicode_object.replace('foo', 'bar')" gives me a ForbiddenAttribute error that I didn't expect18:34
mgedminuh, that's because it wasn't unicode_object, but a function_object18:35
mgedminnever mind18:35
projekt01GaryPoster, it's all decoupled already and separated in different packages18:35
projekt01I thkn we just use a marker interface on objects. This marker tells you that there is a adapter for the filemanager18:36
GaryPosterhm, sounds good18:36
projekt01I'm going to vacation next week, are you in hurry with this?18:37
GaryPosterprojekt01: no, but thank you.  Probably won't have real need till October18:37
GaryPosterHave a good vacation! :-)18:38
projekt01What is the prefered location for this package? the z3 trunk?18:38
projekt01Ok, then I can work on this at the next sprint ;-)18:38
projekt01fdrake, Ok, then another question,18:40
projekt01fdrake, is it possible to change the output of and provide the correct order?18:40
srichterbenji_york: wow, rewriting pullparser for libxml2 with xpath support would be so easy :-)18:40
philiKONsrichter, you mean lxml :)18:42
* fdrake is trying to remember again...18:42
srichterno, I mean libxml2 in general18:42
srichterI have not looked at lxml yet, since it will require me to install more libs18:42
projekt01fdrake, utilities/finddeps.py18:43
fdrakeyeah, I found the impl18:43
fdrakewhat do you mean "correct order"?18:44
projekt01fdrake, is the order in the DEPENDENCY.cfg relevant? Where reported by
projekt01the order of the imports in DEPENDENCY.cfg18:44
fdrakeno, DEPENDENCIES.cfg represents a set, not a list18:45
projekt01Ah, cool then I don't have to order them.18:45
fdrakeany ordering is for human readers only18:45
projekt01btw, I just added all SETUP.cfg for the tiks subpackages and everything works again.18:46
fdrakei expect you only needed SETUP.cfg for C extensions18:47
benji_yorksrichter, i doubt JJL would go for that :(18:47
projekt01fdrake, No, after your changes we need it for generate the package-includes ;-)18:48
fdrakeah, that's right18:48
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fdrakewe've been using the site.zcml to include what we want instead of using package-includes/18:50
projekt01Yes, but what do you reference? The old package-includes is gone? You have to build it with build_ext? Or do I get something wrong?18:52
srichterbenji_york: I know, but we only need th hook for it18:52
fdrakewe use <include package="what.we.need"/>18:52
fdrakeinstead of <include package=""/>18:53
benji_yorksrichter, ah, ok, so you'd add a hook to use a different parser, ok, that might pass18:53
fdrakeand that package includes and whatever else it requires18:53
fdrakeso package-includes/ is left for optional things that aren't relevant to the core application, should a customer be so bold.18:54
fdrakeso an instance contains data, zope.conf, and just enough configuration to load the application18:55
fdrakethe application is "assembled" in a package specific to the project18:55
projekt01Ok, how do you assemble them? By hand?18:56
fdrakeeverything is in code, and reproducible18:56
fdrakethe generations framework has an "install" phase that we use18:56
projekt01generations framework?18:57
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projekt01fdrake, How do you "assamble" your workspace for a new project?18:59
fdrakewe create a new Subversion project that includes a build script, and tell it what versions of what packages to use19:00
fdrakethen it loads those19:00
fdrakeproject specific code lives in the new Subversion project19:01
projekt01Ah, Ok, you setup a repository first where contains something like tags of apps in other repositories19:01
fdrakewhen Zope starts, the initial generation installs itself into the database using the phase19:01
projekt01The management of this repos is done by a script19:01
fdrakeusing externals, tarballs, etc.19:02
fdrakethe script only control "building out"19:02
fdrakethere are recipes for different software19:02
projekt01You mean the script will checkout and setup your local workspace?19:02
fdrakeconfiguration files say what to build in what order19:02
fdrakethe process is 1) checkout project, 2) run build script19:03
fdrakethe build script gets the other projects and builds them19:03
fdrakeit also knows how to update them for things in revision control repos19:04
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projekt01Yeah, that sounds good. Will this become a addon for zpkg? Somthing like a dev-zpkg ;-)19:07
fdrakeit's not using zpkg at this time; zpkg really just drives distutils19:08
fdrakethis needs to deal with external C libraries and the like as well19:08
benji_yorkprojekt01, there has been some thought about having the buildout use zpkg metadata, but we haven't figured out exactly what and how yet19:09
fdrakewe'll be looking at ways to incorporate zpkg so we can feed additional information into this, but haven't had time yet19:09
benji_yorkyeah, what fred said19:09
projekt01I think it will be nice to support the "setup project workspace and commit" part in the future with additional tools or scripts.19:11
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fdrakeperhaps; I suspect that could be as little as "svn copy svn+ssh://.../emptyProject svn+ssh://.../myNewProject" though  :-)19:12
projekt01I think about a file in xml or conf format where you can easy describe this checkouts, versions etc. for a project.19:16
projekt01And a application where does the checkouts by the information in this file.19:16
benji_yorkthat seems outside the scope of zpkg (what little I know about it)19:17
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fdrakethat's definately beyond what zpkg was intended to do19:18
fdrakeand similar to what's done in the configuration file for Benji's buildout script19:18
fdrakeit's a INI file, not an XML file, so we can even tell what it says  :-)19:19
projekt01Benji_york, Yes, it has not much to do with zpkg. I describe more a "project relevant workspace assamble tool"19:19
projekt01Is this script available?19:19
benji_yorknot presently19:20
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fdrakenow, one thing that would make it particularly interesting to release the build script to the community would be that we could more easily share build recipes19:22
fdrakeeveryone could contribute recipes if we shared the tool that used them19:22
fdrakesomething to mention to mgmt if/when there's time to discuss open-sourcing the buildout stuff19:23
projekt01Yeah, I think there is defently some need for this in bigger projects.19:24
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fdrakeindeed; we've been using variants on the idea for years, but I think the current incarnation is a lot nicer to deal with19:28
fdrakewe were using a system based on "make" for a long time, and that was painful (IMO), and certainly didn't work on Windws19:29
fdrakethe new system does, which is nice19:29
projekt01+1 from a windows user ;-)19:29
fdrakepoor guy  :-)19:30
projekt01Yes, poor of time to learn this emac or vim stuff ;-)19:31
fdrakeheh.  learning emacs/xemacs/vim is easier than making notepad a good working environment :-)19:32
benji_yorkspeaking as a lover of vim, and a recent (about a year) Linux convert, I will point out that there are some very good non-vim, non-emacs editors for Linux (and some are cross platform so you can use them on Windows too)19:35
fdrakeyeah, there are other editors that are full-featured19:36
projekt01Yup, but then we don't have a developer how is running the tests if I switch to linux ;-)19:37
benji_yorkjust run both Linux and Windows, that's what I prefer19:39
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srichterbenji_york: are you there?20:45
srichterI think mechanize does a mistake by searching for all links20:45
srichterat least for our use case we usually look up only one20:46
benji_yorkok, does that look easy to fix?20:46
srichterso I am going to try to reimplement testbrowser's getLink not supporting regex but use xpath20:46
srichterit's only easy if pullparser returns an iterator and not a list20:47
srichterit does return an iterator20:47
srichterso you could fix it on the mechanize level20:48
srichterbut I also want to see how much faster libxml2 and XPath will be20:48
srichterif it faster, then I can start refactor mechanize accordingly20:48
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srichterI just started developing some high-level HTML analyzation code for ST20:50
srichterand the first thing I did was to support XPath queries :-)20:51
srichterno need for big print statements anymore20:51
fdrakeanalyzation?  "analysis", perhaps?20:51
benji_yorkhmm, interesting... we've been thinking about that for a while, still not sure what form it should take (xpath, xslt, etc.)20:51
srichterxpath for selecting the elements you are interested in reviewing20:52
srichterit is a very short syntax and thus very suitable for tests20:52
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benji_yorksrichter, yep, we've used it for that in Selenium tests, but the interesting question is what should the xpath query *return*20:56
srichtermine returns the serialized version of all found nodes20:58
srichterI cannot return libxml2 nodes easily, since I have to free the document20:59
srichterI'll wait for lxml to return nodes20:59
hazmatsrichter, you can programtically use selenium as well in unit tests in the same manner as mechanize21:02
srichterbut selenium requires a real browser, no?21:05
srichterI don't want to depend on any real browser21:05
srichterand I have heard selenium is very slow21:05
fdrakeselenium is slow, since the browser loads all the "extra" stuff for pages (style sheets, images, etc)21:08
fdrakehowever, it lets you test in a real browser21:08
fdrakewhich means things like JavaScript are interpreted and tested21:09
fdrakethat can be useful if you use JavaScript at all21:09
srichterbenji_york: okay, I have to get ready for hiking; I look at it some more over the weekend; we can definitely optimize mechbrowser's find_link by only looking for the first hit21:09
srichterfdrake: sure, the UI people can do that21:09
srichterbut I just need to ensure system integrety21:09
srichterand some sensible UI21:10
fdrakemust be nice not to be your own UI people  :-)21:12
benji_yorksrichter, ok have a good time21:13
GaryPostersrichter: in case this affects you, John J. Lee hopes to integrate our patches this weekend21:13
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srichterbenji_york: ok, I still have some time now; :-) I just made the link lookup lazy and it decreased my test time from 16.2 secs to 13.6 secs (16%)22:55
srichterI clean it all up a bit and then send you the diff22:55
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GaryPostersrichter: send me the diff, if you could23:09
GaryPoster(that is, send it to gary, rather than or in addition to benji)23:11
srichtergary at zope dot com?23:11
srichterI still get a failure now, so I have to see what happened here23:11
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GaryPosterno prob.  When you can.  John J. Lee said he wanted to do the mergs this weekend.23:12
srichterright, that's the reason I want to get it to you, but it might not happen23:13
srichterI wish mechanize would have tests23:13
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GaryPosterhm, that's not good that it doesn't.  timeline: if you get it to me by 6--that is, in an hour and 45 minutes--that should still give me enough time to get it to him this evening. Earlier would be better, but 16% sounds nice. :-)23:15
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srichterGaryPoster: I have to leave for my trip in 30 mins23:17
GaryPoster:-) ok23:17
srichterso you either have it then or not till Sunday23:17
GaryPosterok.  If Sunday, probably want to save it up with maybe some other accumulated changes for John later.23:18
GaryPoster(if he merges this weekend as he hopes)23:18
srichteris there a way to destroy an iterator?23:21
GaryPosteryou mean for garbage collection?23:22
srichterI basically have to destory the iterator if I found the item I was looking for23:24
srichter(at least that's what I think causes the failure)23:24
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fdrakejust discard it23:25
GaryPosterdel isn't working?23:25
srichterits really strange23:25
srichteranyways, I might have a different solution23:26
GaryPosterBTW, you know we need to stick to Py 2.0.1, right?  At least for ClientForm23:26
fdrakeperhaps something else is hanging on to the iterator?  discarding should be sufficient23:26
srichterfdrake: yes23:26
GaryPosterDon't remember the target for the other packages23:26
srichterthe iterator requires a file23:26
srichterGaryPoster: I am working on mechanize23:27
GaryPosterOK, and the mechanize target is...uh, whenever iterators came around?23:27
GaryPosterSounds right, but I'd have to look it up, not sure23:28
srichterfdrake: I create an iterator that iterates through a file; when I first find the link I return it23:28
srichterthen I call this same iterator again23:28
srichterlooking for a link23:29
srichterthis same link is not found anymore23:29
srichterI dunno why23:29
fdrakeyou create one iterator and iterate twice?23:31
srichterno, I call the function that returns the iterator twice23:32
fdrakewith the same open file object?23:32
srichteractually I am having a generator23:32
srichter(sorry, I always mix the two up)23:32
fdrakethe iterator would start at the current position in the file unless you seek(0) the file23:33
srichteroh, never mind23:33
srichtersome other thing goes wrong23:33
srichterright, we always seek to 023:33
srichteractually, I found the bugger23:35
srichterGaryPoster: pullparser uses iterators23:35
srichterso I think we are fine23:35
GaryPosterI looked up mechanize: it is 2.2.  ClientForm is 2.0.  Didn't look/don't know the others.  They are all separate23:36
srichterGaryPoster: would it be okay for you if I check in the improvement to SVN?23:36
GaryPosterYes, that would be fine23:36
srichterwe have a private copy of mechnize anyways23:36
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srichterok, now I am really gone23:45
srichterhave a great weekend23:45
GaryPosterok, have fun.  You too!23:45
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