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| srichter | projekt01: barely :-) | 00:41 |
|---|---|---|
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| projekt01 | srichter, do you know that the bugtracker depends on the old pluggableauth service? | 00:52 |
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| srichter | projekt01: could be | 00:57 |
| srichter | no clue | 00:57 |
| srichter | I have not worked on it for a long time | 00:57 |
| projekt01 | bugtracker uses the getPrincipals method in the user vocabulary which doesn't exist in PAU | 00:58 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 00:58 |
| projekt01 | srichter, does SchoolTool have a widget or vocabulary for lookup principals? | 01:00 |
| srichter | well, we can always get to the ST application and from their to our persons | 01:01 |
| srichter | I think we have a utility that uses our persons to provide a principal source | 01:01 |
| srichter | re bugtracker: Oh, I see; right it should use the source instead | 01:03 |
| srichter | btw, I like ST's approach in this respect | 01:04 |
| srichter | we can alsways get to the application root and go from there | 01:04 |
| srichter | it's very easy | 01:04 |
| projekt01 | And what's about local PAU? | 01:05 |
| projekt01 | Ah, you mean the site (application root) | 01:05 |
| srichter | yes | 01:06 |
| srichter | we don't care about the local PAU that much, since we know that all people provided by the local PAU are also listed in the person container | 01:07 |
| projekt01 | person container? You mean in ST? | 01:07 |
| srichter | yes | 01:08 |
| projekt01 | Ok, it really turns me crazy to use this queriables. | 01:08 |
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| projekt01 | Now I go to implement different principal widgets and vocabularies which will render a better UI for selecting principals. | 01:09 |
| srichter | yeah, I don't quite understand them yet either | 01:09 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 01:09 |
| srichter | I think for small amounts of users we will eventually want to support listing them all | 01:10 |
| srichter | and have a JS-based filter or something | 01:10 |
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| projekt01 | I think of a tree like UI where all IAuthentication utilities are listed and principals as child nodes. This would make it expandable. | 01:12 |
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| newpers | philiKON: thank you so much for you post -- http://www.z3lab.org/sections/blogs/philipp-weitershausen/2005_12_14_ruby-on-rails-zope-on | 02:29 |
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| jfmoxley | changes in my css should be reflected immediately, and not require a zope restart, right? | 05:10 |
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| adamSummers | morning | 06:36 |
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| zagy | moin | 08:55 |
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| romanofski | moin | 08:59 |
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| tahara | Hi.I want to join bugday tommorow, but I don't know how to find important issue in collector... | 11:13 |
| tahara | Does anyone where is todo-list or something? | 11:19 |
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| Theuni | tahara: important issues in the collector are marked "critical" | 11:55 |
| Theuni | if there are no critical issues, you can just move on to "urgent" or "normal" bugs. | 11:56 |
| Theuni | (for me, the bugday is already today ;)) | 11:56 |
| tahara | I see, thanks! | 11:57 |
| tahara | I'll try. | 11:57 |
| tahara | Ah, the bugday is today for me too. | 12:00 |
| Theuni | ;) | 12:00 |
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| SteveA | is there a bug day happening? | 12:06 |
| SteveA | Theuni: is the bug day today? | 12:08 |
| Theuni | looks like it | 12:10 |
| Theuni | i just noticed it this morning that stefan send an announcement yesterday | 12:10 |
| Theuni | i'll try to spend some time later fixing some stuff | 12:10 |
| * Theuni works fulltime on the common criteria now | 12:11 | |
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| SteveA | that's dedication | 12:12 |
| projekt01 | Theuni, did you see my answer about Residual Information Protection? | 12:20 |
| Theuni | did you see mine? :) | 12:25 |
| projekt01 | Yes, it's a answer to yours. | 12:25 |
| Theuni | i mean: did you see my answer to your answer? ;) | 12:25 |
| projekt01 | no | 12:26 |
| projekt01 | Theuni, Ok, I see, good usecases. I think it's a good idea to use a identifier for principals and make sure that they get information from previous settings because of the naming. | 12:31 |
| projekt01 | We really have o add something like that. | 12:31 |
| Theuni | i'll make more in-depth proposal for that in january | 12:32 |
| projekt01 | Your question about sublocation: Take a look at zope.app.container.contained.py dispatchToSublocations() | 12:33 |
| projekt01 | Theuni, sounds good to me. | 12:34 |
| * Theuni looks | 12:36 | |
| projekt01 | Theuni, btw, are you interested to join a sprint early next year in switzerland or germany? | 12:36 |
| Theuni | the answer is: maybe | 12:37 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 12:37 |
| Theuni | i'm working on the certification during the whole of january | 12:37 |
| Theuni | if it's in there, i might have time | 12:38 |
| Theuni | otherwise it's likely that i'm in some customer project | 12:38 |
| Theuni | and i'll be at pycon in february ... | 12:38 |
| agroszer | projekt01: when, where? | 12:38 |
| projekt01 | agroszer, we don't know the date right now, we only decide to hold sprint. Perhaps together with the Neckar sprinters. | 12:40 |
| projekt01 | agroszer, are you interested? | 12:40 |
| agroszer | sorry, I'm a bit sleepy right now :-) | 12:40 |
| agroszer | yes, of course | 12:40 |
| projekt01 | np | 12:40 |
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| projekt01 | cool | 12:41 |
| agroszer | I'd like to improve my Z3 knowledge | 12:41 |
| agroszer | and worst case latest then we could do the workflow brainstorming | 12:42 |
| projekt01 | agroszer, yes, I think that's a good sprint topic. | 12:42 |
| projekt01 | agroszer, btw, where are you living? | 12:43 |
| Theuni | hmm. | 12:43 |
| agroszer | does Plattensee tell you something? | 12:43 |
| Theuni | i wonder whether dispatchToSublocations has to be called explicitly although it is subscribed to the IObjectMovedEvent? | 12:44 |
| projekt01 | germany or austria, I'm not sure | 12:44 |
| agroszer | lake Balaton is in Hungary (for the English) | 12:44 |
| projekt01 | Ah, ok | 12:45 |
| projekt01 | Theuni, it's implicit called as a event subscriber. | 12:45 |
| Theuni | projekt01: i see ... so why does the doctest call it explicitly then? | 12:46 |
| Theuni | shouldn't it just do event.notify ? | 12:46 |
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| projekt01 | Theuni, doctests do not use the right setup most the time. (which I really dislike) | 12:49 |
| Theuni | do you mean "right" or "real" or "complete" ? | 12:49 |
| Theuni | because if i make him use notify, the result is slightly different ... | 12:49 |
| Theuni | hmm | 12:49 |
| projekt01 | I mean the same setup like used via the ZCML registration. | 12:50 |
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| Theuni | well | 13:17 |
| Theuni | that would be too much for unit tests | 13:17 |
| Theuni | that's what functional tests are for imho | 13:17 |
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| mgedmin | I think I just found a bug in the <viewlet> directive handler | 13:22 |
| mgedmin | if you specify only the template, but do not specify class, extra attributes are not passed to SimpleViewletClass() | 13:22 |
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| projekt01 | mgedmin, is there a need for extra attributes for the default class? | 13:34 |
| mgedmin | projekt01, there is | 13:36 |
| mgedmin | the viewlet manager may use them | 13:36 |
| mgedmin | for sorting | 13:36 |
| mgedmin | the page template may use them | 13:36 |
| mgedmin | my use case was the sorting one | 13:37 |
| projekt01 | Ah, right | 13:37 |
| projekt01 | We where thinking of a out-of the box weight support for viewlets, but didn't implement it. | 13:38 |
| mgedmin | it would make sense, I think | 13:39 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps we can use a different default class with weight support if the weight attribute used. | 13:39 |
| projekt01 | ...if no custom class is given | 13:39 |
| mgedmin | I think relying on __cmp__ is not the answer | 13:39 |
| mgedmin | what if you get two viewlets, where one defines __cmp__ to look into weight attributes (if they exist) | 13:40 |
| mgedmin | and the other defines __cmp__ to look into title attributes (if they exist) | 13:40 |
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| mgedmin | which one gets used for which comparison? | 13:40 |
| mgedmin | it's a matter of accident, I think | 13:40 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 13:40 |
| mgedmin | I'd prefer if there was a OrderedViewletManager defined in zope.viewlet | 13:40 |
| projekt01 | +1, me too | 13:41 |
| mgedmin | there is something very much like it in the boston skin, isn't there? | 13:41 |
| projekt01 | and support a weight in the viewlet (required=False) directive | 13:41 |
| projekt01 | Yes, I think I implemented this in the Boston skin, but didn't implement a generic pattern for the viewlet directive | 13:42 |
| mgedmin | this is what I wrote for Schooltool: http://zope3.pastebin.com/466479 | 13:43 |
| mgedmin | actually, 'weight' would be a better name than 'order' | 13:43 |
| mgedmin | "heavier" viewlets would sink below "lighter" ones | 13:44 |
| projekt01 | Yeah, cool, this is what we need. I guess we can use such a class if a weight attribute is defined as default if no custom class is given. | 13:44 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure I follow | 13:45 |
| mgedmin | that class is the viewlet manager | 13:45 |
| mgedmin | the order/weight attribute would be defined in a viewlet | 13:45 |
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| mgedmin | you cannot choose a default class for the manager by looking at viewlets registered for that manager | 13:45 |
| projekt01 | Ah, and the weight (additional attribute) isn't dispatched to the manager right now? | 13:46 |
| mgedmin | huh? | 13:46 |
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| projekt01 | sorry, if I get it right, the viewlet defines a weight, and the manager sorts on this attribute. How do you make sure that the weight get added to the viewlet? | 13:47 |
| mgedmin | look at the code | 13:47 |
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| mgedmin | if there is no weight attribute, I sort by title | 13:47 |
| mgedmin | if there is neither weight nor title, I raise an exception and tell the developer the name of the viewlet | 13:48 |
| mgedmin | so that the developer can fix his zcml | 13:48 |
| projekt01 | Ah, I got it, the viewlet directive supports extra (custom) attributes | 13:48 |
| mgedmin | yes | 13:48 |
| mgedmin | only that support is a little bit broken | 13:49 |
| mgedmin | and I just fixed it | 13:49 |
| mgedmin | and wrote a test | 13:49 |
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| mgedmin | should I mention the bugfix in CHANGES.txt as well? | 13:49 |
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| projekt01 | Cool, yes a note about this would be good, perhaps srichter is looking for this since we didn't implement it. | 13:50 |
| mgedmin | patch here: http://zope3.pastebin.com/466484 | 13:51 |
| mgedmin | I have to run now | 13:51 |
| projekt01 | mgedmin, Thanks a lot | 13:51 |
| mgedmin | I can commit this after I come back | 13:51 |
| projekt01 | cool | 13:51 |
| mgedmin | can I backport this to the 3.2 branch as well? | 13:51 |
| projekt01 | I guess so | 13:51 |
| mgedmin | great | 13:52 |
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| Theuni | J1m: what is the idiom "break glass"? | 14:28 |
| J1m | emergency | 14:29 |
| J1m | For example, here many public buildings have manual fire alarms that require breaking a glass cover before they are pulled. | 14:30 |
| Theuni | ah right. | 14:30 |
| J1m | Do you have these in Germany? | 14:31 |
| Theuni | yes | 14:32 |
| Theuni | i don't remember a special name for the glass itself | 14:32 |
| J1m | Here, these thinsg typically have signs with them that say: "in case of emergency, break class". | 14:34 |
| J1m | Thus the idiom. | 14:34 |
| * J1m really shouldn't use idioms in these sorts of discussions. | 14:34 | |
| tarek | "in case of emergency, break class" nice quote to insert in a module header :-) | 14:41 |
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| Theuni | ah. J1m, we have this idiom too, but we don't use it as a noun :) | 14:41 |
| Theuni | J1m: Hmm. Is it possible you want to solve two issues with the ZODB permission storage? | 14:45 |
| * J1m tries never to be unduly constrained by limits of grammer, spelling or vocabulary. :) | 14:45 | |
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| J1m | Not in practice. Just dreaming out loud. | 14:46 |
| Theuni | J1m: i see that point one and two would work for a while. Not beeing constrained by vocabulary would be ... kind of very isolating. | 14:47 |
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| J1m | No, it's liberating. ;) | 14:48 |
| Theuni | two sides of one coin ;) | 14:49 |
| projekt01 | Jim, is the global principal registry queryable? | 14:52 |
| J1m | yes | 14:53 |
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| projekt01 | does the pluggableauth package get removed sometime? | 14:54 |
| J1m | I'm not sure what you men. Any authentication system is optional. | 14:55 |
| * Theuni needs to get packaging stuff for the office move next week ... | 14:55 | |
| projekt01 | J1m, what's the generic way to get principal's information (for build a vocabulary) which will work for all IAuthentication utilities | 14:56 |
| J1m | The generic way, is to use a search-and-select UI. | 14:57 |
| J1m | The most generic way, if to delegate to each principal source to provide it's own search-and-select, as I did. This tends to provide an unusable UI. | 14:58 |
| J1m | IMO, the best way, is to assume that there is a simple string-bases searching API, providing adapters for eacg principal source. | 14:59 |
| J1m | Then you can provide a simple string-based search-and-select UI. | 14:59 |
| J1m | IMO, this is best if it works, | 14:59 |
| projekt01 | I agree on the unusable UI, I like to implement a different UI, but it's to hard to get the right principal information right now. | 14:59 |
| projekt01 | Can we support a simpler API for get the principal information? | 15:00 |
| J1m | We've had customers that wanted a much richer UI for serachingg their specific database. Then we've provides a specific UI for them. | 15:00 |
| J1m | projekt01, I don't think we need one. | 15:01 |
| J1m | I've been able to provide a simple UI based on what's there now. | 15:01 |
| projekt01 | Why do we not provide a method getPrincipalInformation at the IAuthentication level like PrincipalFolder is implementing? | 15:04 |
| projekt01 | This would make lookup prncipal information much easier | 15:04 |
| J1m | What information? | 15:05 |
| J1m | This cannot be standardized. | 15:05 |
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| J1m | The best way, IMO, is to provide access to a searchable string. | 15:06 |
| J1m | This can be done via adaptation. | 15:06 |
| projekt01 | what do you mean with a searchable string? | 15:07 |
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| J1m | A string that could be matched by searches. | 15:07 |
| projekt01 | which searches? | 15:08 |
| J1m | Searches for principals. | 15:08 |
| projekt01 | Ah, I have a different use case | 15:09 |
| projekt01 | I like to provide a vocabulary containing all principals from a IAuthentication utility. There is no need for search because the result has to contain all principals | 15:10 |
| J1m | OK, I don't have that use case. | 15:10 |
| projekt01 | This uscase is only to implement via the search queryable part right now. Which is very bad for performanc | 15:11 |
| J1m | In any production application I dal with, there are too many principals to present alll of them. | 15:11 |
| J1m | In any production application I deal with, there are too many principals to present all of them. | 15:11 |
| projekt01 | We provide only a searchable API right now for IAuthentication. What's about if I like to implement a different search on full results? | 15:12 |
| J1m | Then you are missguided. | 15:12 |
| projekt01 | Do you mean I should not do this? | 15:13 |
| J1m | Yes | 15:13 |
| J1m | It certainly should not be part of IAuthentication. | 15:13 |
| J1m | Or IPrincipalSource. | 15:14 |
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| J1m | I would not object to IIterableAuthentication or IIterablePrincipalSource, but I would absolutely not require or expect all authentication or principal source utilities to also provide this interface. | 15:15 |
| projekt01 | I guess I will implement a adapter where is able to get all principal informations like title, login and id where every future principal must support. | 15:17 |
| projekt01 | And use this adapter for my need. Then I can implement this adapter for future IAuthentication implementations | 15:17 |
| projekt01 | So then I can implement a tree like UI for IAuthentication | 15:18 |
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| projekt01 | It's really to complex the built in search concept for straight forward concepts. | 15:19 |
| J1m | It's actually not that complex at all if you go with a simple string search. | 15:19 |
| J1m | The user has a single text area to type in a string. | 15:20 |
| J1m | Note that if you don't have many users, you can even arrange that typing in an empty strings gets all users. | 15:20 |
| J1m | I agree that the UI I provided in Z3 sucks. | 15:22 |
| J1m | I was badgered (by someone at ZC) into overgeneralization. | 15:23 |
| J1m | Note that I plan to release the simple text-bases searaching facility. | 15:23 |
| J1m | We've been planning to release our "Sharing" authorization system, which includes this, for some time. | 15:24 |
| projekt01 | Note the batching is also a concept for break down large results. Search is not the only way. | 15:25 |
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| J1m | (It's been hard to find time to get this released, especially since there have been a number of dependency issues to sort out and we've continued making enhabcements to it.) | 15:25 |
| faassen | hm, I am getting this error and I'm at a loss on how to debug it..it happens somewhere deep when I call a page template... | 15:26 |
| faassen | File "/home/faassen/working/doclib/z31/lib/python/zope/interface/adapter.py", line 261, in unsubscribe | 15:26 |
| faassen | del self.dependents[dependent] | 15:26 |
| faassen | File "/usr/lib/python2.4/weakref.py", line 216, in __delitem__ | 15:26 |
| faassen | del self.data[ref(key)] | 15:26 |
| faassen | KeyError: <weakref at 0xb4374b1c; to 'LocalSurrogate' at 0xb431764c> | 15:26 |
| J1m | projekt01, no, batching doesn't solve the problem at all. | 15:26 |
| faassen | that't the end of a long traceback. anyone have a clue? I just extracted a large piece of code from the document library (which doesn't ahve this).. | 15:26 |
| faassen | but it seems to have something to do with authentication. | 15:26 |
| faassen | hm, wait, no, it seems to have to do something with language support. | 15:26 |
| faassen | target_language = negotiator.getLanguage(langs, context) | 15:27 |
| faassen | File "/home/faassen/working/doclib/z31/lib/python/zope/i18n/negotiator.py", line 40, in getLanguage | 15:27 |
| faassen | envadapter = IUserPreferredLanguages(env) | 15:27 |
| faassen | is somewhat higher up.. | 15:27 |
| faassen | that gets triggered by the ZPT i18n engine, but I don't do any i18n. | 15:27 |
| faassen | in fact, there's no teven a page template registered by my app for what I try to view. ugh. | 15:27 |
| J1m | faassen, this seems vaguely familiar. | 15:27 |
| J1m | :) | 15:27 |
| J1m | What version of Zope? | 15:27 |
| faassen | well, that's what I was hoping for. 3.1 | 15:28 |
| faassen | let me check the exact version, I think 3.1 proper though. | 15:28 |
| projekt01 | J1m, ok, thanks for the hints | 15:28 |
| faassen | yup, 3.1.0 proper. | 15:28 |
| faassen | so somehow it's not doing proper in some kind of fallback default page tempalte. | 15:29 |
| faassen | as it works fine in case I do provide my own templates. no big deal for me right now, it's just rather scary. | 15:29 |
| faassen | localsurrogates? weak references? ugh. :) | 15:29 |
| faassen | goes back to the theme that the page template engine should not do any calling into the Zope api. | 15:30 |
| faassen | J1m: hey, you should go beyond one entry in your blog. :) | 15:31 |
| faassen | J1m: philipp is outracing you! | 15:31 |
| J1m | Yeah | 15:32 |
| faassen | J1m: did you see the recent back and forth between me and Paul and Ian Bicking and Jeff Shell and such? | 15:33 |
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| J1m | no | 15:36 |
| J1m | where? | 15:36 |
| benji | faassen, I did, interesting discussion | 15:36 |
| faassen | J1m: I'll dump some links on you. | 15:38 |
| J1m | k | 15:38 |
| faassen | Paul's fairy tale ('in the beginning, the world was nice') http://radio.weblogs.com/0116506/2005/12/15.html#a380 | 15:38 |
| faassen | my followup | 15:38 |
| faassen | http://faassen.n--tree.net/blog/view/weblog/2005/12/15/0 | 15:38 |
| faassen | Ian Bicking's followup to mine | 15:38 |
| faassen | http://blog.ianbicking.org/agile-content-development.html | 15:39 |
| faassen | Jeff Shell's followup to the discussion | 15:39 |
| faassen | http://griddlenoise.blogspot.com/2005/12/agility-versus-agility-in-zope.html | 15:39 |
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| faassen | and my followup to myself :) | 15:39 |
| faassen | http://faassen.n--tree.net/blog/view/weblog/2005/12/15/1 | 15:39 |
| faassen | benji: any thoughts? | 15:40 |
| benji | strangely enough, I pretty much agree with everyone :) | 15:40 |
| faassen | benji: well, me too. :) | 15:41 |
| faassen | benji: I don't think we're all on different pages. | 15:41 |
| faassen | benji: just different perspectives. | 15:41 |
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| benji | Z3 is /so/ nice for "pure Python" development, OTOH, I think it's very important to empower "power users" to extend systems we build in well defined, but useful ways | 15:41 |
| faassen | benji: I just thought this was a nice opportunity to create some community awareness of this issue. it sort of got off the radar, then recently Plone people wanted to know where customization was gone in Five. | 15:41 |
| faassen | and I thought we'd better step back for a bit. | 15:41 |
| benji | yep | 15:42 |
| faassen | since my blog is now also on planet.plone.org lots of plone people are hopefully seeing this stuff. | 15:42 |
| benji | I feel like there is some mechanism that'll enable this, but not sure exactly what it is | 15:43 |
| faassen | I've been vaguely considering the following simple mechanism.. (in the context of five, but applies to z3 as well) | 15:43 |
| faassen | (include lots of handwaving please in this discussion) | 15:43 |
| faassen | like, someone registers a page template through some zcml directive. or a resource like a css file. | 15:44 |
| faassen | now, customizer comes in, and says, this is great, I just want to tweak it here and there. | 15:44 |
| faassen | so they go to this web interface. | 15:44 |
| faassen | and there's a list of all the um..page templates registered in the package..handwave how we find this out. | 15:44 |
| faassen | and he clicks on it, and he sees the thing in a textarea. | 15:44 |
| faassen | and he can edit it. if he saves, the page template is overridden, that is, for that site.. | 15:44 |
| faassen | the page template is just registered in memory like the ones are now. | 15:45 |
| faassen | no need to store the compiled version in the ZODB or anything. | 15:45 |
| faassen | so the registration is in fact the same. | 15:45 |
| faassen | it's just finding the code in some other place. | 15:45 |
| faassen | I think that limits all kinds of growths, as you could present this as 'you are now modifying component X' | 15:46 |
| faassen | and if you want to move this to filesystem development, you simply dump that text to the filesystem and register that instead. | 15:46 |
| faassen | but there's already a lot of tweakability. | 15:46 |
| faassen | anyway, it's not a very great idea, but it might be controllable while still giving enough power. | 15:46 |
| faassen | at least not whole skin directories are being copied, no python code is copied, etc. | 15:47 |
| faassen | and the page template code is the same as it'd be on the filesystem. | 15:47 |
| faassen | so it's easy to move it, then refactor it, etc. | 15:47 |
| faassen | then again, it might not be too different from the CMF skin model after all. | 15:48 |
| benji | it sounds like the basic mechanism would be TTW changes of component registration, with some nice UI to help specific tasks like ZPT editing | 15:48 |
| J1m | I love this discussion, this topic, and those links. | 15:48 |
| J1m | Unfortunately, I don't have time to have this discussion or read all of these links now. | 15:48 |
| J1m | I fear there is going to be a lot of work necessary to get the next beta out this weekend. | 15:49 |
| J1m | The most important thing facing us ATM is succeeding at time-based releases. | 15:49 |
| J1m | I'm working on twisted issues. | 15:50 |
| benji | J1m, is it preferred that bug fixes be applied to the 3.2 branch first and the merged to the trunk, or the other way 'round? | 15:50 |
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| J1m | It would be helpful if someone would go through the new issues and decide if any are critical, so that we know what we have to work on. | 15:51 |
| faassen | J1m: sure, read the stuff later. | 15:51 |
| J1m | benji, the right answer is probably 3.2 first, but I don't think it matters at this point. | 15:51 |
| J1m | faassen, will do. | 15:52 |
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| J1m | benji, for some reason, I prefer working on the trunk and porting from there. | 15:52 |
| J1m | I should probably get over that. | 15:52 |
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| J1m | If we every start using svnmerge, then it will be compelling to do bug fixes on the release branch and use svnmerge to bring them to the trunk. | 15:53 |
| *** J1m changes topic to "Bug day today! | logs available at http://zope3.pov.lt/irclogs/" | 15:53 | |
| J1m | Any volunteers to classify the issues? | 15:54 |
| faassen | hm, how would I do that? | 15:55 |
| faassen | I'm a bit scared of the zope.org issue tracker. | 15:55 |
| J1m | Go through the issues posted since the beta. | 15:56 |
| J1m | Mark the onces that need to be fixed as critical. | 15:56 |
| faassen | is there an easy way to get the issues posted since the beta? | 15:56 |
| faassen | also, I'm not sure my user (faassen) can mark anything. | 15:57 |
| faassen | I don't know whether I have the rights. | 15:57 |
| J1m | I would jump to the end and work my way backward. | 15:58 |
| faassen | okay, I'll do that. | 15:58 |
| J1m | You are now a supporter. Congratulations! | 15:58 |
| faassen | J1m: whee. :) | 15:58 |
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| faassen | after all these years, I support Zope! :) | 15:58 |
| * faassen tries to find the little twiddly buttons to mark issues that should appear. | 15:59 | |
| J1m | When viewing an issue, to change it's importance, use the edit link. | 15:59 |
| * faassen tries to find the 'edit' link. hm.. | 16:00 | |
| J1m | at the top of the page, next to follow up etc. | 16:00 |
| faassen | yeah, didn't find it. logging out and in, see whether that helps. | 16:00 |
| J1m | Maybe I need to make you a manager, but I didn't think so. | 16:00 |
| J1m | shoudkn't matter. | 16:00 |
| J1m | You have to be looking at an issue. | 16:01 |
| faassen | trying again. | 16:01 |
| faassen | logging out and in shouldn't matter, but somehow it did matter. dunno, some caching going on. | 16:02 |
| faassen | now I have an 'edit' link. | 16:02 |
| J1m | cool | 16:02 |
| * J1m really away for a while, breakfast | 16:03 | |
| J1m | Thanks! | 16:03 |
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| J1m | ah, faassen, wrt to the traceback | 16:23 |
| J1m | This is fixed in 3.2. :) | 16:23 |
| J1m | It happens when the same specification appears more than once in a specification's bases. | 16:23 |
| J1m | for example, using alsoProvides more than ince with the same interface. | 16:24 |
| J1m | s/ince/once | 16:27 |
| benji | just so I don't step on anyone's toes, I'm working on XXX cleanup | 16:42 |
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| benji | J1m, there is an XXX note on IFormAPI's validate method that it should be renamed something like "sumbitted"; here's your chance | 16:46 |
| J1m | Hey, you are trying to credit me with a non-existent misspelling, | 16:48 |
| J1m | Thanks. | 16:49 |
| benji | :) | 16:49 |
| J1m | I don't care. | 16:49 |
| benji | just asking if you really want it changed or not | 16:49 |
| J1m | I don't remember typing that xxx | 16:49 |
| benji | oh, I guess that answers that | 16:49 |
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| faassen | J1m: sorry, I just got phone call etc, so haven't been able to do much with issuse so far. | 17:17 |
| J1m | anything you do would be appreciated. | 17:17 |
| J1m | Are you going to PyCon? :) | 17:17 |
| faassen | J1m: no, unlikely. | 17:18 |
| J1m | dang | 17:18 |
| faassen | why is everyone asking me whether I got o PyCon, SteveA was too. | 17:18 |
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| faassen | I just noticed on the silva channel, an hour before. | 17:18 |
| J1m | Because we're all going to sprint and wish you could join us. | 17:19 |
| faassen | well, I'll think it over. | 17:19 |
| J1m | And Dallas is so close to Rotterdam | 17:19 |
| faassen | wasn't planning on going. | 17:19 |
| faassen | true, very close. | 17:20 |
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| faassen | I've actually been in dallas. :) | 17:20 |
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| faassen | I've been all over Texas. Houston, Austin, Dallas. | 17:20 |
| J1m | I wasn't planning to go either, but people kept asking me about sprinting there. :) | 17:20 |
| * faassen grins. | 17:20 | |
| mgedmin | does anyone else see a failure in test testNotFound (zope.app.debugskin.ftests.DebugSkinTests) | 17:21 |
| mgedmin | ? | 17:21 |
| benji | not me, mgedmin | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | I'll revert my bugfix and rerun the tests then | 17:22 |
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| mgedmin | I see that failure in a clean Zope3 trunk checkout | 17:28 |
| J1m | does the test fail when run by itself? | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | yep | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | python2.4 ./test.py -f -pv -s zope.app.debugskin | 17:30 |
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| J1m | I'll try in a minute | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | whoa, never mind | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | looks like I have strange pathnames in .pyc files | 17:32 |
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| mgedmin | yep, that's the cause | 17:32 |
| J1m | ah | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | that test wants to see a line of source code in a traceback in a html page | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | but because of invalid paths in my .pyc files, the traceback generator is unable to find the source file | 17:33 |
| * mgedmin runs find -name '*.pyc'|xargs rm && python2.4 ./test.py -f -pv -s zope.app.debugskin | 17:33 | |
| J1m | mgedmin, should consider using the -exec option in find. | 17:34 |
| mgedmin | xargs is easier to type, and faster | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | find|grep|xargs is a flexible pattern | 17:35 |
| SteveA | not many char 0 in .pyc file names | 17:48 |
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| projekt01 | J1m, are you really sure that the PrincipalRegistry is queryable? | 18:01 |
| J1m | yes | 18:02 |
| J1m | see getPrincipals | 18:02 |
| projekt01 | I found the ISourceQueryView view but the ISourceQueriables isn't implemented. | 18:03 |
| projekt01 | It seems only to work because there is a ISourceQueryView view registered, but that doesn't mean it's implemented. | 18:05 |
| J1m | If you are going to ignore my answers, I won't bother providing them. | 18:05 |
| projekt01 | Sorry ,I can't follow you, getPrincipals isn't a method of the ISorceQueriables interface ??? | 18:07 |
| J1m | no, it's a method of a principal registry. | 18:08 |
| J1m | You can write an adapter using it. | 18:08 |
| projekt01 | Yes, but you told the PrinciplaRegistry is queryable (perhaps my question was incorrect) I was looking for a the ISourceQueriable adapter by asking "is queryable". | 18:11 |
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| projekt01 | Ok, I see the PrincipalRegistry doesn't provide ISourceQueryable but we register a view providing ISourceQueryView and this will make it working and let's the PrincipalRegistry act as it would be ISourceQueryable | 18:15 |
| J1m | yup | 18:16 |
| projekt01 | Ok, important to know for a testing setup where includes the PrincipalRegistry and a local PAU ;-) | 18:16 |
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| J1m | mkerrin, ayt? | 20:27 |
| mkerrin | J1m: hi | 20:28 |
| J1m | Hi | 20:28 |
| J1m | I was about to look at the code, but you are here. :) | 20:29 |
| J1m | I'm guessing/hoping that the wsgi gets output from the app and queues it for deleivery. | 20:29 |
| J1m | I'm guessing that this code doesn't do the I/O. | 20:30 |
| J1m | and thus isn't blocked by it. | 20:30 |
| J1m | If this is the case, then the wsgi output processing should happen very fast and should not be held up by the network I/O. | 20:31 |
| mkerrin | I am not following - so the output isn't an issue?? | 20:32 |
| J1m | I'm trying to figure that out. | 20:33 |
| J1m | Unfortunately, I'm not good at reading twisted code. | 20:33 |
| J1m | If what I said above is true, then I don't think that output is an issue. | 20:33 |
| J1m | We don't want the app thread to spend time doing I/O. | 20:34 |
| J1m | If write in WSGIHandler queues data that is actually send by the reactor, then it doesn't have to wait for I/O. | 20:35 |
| J1m | Do you undertand what the write method is doing? | 20:36 |
| J1m | (This raises another issue ...) | 20:38 |
| mkerrin | kind off - the callFromThread method calls seem to tell me that we are still going to be in the same thread has the application (even though Zope has finished processing) until all the data has being written to the socket stream. Although I will still have to write some kind of code to test for this | 20:38 |
| J1m | I have a feeling that this is too big to deal with before the beta. | 20:40 |
| J1m | I really can't help much because this code really doesn't mean much to me. | 20:41 |
| * mgedmin fixing issue 497 | 20:41 | |
| * mgedmin found a commented out functional test for it in zope.app.publication | 20:42 | |
| * mgedmin happy | 20:42 | |
| mkerrin | When is the beta planned | 20:42 |
| J1m | we hope to make it this weekend, or Monday latest. | 20:43 |
| J1m | We are hoping that this will be the last beta. | 20:43 |
| J1m | We really want to release 3.2 this month. | 20:43 |
| mkerrin | right - so this isn't looking good for twisted at the moment | 20:44 |
| J1m | Nope. | 20:45 |
| J1m | OK, I suggest that flailing would be bad. | 20:45 |
| J1m | So let's not flail. | 20:45 |
| benji | -1 on flailing | 20:46 |
| benji | I've done enough of that for all of us today | 20:46 |
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| mkerrin | But wouldn't what I said in the email work - if we had a threadless wsgi handler then the glue between twisted and zope can handle the threads | 20:47 |
| J1m | Did you see the discussion on the web sig yesterday? | 20:47 |
| J1m | It isn't possible to write thread-management WSGI middleware. | 20:48 |
| mkerrin | ah - looking that up now | 20:49 |
| J1m | I think the best thing is to step back, state the requirements clearly, and hope I can convince others. | 20:49 |
| J1m | That will take time. | 20:49 |
| J1m | Time we don't have for this release. | 20:49 |
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| J1m | (I hope I don't come to regret endorsing wsgi.) | 20:52 |
| mkerrin | J1m: I am going to have to think more about over the weekend - 7pm on a Friday is a bad time for this | 21:14 |
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| J1m | :) | 21:14 |
| J1m | Fair enough | 21:14 |
| J1m | Next week, I'm going to pursue this issue on the web-sig list. | 21:14 |
| J1m | I'm going to try to set out the following requiremets for WSGI servers: | 21:15 |
| J1m | - don't make applications wait for network I/O. | 21:15 |
| J1m | - Don't hold large inputs or outputs in memory. | 21:15 |
| J1m | (I fear that the second is actually prohibited by the PEP.) | 21:16 |
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| J1m | I don't really want to spend any more time on this now. I need to concentrate on the beta. | 21:17 |
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| mkerrin | fair enough | 21:20 |
| mkerrin | by the way - issue 521 in the collector should now be fixed. James Knight committed a fix to the Twisted code so read(-1) now returns all of the stream | 21:22 |
| J1m | k | 21:23 |
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| J1m | mkerrin, did he commit the releases/2.1.x branch? | 21:24 |
| J1m | mkerrin, did he commit the fix on the releases/2.1.x branch? | 21:25 |
| J1m | ah, he did :) | 21:26 |
| J1m | cool | 21:26 |
| J1m | I'll update the external to that. | 21:26 |
| * J1m adds a new mkzopeinstance test | 21:27 | |
| * J1m hates hates hates inscrutable classic unittests. Blech. | 21:28 | |
| * benji does too. | 21:28 | |
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| * J1m debugs a test to find out wtf it does | 21:31 | |
| J1m | (wtf is a tla for "what the fudge") | 21:32 |
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| * benji wants some fudge | 21:34 | |
| * benji goes to get some fudge | 21:35 | |
| * benji returns with chips and dip; all out of fudge :( | 21:36 | |
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| benji | srichter, ping | 22:56 |
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| benji | J1m, bbwin seems to be exibiting the flaky network behavior, just like fred-win | 22:59 |
| J1m | Yeah | 22:59 |
| benji | :( | 22:59 |
| J1m | I guess my switch is golden. :) | 22:59 |
| benji | I guess we can't make fun of your switch any more | 22:59 |
| benji | :) | 22:59 |
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| benji | lol! | 22:59 |
| benji | J1m, do you consider lack of I18N coverage a blocker? (there is an XXX about some messages not being I18Ned) | 23:08 |
| J1m | no | 23:08 |
| benji | K | 23:09 |
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| J1m | waaaaa | 23:37 |
| J1m | what is using zope.app.twisted.mkzopeinstance? | 23:37 |
| benji | ok, all XXXs are fixed except for four, one I need to work on, I sent a message about the other three to zope3-dev | 23:39 |
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| dman13 | regarding mkzopeinstance ... I became aware last night that zope.app.server.mkzopeinstance doesn't properly xml-quote values that are put in xml files (eg admin password in principals.zcml) | 23:46 |
| dman13 | are there two duplicate mkzopeinstance's now? (one for twisted and one for zserver) | 23:47 |
| J1m | seem to be. | 23:47 |
| dman13 | oh, while I'm on the topic, is there a convenient function available in python to properly escape characters for XML? If someone can point me to it I can make an easy fix for mkzopeinstance | 23:48 |
| dman13 | does there need to be two mkzopeinstances? isn't the only difference the zope.conf parameter for using twisted? (or was that parameter not implemented yet?) | 23:48 |
| benji | dman13, xml.sax.saxutils.escape and/or quoteattr | 23:49 |
| J1m | I have no idea wht there is a twisted mkzopeinstance. | 23:49 |
| benji | I have no idea what you said. | 23:49 |
| dman13 | benji: sweet! thanks. | 23:49 |
| * dman13 hasn't done enough XML work in python to have learned the APIs | 23:50 | |
| * benji hasn't either, he just can't forget anything :) | 23:51 | |
| J1m | I think srichter just copied zope.app.server to make zope.app.twisted. | 23:51 |
| benji | :( | 23:51 |
| J1m | But I suspect that not all if it is used. | 23:52 |
| benji | exactly | 23:52 |
| benji | oh, BTW I'm glad you got your WSGI bug fixed | 23:52 |
| J1m | Now I guess I'll spend time trying to find out. | 23:52 |
| benji | is that the one Gary was working on? | 23:52 |
| J1m | Huh? | 23:52 |
| J1m | No, it wasn't fixed afaik | 23:53 |
| J1m | well, one was. | 23:53 |
| J1m | It was pretty minor. | 23:53 |
| J1m | Not the big one. | 23:53 |
| benji | not the bug Gary had (with the streams/bodies/consumption/etc.)? | 23:54 |
| J1m | Yeah, that one was fixed. | 23:54 |
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| J1m | Yesterday, we also realized that Twisted's wsgi strategy has inadequate thread-management. | 23:55 |
| J1m | Which means that no one in theit right mind would use it in production. | 23:55 |
| J1m | That's why today I modified zope.app.server.mkzopeinstance to add a --zserver option. | 23:56 |
| benji | pfft, that's great! | 23:56 |
| ClaesBas | Hi, have a question about "Zope3 Instances", how to update after a "svn update" of main source? | 23:56 |
| J1m | I brought this up on the Z3 list. | 23:56 |
| benji | hmm, I must have missed it | 23:56 |
| J1m | Tres made a very funny response. | 23:56 |
| benji | ahh, OK, the electing-people-who-think-goverment-can't-work joke, got'cha | 23:58 |
| J1m | :) | 23:58 |
| benji | I guess that precludes me from running for office, of course the +70 IQ already disqualified me | 23:59 |
| J1m | You would make a great President. | 23:59 |
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