| flox | benji: i guess whole file z.a.publisher/xmlrpc/ftests.py need to be rewritten | 00:00 |
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| benji | flox: I don't see why, do you know what the ReNormalizer is and how it works? | 01:02 |
| flox | i just learned | 01:03 |
| flox | i rewrote the tearDown function to get rid of ztapi | 01:04 |
| flox | nothing else | 01:04 |
| flox | benji: here the rule used | 01:06 |
| flox | RENormalizing(((re.compile('<DateTime \''), '<DateTime u\''),)) | 01:06 |
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| benji | looks good, flox | 01:10 |
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| flox | comitted | 01:10 |
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| benji | flox: (although I would have used something like 12345678 instead of <SOME ADDRESS>; better to keep the doctest looking "realistic") | 01:25 |
| flox | i took it from zope/component/tests.py (l.992) | 01:26 |
| flox | benji: i tried to be consistent with other package... | 01:27 |
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| benji | flox: It's not a strong conviction on my part (but it is a strong preference); perhaps a (hopefully short) discussion on zope3-dev is warranted | 01:30 |
| flox | benji: i try... maybe this is a misunderstanding of RENormalizing on my side | 01:34 |
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| flox | benji: ok, my fault :-( | 01:37 |
| flox | benji: i will do a micro-commit to fix that thing | 01:37 |
| hazmat | how do you model a multi select from a vocabulary? choice seems to be single valued, on a list field passing in a vocab definition as unexpected keyword arguement.. | 01:39 |
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| hazmat | i see in zope.app.form.browser some promising examples of sourcemultiselect widget.. but its not clear how to configure that for a given list field | 01:42 |
| philiKON | hazmat, List(..., value_type=Choice(...)) | 01:43 |
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| hazmat | philiKON, perfect.. thanks | 01:44 |
| philiKON | my book has an example | 01:44 |
| philiKON | chapter 16 (or so), vocabularies | 01:44 |
| hazmat | philiKON, doh.. it does.. pg. 287.. i was reading it too quickly.. and thinking it was out of date.. | 01:44 |
| hazmat | and just thought vocab was passed to enclosing list.. | 01:45 |
| * philiKON smacks hazmat with his "out of date" book | 01:45 | |
| hazmat | ;-) eagerly awaiting das new one.. | 01:45 |
| benji | philiKON: any chance for a PDF edition? | 01:46 |
| benji | (that's what I'd really like) | 01:46 |
| philiKON | benji, well, not from me at least | 01:46 |
| philiKON | i know springer has started an ebook library | 01:46 |
| philiKON | but afaik it's for unis | 01:46 |
| benji | :( | 01:46 |
| philiKON | next book i'll write (read: none) will be PDF :) | 01:47 |
| benji | I like to "read" books on paper, and reffer to them later electronically | 01:47 |
| benji | heh :) | 01:47 |
| benji | s/reffer/refer/ | 01:47 |
| philiKON | ianbicking, ayt? | 01:48 |
| philiKON | i'm having trooubles with workingenv | 01:48 |
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| philiKON | ianbicking, never mind, was due to an hold global installation of setuptools | 02:26 |
| philiKON | newer setuptools (global) fixed it | 02:26 |
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| eins | hi | 08:06 |
| romanofski | moin eins ;) | 08:07 |
| eins | hey romanofski ;) | 08:07 |
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| febb | hi all | 09:15 |
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| romanofski | moin | 09:45 |
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| Theuni | hmmm | 15:48 |
| Theuni | i wonder why <view for=""> requires an interface | 15:48 |
| Theuni | isn't a view just an adapter? | 15:48 |
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| Theuni | can't I register adapters also for classes? | 15:48 |
| srichter | yes, you can | 15:58 |
| philiKON | Theuni, just use <adapter /> | 16:03 |
| philiKON | view doesn't do anythign more | 16:03 |
| philiKON | we should deprecate <view /> ;) | 16:04 |
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| Theuni | aha | 16:41 |
| Theuni | So I guess I could also use browser:view if it's a browser view or is that going to get deprecated too? | 16:41 |
| Theuni | J1m: hooray for the tag! | 16:41 |
| philiKON | Theuni, browser:view can do more than just 'view' | 16:41 |
| Theuni | ic | 16:42 |
| philiKON | browser:view has the notion of subpages | 16:42 |
| philiKON | but essentially, browser:page and view can be expressed thru adapters | 16:42 |
| philiKON | (unless you want the menu item stuff that browser:page also give syou) | 16:42 |
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| Theuni | sure, but you don't want to declare them as adapters all the time because you want to save typing effort. | 16:42 |
| philiKON | i guess... | 16:43 |
| philiKON | i wonder if there'd be a nicer way to save typing effort | 16:43 |
| regebro | I'd like to see browser:view go away and be split into either doing it directly with adapters, or having simpler high-level things that does a lot in one go. | 16:49 |
| regebro | That way you can choose. Low-level complete control, loads of typing, or high-level, not as much control, but simple to understand. | 16:49 |
| J1m | Theuni: philiKON I uploaded the source release, if anyone wants to play with it. | 16:50 |
| philiKON | k | 16:50 |
| philiKON | thx | 16:50 |
| J1m | I'm working on the windows release now. | 16:50 |
| philiKON | later tonight | 16:50 |
| regebro | When philiKON made his suggestion of getting rid or browser:view, I made "Hello!" a product that shows how better browser:view statemenst could look. | 16:50 |
| philiKON | regebro, you mean browser:page, right? | 16:50 |
| regebro | D'oh. | 16:50 |
| regebro | Yes. I mean browser page. | 16:51 |
| regebro | On the other hand, what I said goes for most ZCML stuff that can be expressed as adapters. :-) | 16:51 |
| philiKON | i'd prefer if we used adapter for all of that | 16:52 |
| philiKON | and provided some way of automation to save typing | 16:52 |
| philiKON | <group for="* zope.publisher.interfaces.IBrowserRequest"> | 16:52 |
| philiKON | <adapter ... /> | 16:52 |
| philiKON | <adapter ... /> | 16:52 |
| philiKON | </group> | 16:52 |
| philiKON | perhaps | 16:52 |
| * J1m wants to investigate creating configuration actions in Python before doing much more w zcml. | 16:53 | |
| philiKON | yup, or that | 16:54 |
| philiKON | then we get automation on the pyton level | 16:54 |
| philiKON | and can possibly express actions any other way | 16:54 |
| J1m | philiKON: on a different note, I think we should investigate whether it's practical to make zope.app a namespace package. | 16:54 |
| J1m | then we wouldn't have to move things out. | 16:54 |
| regebro | Well, as long as we still can do overrides in goo ways, I don't mind doing things in python. | 16:54 |
| philiKON | J1m, hmm | 16:54 |
| J1m | regebro: that's why I said configuration actions. | 16:54 |
| J1m | Overrides would then work. | 16:54 |
| regebro | J1m: That's what I hoped it meant. :-) | 16:55 |
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| faassen | J1m: configuration actions in Python would help the grok work, I imagine. | 17:25 |
| faassen | J1m: as I told you yesterday, we're having a mini sprint at Gocept in october about it. | 17:26 |
| faassen | J1m: dunno whether you missed that or not. | 17:26 |
| J1m | I saw that | 17:26 |
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| J1m | faassen: did you notice the new buildout and testrunner recipe releases? | 17:33 |
| faassen | J1m: hm, no, unfortunately the cheeseshop doesn't seem to show release dates. | 17:34 |
| faassen | J1m: which makes it hard to know whether there is a new release unless you remember the version number. :) | 17:34 |
| benji | (or subscribe to the RSS feed) | 17:34 |
| faassen | ah, cool, a testrunner default option thing. | 17:34 |
| faassen | benji: true, I should do that. | 17:34 |
| J1m | also, the documentation now shows some simple examples. | 17:35 |
| faassen | cool. | 17:35 |
| J1m | Notice that my PyPI releases tend yo put full documentation on the project page. :) | 17:35 |
| faassen | J1m: yeah, I noticed. :) | 17:35 |
| faassen | J1m: do we have a way to manipulate the LD_LIBRARY_PATH of the Zope 3 instance runzope script generated by buildout? | 17:36 |
| faassen | J1m: oh, wait, that doesn't work. | 17:36 |
| faassen | J1m: anyway, my main problem is, if I have a C library like openldap or libxml2. | 17:36 |
| faassen | J1m: what would be the best way to make sure that ones script knows about them? for oooconv we wrote this wrapper script, but that's very frustrating. :) | 17:36 |
| J1m | If you build them yourself, you can use the rpath option. | 17:37 |
| J1m | Ala: | 17:37 |
| J1m | [spreadmodule] | 17:37 |
| J1m | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 17:37 |
| J1m | egg = SpreadModule ==1.4 | 17:37 |
| J1m | find-links = http://www.python.org/other/spread/ | 17:37 |
| J1m | include-dirs = ${buildout:directory}/parts/spreadtoolkit/include | 17:37 |
| J1m | library-dirs = ${buildout:directory}/parts/spreadtoolkit/lib | 17:37 |
| J1m | rpath = ${buildout:directory}/parts/spreadtoolkit/lib | 17:37 |
| faassen | ah, that's an interesting example. | 17:37 |
| J1m | It puts the resulting egg in develop-eggs. | 17:38 |
| faassen | so iwhen building the python binding, you use an rpath option referencing the library. | 17:38 |
| faassen | cool. | 17:38 |
| faassen | that ought to work. | 17:38 |
| J1m | You can then refer to it in another part that builds a script. | 17:38 |
| J1m | ala | 17:38 |
| J1m | [zrs] | 17:38 |
| J1m | recipe = zc.recipe.egg | 17:38 |
| J1m | eggs = | 17:38 |
| J1m | zrscontrol | 17:38 |
| J1m | StandbyStorage ==1.4.1-zcfix | 17:38 |
| J1m | ZODB3 ==3.2.10 | 17:38 |
| J1m | SpreadModule ==1.4 | 17:38 |
| faassen | refer to what | 17:39 |
| faassen | > | 17:39 |
| faassen | ? | 17:39 |
| * philiKON grumbles... what good is setuptools if the thing you want to package up isn't packageable as eggs | 17:40 | |
| faassen | maybe I don't understand the custom egg story yet. | 17:40 |
| philiKON | i just rant into this today | 17:40 |
| faassen | philiKON: I ran into it yesterday. :) | 17:40 |
| J1m | so the second example refers to the spreadmodule egg I creayed in the first (custom) example. | 17:40 |
| philiKON | :) | 17:40 |
| faassen | ah, right, so the first example *creates* an egg. | 17:40 |
| J1m | Yes | 17:40 |
| faassen | an egg for the SpreadModule. | 17:41 |
| J1m | The StandbyStorage reference in the first example refers to a source release, not an egg. | 17:41 |
| faassen | which has no setup.py, instead that's done in buildout.cfg? | 17:41 |
| J1m | sorrry SpreadModule. | 17:41 |
| J1m | No, SpreadModule has a setup.py. | 17:41 |
| faassen | and that setup.py, could it have any cruft in the world? | 17:41 |
| J1m | The custom recipe downloads a source release and runs its setup.py | 17:41 |
| faassen | right. | 17:41 |
| J1m | I dunno :) | 17:42 |
| faassen | well, okay, it sounds like taht's good news for th python-ldap module. | 17:42 |
| faassen | I was not looking forward turning that into a real egg. | 17:42 |
| faassen | but I could use this custom egg strategy. | 17:42 |
| J1m | anyway, the custom recipe lets you specify build_ext options. | 17:42 |
| J1m | yes | 17:42 |
| faassen | okay. | 17:42 |
| faassen | that's good. | 17:42 |
| faassen | concerning building pure C libraries.. | 17:42 |
| faassen | you'd just set it up as a part. | 17:42 |
| J1m | yup | 17:43 |
| faassen | use the custom egg recipe and use rpath. | 17:43 |
| J1m | ala | 17:43 |
| J1m | [spreadtoolkit] | 17:43 |
| J1m | recipe = zc.recipe.cmmi | 17:43 |
| J1m | url = http://yum.zope.com/buildout/spread-src-3.17.1.tar.gz | 17:43 |
| J1m | :) | 17:43 |
| faassen | oh, cmmi is configure/make/make install? | 17:43 |
| J1m | Yup | 17:43 |
| faassen | oh, cool, I hadn't realized. | 17:43 |
| J1m | I need to release it as an egg. | 17:43 |
| faassen | thanks, J1m, you just make my work easier. :) | 17:43 |
| J1m | I had to use it as a develop egg, since I haven't released it. | 17:43 |
| faassen | right. | 17:44 |
| J1m | That's my job. | 17:44 |
| faassen | I know how to do that for the time being. | 17:44 |
| * faassen grins. | 17:44 | |
| faassen | to make Martijn's work easier, huh? | 17:44 |
| J1m | Yup | 17:44 |
| faassen | oh, that's good to know. :) | 17:44 |
| faassen | now if I make your job easier sometimes, we'll make our jobs so easy we're not necessary anymore. | 17:45 |
| faassen | in a recursive whirlwind. | 17:45 |
| J1m | Thne we can use the time machine to go back to when we were useful. | 17:46 |
| faassen | good point, I still have the key. | 17:47 |
| J1m | BTW, Acquisition is still a Good Thing and used by Zope 3. | 17:48 |
| J1m | It is implicit acquisition that was a mistake. | 17:48 |
| * philiKON agrees | 17:49 | |
| philiKON | also, aq wrappers suck | 17:49 |
| philiKON | but were a necessary evil i guess | 17:49 |
| J1m | You couldn't play acquisition pinball without them. :) | 17:49 |
| faassen | sure, but it's clear in my keynote Jim was working on implicit acquisition. :) | 17:50 |
| J1m | It is implicit in your keynote. | 17:50 |
| faassen | the other one is just called 'local components' in Zope 3 parlance, it appears. | 17:50 |
| faassen | yes. | 17:50 |
| philiKON | i sort of talked about this briefly in my talk | 17:51 |
| philiKON | My #9 tip | 17:51 |
| faassen | yeah, philiKON was on message. :) | 17:51 |
| philiKON | "Acquire via the CA" | 17:51 |
| philiKON | older version of the talk: http://philikon.de/files/dzug-2006-five.pdf | 17:51 |
| philiKON | slides that are used in the talk will be online at some point on zope.de | 17:52 |
| philiKON | (wink Theuni) | 17:52 |
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| Theuni | *backwink | 17:59 |
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| faassen | J1m: any idea on how I convince zc.recipe.egg:custom (or something) on digging up a tarball? | 19:02 |
| faassen | J1m: I tried putting the tarball locally, making an index page referencing to it, refering to that with index = | 19:03 |
| faassen | J1m: still it refuses to do anything with the tarball. | 19:03 |
| faassen | it's probably some kind of obscure easy_install rule that I need to obey. | 19:04 |
| faassen | [python-ldap] | 19:04 |
| faassen | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 19:04 |
| faassen | egg = python-ldap | 19:04 |
| faassen | index = file:///home/faassen/buildout/index.html | 19:04 |
| faassen | include-dirs = ${buildout:directory}/parts/openldap/include | 19:04 |
| faassen | library-dirs = $(buildout:directory}/parts/openldap/lib | 19:04 |
| faassen | rpath = $(buildout:directory)/parts/openldap/lib | 19:04 |
| faassen | is what I got. | 19:04 |
| faassen | and then index.html has this: | 19:04 |
| faassen | <a href="file:///home/faassen/buildout/python-ldap-2.2.0.tar.gz">python-ldap-2.2.0.tar.gz</a> | 19:05 |
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| ianbicking | faassen: I think index is a PyPI-like index; you want something like find-links? Not sure if buildout uses the same names as easy_install, though | 19:14 |
| faassen | ianbicking: they're basically passed along to setuptools. yes, find-links is there. | 19:14 |
| faassen | ianbicking: I tried that first. | 19:14 |
| faassen | ianbicking: it's just that it's not finding it. sourceforge being evil with stuff, I made it local, pointing find-links to a local directory, but no go. | 19:15 |
| faassen | ianbicking: hm, possibly I need to put it onto a local webserver. | 19:15 |
| faassen | ianbicking: I'll try that. | 19:15 |
| WebMaven | jinty: ping | 19:18 |
| jinty | hey Webmaven | 19:18 |
| jinty | good or bad news? | 19:18 |
| regebro | Are there any ZODB gurus in europe? I have an acquiantance that needs one. (for money) | 19:19 |
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| regebro | They have the same problem that was up some week ago, that the index gets corrupted, and the database is so big that rebuilding it takes hours. | 19:20 |
| faassen | regebro: Dieter Maurer | 19:20 |
| regebro | OK, cool, thanks. | 19:20 |
| faassen | regebro: also the guy who did directorystorage, perhaps. | 19:20 |
| regebro | Should have expected him to be a total ZODB guru as well. :-) | 19:20 |
| regebro | Toby Dickensen? | 19:21 |
| faassen | Dickingson or something like that, yeah. | 19:21 |
| faassen | ianbicking: okay, that didn't help either (making it point to localhost to find its link) | 19:22 |
| regebro | OK, thanks faassen | 19:23 |
| ianbicking | faassen: sorry, I've been wandering around. Newer versions of setuptools are supposed to understand file://, but I haven't tried it. | 19:32 |
| ianbicking | the link looks right to me (python-ldap-2.2.0.tar.gz) | 19:32 |
| ianbicking | it's what setuptools expects, assuming you are trying to installl "python-ldap" | 19:33 |
| ianbicking | can you see how buildout is invoking easy_install? | 19:33 |
| faassen | ianbicking: it's invoking it through code, so I'd need to use a debugger. | 19:34 |
| ianbicking | mmm... J1m should log something then, so people can use their easy_install-fu to figure out the problems ;) | 19:36 |
| faassen | yeah. :) | 19:37 |
| faassen | it claims this: | 19:38 |
| faassen | zc.buildout.easy_install: Getting new distribution for python-ldap | 19:38 |
| faassen | Error: Couln't find a distribution for python-ldap. | 19:38 |
| faassen | that message seems to be generated by buildout itself. | 19:38 |
| ianbicking | another option, if you have a package that depends on python-ldap, is that you can put in distribution_links=["direct_link"] in setup() in that package | 19:38 |
| faassen | in, zc.buildout.easy_install :) | 19:38 |
| ianbicking | but if you are hacking around SF that's probably not a good solution | 19:39 |
| faassen | ianbicking: what does that do? | 19:39 |
| ianbicking | it basically adds something like --find-links, that will be applied to any requirements for that package | 19:39 |
| faassen | hm. | 19:39 |
| ianbicking | so if your package requires something that someone else hasn't publically registered, you can list it there | 19:39 |
| faassen | so distribution_links=["http://foobar.source/foo.tgz"] | 19:40 |
| faassen | ? | 19:40 |
| ianbicking | yes, I'm pretty sure that's right | 19:40 |
| faassen | ah, apparently if I set the log level to debug.. | 19:41 |
| faassen | I might get some more output. | 19:41 |
| faassen | yeah, lots more output. | 19:41 |
| faassen | let's see what it tells me now. | 19:41 |
| faassen | thanks Jim for using the time machine. | 19:41 |
| faassen | stupid I didn't think of that befor.e | 19:41 |
| ianbicking | well, good luck, off to lunch for me | 19:42 |
| faassen | see you! thanks. :) | 19:42 |
| faassen | I'm out of here, I'll try to figure this out tomorrow. :) | 19:51 |
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| mgedmin | so, if I want to define a view that can be accessed from TALES expressions via context/@@name, but is not accessible from a URL, ... | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | ... should I use <zope:view> or <browser:view> ? | 22:05 |
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| philiKON | mgedmin, either one. just not <browser:page> | 22:11 |
| philiKON | @@absolute_url is a <browser:view> afaik | 22:11 |
| mgedmin | good, I just wondered if <browser:view> had any harmful magic other than specifying the request type | 22:11 |
| philiKON | <browser:view> does more than just <view>+interface | 22:11 |
| philiKON | it allows subpages | 22:11 |
| mgedmin | oh? | 22:11 |
| philiKON | someobj/@@browserview/subpage | 22:11 |
| philiKON | while someobj/@@browserview by itself is not publishable | 22:12 |
| philiKON | afaik | 22:12 |
| philiKON | browser:view + subpages is a relic from the times when we didn't really understand views, i think | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | ok, now I have to go read the sources of the <browser:view> handler :/ | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | or just use <zope:view> and not worry about it ;) | 22:12 |
| philiKON | i think the whole pages thing was an attempt to model what we now do with update() and render() | 22:13 |
| philiKON | def __call__(self): | 22:13 |
| philiKON | self.update() | 22:13 |
| philiKON | return self.render() | 22:13 |
| philiKON | so, with browser:view + subpages, you might have the form action and the form itself be separate things, for example | 22:13 |
| philiKON | that's at least how i udnerstood this | 22:13 |
| philiKON | it's been a long time :) | 22:14 |
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| srichter | browser page is invaluable, unless you use z3c.viewtemplate | 22:25 |
| mgedmin | what's z3c.viewtemplate? | 22:26 |
| philiKON | srichter, we weren't really talking about browser:page | 22:28 |
| philiKON | srichter, viewtemplate looks abit like namedtemplates... | 22:29 |
| srichter | except that namedtemplates don't work | 22:30 |
| srichter | or at least too complicated | 22:30 |
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| srichter | and it is far too Python-oriented | 22:31 |
| philiKON | hum, ok | 22:31 |
| srichter | it does not work for a situation where you work with designers and template scripters | 22:31 |
| philiKON | i'm actually starting to dislike pagetemplates in general | 22:31 |
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| srichter | why? | 22:32 |
| philiKON | long story | 22:32 |
| philiKON | :) | 22:32 |
| srichter | what do you prefer instead? | 22:32 |
| philiKON | meld3 or twiddler look very appealing | 22:32 |
| srichter | (btw, Roger and I will implement a very minimal PT implementation that only supports attribute lookup on the view) | 22:32 |
| philiKON | basically, the template has NO logic | 22:32 |
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| srichter | meld3 has no i18n support | 22:32 |
| philiKON | srichter, you provide the i18n :) | 22:32 |
| srichter | righhhht, in Python... | 22:33 |
| philiKON | right | 22:33 |
| srichter | forget it | 22:33 |
| srichter | that only works if you have one developer doing templating and Python | 22:33 |
| philiKON | au contraire | 22:33 |
| philiKON | the designer can do "dummies" | 22:33 |
| philiKON | that's what they like best | 22:34 |
| philiKON | all the actual dynamics are outside the template | 22:34 |
| philiKON | i consider i18n to be dynamics | 22:34 |
| srichter | not me | 22:34 |
| philiKON | that's cool. then we have different views :) | 22:34 |
| srichter | and my wife would tell you from a linguist/translator side that she would hate it too | 22:34 |
| philiKON | not sure what she would have to do with the templates | 22:35 |
| philiKON | btw, there could be lots of automation for i18n in meld3 | 22:35 |
| philiKON | to the point where it becomes as easy as in zpt | 22:35 |
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| srichter | ok, never mind, I just think that the current Zope 3 direction concerning UI is very misguided, because only developers think about it; and I have learned this only after having to work in a larger environment, which is new to me as well | 22:36 |
| philiKON | i mean, the important thing is the tagging | 22:36 |
| philiKON | srichter, i'm currently working in a pretty large environment, with people who know squat about zpt | 22:36 |
| philiKON | and yet have to work with | 22:36 |
| philiKON | the barrier for them is so high | 22:37 |
| philiKON | they're good designers, but they mess everything up | 22:37 |
| philiKON | because they cna't grasp the macro structure | 22:37 |
| philiKON | for instance | 22:37 |
| philiKON | and while the viewlets approach is nice, it's even more complicated for them to grasp | 22:37 |
| philiKON | designers want to create HTML pages | 22:37 |
| philiKON | so, meld3 and twiddler let them do that | 22:37 |
| philiKON | later, you come in and write some python to dynamicize it | 22:38 |
| philiKON | done | 22:38 |
| philiKON | if we'd be using that approach in our current project, lots of things were easier. alas, we can't | 22:38 |
| mgedmin | it took me quite a while to grasp the macro structure of page templates | 22:39 |
| mgedmin | the interaction with name scopes is unobvious | 22:39 |
| J1m | macros were a mistake | 22:40 |
| * mgedmin finds macros useful to reduce copy & paste duplication in page templates, once you get your brain aligned in the right way | 22:41 | |
| philiKON | J1m, btw, i fell in love with ian's workingenv yesterday | 22:42 |
| philiKON | and, for its simplicity and Zope's lack of support for instance-local eggs, i'm covering it in the book now | 22:42 |
| * mgedmin was disappointed that setuptools didn't make it into python 2.5 | 22:43 | |
| * mgedmin hoped for egg support out-of-the-box | 22:43 | |
| philiKON | yeah, what was that all about? | 22:43 |
| rocky | possibly it's pre 1.0 status ? | 22:45 |
| philiKON | pje could've easily release 1.0 :) | 22:45 |
| philiKON | +d | 22:45 |
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| harobed | I learn Zope, can I "play" with Container, Contained, BTree... in python interactive command ? | 22:53 |
| srichter | harobed: yep | 22:54 |
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| harobed | I've this code : http://rafb.net/paste/results/klpvCm93.html | 22:55 |
| harobed | How can I add BlogEntry in Blog ? | 22:56 |
| harobed | blog1.append(post1) ? | 22:56 |
| harobed | wait.. | 22:56 |
| harobed | I play with this code : http://codespeak.net/svn/z3/zblog/trunk/ | 22:57 |
| philiKON | harobed, blog1['post1'] = post1 | 22:57 |
| philiKON | harobed, IContainers are like dictionaries | 22:57 |
| harobed | ok, I try it | 22:57 |
| philiKON | harobed, the interfaces are there to tell you about the API of objects | 22:57 |
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| harobed | ok, it works | 22:59 |
| philiKON | of course it does | 22:59 |
| philiKON | :) | 22:59 |
| J1m | philiKON: I found lots of setuptools bugs working on buildout | 23:00 |
| philiKON | can imagine | 23:00 |
| J1m | so it wasn't ready for 2.5 imo | 23:00 |
| philiKON | k | 23:00 |
| J1m | Plus we're still learning how to use it. | 23:00 |
| philiKON | that i agree on | 23:00 |
| harobed | do you know a french zope user who can been my mentor ? | 23:01 |
| harobed | s/user/hacker | 23:01 |
| harobed | s/zope/zope3 | 23:01 |
| J1m | A whole lot of people are building buildout/workingenv-like things because easy install doesn't capture a lot of important use cases. | 23:01 |
| philiKON | exactlyh | 23:01 |
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| J1m | Honestly, I'd rather see most of setuptools live outside of Python and see Python contain just enough to make setuptools run well. | 23:05 |
| jinty | hmm, it seems that requests lose their skin on publisher retry... anyone got an idea how make a test for that? | 23:06 |
| philiKON | jinty, hah, we just had that problem on zope 2 | 23:06 |
| philiKON | jinty, alecm wrote tests for it, not sure if they help at all for z3 | 23:07 |
| jinty | well, it's on zope 3 now as well;) | 23:07 |
| philiKON | amazing, zope 2 fixed something before zope 3 :) | 23:07 |
| philiKON | (and it's a zope 3 related thing, even) | 23:07 |
| alecm | hehe | 23:08 |
| alecm | We plone people are using zope 3 as much as we can these days :-) | 23:08 |
| * philiKON envisions lots of zc.*, z3c.*, plone.* etc. packages flooding the cheeseshop soon | 23:09 | |
| * rocky does a happy dance for plone | 23:11 | |
| harobed | it's normal thant contraint don't work in python interactive command ? | 23:11 |
| * philiKON dances 'round the stake for CPS | 23:11 | |
| * benji would dance, but his wife advises against it | 23:12 | |
| philiKON | what a poor excuse | 23:12 |
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| benji | heh :) | 23:14 |
| rocky | well... my wife is upstairs so i had no problem ;) | 23:15 |
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| * philiKON does a happy dance for benji | 23:15 | |
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| jinty | philiKON: any reason for setDefaultSkin(request) to be in zope/app/publication/httpfactory.py and not in the BrowserRequest's __init__? | 23:20 |
| philiKON | jinty, hmm, because it's a policy thing | 23:20 |
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| jinty | philiKON: hmm, ok, then I guess I'll just file an issue | 23:22 |
| srichter | J1m: to go back a bit, I found a new usage for macros; our designers asked us that all view snippets for a particular concept (like user) be in one template. So we use macros to mark each snippet and then connect them to viewlets; we are not using use-macro, just define-macro | 23:25 |
| harobed | I need First Head Zope book :) | 23:27 |
| philiKON | harobed, http://worldcookery.com | 23:27 |
| harobed | it's like Zope3book, isn't it ? | 23:28 |
| philiKON | worldcookery.com is more for the beginner | 23:29 |
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| philiKON | there are also some tutorials under "Appetziers" | 23:30 |
| harobed | can I buy PDF version ? | 23:31 |
| philiKON | sorry, no | 23:32 |
| harobed | Zope 3 Developer's Handbook is Zope3Book ? | 23:33 |
| philiKON | yup | 23:33 |
| xenru | philiKON: may be community can purchase from you to open this book? | 23:35 |
| philiKON | xenru, i'm not sure i understand | 23:35 |
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| harobed | philiKON, you are authors ? | 23:36 |
| harobed | s/authors/author | 23:36 |
| philiKON | yes | 23:36 |
| xenru | you saw that Nuxeo swith to Java bacause they cann't find enought zope developers for them and clients | 23:36 |
| xenru | your book is best to start | 23:37 |
| harobed | xenru, it's right ? | 23:37 |
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| xenru | yep | 23:37 |
| philiKON | i never said anything about clients | 23:37 |
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| xenru | Nuxeu said | 23:38 |
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| benji | FWIW, I am persuaded that training good Python developers on Zope 3 isn't that hard, so hiring "Zope 3 people" can (often) be reduced to hiring "Python people" | 23:40 |
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| philiKON | of course | 23:40 |
| philiKON | just find python people :) | 23:41 |
| philiKON | not that easy, but certainly easier | 23:41 |
| philiKON | in fact, i'd prefer to hire python people than zope people, for zope 3 that is | 23:41 |
| benji | I do wish it was a little easier to find really smart Python people, though :) | 23:41 |
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| harobed | Python is easy but learn Zope 3 is very diffucult | 23:43 |
| harobed | s/diffucult/difficult | 23:43 |
| xenru | anyway Philipps book is best :) | 23:44 |
| harobed | ok, I buy it now on french amazon | 23:46 |
| philiKON | thanks, now i can buy dinner ;) | 23:46 |
| harobed | I hope it will can help me to learn Zope 3 | 23:47 |
| philiKON | i hope so too | 23:47 |
| xenru | harobed: yes it can help you | 23:47 |
| philiKON | please let me know how you like the book | 23:47 |
| harobed | ok | 23:48 |
| WebMaven | benji: Smart people are always hard to find. | 23:49 |
| benji | too true | 23:49 |
| benji | they should be forced to register with the government or something | 23:49 |
| WebMaven | It's a little easier to figure out which the smart ones are with Python than say, with PHP. | 23:50 |
| benji | heh :) | 23:50 |
| * edgordon is sad for the first time about not having to register w/ the government | 23:50 | |
| WebMaven | No, I wasn't making a joke. There *are* smart PHP devs. | 23:50 |
| xenru | WebMaven: may be some of them read python spec ;) | 23:51 |
| harobed | philiKON, your book not speak about Catalog ? | 23:51 |
| benji | yep, I agree WebMaven | 23:51 |
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| philiKON | harobed, no. when i wrote the book, there was no catalog yet | 23:51 |
| benji | harobed: the docs are pretty good; see zope/app/catalog/README.txt | 23:52 |
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| harobed | there are french zope 3 community ? | 23:54 |
| harobed | benji, ok, thanks | 23:54 |
| harobed | my purchase is done :) | 23:54 |
| edgordon | i really wish the big book chains carried either of the z3 books in-store | 23:55 |
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| WebMaven | Amazon.com is the biggest book chain. | 23:56 |
| benji | edgordon: I've seen both at my local borders... perhaps they knew they were in the same town as ZC and wanted to impress us :) | 23:57 |
| philiKON | haha | 23:57 |
| edgordon | yeah, i have never seen either | 23:57 |
| harobed | xenru, if Nuxeo going to Java it's only because Zope hacker is difficult to found | 23:57 |
| harobed | ? | 23:58 |
| edgordon | guess Atlanta isn't a hotbed of z3 activity. or maybe it is just always sold out. | 23:58 |
| harobed | xenru, or is it because Zope issue ? | 23:58 |
| WebMaven | edgordon: for most boooks that are carried by a store's distributor, you can order the book for no extra money. They even won't necessarily make you buy it. | 23:59 |
| philiKON | harobed, read the faq at nuxeo.com | 23:59 |
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