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| zenwryly | I'm about to write an adapter (and schema) for managing the interfaces an object directlyProvides. Is there something out there that alredy does this? | 01:36 |
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| romanofski | morjens :) | 09:31 |
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| thkoch | good day. is there also a #zope3-users channel out there? | 13:15 |
| Theuni | not that i know of | 13:15 |
| thkoch | could somebody have a look on this mkinstance issue? http://zope3.pastebin.com/866925 | 13:17 |
| Theuni | your unix user seems to miss permissions | 13:18 |
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| thkoch | Do I have to create the instance as root, even if I create it in my home_dir? | 13:19 |
| Theuni | no | 13:19 |
| Theuni | usually not | 13:19 |
| Theuni | s/usually/idontknowanyreason/ | 13:19 |
| thkoch | now I did it as root without any error. not nice. | 13:20 |
| Theuni | can you switch back to your user and try again | 13:20 |
| Theuni | oh wait | 13:20 |
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| Theuni | that's a chownchown operation | 13:21 |
| Theuni | i guess that mkzopeinstance tries to set the group id to something that your user isn't a part of | 13:21 |
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| thkoch | Now I try to edit zope.conf, but it's owned by root inside my homedir. I'll run a chown over the whole instance_dir | 13:24 |
| Theuni | sure | 13:24 |
| Theuni | forget about creating it as root | 13:24 |
| Theuni | delete that | 13:24 |
| thkoch | and then? | 13:29 |
| Theuni | start again with your user | 13:30 |
| Theuni | i wanna find out why it fails on the cown | 13:30 |
| thkoch | now I did it as user with the same error. what to change? | 13:32 |
| Theuni | are you comfortable editing some python code? | 13:34 |
| thkoch | I'll try | 13:34 |
| Theuni | edit the mkzopeinstance script to print out the uid,gid parameters before the chown command | 13:34 |
| Theuni | then run again | 13:34 |
| Theuni | then compare whether your user is in that group | 13:34 |
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| thkoch | Theuni: UID 109 GID 115 | 14:11 |
| thkoch | UID 109 and GID 115 are both named zope | 14:12 |
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| thkoch | Since this morning I'm reading Philippp von Weitershausen Zope3 book and still don't get an instance to run. This doesn't seem to be RAD... | 14:27 |
| thkoch | There's no script bin/zopectl as stated in the book | 14:28 |
| thkoch | and /etc/init.d/zope3 says, that it doesn't found any instance | 14:28 |
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| Tonteria_ | hey guys and girls | 15:19 |
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| Theuni | thkoch: sorry for the delay | 15:49 |
| Theuni | are you using a distribution specifc package? | 15:49 |
| thkoch | merci for helping me. I'm using debian with it's zope3 package | 15:50 |
| Theuni | ok | 15:50 |
| thkoch | When creating an instance as root, it runs and I also found bin/zopectl in the end | 15:50 |
| Theuni | forget about that | 15:50 |
| Theuni | don't use packages. | 15:50 |
| Theuni | use the source download from the homepage | 15:51 |
| thkoch | I've searched in the zope install dir and not in the Instance initially | 15:51 |
| Theuni | most packagers do things in weird ways that behave different than what we do | 15:51 |
| thkoch | I started reading the zope3 book from Philipp von Weitershausen this morning and threw it away one hour ago after I saw a windows screenshot on page 44 | 15:52 |
| thkoch | Are zope people using Windows? | 15:52 |
| Theuni | not very much | 15:53 |
| Theuni | i wonder why there is a windows screenshot | 15:53 |
| Theuni | philipp typically uses mac os x | 15:53 |
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| thkoch | Is it possible to run Zope3 on Apache istead of the given Server? | 15:55 |
| Theuni | theoretically yes, practically there's no code that does it. | 15:56 |
| Theuni | however, you can run zope3 *behind* apache and that's a common approach. | 15:56 |
| Theuni | e.g. using modproxy/modrewrite | 15:56 |
| thkoch | I come from PHP and I like the fact that every request starts a new process which is terminated afterwards. This way you've a clean overview how the request runs throug your application | 15:56 |
| Theuni | ah | 15:56 |
| Theuni | forget about that ;) | 15:56 |
| thkoch | I'll continue tomorrow with Zope3. But running over windows screenshots in the zope book and the definitive guide to plone doesn't raise my confidence in zope. | 15:59 |
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| * benji hopes thkoch doesn't run across any screenshots of OS/2 and die of a brain aneurysm | 16:04 | |
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| Tonteria__ | t | 17:37 |
| Tonteria__ | what are the significant advantages of zope 3, comparing it with zope 2 ? | 17:38 |
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| ignas | Tonteria__: it's better! | 17:42 |
| ignas | and i have heard that you get more virgins when you die if you use Zope3 | 17:42 |
| benji | oh, now ignas; you should be more informative than that... | 17:42 |
| benji | it's 50% better (3/2 = 1.5) | 17:42 |
| softdevr | hi, can I use currently use zope3 as a development tool for real projects - for example can zope 2 products be used? | 17:43 |
| Tonteria__ | hmm, when i died i guess im not in the mood to be intim with zombie virgins anymore | 17:43 |
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| benji | Tonteria__: advantages: better for python programmers; disadvantages: worse for through-the-web development | 17:44 |
| ignas | Tonteria__: Zope3 gives you better job security - there are a lot of Zope2 developers and resources, and you can't count active Zope3 application developers on your fingers :) | 17:44 |
| ignas | s/can't count/can count | 17:45 |
| ignas | :) | 17:45 |
| ignas | so you develop a complex application using wonderful Zope3 component architecture | 17:45 |
| ignas | and it can be easily extended and maintained by any Zope3 programmer | 17:46 |
| ignas | and there aren't many of those ;) | 17:46 |
| Tonteria__ | ah thank you, recently im forced to use zope 2, if im impressed i will use version 3 in future | 17:46 |
| ignas | all in all - Zope3 gives you very nice tools to factor your application into loosely coupled parts working together | 17:47 |
| ignas | so if you are working on a big complex systems it is a lot easier to manage that complexity using Zope3 | 17:47 |
| ignas | while at the same time you get to deal with quite a lot of complicated subjects even if all you want to do is a very small and simple application | 17:48 |
| benji | strangely enough, Tonteria__, if you're impressed by Z2, you might not like Z3; the inverse is also true | 17:48 |
| mgedmin | it's easiest to think about Z2 and Z3 as totally different products | 17:49 |
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| benji | ...with Z2 slowly consuming and being reformed by Z3 | 17:49 |
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| dlk | I think it's called "embracing and extending" | 17:51 |
| ignas | yes, the ugly brother is eating the popular one :) | 17:51 |
| ignas | because he's bigger and stronger | 17:51 |
| dlk | yup. It's a common pattern in the industry :-) | 17:51 |
| benji | more like the more popular brother is converting to the religion of the more philosophical, but not yet as popular brother | 17:52 |
| dlk | same same but different :) | 17:52 |
| Tonteria__ | did you choose zope because you are ambitioned python programmers ? | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | eating Z2 from the inside... have you seen "Alien"? | 17:54 |
| ignas | mgedmin: soon Zope3 will start laying eggs ! | 17:54 |
| ignas | Tonteria__: no, not really, company I work for was using Zope3 and now i have a Zope3 based application i have to develop :) | 17:55 |
| dlk | laying eggs is old-school technology. Live birth is the new thing, as demonstrated by Alien 4 :) | 17:55 |
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| ignas | dlk: someone should add support for Live birth to buildout | 17:56 |
| dlk | :) | 17:56 |
| dlk | indeed. Our own way of building "turn key" solutions: "Live Birth(tm)" | 17:57 |
| ignas | now i am just pulling some eggs and waiting for them to go *pop* | 17:58 |
| dlk | maybe that is not such a bad idea. Ship a couple of example apps, simple but fully functional demo apps... | 17:58 |
| * mgedmin just implemented eazysvn.py revert | 17:58 | |
| mgedmin | oh my, svn switch sucks so hard :/ | 18:00 |
| * mgedmin kicks subversion some more | 18:02 | |
| mgedmin | oh, apparently "svn: Cannot replace a directory from within" actually means "dude, you're running svn up in a branch that was removed from the repository" | 18:03 |
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| dlk | aha! nice to see that kerberos style error messages are used by svn too... | 18:08 |
| Theuni | it also sometimes means "dude, you're running update ona directory that was added but not checked in yet" ;) | 18:17 |
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| whit | zenwryly: tiks might have something for this. zope2 does | 19:41 |
| whit | the schema approach would be nicer than Flon or z2 | 19:42 |
| benji | either whit is talking to himself, or I'm semi-deaf | 19:43 |
| whit | irc lag ;) | 19:43 |
| benji | a little bit of both then :) | 19:44 |
| zenwryly | whit: tiks? | 19:45 |
| whit | http://www.tiks.org/ | 19:45 |
| whit | but the site is down apparently | 19:46 |
| whit | it's a cms built on z3 that uses marker order to control behavior in many cases | 19:46 |
| ccomb | marker ? you mean marker interfaces ? | 19:49 |
| * mgedmin imagines developers reordering coloured markers by the whiteboard to control cms behaviour | 19:51 | |
| Theuni | the site doesn't look very zope3ish | 19:51 |
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| zenwryly | whit: thanks | 20:01 |
| whit | Theuni: it's plone I think | 20:02 |
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| Theuni | whit: at least cmf | 20:14 |
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| Tonteria__ | how i can import *.zexp files in Linux ? there is the hint, that i have to create /import in the insallation directory, but it does not have an effect | 22:33 |
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| srichter | Tonteria__: wrong channel; try #zope | 22:54 |
| Tonteria__ | gracias | 22:54 |
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| softdevr | hi, I asked this before but didn't catch anyones interest. How useful would you consider zope3 at the moment - there doesn't seem to be made components available for it at the moment. Therefore I guess I could build well organised systems with it, but there I'd have to build any application-domain packages myself, e.g. a user login system, online ordering system etc.? | 22:59 |
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| srichter | softdevr: several companies exclusively use Zope 3 for all new development (for example: Zope Corp. and Lovely Systems) | 23:01 |
| softdevr | are they releasing zope3 packages? | 23:02 |
| srichter | of course | 23:02 |
| srichter | see svn.zope.org | 23:02 |
| srichter | there are a lot of packages there | 23:02 |
| softdevr | ah ok, apologies. I could only a few are shown on zope.org/Products | 23:05 |
| srichter | yeah, we do not use that way of releasing | 23:05 |
| srichter | most packages are available in the Python cheeseshop, but not all | 23:05 |
| srichter | some you can only use directly from svn | 23:05 |
| srichter | you also want to check out codespeak.net/zope3 for a few other Zope 3 packages | 23:06 |
| ccomb | the zope3 packages are not enough visible from the outside | 23:06 |
| srichter | feel free to write a Website listing them all; that would be really great! | 23:07 |
| softdevr | :) | 23:07 |
| ccomb | it would be great | 23:07 |
| ccomb | maybe something that would automatically retrieve the readme files from the repository and reformat them | 23:08 |
| srichter | sure | 23:08 |
| ccomb | but I understand there are other priorities for the moment | 23:08 |
| softdevr | well it certainly wasn't clear to me before you pointed that out - and it a significant factor in assessing zope3 | 23:08 |
| srichter | also parse the setup.py file for the meta data | 23:08 |
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| softdevr | it might make for a suitable app to make while learning zope3, I'll keep it in mind | 23:10 |
| ccomb | is there a way to know the current state of packages ? (stability, usability, etc.) | 23:10 |
| srichter | in my experience pretty much all packages in the zope, z3c, lovely and zc namespace are stable and work with the Zope 3 trunk | 23:11 |
| srichter | there might be a few that are outdated, but I am not aware of any | 23:11 |
| ccomb | cool | 23:11 |
| srichter | most of those packages are used in production | 23:11 |
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