IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2007-01-25

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zenwrylyI'm about to write an adapter (and schema) for managing the interfaces an object directlyProvides.  Is there something out there that alredy does this?01:36
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romanofskimorjens :)09:31
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thkochgood day. is there also a #zope3-users channel out there?13:15
Theuninot that i know of13:15
thkochcould somebody have a look on this mkinstance issue?
Theuniyour unix user seems to miss permissions13:18
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thkochDo I have to create the instance as root, even if I create it in my home_dir?13:19
Theuniusually not13:19
thkochnow I did it as root without any error. not nice.13:20
Theunican you switch back to your user and try again13:20
Theunioh wait13:20
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Theunithat's a chownchown operation13:21
Theunii guess that mkzopeinstance tries to set the group id to something that your user isn't a part of13:21
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thkochNow I try to edit zope.conf, but it's owned by root inside my homedir. I'll run a chown over the whole instance_dir13:24
Theuniforget about creating it as root13:24
Theunidelete that13:24
thkochand then?13:29
Theunistart again with your user13:30
Theunii wanna find out why it fails on the cown13:30
thkochnow I did it as user with the same error. what to change?13:32
Theuniare you comfortable editing some python code?13:34
thkochI'll try13:34
Theuniedit the mkzopeinstance script to print out the uid,gid parameters before the chown command13:34
Theunithen run again13:34
Theunithen compare whether your user is in that group13:34
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thkochTheuni: UID 109 GID 11514:11
thkochUID 109 and GID 115 are both named zope14:12
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thkochSince this morning I'm reading Philippp von Weitershausen Zope3 book and still don't get an instance to run. This doesn't seem to be RAD...14:27
thkochThere's no script bin/zopectl as stated in the book14:28
thkochand /etc/init.d/zope3 says, that it doesn't found any instance14:28
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Tonteria_hey guys and girls15:19
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Theunithkoch: sorry for the delay15:49
Theuniare you using a distribution specifc package?15:49
thkochmerci for helping me. I'm using debian with it's zope3 package15:50
thkochWhen creating an instance as root, it runs and I also found bin/zopectl in the end15:50
Theuniforget about that15:50
Theunidon't use packages.15:50
Theuniuse the source download from the homepage15:51
thkochI've searched in the zope install dir and not in the Instance initially15:51
Theunimost packagers do things in weird ways that behave different than what we do15:51
thkochI started reading the zope3 book from Philipp von Weitershausen this morning and threw it away one hour ago after I saw a windows screenshot on page 4415:52
thkochAre zope people using Windows?15:52
Theuninot very much15:53
Theunii wonder why there is a windows screenshot15:53
Theuniphilipp typically uses mac os x15:53
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thkochIs it possible to run Zope3 on Apache istead of the given Server?15:55
Theunitheoretically yes, practically there's no code that does it.15:56
Theunihowever, you can run zope3 *behind* apache and that's a common approach.15:56
Theunie.g. using modproxy/modrewrite15:56
thkochI come from PHP and I like the fact that every request starts a new process which is terminated afterwards. This way you've a clean overview how the request runs throug your application15:56
Theuniforget about that ;)15:56
thkochI'll continue tomorrow with Zope3. But running over windows screenshots in the zope book and the definitive guide to plone doesn't raise my confidence in zope.15:59
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* benji hopes thkoch doesn't run across any screenshots of OS/2 and die of a brain aneurysm16:04
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Tonteria__what are the significant advantages of zope 3, comparing it with zope 2 ?17:38
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ignasTonteria__: it's better!17:42
ignasand i have heard that you get more virgins when you die if you use Zope317:42
benjioh, now ignas; you should be more informative than that...17:42
benjiit's 50% better (3/2 = 1.5)17:42
softdevrhi, can I use currently use zope3 as a development tool for real projects - for example can zope 2 products be used?17:43
Tonteria__hmm, when i died i guess im not in the mood to be intim with zombie virgins anymore17:43
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benjiTonteria__: advantages: better for python programmers; disadvantages: worse for through-the-web development17:44
ignasTonteria__: Zope3 gives you better job security - there are a lot of Zope2 developers and resources, and you can't count active Zope3 application developers on your fingers :)17:44
ignass/can't count/can count17:45
ignasso you develop a complex application using wonderful Zope3 component architecture17:45
ignasand it can be easily extended and maintained by any Zope3 programmer17:46
ignasand there aren't many of those ;)17:46
Tonteria__ah thank you, recently im forced to use zope 2, if im impressed i will use version 3 in future17:46
ignasall in all - Zope3 gives you very nice tools to factor your application into loosely coupled parts working together17:47
ignasso if you are working on a big complex systems it is a lot easier to manage that complexity using Zope317:47
ignaswhile at the same time you get to deal with quite a lot of complicated subjects even if all you want to do is a very small and simple application17:48
benjistrangely enough, Tonteria__, if you're impressed by Z2, you might not like Z3; the inverse is also true17:48
mgedminit's easiest to think about Z2 and Z3 as totally different products17:49
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benji...with Z2 slowly consuming and being reformed by Z317:49
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dlkI think it's called "embracing and extending"17:51
ignasyes, the ugly brother is eating the popular one :)17:51
ignasbecause he's bigger and stronger17:51
dlkyup. It's a common pattern in the industry :-)17:51
benjimore like the more popular brother is converting to the religion of the more philosophical, but not yet as popular brother17:52
dlksame same but different :)17:52
Tonteria__did you choose zope because you are ambitioned python programmers ?17:53
mgedmineating Z2 from the inside... have you seen "Alien"?17:54
ignasmgedmin: soon Zope3 will start laying eggs !17:54
ignasTonteria__: no, not really, company I work for was using Zope3 and now i have a Zope3 based application i have to develop :)17:55
dlklaying eggs is old-school technology. Live birth is the new thing, as demonstrated by Alien 4 :)17:55
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ignasdlk: someone should add support for Live birth to buildout17:56
dlkindeed. Our own way of building "turn key" solutions: "Live Birth(tm)"17:57
ignasnow i am just pulling some eggs and waiting for them to go *pop*17:58
dlkmaybe that is not such a bad idea. Ship a couple of example apps, simple but fully functional demo apps...17:58
* mgedmin just implemented revert17:58
mgedminoh my, svn switch sucks so hard :/18:00
* mgedmin kicks subversion some more18:02
mgedminoh, apparently "svn: Cannot replace a directory from within" actually means "dude, you're running svn up in a branch that was removed from the repository"18:03
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dlkaha! nice to see that kerberos style error messages are used by svn too...18:08
Theuniit also sometimes means "dude, you're running update ona directory that was added but not checked in yet" ;)18:17
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whitzenwryly: tiks might have something for this. zope2 does19:41
whitthe schema approach would be nicer than Flon or z219:42
benjieither whit is talking to himself, or I'm semi-deaf19:43
whitirc lag ;)19:43
benjia little bit of both then :)19:44
zenwrylywhit: tiks?19:45
whitbut the site is down apparently19:46
whitit's a cms built on z3 that uses marker order to control behavior in many cases19:46
ccombmarker ? you mean marker interfaces ?19:49
* mgedmin imagines developers reordering coloured markers by the whiteboard to control cms behaviour19:51
Theunithe site doesn't look very zope3ish19:51
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zenwrylywhit: thanks20:01
whitTheuni: it's plone I think20:02
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Theuniwhit: at least cmf20:14
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Tonteria__how i can import *.zexp files in Linux ? there is the hint, that i have to create /import in the insallation directory, but it does not have an effect22:33
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srichterTonteria__: wrong channel; try #zope22:54
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softdevrhi, I asked this before but didn't catch anyones interest.  How useful would you consider zope3 at the moment - there doesn't seem to be made components available for it at the moment.  Therefore I guess I could build well organised systems with it, but there I'd have to build any application-domain packages myself, e.g. a user login system, online ordering system etc.?22:59
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srichtersoftdevr: several companies exclusively use Zope 3 for all new development (for example: Zope Corp. and Lovely Systems)23:01
softdevrare they releasing zope3 packages?23:02
srichterof course23:02
srichtersee svn.zope.org23:02
srichterthere are a lot of packages there23:02
softdevrah ok, apologies. I could only a few are shown on
srichteryeah, we do not use that way of releasing23:05
srichtermost packages are available in the Python cheeseshop, but not all23:05
srichtersome you can only use directly from svn23:05
srichteryou also want to check out for a few other Zope 3 packages23:06
ccombthe zope3 packages are not enough visible from the outside23:06
srichterfeel free to write a Website listing them all; that would be really great!23:07
ccombit would be great23:07
ccombmaybe something that would automatically retrieve the readme files from the repository and reformat them23:08
ccombbut I understand there are other priorities for the moment23:08
softdevrwell it certainly wasn't clear to me before you pointed that out - and it a significant factor in assessing zope323:08
srichteralso parse the file for the meta data23:08
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softdevrit might make for a suitable app to make while learning zope3, I'll keep it in mind23:10
ccombis there a way to know the current state of packages ? (stability, usability, etc.)23:10
srichterin my experience pretty much all packages in the zope, z3c, lovely and zc namespace are stable and work with the Zope 3 trunk23:11
srichterthere might be a few that are outdated, but I am not aware of any23:11
srichtermost of those packages are used in production23:11
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