IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2007-10-03

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tjshaving trouble with the egg for 3.4.0b504:06
tjsfailing to compile _proxy.c04:06
tjsjust trying out zopeproject, is anyone responsible for that around?04:07
strichtertjs: linux?04:10
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tjsyep, feisty04:11
tjscan pastebin the error if that helps04:11
tjsnm I'm an idiot04:25
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baijumsrichter, ayt ?08:31
baijumsrichter, Can you bump version number in trunk for the package you released recently ?
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baijumsrichter, If release is '3.4.0', use '3.4.1dev' as next version08:33
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* wiggy ponders adding an Ipv4 field to zope.schema12:06
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baijumsrichter, ping ?16:11
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srichterbaijum: pong16:12
baijumsrichter, Can you please bump version number in trunk for the package you released recently ?16:12
baijumsrichter, If release is '3.4.0', use '3.4.1dev' as next version16:12
srichterbaijum: why? there was no consensus last week, and I Find version bumping totally stupid16:13
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srichteryou cannot anticipate the next release16:13
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baijumsrichter, hmm.. but we need a consensus ...16:14
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srichterbaijum: of course we do; I check the tags in SVN anyways to amke sure16:15
srichterbaijum: what I really want is a tool16:16
baijumsrichter, I agree, a tool would be good16:16
srichterbaijum: then it is totally irrelevant what the trunk version is16:16
srichterbaijum: and then, ... I want a Zope 3 something that let's me define a stable set :-)16:21
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baijumsrichter, if you are using buildout, you can use versions option to pin down versions16:23
srichterbaijum: yep, I know; I need this for the releases already :-(16:24
srichterbaijum: I just need to create some sort of Zope 3 meta-egg or whatever you want to call it and set versions on them16:25
srichterand figure out a way I can run all the tests for every package in that configuration16:25
baijumyou can use zc.recipe.testrunner recipe for that, just list all eggs you want there16:26
srichterbaijum: right, that's just very tedious; it would be nice, if it would build that buildout.cfg for me from the dependencies16:27
baijumyou want to test only dependencies or all packages in Zope 3 ?16:28
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baijumIf you want to test all packages, you can use extends option along with testrunner in which extends points to a url which lists all packages to be tested16:30
srichterbaijum: I want to create a set of packages (with their version numbers) that resemble a classic Zope 3 release16:31
srichterbaijum: I want to be able to run all tests in that set to ensure they work together well16:31
baijumhmm...may be another recipe might be the way to go ...16:32
srichterbaijum: yeah, I have not thought about it very hard16:32
srichterbut basically, I want a package manifest, which then generates pretty much everything for me16:33
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srichterbaijum: do you know how I can setup a global egg cache for buildout, so that it does not constantly store the same package again16:44
ignassrichter: eggs-directory = /home/ignas/.buildout-eggs in [buildout] section works for me16:45
baijumsrichter, You mean eggs-directory option in buildout ?16:45
ignasnot sure what's the right way though16:45
srichterbaijum: ignas can I have this entry in my .buildout.cfg as well?16:46
ignashmm, what's .buildout.cfg ?16:46
srichterI meant /.buildout/default.cfg16:47
* ignas goes to try out16:47
ignascool it works :D16:48
ignasi guess i should move my .buildout-eggs to .buildout/eggs now :)16:49
baijumsrichter, may be you can also use newest = false option16:49
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srichterbaijum: for what?16:50
baijumsrichter, from buildout doc: With this setting, buildout will not seek16:50
baijum    new distributions if installed distributions satisfy it's16:50
baijum    requirements.16:50
srichterbaijum: right, newest = false generically is a bit dangerous though16:51
srichterI prefer the explicit -N option16:51
ignasa question16:52
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ignasimporting ZopeMessageFactory from the old location16:53
ignasis giving deprecation warnings16:53
ignasthat tell you to import it from zope.i18n16:53
ignasthough philikon told me that it's a bad idea16:53
ignasshould the warning be fixed?16:53
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baijumignas, where was the old location of ZopeMessageFactory ?16:54
srichterignas: I don't think it is a bad idea at all16:54
srichterbaijum: it was in
srichterwhich pulled ina  alot of stuff16:55
srichterI think we moved it to zope.i18nmessageid16:55
baijumnow it is in zope.i18nmessageid, is it ?16:55
srichterbecause any package worrying about i18n uses zope.i18nmessgeid16:55
baijumah. ok16:55
srichterit was a compromize to massively reduce inter-dependencies16:55
ignassrichter: the point is that zope.i18nmessageid only has that factory since 3.4.216:56
ignasand most people do not update dependencies16:56
ignasand such "fix" for the warning16:56
ignasis not really backwards compatible16:56
srichterwhy not?16:56
srichterwe do this all the time16:56
srichterremove from one location and move it to another16:56
srichterand provide a warning in the old location16:57
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ignasyes, but every package that starts using the new location, should at least explicitly state that it need the version of the new location package16:57
ignasthat is new enough16:57
srichteryep, you are probably right :-(16:58
srichteroh man, this all sucks16:58
ignasand when you download 3.5.0a3 for example you suddenly realise that it does not work with your16:58
ignaszope.i18nmessageid 3.4.016:59
ignasthat's not a hypothetical example ;)17:00
srichteroh, I know17:00
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srichterthis is the perfect example, why we need to keep track of a stable set17:01
srichterthe situation will not get better, just worse17:01
ignasin my very humble opinion17:01
srichterthe more development diverges from the trunk the worse the issue will get17:01
ignasthe assumption that everyone who can commit, should have the right to release17:02
ignasis a bit flawed :(17:02
srichterI don't think so17:02
ignaseveryone who has right to commit should be able to release N.N.Ndev eggs17:02
srichterI think we are blaming people, where we should blame the lack of tools17:03
ignasi think releasing is inherently complex17:03
ignasin svn17:03
srichterI have already spent at least 15 working days dealing with eggs; if we would have one large Zope trunk, this is the time I would spent for 3 full release cycles (including alphas and betas)17:03
ignasyou can revert a wrong commit17:03
ignasyou can't unrelease an egg17:04
srichterthe problem is that we lack man-power17:04
srichterI pointed out the issue back when eggs started and was ignored17:04
baijumsrichter, I agree17:04
srichterwe effectively have something like a Linux distribution now17:05
ignasa bad one :(17:05
srichterthere are a lot of people trying to get a Linux distribution right17:05
srichterignas: yep17:05
srichterlooking at Linux distros I realize we need some staging mechanism17:06
srichterI think a Zope 3 meta-egg (or whatever form it would take) that tracks a stable set would be a first good step17:06
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ignasyes, otherwise done the right way an egg release is way too difficult to be left to everyone, i mean - every egg must be tested with all the eggs in it's "dependency range"17:07
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ignasi don't even know how to do that, but releasing an new version of an egg so i would be sure i won't break schooltool, without having access to schooltool code seems very hard to do17:08
ignasthough that's what should be done when releasing a "stable" 3.4.2 or 3.4.3 for example egg17:09
srichteryep, exactely17:09
srichterthis was exactely Roger's complaint17:10
ignasi am wondering how you will resolve evolution issues17:12
srichterignas: manually by slowly updating a stable set17:12
ignasyou see i think - evolution scripts will have to be split up among packages17:12
ignasand if that happens17:12
ignasyou won't have control over the order of execution of evolution scripts anymore17:13
srichterabsolutely, they have to be split up17:13
srichterI agree17:13
srichterit is very sad to see that none of those issues were worked out before17:13
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wiggyhow do you test for a permission?17:16
ignascanAccess and canWrite17:17
wiggycustom permission17:17
ignasit's for custom permissions17:18
ignaslook at the signature17:18
ignashmm, ok, maybe not17:18
ignaswell - it is not checking for a permission17:18
wiggylooks like I have to use checkPermission17:19
ignasit is checking whether you have access to the attribute17:19
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wiggywhat permission does canAccess check?17:25
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ignaswiggy: it's a capability based check17:31
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wiggybut what manages that capability?17:31
ignasit checks whatever permission was required to "read" that attribute was set in zcml17:31
ignaslook at class directives17:31
ignasso if you set that to access "title" of an object you need "" permission17:32
* wiggy has zalchemy objects here, non-ZODB17:32
ignasthere is no difference17:32
wiggyand I need to combine dynamic locales roles into that17:32
ignasyou still have <class > directives17:32
ignasit will check if currently logged in principal17:32
ignashas this permission17:32
wiggywhere is that stuff defined?17:33
ignasso it will translate into  "check what permission is needed to read this attribute" and checkPermission("permission", object)17:33
ignaswhich stuff?17:33
wiggythe <class> stuff which control this17:33
wiggyso I can look up the right syntax to us17:33
ignasoh, zcml directives17:33
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* wiggy suspects that breaks with grok stripping security proxies17:36
ignasyes canAccess will break17:36
wiggybut I can sort that out17:37
ignasbecause the first step is performed by security proxy17:37
ignasor maybe not, hmm17:37
wiggynow.. if you would also happen to know how local roles work :)17:37
ignasyou should try it17:37
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ignaswiggy: no idea, sorry, i am using a custom security policy for more than a year already17:37
* wiggy is hoping for an adapter that returns a list of local roles for a principal17:38
ignasand roles come in the checkPermission step17:38
ignasprincipal has an attribute that lists all the ids for roles he has iirc17:38
wiggyno, only groups17:38
ignasoh, yes17:39
ignasjust saw that17:39
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ignaswiggy: the logic for checking roles is described in the class ZopeSecurityPolicy17:42
ignasbut it's a bit convoluted17:42
ignasfor very high values of a bit ;)17:42
wiggythe trick seems to be IPrincipalRoleMap(parent, None)17:43
wiggywhich is queried in cached_principal_roles17:43
ignasyes, indeed17:44
ignasif you will be modifying it in a running application17:45
ignasand storing roles <-> principal pairs in the database17:45
ignasdo not forget to clean it up when a principal is removed ;)17:46
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wiggyI'm not storing anything17:47
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wiggyhow does one grant a role to a group through python?19:38
wiggyI was expecting a IPrincipalRoleManager utility, but that isn't there19:39
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TresEquiswiggy: you could look at what the ZCML handlers do19:57
wiggyfinally figured it out19:57
wiggytook me 5 hours to implement user management and security for a grok app19:57
wiggythe pain of learning a new environment19:57
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redirwiggy I feel your pain20:09
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rockyanyone know the traditional way to feed the "extra" information into a menuItem or subMenuItem ?21:29
rockydoesn't look to be a zcml attribute21:29
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wiggyit's a dictionary passed in as a parameter to the constructor21:32
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rockywiggy: indeed, but that means there's no way to use zcml to include or somehow generate the "extra" information which seems odd since the directive callbacks take it as an argument21:34
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wiggyno idea21:36
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wiggyfor some reason we can't use that zcml in plone 3 anyway21:36
spythonHi, I'm have a zopecomponent in which you add stuff via a function "setMessage(...)" how do I create an "addform" for this?21:38
spythonI can't use AddForm because no object is actually created, right?21:38
wiggyjust use a custom save method21:38
spythonjust override create ?21:39
spythonand return None in it21:39
spythonand run setMessage(...) in it..21:39
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spythonhmm, this isn't working22:10
spythonwiggy: can you be a bit more specific? :O22:10
wiggyjust look at what zope.formlib does22:10
spythonah found the error...AddForm.nextURL is accessing self.context.nextURL ... which doesn't exist22:12
spythonyeah, need to read the source some more22:12
WebMavensrichter: ping22:15
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