IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2008-10-02

« Wednesday, 2008-10-01 Index Friday, 2008-10-03 »
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fRiSisrichter: hi stephan13:32
fRiSi is there a default way for providing default (example) values for your z3c.form fields and the validator knows that these defaults need to be replaced with "real" data?13:34
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srichterfRiSi: hey13:40
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srichterfRiSi: you can write a custom data converter for your field which interprets special values13:41
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* mintsauce is in a muddle with component names again.....14:39
lisppaste6mintsauce pasted "traceback" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/6777614:39
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mintsauceI've tied to copy the gocept demo and project into my code (http://svn.zope.org/gocept.registration/trunk/src/gocept/registration/?rev=84662), the first page and layers work fine, but when i submit i get that missing component error.14:41
mintsauceregistrations = zope.component.getUtility(gocept.registration.interfaces.IRegistrations) is the code it seems to have problems with ...14:42
afd___mintsauce: http://svn.zope.org/gocept.registration/trunk/src/gocept/registration/demo/application.zcml?rev=84662&view=markup14:43
afd___there's a <utility /> registration there14:43
afd___you need to do the same thing14:44
afd___but14:44
afd___I think you're supposed to create a Registrations object in the zodb14:44
afd___and register it for the IRegistrations interface14:45
afd___because Registrations is a persistent object14:45
mintsauceyeah ... as it is it just points to the gocept code further down the directory structure? The demo should work with just the code it that directory?14:46
mintsauceahhhh14:46
* mintsauce feels pennies dropping14:46
mintsauceHow would i then address that object in the utility zcml?14:47
afd___you don't14:47
afd___no zcml registration needed.. you go in the zmi to the Registration tab, and register it as an unnamed utility for the IRegistrations interface14:47
mintsauceok ...14:48
afd___this will make it so that when you do zope.component.getUtility(IRegistrations), you get that object14:48
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mintsauceafd___: first issue - i hace no IRegistrations in my Registration tab (Register a folder)14:59
afd___what about gocept.registration.interfaces.IRegistrations?15:00
mintsauceno, but hang on a sec....15:00
mintsauceby which I mean, i think i've done something wrong, back in a bit, dont hang on tenterhooks in the meantime ;)15:01
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fRiSisrichter: hi15:12
* fRiSi is back from lunch 15:13
fRiSihttp://docs.carduner.net/z3c.form/ seems to be down, srichter15:13
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fRiSihi rocky ;-)15:13
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fRiSihey benji. you've talked about manuel? at dzugt. is there some repos or download so i can have a look at it?15:34
benjifRiSi: I've not gotten it released yet; I'll try to do it in the next week and announce on zope-dev15:34
mintsauceafd___: thought i'd done something wrong in build out - but no gocept.registration.interfaces.IRegistrations in the registrations tab anywhere ....15:35
fRiSiif i understood you correctly, it also offers you to do run a specific part of a docfiletest, right?15:35
afd___mintsauce: then, that's a problem. Make sure zope loads the gocept.registration package15:36
mintsauceTo double check, added gocept.registrations package and requirements to buildout, rebuilt, gone to root level in zmi, clicked Registiration.15:36
mintsaucehmmm .... importchecker only shows gocept.registration.interfaces15:37
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srichterfRiSi: I let Paul know15:40
fRiSithx srichter15:41
mintsauceafd___: if i run bin/instance debug - import gocept.registration - i get no errors ...15:41
afd___mintsauce: then do it programatically. You only need to do this once, when you setup the site15:44
benjifRiSi: there's nothing like that now; you may be remembering the idea to add isolation to doctests using it; that shouldn't be too hard15:44
afd___sm = context.getSiteManager()15:44
afd___sm['registrations'] = Registrations()15:45
afd___sm.registerUtility(sm['Registrations'], IRegistrations)15:45
fRiSibenji: so what's the advantage of using manuel instead of sphinx?15:45
fRiSioh.. the readable output15:45
* fRiSi forgot about that15:46
benjiright, manuel is about making nice docs that are also testable; it should be usable with sphinx as well15:46
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Theunibenji: ping16:04
benjihi, Theuni16:04
Theuniif you don't mind, i'm gonna merge sebastian's testbrowser branch to the trunk. we'd like to change some more stuff and don't want that branch to continue developing.16:05
benjiI meant to review that branch.  Darn.16:05
benjiSure, have at it.16:05
Theunik. thanks.16:05
TheuniWe're gonna teach it some multi-window capabilities ... :)16:06
benjiinteresting16:08
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Theunibenji: i'll make the versions a little less pinned for zc.testbrowser's library buildout, if you don't mind16:11
Theuniotherwise it can't pickup newer setuptools, buildout ...16:11
benjiI'd prefer either pin the new versions or switch to using the KGS16:11
Theuniless work, so i'll pin the new versions for now, although doing that on library packages ... well ...16:12
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pyqwerprojekt01: Hi, sorry for disturbing you - but do you know if there is some schema for Money available?16:49
projekt01no16:49
projekt01I think srichter implemented a curency package in z3c, but not sure16:50
pyqwerprojekt01: Ah, ok, I'll look at that. Othwerwise I'll have to do it on my own - schema.Decimal is inappropriate, btw.16:50
projekt01why?16:51
pyqwerprojekt01: Silly thing: If someone accidentally has a browser set to "EN" and inputs an amount of "12,25", the resulting Decimal is 1225.16:52
pyqwer(Because numbers in english can be represented by 1,000.25)16:53
pyqwerAnd the comma is ignored.16:53
projekt01are you sure? if so that's a bug in z3c.form data converter16:54
bigkevmcdOr human error?16:54
pyqwerprojekt01: Yes, I am sure.16:54
pyqwerprojekt01: But it's not really an error, isn't it?16:54
projekt01Ok, then we need to fix this16:54
projekt01it is16:55
pyqwerWhy? English speaking people may input commas.16:55
pyqwerSomething like 100,000 is allowed, I think.16:55
bigkevmcdyip16:55
bigkevmcdas is 1,00016:55
pyqwerRight.16:55
bigkevmcdwhich is commonly written like that16:55
pyqwerAlthough, something like 1,00 is not, I assume.16:55
ktwilightin belgium it's 1.000,00 ;)16:56
pyqwerktwilight: so it is in german/austria.16:56
projekt01the data converter whould convert the input like it converts the outout to the right value. For date e.g. 31/1/2008 or 1/31/200816:56
projekt01whould/should16:56
ktwilightalso why some banks have two columns instead.16:56
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pyqwerWell, for money, it's a little different. My bank requires to specify cents, so, somethin like "1000" is not allowed.16:57
pyqwerHere in Austria, I have to write "1000,00".16:57
bigkevmcdcan't you capture [1000] [00] ?16:58
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pyqwerbigkevmcd: You mean, making to input fields?16:58
bigkevmcdtwo, yes16:58
ktwilightthat's what i meant too :)16:59
pyqwerbigkevmcd: Hmmm, projekt01 suggested not to do that for usability reasons, moreover, I'd need to create a specific widget for z3c.form for that, which is maybe not even possible.16:59
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pyqwerI've seen both solutions at online banking systems.17:00
projekt01pyqwer, the DecimalDataConverter does the formatting, does this really not work?17:00
ktwilightthink of when you're doing international banking. in US doing online belgian banking, and due to the feature of autodetection formatting, you're screwed :)17:01
pyqwerprojekt01: I did not test that at low-level, I just entered 1000,25 in one of my z3c.form based forms (Decimal Schema) and the resulting value was 100025.17:02
ktwilightminute though can be significant depending.17:02
projekt01probably we need to change the pattern for decimal and split on any separator for decimal part17:02
projekt01but I still think if you use the right sepearator for the right language is should work17:03
pyqwerprojekt01: Hmmm, I'm still unsure how to circumvent the problem by that.17:03
bigkevmcdpyqwer: What locale was your browser set to at the time?17:03
pyqwerbigkevmcd: To "EN". (And we forgot and thought it was set to "DE").17:03
projekt01there is also a NumberParseError supported17:04
bigkevmcdpyqwer: so, PEBKAC ?17:04
pyqwerbigkevmcd: Some sort of ;-)17:04
projekt01Ah, I think that could be a bug in our Zope language handling17:05
projekt01I think we do not handle this correct in zope17:05
bigkevmcdthat would appear to be the correct fix17:05
bigkevmcdrather than second-guessing17:05
pyqwerBtw., (if there's anybody native english-speaking), how would one write a birthdate in english?17:06
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bigkevmcddd/mm/yyyy17:07
bigkevmcdor, more usually, dd/mm/yy17:07
projekt01I'm pretty sure that the fomatter can depend on the browser langauge settings and the negotiator depends on something else e.g. session17:08
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projekt01this is because an adapter (don't know which on) reads the langauage settings not from INegotiator17:08
projekt01pyqwer, are you using sessions17:09
pyqwerbigkevmcd: Hmmm, that's the next problem: In Austria, people would write, dd.mm.yyyy.17:09
pyqwerprojekt01: Yes, I use sessions.17:09
bigkevmcdpyqwer: It's a common problem, and it's been solved...17:09
bigkevmcdit just needs a bit of work17:09
pyqwerbigkevmcd: How is that?17:10
bigkevmcdthat's what i18n is for17:10
bigkevmcdand why browsers send language and locale information17:10
pyqwerbigkevmcd: Hmmm, not really - for english I'd use the 'date' format 'short', which is M/d/yy.17:11
pyqwerbigkevmcd: But for Austria, the format 'short' is dd/mm/yy - which is inappropriate.17:12
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pyqwerbigkevmcd: If I set it to 'medium', it's dd/mm/yyyy for 'DE', but for 'EN', it's "MMM d, yyyy", which is totally inappropriate.17:12
bigkevmcdpyqwer: but that's purely down to personal preference17:13
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pyqwerbigkevmcd: Hmmm, but who would enter a birth date in english like 'SEP 5, 1970'?17:15
pyqwerThat's probably something no one will be able to manage, what do you think?17:15
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fsufitchhi everyone17:17
fsufitchi have a question about file uploading to a zope instance17:17
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fsufitchmy application needs to be able to attach a file to a Message object; right now I'm using zope.schema.Bytes for the attribute related to the attachment, and formlib to render the input17:18
pyqwerprojekt01: I'm still don't understand why Zope / z3c.form should have a bug here: The locale was set to 'EN' and we accidentally input 1000,25 - whereas the comma was removed. The only thing that seems wrong to me is that something like 1000,25 is invalid for "EN", only something like "1000,025" is allowed.17:18
* benji really likes YYYY-MM-DD, but only very geeky Americans -- like him -- agree.17:18
fsufitchthe problem is that the filename isn't kept, so when other users want to download it, they can't get the right file/mimetype17:19
* fsufitch is a very geeky American17:19
pyqwerbenji: So, US/English people can then not tell out of a birthdate of e.g. 05/01/07 if someone is 101 years old or 1 year old?17:19
projekt01pyqwer, first you have to find out if the correct locale get used in the formatter17:20
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pyqwerprojekt01: But, why do you assume that the wrong locale was chosen here?17:21
fsufitchanyway, do i have to use zope.app.file.interfaces.IFile along with zope.schema.Object ? if so, how do i manage the widget? if not, how can i just get the filename so i can write an adapter to do the download for me?17:21
pyqwerprojekt01: When I switched my browser to "DE" and input the same number, it was stored perfectly.17:21
benjipyqwer: I'm not sure I understand the question, but the almost universal format used by normal people is MM/DD/YY17:21
projekt01if you say that an invalid value didn't raise an exception, then abad configured formatter is used17:22
pyqwerbenji: Hmmm, here in Austria (and probably germany) it's DD.MM.YYYY (so that one can tell if someone is > 100 years old).17:22
benjiyeah, MM/DD/YYYY isn't uncommon17:22
pyqwerprojekt01: Well, the question is, if "100,25" _is_ an invalid value for locale="EN".17:22
projekt01pyqwer, I see, don't know exactly17:23
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pyqwerbenji: Yes, I thought so - but that format is not available in the 'EN'-locale, at least the counterpart of 'DE'-DD.MM.YYYY is the weird format "MMM d,yyyy".17:23
benjiright, people don't ever enter/write dates like that17:24
pyqwerprojekt01: I mean, to me this looks invalid, as I assume digits have to be grouped in groups of 3.17:24
pyqwer(and then seperated by group delimiters, e.g. ',' for english, '.' for german).17:24
* benji wonders if ISO 8601 is reasonable for pyqwer.17:24
projekt01pyqwer, but remember zope doesn't handle correct formatting if the INegotiatior returns a different language then the browser does17:25
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projekt01because formatting doesn't depend on INegotiator which is a bug. That hits you if you use session based laguage switching17:26
fsufitchmy time is up here, if anyone has an answer to my question, they can find my contact info on launchpad.net. my username is the same as here17:28
fsufitchthanks in advance! :)17:29
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pyqwerbenji: ;-) ISO 8601, well...17:43
pyqwerprojekt01: Ah, I thought you meant if I use sessions at all. No, I don't use session-based language switching - didn't know that this is possible...17:45
projekt01z3c.language.* and friends offer session based language switching17:45
pyqwerbenji: Well, the problem is probably not ISO 8601 is unsuitable, the problem is that the english equivalent of DD.MM.YYYY in german is MMM d,yyyy which probably no one will be able to enter in my form.17:46
pyqwerprojekt01: Ah, I did not know that.17:46
benjipyqwer: what if the form only accepted 8601, no matter what locale the user has?17:47
pyqwerprojekt01: I'll at first have a look at srichters z3c.currency and hope that he implemented a stronger checking.17:47
pyqwerbenji: Hmmm, yes, that's maybe also a possibility.17:47
pyqwerSo, that would be YYYY-MM-DD for the birthdate, then.17:48
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pyqwerbenji: Another options could be to use the "short" format for english (MM/DD/YY) and the "medium" format for german (DD.MM.YYYY), but I don't know how to switch between them in my schema.17:50
projekt01pyqwer, note: if you don't use a hard coded formatter pattern and you are using JS fancy widgets for date selection, your JS has to provide that formatter pattern too17:50
pyqwerprojekt01: Hmmm, true.17:50
projekt01I think zc.calendar or something offers the Mishoo calendar widget which is very smart implemented for doing formatting17:51
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projekt01but I recommend to use a hard coded formatter pattern if possible and announce it a in the widget label17:52
projekt01then you can easy raise an exception/user error if the pattern doesn't fit17:53
pyqwerprojekt01: Yes, that's a good Idea. I'll have a look at it.17:56
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pyqwersrichter: Hi, I'm just trying out your z3c.currency package (btw., thanks for that!). However, when buildout fetches it it seems that the configure.zcml is not included, as the TextWidget cannot be looked up. Any clue why?18:08
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mintsauceI'm (still) trying to use geocept.registration - should I be able to drop the package include into my buildout and setup.py and expect to see something in the zmi registrations?18:10
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