IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2009-04-28

« Monday, 2009-04-27 Index Wednesday, 2009-04-29 »
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thekornhi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to aks this question, but: where can I report bugs about z3c.recipe.sphinxdoc?15:37
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benjithekorn: the zope-dev mailing list: zope-dev@zope.org and http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev15:39
thekornbenji, aha, thank you, will post it there15:40
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tarekJ1m, ping18:15
J1mpong18:16
tarekHi J1m !18:16
J1mHi.18:16
* J1m will likely be pulled into a meeting soon.18:16
tarekfor zc.buildout for the tests, (the bootstrap.py) I need to deactivate the normalizer to check for the installed zc.buildout version18:17
tarekso I'd like to have a dedicated doctest (likely bootstrap.txt)18:17
tarekwith the existing test and the one i'll add18:17
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J1mThat's fine.18:17
tarekand deactivate the normalizer that bugs me right now18:17
tarekok thx18:17
J1mk18:17
J1mgotta go18:17
tarekhave a good meetin gthen :)18:17
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J1mhathawsh, ayt?20:03
hathawshJ1m: yes20:03
J1mI'm trying to figure out a good way to:20:03
J1m- prevent people from accidentilly creating cross database references20:04
J1m- without making them write software.20:04
J1mover20:04
hathawshyeah that's a bit tough20:04
J1mI'm having difficulty thinking of a way to so that.20:04
hathawshan alternative I thought of was an application callback20:04
J1mHm, that's not a bad idea.20:05
hathawshsomething attached to the DB20:05
J1mThat would work for some apps.20:05
hathawshit would still be software, but they wouldn'20:05
hathawshwouldn't have to change Persistent classes20:05
J1mright, wouldn't have to muck up their classes.20:05
hathawshit could work almost exactly like the _p_check_xref support I wrote.20:06
J1mZODB already uses events (minimally).20:06
hathawshooh yeah20:06
J1mIt could just generate an event when it sees a cross-database refernce.20:06
hathawsh+120:06
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J1mOK, do you want to update the proposal? Or shall I. I'd like to wrap up 3.9, today if possible.20:07
J1mMaening I want to freeze 3.9 features.20:07
hathawshright20:07
hathawshHow about I update the proposal and you do the implementation.20:08
J1m+120:08
hathawshok I'll do that now, should only take < 10min.20:09
J1mk20:09
J1mhathawsh, note that I'd like to do something better in the long term.20:17
hathawshoh yeah?20:17
J1mBut I think this is a fine short term solution.20:17
hathawshJ1m: what is the long term vision?20:18
J1mIMO, the ideal use case for there to be a way for an application to make an explicit reference and, once that's done, for the app to not need to do anything else.20:18
J1mThis will require storing some extra meta data (or, alternatively a way to look at old state).20:18
J1mtyping is hard :)20:19
J1mIMO, the ideal use case _is_for there to be a way for an application to make an explicit reference and, once that's done, for the app to not need to do anything else.20:19
hathawshok, I see20:19
J1mBut that requires a bigger change than I want to make this late.20:19
J1mAnd I think the event idea will be an improvement over what we have now.20:20
J1mwhich is nothing :)20:20
davisaglihathawsh: hey, thanks for giving this some attention, and for your recent advice on the zodb-dev list20:20
hathawshdavisagli: np20:21
hathawshJ1m: how's this for an interface...20:21
J1mIt's worth noting...20:21
hathawsh    class ICrossDatabaseReferenceEvent(Interface):20:21
hathawsh        source = Attribute("The object holding the reference")20:21
hathawsh        target = Attribute("The target of the reference")20:21
* J1m waits...20:21
J1msure, although I'd skip the enterface and just define an event class.20:22
J1mBut the interface is OK too.20:22
hathawshok20:22
davisaglihathawsh: last night I modified the export code to walk a multidatabase following cross-db references, and it looks like I only have 2 cross-database references actually.  so I may opt for targeted cleanup rather than a generalized export script20:22
hathawshdavisagli: that's good news20:22
J1mSo, I'll note:20:23
hathawshdavisagli: I thought you might be in trouble :-)20:23
davisaglihathawsh: yep, good news assuming my db walker is correct :)20:23
J1mOne could do old-style Zope 2 mounts without using multi-databases.20:23
hathawshJ1m: true20:23
J1mThat is, once could support application level mounts using individual databases that aren't part of a multi-database.20:23
J1mWe probably should ahve stuck with that for Zope 2.20:24
J1mhave20:24
hathawsh_v_ attributes break if you do that, though20:24
hathawshthat's what led to all this :-)20:24
J1mHow so?20:24
hathawshmulti-databases ensure that connections stay bound to each other20:25
hathawshif you make a _v_ reference between arbitrary connections, who knows whether the same connection will be used later20:25
* J1m tries to remember the issues there ...20:26
hathawshhowever...20:26
J1mwell you wouldn't want references of any kind sans multi-databases ...20:26
J1mThere's also an issue of connection management.... which is doable, but messy.20:27
hathawshone could set up a multi-database, disallow all cross-database references, then use conn.get_connection() to traverse "mount points".20:27
hathawshThat would be a good solution for lots of stuff20:28
J1mtrue20:28
J1myup20:28
J1mThis feels like the best short-term solution.20:29
hathawshok20:29
J1mso just add a db option to disallow cross-database references?20:30
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hathawshJ1m: that might be enough20:30
hathawshJ1m: I just sent the revised proposal based on events20:31
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J1mI see.20:32
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hathawshJ1m: this proposal has a lot of generality.  If you want a simple per-database flag that disallows all xrefs, I think that will solve my immediate problem just as well.20:37
J1myup. Thinking...20:37
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J1mOK, here's another idea.20:41
J1mAdd a flag to disable cross-database references.  If the flag is set and a reference is encountered, load the old state and allow the reference if it is in the old state.20:42
hathawshthat could be a very tricky dance20:42
J1mThe state should generally be handy, since it was used to build the object in the first place.20:42
J1mWhy?  We have the object id and the old serial number.  We can get the state from the storage.20:43
J1mThere could also be an API to register the reference, to handle new references.20:44
J1mThis is more work, but I have a feeling that it is cleaner.20:44
J1mAnd, of course, there could be an interim step of adding the flag, which solves your problem.20:45
hathawshI don't know quite where to put that code... ObjectWriter is the thing that discovers xrefs, but it doesn't have a reference to the connection20:45
hathawshbut if you think you can manage it, I agree, it's better20:45
J1mI hate the serializer module :)20:45
J1mor serialize or whatever20:45
hathawshI know :-20:45
hathawsh:-)20:45
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hathawshCome to think of it, this will act a lot like the conflict resolution code.20:49
J1mYup, sort of.20:51
hathawshOk, I'm going to work on other stuff.  Thanks for looking at this.20:51
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J1mlikewise20:52
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