IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2009-04-28

« Monday, 2009-04-27 Index Wednesday, 2009-04-29 »
*** Theuni2 has quit IRC00:03
*** malthe|Z_ has joined #zope3-dev00:07
*** jhauser has quit IRC00:18
*** benji has quit IRC00:22
*** malthe|Zzz has quit IRC00:23
*** aaronv_ has quit IRC00:24
*** nathany has joined #zope3-dev00:26
*** iham has joined #zope3-dev00:27
*** iham has quit IRC00:36
*** malthe|Z_ has quit IRC00:39
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev00:41
*** aaronv has joined #zope3-dev00:41
*** dunny_ has joined #zope3-dev00:52
*** malthe|Z_ has joined #zope3-dev00:53
*** cshenton has quit IRC00:59
*** dunny has quit IRC01:00
*** nathany has quit IRC01:11
*** lucielejard has quit IRC01:12
*** jamur2 has quit IRC01:28
*** lurkymclurkleton has quit IRC01:32
*** danielblackburn_ has joined #zope3-dev01:37
*** danielblackburn has quit IRC01:37
*** J1m has quit IRC01:44
*** allisterb__ has quit IRC01:44
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev01:44
*** aaronv has quit IRC01:51
*** harobed has quit IRC02:00
*** baijum has quit IRC02:07
*** redir has quit IRC02:31
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev02:44
*** sm has joined #zope3-dev02:46
*** runyaga has quit IRC02:53
*** jfkw_ has joined #zope3-dev02:58
*** jfkw has quit IRC03:02
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev03:17
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hazmat03:17
*** runyaga has joined #zope3-dev04:06
*** sm has quit IRC04:10
*** dbfrombrc is now known as dbfrombrc|away04:11
*** replicant has joined #zope3-dev04:33
*** alecm has quit IRC04:34
*** davisagli has left #zope3-dev04:44
*** hazmat has quit IRC04:48
*** dbfrombrc|away is now known as dbfrombrc05:16
*** davisagli has joined #zope3-dev05:16
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev05:17
*** alecm has joined #zope3-dev05:27
*** alecm has quit IRC06:04
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev06:18
*** jfkw_ has quit IRC06:32
*** jayaraj has joined #zope3-dev06:39
*** jayaraj has quit IRC06:46
*** vinsci_ has joined #zope3-dev06:52
*** vinsci has quit IRC07:09
*** afd__ has joined #zope3-dev07:10
*** pcardune has joined #zope3-dev07:27
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev07:44
*** gary_poster has quit IRC07:47
*** sm has joined #zope3-dev08:00
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope3-dev08:08
*** jhauser has joined #zope3-dev08:18
*** redir has quit IRC08:24
*** jukart has quit IRC08:25
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev08:26
*** sm has quit IRC08:30
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC08:32
*** Theuni2 has joined #zope3-dev08:32
*** Theuni2 has quit IRC08:33
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope3-dev08:34
*** runyaga has quit IRC08:35
*** dbfrombrc is now known as dbfrombrc|away08:36
*** tisto has joined #zope3-dev08:41
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev08:42
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC08:44
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev08:47
*** junkafarian has quit IRC08:55
*** iham has joined #zope3-dev09:03
*** tarek has quit IRC09:08
*** __mac__ has joined #zope3-dev09:16
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope3-dev09:20
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev09:21
*** basti__ has joined #zope3-dev09:29
*** tarek has quit IRC09:32
*** malthe|Z_ is now known as malthe10:04
*** greenman has joined #zope3-dev10:05
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev10:06
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev10:22
*** iham has quit IRC10:27
*** tarek has quit IRC10:31
*** harobed has joined #zope3-dev10:32
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev10:36
*** afd___ has joined #zope3-dev10:42
*** andycat has quit IRC10:55
*** andycat has joined #zope3-dev10:55
*** pyqwer has joined #zope3-dev10:56
*** pcardune has quit IRC10:58
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev10:59
*** andycat has quit IRC10:59
*** andycat has joined #zope3-dev10:59
*** afd__ has quit IRC11:02
*** __mac__ has quit IRC11:02
*** __mac__ has joined #zope3-dev11:04
*** thetet has joined #zope3-dev11:08
*** tarek has quit IRC11:08
*** El_Rolando has joined #zope3-dev11:09
*** andycat has quit IRC11:12
*** andycat has joined #zope3-dev11:12
*** mgedmin has joined #zope3-dev11:22
*** romanofski has quit IRC11:22
*** pelle_ has joined #zope3-dev11:23
*** ignas has quit IRC11:35
*** pelle___ has quit IRC11:41
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev11:57
*** greenman has quit IRC11:59
*** iham has joined #zope3-dev12:02
*** junkafarian has joined #zope3-dev12:09
*** andycat has joined #zope3-dev12:10
*** tarek has quit IRC12:11
*** afd___ has quit IRC12:13
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev12:30
*** ktwilight_ has joined #zope3-dev12:34
*** ktwilight has quit IRC12:34
*** dunny_ has quit IRC12:35
*** afd_ has joined #zope3-dev12:40
*** philiKON has quit IRC12:53
*** mgedmin has quit IRC12:58
*** mgedmin has joined #zope3-dev12:59
*** jukart has quit IRC13:03
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev13:27
*** olavgg1 has quit IRC13:29
*** El_Rolando has quit IRC13:38
*** thetet has quit IRC13:38
*** JaRoel|4_ has joined #zope3-dev13:38
*** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC13:40
*** MrTopf has joined #zope3-dev13:44
*** Count-Duckula has joined #zope3-dev13:54
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev14:03
*** iham has quit IRC14:03
*** tarek has quit IRC14:05
*** agroszer has quit IRC14:10
*** philiKON has joined #zope3-dev14:10
*** aaronv has joined #zope3-dev14:14
*** MrTopf has quit IRC14:14
*** JaRoel|4_ has quit IRC14:19
*** alga has quit IRC14:19
*** jhauser has quit IRC14:19
*** replicant has quit IRC14:19
*** malthe has quit IRC14:19
*** danielblackburn_ has quit IRC14:19
*** pyqwer has quit IRC14:19
*** harobed has quit IRC14:19
*** mkerrin has quit IRC14:19
*** markusleist has quit IRC14:19
*** JaRoel|4_ has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** pyqwer has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** harobed has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** jhauser has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** replicant has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** danielblackburn_ has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** malthe has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** markusleist has joined #zope3-dev14:21
*** iham has joined #zope3-dev14:24
*** gary_poster has joined #zope3-dev14:25
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev14:43
*** jukart has quit IRC14:49
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev14:49
*** thetet has joined #zope3-dev14:51
*** MJ has joined #zope3-dev14:53
*** philiKON has quit IRC15:03
*** flox has joined #zope3-dev15:05
*** philiKON has joined #zope3-dev15:08
*** jpcw has joined #zope3-dev15:16
*** benji has joined #zope3-dev15:27
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev15:28
*** romanofski has quit IRC15:34
*** thekorn has joined #zope3-dev15:35
thekornhi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to aks this question, but: where can I report bugs about z3c.recipe.sphinxdoc?15:37
*** romanofski has joined #zope3-dev15:37
benjithekorn: the zope-dev mailing list: zope-dev@zope.org and http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev15:39
thekornbenji, aha, thank you, will post it there15:40
*** BjornT has quit IRC15:47
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev15:50
*** lurkymclurkleton has joined #zope3-dev15:58
*** Aiste has joined #zope3-dev15:59
*** redir has quit IRC16:00
*** yotaff has quit IRC16:01
*** jpcw has quit IRC16:02
*** jamur2 has joined #zope3-dev16:02
*** jpcw has joined #zope3-dev16:04
*** baijum has joined #zope3-dev16:13
*** J1m has quit IRC16:19
*** faassen has joined #zope3-dev16:42
*** replicant has quit IRC16:42
*** afd_ has quit IRC16:43
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev16:54
*** thetet1 has joined #zope3-dev16:55
*** yotaff has joined #zope3-dev16:59
*** MrTopf has joined #zope3-dev17:00
*** thetet has quit IRC17:12
*** benji has quit IRC17:12
*** romanofski has quit IRC17:14
*** redir__ has joined #zope3-dev17:15
*** benji has joined #zope3-dev17:15
*** danielblackburn_ has quit IRC17:20
*** danielblackburn has joined #zope3-dev17:21
*** redir has quit IRC17:21
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev17:22
*** lucielejard has joined #zope3-dev17:28
*** faassen has quit IRC17:32
*** alecm has joined #zope3-dev17:33
*** faassen has joined #zope3-dev17:33
*** tisto has quit IRC17:37
*** basti__ has quit IRC17:38
*** faassen has quit IRC17:40
*** faassen has joined #zope3-dev17:40
*** thetet1 has left #zope3-dev17:41
*** mkerrin has quit IRC17:43
*** dbfrombrc|away is now known as dbfrombrc17:44
*** zagy has quit IRC17:46
*** thekorn_ has joined #zope3-dev17:56
*** pelle_ has quit IRC17:57
*** iham has quit IRC17:59
*** jukart has joined #zope3-dev18:00
*** baijum has quit IRC18:01
*** MrTopf has quit IRC18:01
*** __mac__ has quit IRC18:05
*** flox has quit IRC18:07
*** jukart has quit IRC18:07
*** __mac__ has joined #zope3-dev18:09
*** thekorn has quit IRC18:12
*** dbfrombrc is now known as dbfrombrc|away18:12
*** zagy has joined #zope3-dev18:14
tarekJ1m, ping18:15
J1mpong18:16
tarekHi J1m !18:16
J1mHi.18:16
* J1m will likely be pulled into a meeting soon.18:16
tarekfor zc.buildout for the tests, (the bootstrap.py) I need to deactivate the normalizer to check for the installed zc.buildout version18:17
tarekso I'd like to have a dedicated doctest (likely bootstrap.txt)18:17
tarekwith the existing test and the one i'll add18:17
*** dbfrombrc|away is now known as dbfrombrc18:17
J1mThat's fine.18:17
tarekand deactivate the normalizer that bugs me right now18:17
tarekok thx18:17
J1mk18:17
J1mgotta go18:17
tarekhave a good meetin gthen :)18:17
*** thekorn_ is now known as thekorn18:18
*** runyaga has joined #zope3-dev18:35
*** pyqwer has quit IRC18:40
*** Aiste has quit IRC18:42
*** nathany has joined #zope3-dev18:48
*** malthe is now known as malthe|Zzz18:49
*** jpcw has quit IRC18:51
*** hathawsh has joined #zope3-dev18:55
*** JaRoel|4_ has quit IRC18:55
*** alga has quit IRC18:56
*** __mac__ has quit IRC18:57
*** davisagli has quit IRC18:58
*** tarek has quit IRC19:05
*** yotaff has quit IRC19:10
*** philiKON has quit IRC19:12
*** afd_ has joined #zope3-dev19:16
*** kaeru has quit IRC19:18
*** kaeru has joined #zope3-dev19:18
*** hathawsh is now known as hath|away19:19
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev19:24
*** iham has joined #zope3-dev19:34
*** hath|away is now known as hathawsh19:35
*** davisagli has joined #zope3-dev19:36
*** iham has quit IRC19:39
*** alecm has quit IRC19:41
*** mgedmin has quit IRC19:46
*** Count-Duckula has left #zope3-dev19:51
*** harobed has quit IRC19:56
J1mhathawsh, ayt?20:03
hathawshJ1m: yes20:03
J1mI'm trying to figure out a good way to:20:03
J1m- prevent people from accidentilly creating cross database references20:04
J1m- without making them write software.20:04
J1mover20:04
hathawshyeah that's a bit tough20:04
J1mI'm having difficulty thinking of a way to so that.20:04
hathawshan alternative I thought of was an application callback20:04
J1mHm, that's not a bad idea.20:05
hathawshsomething attached to the DB20:05
J1mThat would work for some apps.20:05
hathawshit would still be software, but they wouldn'20:05
hathawshwouldn't have to change Persistent classes20:05
J1mright, wouldn't have to muck up their classes.20:05
hathawshit could work almost exactly like the _p_check_xref support I wrote.20:06
J1mZODB already uses events (minimally).20:06
hathawshooh yeah20:06
J1mIt could just generate an event when it sees a cross-database refernce.20:06
hathawsh+120:06
*** Theuni2 has joined #zope3-dev20:06
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC20:06
J1mOK, do you want to update the proposal? Or shall I. I'd like to wrap up 3.9, today if possible.20:07
J1mMaening I want to freeze 3.9 features.20:07
hathawshright20:07
hathawshHow about I update the proposal and you do the implementation.20:08
J1m+120:08
hathawshok I'll do that now, should only take < 10min.20:09
J1mk20:09
J1mhathawsh, note that I'd like to do something better in the long term.20:17
hathawshoh yeah?20:17
J1mBut I think this is a fine short term solution.20:17
hathawshJ1m: what is the long term vision?20:18
J1mIMO, the ideal use case for there to be a way for an application to make an explicit reference and, once that's done, for the app to not need to do anything else.20:18
J1mThis will require storing some extra meta data (or, alternatively a way to look at old state).20:18
J1mtyping is hard :)20:19
J1mIMO, the ideal use case _is_for there to be a way for an application to make an explicit reference and, once that's done, for the app to not need to do anything else.20:19
hathawshok, I see20:19
J1mBut that requires a bigger change than I want to make this late.20:19
J1mAnd I think the event idea will be an improvement over what we have now.20:20
J1mwhich is nothing :)20:20
davisaglihathawsh: hey, thanks for giving this some attention, and for your recent advice on the zodb-dev list20:20
hathawshdavisagli: np20:21
hathawshJ1m: how's this for an interface...20:21
J1mIt's worth noting...20:21
hathawsh    class ICrossDatabaseReferenceEvent(Interface):20:21
hathawsh        source = Attribute("The object holding the reference")20:21
hathawsh        target = Attribute("The target of the reference")20:21
* J1m waits...20:21
J1msure, although I'd skip the enterface and just define an event class.20:22
J1mBut the interface is OK too.20:22
hathawshok20:22
davisaglihathawsh: last night I modified the export code to walk a multidatabase following cross-db references, and it looks like I only have 2 cross-database references actually.  so I may opt for targeted cleanup rather than a generalized export script20:22
hathawshdavisagli: that's good news20:22
J1mSo, I'll note:20:23
hathawshdavisagli: I thought you might be in trouble :-)20:23
davisaglihathawsh: yep, good news assuming my db walker is correct :)20:23
J1mOne could do old-style Zope 2 mounts without using multi-databases.20:23
hathawshJ1m: true20:23
J1mThat is, once could support application level mounts using individual databases that aren't part of a multi-database.20:23
J1mWe probably should ahve stuck with that for Zope 2.20:24
J1mhave20:24
hathawsh_v_ attributes break if you do that, though20:24
hathawshthat's what led to all this :-)20:24
J1mHow so?20:24
hathawshmulti-databases ensure that connections stay bound to each other20:25
hathawshif you make a _v_ reference between arbitrary connections, who knows whether the same connection will be used later20:25
* J1m tries to remember the issues there ...20:26
hathawshhowever...20:26
J1mwell you wouldn't want references of any kind sans multi-databases ...20:26
J1mThere's also an issue of connection management.... which is doable, but messy.20:27
hathawshone could set up a multi-database, disallow all cross-database references, then use conn.get_connection() to traverse "mount points".20:27
hathawshThat would be a good solution for lots of stuff20:28
J1mtrue20:28
J1myup20:28
J1mThis feels like the best short-term solution.20:29
hathawshok20:29
J1mso just add a db option to disallow cross-database references?20:30
*** agroszer has quit IRC20:30
*** agroszer has joined #zope3-dev20:30
*** faassen has quit IRC20:30
hathawshJ1m: that might be enough20:30
hathawshJ1m: I just sent the revised proposal based on events20:31
*** harobed has joined #zope3-dev20:31
J1mI see.20:32
*** stub has quit IRC20:36
hathawshJ1m: this proposal has a lot of generality.  If you want a simple per-database flag that disallows all xrefs, I think that will solve my immediate problem just as well.20:37
J1myup. Thinking...20:37
*** sawdog has quit IRC20:38
J1mOK, here's another idea.20:41
J1mAdd a flag to disable cross-database references.  If the flag is set and a reference is encountered, load the old state and allow the reference if it is in the old state.20:42
hathawshthat could be a very tricky dance20:42
J1mThe state should generally be handy, since it was used to build the object in the first place.20:42
J1mWhy?  We have the object id and the old serial number.  We can get the state from the storage.20:43
J1mThere could also be an API to register the reference, to handle new references.20:44
J1mThis is more work, but I have a feeling that it is cleaner.20:44
J1mAnd, of course, there could be an interim step of adding the flag, which solves your problem.20:45
hathawshI don't know quite where to put that code... ObjectWriter is the thing that discovers xrefs, but it doesn't have a reference to the connection20:45
hathawshbut if you think you can manage it, I agree, it's better20:45
J1mI hate the serializer module :)20:45
J1mor serialize or whatever20:45
hathawshI know :-20:45
hathawsh:-)20:45
*** MJ has quit IRC20:49
hathawshCome to think of it, this will act a lot like the conflict resolution code.20:49
J1mYup, sort of.20:51
hathawshOk, I'm going to work on other stuff.  Thanks for looking at this.20:51
*** junkafarian has quit IRC20:52
J1mlikewise20:52
*** iham has joined #zope3-dev20:59
*** ignas has joined #zope3-dev21:00
*** flox has joined #zope3-dev21:00
*** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope3-dev21:03
*** iham has quit IRC21:07
*** pelle_ has joined #zope3-dev21:16
*** baijum has joined #zope3-dev21:24
*** junkafarian has joined #zope3-dev21:25
*** brandon_rhodes has joined #zope3-dev21:25
*** ignas has quit IRC21:26
*** __mac__ has joined #zope3-dev21:27
*** Theuni2 has quit IRC21:31
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope3-dev21:31
*** iham has joined #zope3-dev21:34
*** thekorn has quit IRC21:34
*** thekorn has joined #zope3-dev21:40
*** J1m_ has joined #zope3-dev21:48
*** jayaraj has joined #zope3-dev21:49
*** jayaraj has quit IRC21:52
*** hathawsh is now known as hath|away21:53
*** J1m has quit IRC21:55
*** davisagli has quit IRC21:59
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev22:04
*** redir__ has quit IRC22:06
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev22:07
*** hath|away is now known as hathawsh22:11
*** davisagli has joined #zope3-dev22:14
*** iham has quit IRC22:15
*** afd_ has quit IRC22:20
*** thekorn has quit IRC22:20
*** thekorn has joined #zope3-dev22:22
*** nathany has quit IRC22:45
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC22:50
*** Theuni2 has joined #zope3-dev22:50
*** __mac__ has quit IRC22:51
*** Theuni2 has quit IRC22:52
*** Theuni1 has joined #zope3-dev22:52
*** aaronv has quit IRC23:08
*** agroszer has quit IRC23:09
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev23:16
*** redir has quit IRC23:19
*** redir has joined #zope3-dev23:20
*** thekorn has quit IRC23:39
*** nathany has joined #zope3-dev23:41
*** baijum has quit IRC23:43
*** Theuni1 has quit IRC23:43
*** baijum has joined #zope3-dev23:46
*** lucielejard has quit IRC23:53
*** cbcunc has joined #zope3-dev23:58
« Monday, 2009-04-27 Index Wednesday, 2009-04-29 »

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!