IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2009-05-28

MFenhmm. and this thing wants to download and install playtools from pypi instead of using the one i've got sitting right here00:00
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MFenthis seems like a very basic question about buildout: what do i put in the tarball i upload to pypi if i want easy_install foo to install foo and do extra stuff?05:34
MFen"extra stuff" means basically "run these recipes which fetch and create data files in various ways". the parts they need would be distributed with my application, but making setuptools do them is a hassle and making buildout do them was relatively simple05:35
MFenunfortunately there's this gulf or disconnect between the two concepts. i just want easy_install foo to put the entire framework on someone's computer, everything ready to use.05:36
MFenmaybe what i want is easy_install playtools_installer and then run /usr/bin/playtools_installer which does everything else? is that a thing?05:42
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mcdoncMFen: no "easy buckets" here, you have to do the work either way... either via buildout recipes or through something that does like you says and installs an installer05:44
MFenright. i *did* the buildout recipes. that went great, very easy. what i don't understand is how this all goes into the *distribution* of my software :)05:44
mcdoncMFen: it doesnt05:44
mcdonceither they run buildout, or they dont05:45
MFenat some point i need to upload something to pypi, so someone can easy_install playtools and have all this stuff happen.05:45
mcdoncand if they dont, they dont get your nice build05:45
MFenok, so playtools_installer is actually a proxy for buildout i assume05:45
MFenor.. this chimeric i keep hearing about but can't actually find05:46
mcdoncthats up to you pretty much... i think the grok folks have done something like that via "grokproject"05:46
MFenthat might make sense. i think my use case is similar to theirs05:47
mcdoncthe closest thing to being able to install "an application" via eggs is via buildout05:48
mcdonceasy_install is fine for installing libraries05:48
mcdoncbut it doesnt help with the "extra stuff"05:49
MFenindeed it does not05:49
mcdonc(config files, etc)05:49
MFenwhy does nobody like to help with the extra stuff :(05:49
MFenalthough i guess buildout will help, just slightly less help than i wanted05:49
mcdoncwe use svn+buildout05:49
mcdoncit works05:50
mcdonc"if you want to instal this thing, check this thing out and run buildout"05:50
mcdoncnot elegant but it does the job05:50
MFenis there a big repository of ready-made buildout recipes somewhere i can tap into? having a ready-made svn, hg, bzr or twisted.trial recipe would be quite handy05:50
mcdonconly the ones on pypi... may have more info05:51
mcdoncor not.. it doesnt seem to have links to existing recipes05:51
mcdoncbut maybe pypi has a category for them05:52
MFeni just got the gleam of an idea that i can use recipe = some.random.package and buildout will figure out where to get it. is that true at all?05:52
mcdoncit is05:53
mcdoncwell at least if its on pypi05:53
MFenyeah, no doubt05:53
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MFenheh, the top (latest) package on pypi is some dude's recipe for installing his application05:55 tools seems to have lots of them05:56
MFenok, so here's another disconnect05:58
MFeni have this lovely set of dependencies set up for playtools05:59
MFendo i keep them in, move them into buildout.cfg as egg parts, both?05:59
mcdoncif they're dependencies of the code in playtools itself, keep them there06:05
mcdoncthe stuff in buildout.cfg is for "deployment" (where you might need "extra stuff")06:06
mcdoncbut if playtools imports code from something, its should name it06:06
MFenok, makes sense06:06
MFenwhat about stuff that's only used by my testing framework? i'm tempted to put that into buildout.cfg06:07
MFeni.e. "fudge" is not imported by any library code but the tests will fail without it06:07
mcdoncno good answer; could be an "extra", could go in buildout.cfg, good go in "tests_require"06:07
MFenwhat the heck is tests_require?06:08
mcdoncsetuptools thing06:08
mcdoncthere's no good answer06:08
MFenso if you were me, would you write to require buildout, and then write a script that invokes buildout with the right arguments to do the rest?06:10
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MFenif i type "develop = ." does . refer to the directory the cfg file is in or the directory i'm in when buildout runs?07:03
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MFenwhy do i get DistributionNotFound when buildout>setuptools attempts to install the dependencies of my package?07:48
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MFenAttributeError: Options instance has no attribute '_buildout'08:06
MFenseriously, what's with all these weird exceptions?08:06
MFeni can't believe what i'm doing is so weird that nobody has tried it before. i'm just installing software08:06
MFenneed some informative error handling up ins08:07
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svennI have a zc.recipe.egg:custom question, I get13:10
svennError: Referenced option does not exist: numpy location13:10
svennthe buildout look like this13:10
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Theuni1svenn: I haven't seen the zc.recipe.egg to have a location option.13:40
Theuni1is that documented?13:40
svennI was looking at this13:41
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svennTheuni1: Is there an other why to specify the location of an egg?13:47
Theuni1svenn: I don't think the egg-location will help you13:47
Theuni1because the includes will probably not be there13:48
svennThueni: they are I think. If I use a absoulute path to my eggs-dir and the numpy egg it works13:49
J1mwe really could use a download-archive recipe13:49
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svennThueni1: this work (line 15)14:00
svennJ1m: is there a locaion option or did I missunderstand the tutorial?14:01
J1mIn the tutorial, the cmmi provides a location option so other recipes can find out where it installs things.14:02
J1mSo there is a location option in the cmmi recipe, but it is computed.14:03
J1mdoes that help? :)14:05
svennYes, I'll try to use the cmmi recipe instead, thanks.14:05
Theuni1J1m: for that usecase?14:05
J1mTheuni1, I don't know what use case y'all are discussing.14:06
Theuni1heh, so for what usecase do you want the download-archive recipe?14:06
J1mor even what you're asking me.14:06
J1mwell, I want it for things like js libraries.14:07
Theuni1svenn: i figured it could be that the egg might expose that information, but my expectation that eggs usually don't do that14:07
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J1mBut others might want it for getting other random files like include files.14:07
J1minclude files for things that have bit don't install include files.14:07
svennThueni1: yes, I guess that's usually the case14:09
J1mThis is a bit of a hole in the egg story -- an understandable one.14:09
J1mMaybe buildout should try to do more here.14:10
svennThat would be nice :-)14:10
J1mGiven the difficulties of getting setuptools on py3 I've been pondering having buildout rely on setuptools less and doing more with vanilla distutils distros.14:11
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J1mFor example, if there was buildout:include-dir and/or buildout:lib-dir option, it could try to install packages so they stuck their includes and libs there.14:13
J1mOr, I suppose, there could be a special egg-installation recipe for packages that had these and buildout could install the files in a corresponding part dir.14:13
J1mThat could be done today with a suitably written recipe.14:14
J1mgotta go14:14
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