| flox | harobed: about Catalog, u can look the zope/app/catalog/browser/README.TXT | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| WebMaven | edgordon: it's the difference between an 'order' and a 'special order'. | 00:00 |
| xenru | harobed: from my point of view because they not first on this market | 00:00 |
| flox | it explains how zope.app.intids, zope.index and zope.app.catalog are mixed together | 00:00 |
| xenru | and they come for more money on Java market | 00:00 |
| edgordon | yeah, i have them both. but i just think it is important for people who are only casually interested for them to be sitting on the shelf | 00:00 |
| xenru | harobed: zope3 is perfect product, but last years you need to belive in it, and only last year use | 00:02 |
| harobed | xenru, your are nexuo ingenior ? | 00:03 |
| xenru | no | 00:03 |
| WebMaven | edgordon: here is something sneaky: Order the book, look at it when it comes in, then don't buy it. It then goes on the shelf. | 00:04 |
| edgordon | oh, right | 00:04 |
| philiKON | WebMaven, no it doesn't | 00:04 |
| philiKON | at least not in germany | 00:04 |
| philiKON | here it would go back to the publisher | 00:04 |
| xenru | harobed: I havn't any relations with Nuxeo or their developers | 00:05 |
| WebMaven | Here in the states, it depends on the chain, and what sort of distinction they make between an 'order' and a 'special order'. | 00:05 |
| philiKON | k | 00:05 |
| WebMaven | A store has some discretion as to what they stock. if a title is one that a chain does stock, but (by chance or design) not in your local store, it will stay in the store. | 00:06 |
| philiKON | right, ok | 00:07 |
| WebMaven | usually, this has something to do with whether it is kept by the distributor in their warehouses. | 00:07 |
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| xenru | Aiste: hi | 00:08 |
| xenru | Aiste: r u here? | 00:08 |
| Aiste | xenru: yes, hya | 00:09 |
| harobed | why nuxeo remplace ZODB by JCR ? | 00:09 |
| harobed | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_repository_API_for_Java | 00:10 |
| WebMaven | harobed: their rationale is pretty clearly stated in their announcement. | 00:14 |
| harobed | ok, it's because ZODB can't work with more 3T of data | 00:15 |
| olarcheveque | I found irc log about zope3 and AMF... where I can find some doc about it? | 00:15 |
| WebMaven | Umm, no. | 00:15 |
| philiKON | harobed, if i had 3T of data, i wouldn't use the zodb, but i would still use zope perhaps | 00:15 |
| rocky | nuxeo fell under industry pressure imho | 00:16 |
| WebMaven | harobed: and that's not what they said. | 00:16 |
| WebMaven | olarcheveque: AMF? | 00:17 |
| olarcheveque | protocol to link with flash | 00:18 |
| philiKON | rocky, something like that | 00:18 |
| WebMaven | rocky: Seems more like customer pressure. | 00:19 |
| rocky | in this case i believe they're one in the same | 00:19 |
| WebMaven | rocky: OK. | 00:20 |
| WebMaven | What's really odd is that the rationale they're using made more sense 2 years or so ago. | 00:21 |
| WebMaven | These days, more integration efforts are centering on REST-like SOAs. | 00:21 |
| WebMaven | I know of one company here in the US that came under this very same kind of pressure from their customers a few years ago, and they made the switch. | 00:23 |
| WebMaven | But their productivity suffered so much, they switched back to Zope. | 00:23 |
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| WebMaven | they just told their customers that if they wanted the rapid turnaround and flexibility that they were providing, only Zope would cut it. | 00:24 |
| WebMaven | So now they have a very good answer to the question "Why don't you swith to Java or .NET?" | 00:25 |
| harobed | what is it ? | 00:26 |
| philiKON | harobed, WebMaven just explained | 00:27 |
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| philiKON | read it again :) | 00:27 |
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| harobed | for my case, I work in small web agency. Currently, our developpement are in PHP. Next, what is the best choise : Java or Zope 3 ? | 00:29 |
| philiKON | harobed, what do you expect us to say | 00:29 |
| harobed | :) Zope | 00:29 |
| philiKON | bingo | 00:30 |
| edgordon | yeah, sort of the wrong place to ask that | 00:30 |
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| flox | harobed: do zope, even if u do not trust the zodb | 00:31 |
| harobed | but size of my data isn't big | 00:31 |
| flox | i hv some worries about slowness of ZODB.... | 00:32 |
| harobed | flox, and ? | 00:32 |
| flox | when ZODB becomes large | 00:32 |
| harobed | what is your solution ? | 00:32 |
| flox | ucan choose a relational DB, as well | 00:32 |
| harobed | switch is easy ? | 00:33 |
| flox | PostgreSQL, or other open source or commercial packages | 00:33 |
| xenru | If you have so mush data then you can use other storages | 00:33 |
| flox | harobed: sqlalchemy should help | 00:33 |
| flox | but i did not try myself (yet) | 00:33 |
| xenru | launchpad ppl use it | 00:34 |
| flox | u heard about "Object-Relational Mapping"? | 00:34 |
| flox | i read a good article, some time ago, where someone explain his experience with Zope and SQLAlchemy | 00:35 |
| flox | successful experience, of course | 00:35 |
| flox | harobed: See comment #16 on this blog post | 00:36 |
| flox | harobed: http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=23 | 00:36 |
| edgordon | harobed, i was moving from zope 2, but my first z3 project used sqlos and I feel it went pretty well. | 00:38 |
| harobed | flox, yes, I know this post | 00:41 |
| xenru | edgordon: can u gimme some advice about sqlos? I don't know much about this project may be links or a little description? | 00:41 |
| flox | ergordon: i guess that there's 2 leader ORM package for Zope | 00:42 |
| flox | either ('sqlos' + SQLObject) or ('z3c.zalchemy' + SQLAlchemy) | 00:42 |
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| flox | it lacks a feature/performance comparison.... | 00:43 |
| edgordon | yeah, i can't remember what i read that scared me off from sqlalchemy | 00:43 |
| edgordon | the SIP app is a pretty good starting point for a sqlos app | 00:43 |
| edgordon | reading through that really helped me figure stuff out | 00:44 |
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| xenru | flox: do you know how they store objects in database? | 00:47 |
| edgordon | bye all | 00:47 |
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| xenru | as table with many rows or as one pickled object? | 00:47 |
| flox | xenru: i did not try yet... | 00:47 |
| flox | i just read that information, and i prepare to use it, as soon as i hv time for that | 00:48 |
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| xenru | ok, thx anyway | 00:48 |
| xenru | AFAIK, boston.com is on zope | 00:48 |
| xenru | is this true? | 00:49 |
| J1m | yes | 00:49 |
| xenru | what you use as storage? | 00:49 |
| oferw | xenru: hi | 00:49 |
| xenru | oferw: hi | 00:49 |
| J1m | zodb | 00:50 |
| oferw | xenru: you looking for z3 examples? | 00:50 |
| flox | J1m: not for media, i guess? | 00:50 |
| J1m | for stories, not images | 00:50 |
| flox | on our project, we store SVG and JPEG in the ZODB.... | 00:51 |
| flox | i guess it is bad design | 00:51 |
| J1m | no | 00:51 |
| J1m | it isn't | 00:51 |
| J1m | we have a number of customers in which we store images. | 00:51 |
| xenru | no, I'm looking for possible solutions for our project here in moscow, it will be something like boston.com and youtube | 00:51 |
| J1m | really big files are problematic. | 00:51 |
| J1m | but images aren't that big. | 00:51 |
| flox | J1m: true | 00:52 |
| oferw | xenru: you know what youtube is based on? | 00:52 |
| flox | J1m: we have done a load test, last week... | 00:52 |
| flox | not many peaople connected, only 40... | 00:52 |
| flox | but some pages took very long time to load | 00:52 |
| oferw | flox: what is you site about? | 00:52 |
| xenru | oferw: no, because we need only to know how them process videos | 00:52 |
| flox | more that 1 min (on LAN) | 00:52 |
| J1m | k, make your app faster. | 00:53 |
| xenru | flox: do use cache? | 00:53 |
| flox | oferw: this is an intranet website, with documentation | 00:53 |
| flox | and with something like 'zc..comment' | 00:53 |
| flox | to put comment on documents | 00:53 |
| flox | xenru: no cachecurrently | 00:54 |
| xenru | and check are your server is in debug mode | 00:55 |
| flox | devmode, u mean? | 00:55 |
| xenru | yes | 00:55 |
| flox | yes, it was in devmode, i think | 00:55 |
| flox | but i think that devmode is only for APIDOC thing? | 00:55 |
| flox | i am wrong? | 00:56 |
| xenru | not only | 00:56 |
| xenru | may be J1m can explain you | 00:56 |
| flox | ok, and i should disable logging, too, next time | 00:56 |
| xenru | swithch off, this give you speedup | 00:56 |
| flox | it was first load test. to have an idea how it behaves with many people connected | 00:56 |
| flox | next test will be more clever | 00:57 |
| oferw | flox: all the site is based on z3? | 00:57 |
| flox | xenru, u suggest an external cache like Squid? or to use zope3 things? | 00:57 |
| xenru | we using Apache in all previous projects, but now I want to test squid | 00:58 |
| J1m | If your pages are taking a minute, there is probably something wrong with the app. | 00:58 |
| xenru | Apache taking about 95% of all requests | 00:58 |
| J1m | Or your hardware is very slow. | 00:58 |
| J1m | or both | 00:58 |
| oferw | J1m: or your pages with too much information :-) | 00:58 |
| flox | hardware was good enough (2Go RAM, and dual CPU, at least) | 00:59 |
| flox | but on Windows 2003 Server (maybe the problem) | 00:59 |
| xenru | how many memory is free? | 00:59 |
| flox | around 900 Mo free during the test, AFAIR | 01:00 |
| flox | ZOPE took around 300-400 MB all the time | 01:00 |
| flox | slightly increasing during the 1 hour test | 01:00 |
| xenru | and you can add zodb cache and add zope threads | 01:00 |
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| flox | zope threads = ZEO | 01:00 |
| flox | ? | 01:00 |
| flox | J1m: maybe the app | 01:01 |
| flox | we do lots of thing with xml.minidom and with PrincipalAnnotations | 01:01 |
| xenru | may be I missing something, but zope2 use threads, don't know how it is now with twisted | 01:02 |
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| projekt01 | xenru, did you see z3c.extfile | 01:02 |
| flox | like store a "browsing history" per user as PrincipalAnnotation | 01:02 |
| xenru | projekt01: not yet, looking | 01:03 |
| projekt01 | Jim, I heard about using ZODB without a history? Is htis possible and if yes how? | 01:03 |
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| projekt01 | xenru, it stores files in a separate filestorage and gives you the hash of the file back. | 01:04 |
| J1m | projekt01: there have been storages that that didn't keep old revisions. | 01:04 |
| J1m | I don't know if there are any now. | 01:04 |
| xenru | projekt01: many thanks, this is very useful information | 01:05 |
| projekt01 | J1m, Ok, what is your recommended way to implement a counter for a heavy visited site? | 01:05 |
| J1m | I don't have one. | 01:06 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 01:06 |
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| xenru | projekt01: we implementigh it as separate server with just C++ http server with a little functionality that only write a log files | 01:06 |
| flox | projekt01: maybe u subscribe on an event (like EndRequestEvent) and u increment some int attribute on the ISiteManager | 01:07 |
| xenru | and after that we analyse this log files | 01:07 |
| projekt01 | xenru, I guess this is a good idea | 01:08 |
| projekt01 | flox, we hav to avoide any kind of write transaction for this usecase. | 01:08 |
| flox | i see ;-) | 01:09 |
| flox | i hae DBConflicts, too | 01:09 |
| flox | s/hae/hate | 01:09 |
| projekt01 | Does anybody know if there is open source counter which can be integrated, perhaps python based | 01:10 |
| projekt01 | with integrated I mean running as a standalone app and reading counts by a interval | 01:10 |
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| * xenru hope we open one day our | 01:11 | |
| projekt01 | xenru, what do you think about a to read the apache log and count there some urls? | 01:12 |
| xenru | you can use webalizer or something commercial, or google analitics | 01:12 |
| projekt01 | hm, or write some own external app like you did. | 01:13 |
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| xenru | we analyse many aspects of user behavior, even what links on page press user and ajax hits | 01:14 |
| projekt01 | xenru, why did you not ue the Apache log files and write a own server? Any important reason? | 01:15 |
| xenru | including from what places come user, what search engines they use, what they do after they come and when return | 01:15 |
| projekt01 | is the reason to have a custom format and more info? | 01:15 |
| xenru | do you analyse how works google analitics or commercial services? | 01:16 |
| projekt01 | I just need a counter whihc can count hits. | 01:17 |
| xenru | then apache logs should be enough | 01:17 |
| projekt01 | ok, I guess I give it a try and if it's working I will add a z3c.couter package | 01:19 |
| xenru | becuse we giving session and "persistent" cookies for visitors and analyse them for a long period | 01:19 |
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| projekt01 | Ok, I see, we jut need a counter for the new release of http://video.vol.at/videos/recent | 01:19 |
| xenru | I think you should use apache logs | 01:21 |
| xenru | not on zope side | 01:22 |
| xenru | apache should cache pages before requests come to zope | 01:22 |
| oferw | projekt01: this is all z3? | 01:23 |
| projekt01 | xenru, I agree | 01:23 |
| projekt01 | oferw, what do you mean? | 01:24 |
| xenru | oferw: looks like a plone | 01:24 |
| projekt01 | porting a plone app to the next state ;-) | 01:24 |
| oferw | projekt01: if this site a based on z3 | 01:25 |
| projekt01 | this is plone site, the new version will be based on z3 with a z3 XML-RPC transcoding server | 01:26 |
| oferw | projekt01: looking good in general | 01:26 |
| projekt01 | based on lovely.remotetask which is located on zope.org at: | 01:27 |
| projekt01 | svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/lovely.remotetask/trunk/src/lovely/remotetask | 01:27 |
| projekt01 | oferw, thanks but that was not my work;-) | 01:28 |
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| oferw | projekt01: :) | 01:32 |
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| nouri | Looks like installation of zope.component from http://download.zope.org/distribution/ requires zope.testing, but it's not in the required list. | 14:20 |
| philiKON | nouri, only a testing requirement, right? | 14:21 |
| nouri | I import zope.component and get ImportError | 14:21 |
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| philiKON | hmmm | 14:21 |
| philiKON | :( | 14:21 |
| philiKON | that's certainly a bug | 14:22 |
| nouri | zope.component.site imports zope.testing | 14:22 |
| philiKON | superficially, it's a packaging bug | 14:22 |
| philiKON | nouri, hmm, sounds like you have the 3.2 eggs? | 14:22 |
| nouri | yes, are there any other eggs? | 14:22 |
| philiKON | hmm, no | 14:22 |
| philiKON | but 3.3 fixes this :) | 14:22 |
| nouri | :) | 14:22 |
| * philiKON tries to think of a way to get nouri build 3.3.0 eggs : | 14:23 | |
| philiKON | :) | 14:23 |
| * nouri tries to think of something else :p | 14:23 | |
| nouri | Seriously, I might look into this at some point, but not today nor tomorrow | 14:23 |
| philiKON | ok | 14:23 |
| philiKON | gogogo :) | 14:24 |
| nouri | In the meantime we could fix the zope.component egg, no? | 14:24 |
| * nouri has no idea where to look | 14:24 | |
| philiKON | http://svn.zope.org/zope.component/ | 14:25 |
| philiKON | you probably want the 3.2.0 tag? | 14:25 |
| philiKON | better ask tres how to proceed | 14:26 |
| J1m | faassen: did you figure out the buildout problem you were having yesterday? | 14:29 |
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| J1m | I'll try it... | 15:18 |
| J1m | worked great for me. | 15:22 |
| J1m | Here's my buildout.cfg: | 15:22 |
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| nouri | Is there an easy way to use the testrunner once zope.testing is installed? | 15:23 |
| J1m | ah | 15:23 |
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| J1m | I see what the problem is. | 15:24 |
| J1m | The documentation for custom is wrong. | 15:24 |
| J1m | Here's what worked for me: | 15:25 |
| J1m | [buildout] | 15:26 |
| J1m | parts = pl | 15:26 |
| J1m | [pl] | 15:26 |
| J1m | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 15:26 |
| J1m | egg = python-ldap | 15:26 |
| J1m | find-links = /home/jim/s/python | 15:26 |
| J1m | no aaargh | 15:26 |
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| J1m | [buildout] | 15:26 |
| J1m | parts = pl | 15:26 |
| J1m | [pl] | 15:26 |
| J1m | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 15:26 |
| J1m | eggs = python-ldap | 15:26 |
| J1m | find-links = /home/jim/s/python | 15:26 |
| J1m | well, I still don't see why this failed for you. | 15:26 |
| faassen | yes, thats' weird. | 15:27 |
| J1m | This worked for me too: | 15:27 |
| J1m | [buildout] | 15:27 |
| J1m | parts = python-ldap | 15:27 |
| J1m | [python-ldap] | 15:27 |
| J1m | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 15:27 |
| J1m | find-links = /home/jim/s/python | 15:27 |
| J1m | 15:27 | |
| J1m | (I hate this irc client.) | 15:28 |
| faassen | I have some additional sutff, like include-dirs and such. | 15:28 |
| J1m | anyway, the option to specify the eggs to get is eggs, not egg. | 15:28 |
| J1m | sure | 15:28 |
| faassen | hm, in your second recipy. | 15:28 |
| J1m | It defaults to the part name. | 15:28 |
| faassen | there's no 'egg = | 15:28 |
| faassen | line | 15:28 |
| faassen | okay. | 15:28 |
| faassen | and that's python-ldap in my case. | 15:28 |
| faassen | [python-ldap] | 15:29 |
| faassen | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 15:29 |
| faassen | egg = python-ldap == 2.2.0 | 15:29 |
| faassen | find-links = . | 15:29 |
| faassen | is what I got. | 15:29 |
| J1m | Right, which is why I don't know why it isn't working for you. | 15:29 |
| faassen | I'll change the part name, see what happens. | 15:29 |
| faassen | or first, I'll dump the 'egg' line. | 15:29 |
| J1m | One issue with buildout is that it doesn't report unrecognized options. | 15:30 |
| J1m | That's because of a missguided desire to suport ConfigParser's DEFAULT feature. | 15:30 |
| faassen | okay, removing the egg line didn't work. | 15:30 |
| faassen | [python-ldap] | 15:31 |
| faassen | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 15:31 |
| faassen | find-links = . | 15:31 |
| faassen | is what I'm trying now. | 15:31 |
| J1m | I think I'm gonna start compliaining about unrecognized options. | 15:31 |
| faassen | yeah, sounds good. :) | 15:31 |
| faassen | still no go.. | 15:31 |
| J1m | This will make DEFAULT unusable, but that's not much of a loss. | 15:31 |
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| J1m | what do you get from ls . | 15:31 |
| J1m | :) | 15:31 |
| J1m | in your buildout directory. | 15:32 |
| faassen | hm, so you have 'eggs = ' | 15:32 |
| faassen | and I have egg =? | 15:32 |
| J1m | The option is really named eggs. | 15:33 |
| faassen | okay. | 15:33 |
| J1m | But it defaults to the part name. | 15:33 |
| faassen | right.. | 15:33 |
| faassen | so that shouldn't be an issue. | 15:33 |
| J1m | egg is ignored. | 15:33 |
| faassen | okay, renamed it to 'eggs', still no luck. | 15:33 |
| J1m | right | 15:33 |
| J1m | may I see a directory listing please. :) | 15:33 |
| faassen | yes, it's rather full though, I'm trying this in an isolated buildout now. | 15:34 |
| faassen | anyway, the thing in there is: python-ldap-2.2.0.tar.gz | 15:34 |
| faassen | argh, in an isolated buildout it does work. that is, it crashes. | 15:34 |
| J1m | it crashed because it can't find the include files? | 15:35 |
| faassen | yeah, exactly. that's fine. | 15:36 |
| faassen | at least I assume it's that. | 15:36 |
| faassen | so now the question is, why didn't that work in my more extensive buidout. | 15:36 |
| faassen | directory structure coming up. | 15:36 |
| faassen | http://pastebin.com/791920 | 15:36 |
| * baijum is experimenting with MakingARelease | 15:36 | |
| baijum | J1m, I cann't run this, ../../zpkgtools/bin/zpkg -r Zope-3.3.0 -C Zope.cfg Zope (I think it's because the tag is '3.3.0' instead of 'Zope-3.3.0') | 15:36 |
| J1m | baijum: why are you doing this? | 15:37 |
| baijum | just experienting :) | 15:37 |
| J1m | I made the last zpkg-based releases yesterday, I hope. | 15:37 |
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| J1m | well, I don't have time to help you with this. | 15:38 |
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| faassen | anyway, tihs is really weird. | 15:38 |
| J1m | It is rather pointless. | 15:38 |
| faassen | it works in an isolated buildout, but in my full buildout it just fails. | 15:38 |
| J1m | I'm still waiting for that pastebin page | 15:38 |
| J1m | there it is | 15:38 |
| faassen | J1m: yeah, sorry, I should find a better paste thing. | 15:38 |
| faassen | J1m: anyway, concerning the last zpkg release, does that mean 3.3.0 final is out? | 15:39 |
| faassen | J1m: I only see a c1 on zope.org | 15:39 |
| J1m | Yes, waiting for philiKON to finish the process. | 15:39 |
| faassen | ah, cool. :) | 15:39 |
| J1m | I uploaded the tar ball and exe yesterday. | 15:39 |
| faassen | doesn't seem to be appearing yet on zope.org's zope 3 releases page yet, I guess that's philiKON's job. | 15:40 |
| J1m | Yup | 15:40 |
| * baijum saw this http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/MakingARelease and give it a try | 15:40 | |
| J1m | philiKON: philiKON | 15:40 |
| J1m | philiKON: philiKON philiKON philiKON 's job | 15:41 |
| baijum | may be the doc should be changed ? | 15:41 |
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| faassen | baijum: I think we still need to dowork on.. | 15:41 |
| faassen | J1m: heh. he left. :) | 15:41 |
| faassen | baijum: we still need to work on how it will work in the future, finalize that, before that page can be updated. | 15:41 |
| faassen | baijum: since I'm going to do maintenance releases I might bug J1m about it at some point. :) | 15:42 |
| J1m | faassen: may I see your full buildout.cfg in the larger buildout? | 15:42 |
| faassen | J1m: yes. | 15:42 |
| faassen | it's slooooow. | 15:43 |
| J1m | I noticed | 15:44 |
| faassen | http://paste.lisp.org/display/26518 | 15:44 |
| faassen | I just ran it all afresh in a clean buildout, same problem. | 15:50 |
| faassen | really weird. | 15:50 |
| faassen | hm, it doesn't appear to be the find-links in the buildout section that's interfering. I'm just trying various things out now. | 15:52 |
| J1m | Yeah, I'm at a loss. | 15:52 |
| J1m | You could try snipping things out until it works. | 15:52 |
| faassen | yeah. | 15:53 |
| faassen | trying that. | 15:53 |
| faassen | oh, concerning setting up my own test layer. I think I can see how to do that..but is there any way to get to the INSTANCE_HOME during the test running? | 15:54 |
| faassen | I want to point it to ftesting.zcml in the instance as I have absolutely no changes. | 15:54 |
| J1m | No, Zope 3 doesn't really have such a concept. | 15:54 |
| faassen | so how do I get it to load up the package includes and such? | 15:54 |
| J1m | Good question. :) | 15:55 |
| faassen | I mean, all I need is an ftesting environment equivalent to the normal one, and etc/ftesting.zcml provides this. | 15:55 |
| J1m | I'm really annoyed at myself for not getting the tests working (or at least running) in the sharing example. | 15:55 |
| faassen | anyway, for now I can hack around it by running the tests starting in the instance part. | 15:56 |
| faassen | but that's obviously sub-ideal. :) | 15:56 |
| J1m | Yeah, unfortunately, the Zope 3 functional layer makes a lot of assumptions about what cwd looks like. | 15:56 |
| J1m | which is rather lame. | 15:56 |
| faassen | yeah. | 15:57 |
| faassen | and rewriting that layer is trickier than it seems. | 15:57 |
| J1m | We really need to get away from having important data outside of Python packages. | 15:57 |
| faassen | after all, one still wants to find ftesting.zcml | 15:57 |
| faassen | J1m: tricky for package-includes :) | 15:57 |
| J1m | although this is a somewhat different issue. | 15:57 |
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| J1m | I'll have to think about the testing issue. | 16:03 |
| faassen | J1m: okay, I think I reproduced the issue. | 16:04 |
| faassen | like this: | 16:04 |
| faassen | [buildout] | 16:04 |
| faassen | parts = zope3 pl | 16:04 |
| faassen | find-links = http://download.zope.org/distribution/ | 16:04 |
| faassen | [zope3] | 16:04 |
| faassen | recipe = zc.recipe.zope3checkout | 16:04 |
| faassen | url = svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/Zope3/branches/3.3 | 16:04 |
| faassen | [pl] | 16:04 |
| faassen | recipe = zc.recipe.egg:custom | 16:04 |
| faassen | eggs = python-ldap == 2.2.0 | 16:04 |
| faassen | find-links = . | 16:04 |
| faassen | I think the zope3 recipe somehow makes the pl recipe fail to find anything. | 16:04 |
| J1m | let me see if I can reproduce that. | 16:05 |
| J1m | I can't reproduce that. | 16:09 |
| faassen | hm, interesting. | 16:10 |
| faassen | let me try again. | 16:10 |
| J1m | The only thing I can think of to try now is to log into your site and try to debug it. :( | 16:10 |
| J1m | your machine | 16:10 |
| faassen | hm, unfortunately I can't easily open it up. let me try this again. | 16:10 |
| J1m | Or you could try sending me a tar ball of your buildout. | 16:11 |
| J1m | what version of Python are you using? | 16:11 |
| faassen | python 2.4 | 16:11 |
| faassen | hand-compiled. :) | 16:11 |
| J1m | me too | 16:11 |
| faassen | yes, it's really the zope 3 recipe for me. | 16:12 |
| faassen | if I change this: | 16:13 |
| faassen | parts = zope3 pl | 16:13 |
| faassen | to this: | 16:13 |
| faassen | parts = pl zope3 | 16:13 |
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| faassen | suddenly it'll work. | 16:13 |
| J1m | oooooh | 16:13 |
| faassen | you had it the other way around? :) | 16:13 |
| J1m | change find-links = . to | 16:13 |
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| J1m | find-links = full_path_to_current_directory | 16:14 |
| faassen | okay. will try again, though yesterday I worked iwth a full path a lot. that is, a file:/// path. | 16:14 |
| faassen | now I'll try it with a non-file path | 16:14 |
| faassen | yeah, it may be that the zope 3 recipe is doing os.chdir in ther.e | 16:14 |
| faassen | and that somehow the find story depends on that. | 16:14 |
| faassen | but it's not the case. | 16:15 |
| J1m | I bet the zope3 recipe is doing a chdir and the buildout isn't reseting cwd. | 16:15 |
| faassen | well, yea,h but it's not the case. :) | 16:15 |
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| faassen | I mean, I'm pretty sure. yesterday I tried it with file:/// urls, http:// urls and still no luck. | 16:15 |
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| J1m | pretty sure doesn't count much at this point. :) | 16:16 |
| faassen | I'm confirming as we speak. | 16:16 |
| faassen | I mean, I made it a HTTP URL now. | 16:16 |
| faassen | it works if I put the pl section first | 16:16 |
| faassen | okay, interesting. | 16:17 |
| J1m | Now I can reproduce the failure using a relative path, | 16:18 |
| faassen | interesting it also fails with file:/// | 16:18 |
| faassen | it doesn't fail with http://localhost, but I'm 100% sure I had it not working for me when I tried that before, so I'm trying it in the cmplex buildout again. | 16:19 |
| faassen | yes, it still fails in my complicated buildout, even using http://localhost | 16:19 |
| faassen | which *works* in the simple buildout. | 16:19 |
| faassen | and a full file:/// url fails. | 16:21 |
| J1m | Yeah, that fails for me too. | 16:21 |
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| faassen | can one offer paths to find-links (i..e non-urls?) | 16:22 |
| faassen | yea, I know you can. | 16:22 |
| faassen | as we used ., right. | 16:22 |
| faassen | I mean: . | 16:22 |
| faassen | okay, a full path works. | 16:22 |
| J1m | yeah | 16:22 |
| faassen | but does it for my complex buildout? :) | 16:22 |
| rocky | ok, i forbid anyone to ever do monkey patches besides me... that should relieve a lot of my headache :) | 16:23 |
| faassen | rocky: okay, sounds good. then we shoot you. | 16:23 |
| faassen | rocky: problem solved. :) | 16:23 |
| rocky | :) | 16:23 |
| J1m | weirder | 16:24 |
| faassen | okay, in my complicated buildout a full path works. | 16:24 |
| J1m | If I put python-ldap on downlosd.zope.org it works. | 16:24 |
| J1m | I think I know what's going on | 16:24 |
| faassen | yeah, that's equivalent to my http://localhost? | 16:24 |
| J1m | Maybe not. | 16:24 |
| faassen | hey, weird, http://localhost works now. | 16:25 |
| J1m | But you said easy_install worked from your localhost, which is odd. | 16:25 |
| faassen | that's crazy. I know it didn't work before. | 16:25 |
| faassen | yeah, it works for sure in my test script. | 16:25 |
| faassen | but I know it failed before. I mean, I was trying lots of things and I tried this one. :) | 16:25 |
| J1m | I'll note that setuptools is picky about the content-type returned from a server. | 16:25 |
| faassen | well, this is a straight Apache directory serve thing. | 16:26 |
| faassen | yeah, now it consistently seems to find it. | 16:26 |
| faassen | bizarre. I know that didn't work before. :( | 16:26 |
| J1m | It won's scan a page that doesn't have a text/html content type/ | 16:26 |
| faassen | my http://localhost is an apache directory listing, that's HTML. | 16:26 |
| J1m | but it sounds like your localhost thing is working. | 16:26 |
| J1m | that is, specifying localhost in find-links is working. | 16:27 |
| faassen | yeah, but it didn't work before. :( | 16:27 |
| J1m | So the bugs: | 16:27 |
| faassen | I'm really confused, it must've been I somehow did something wrong and I do it right now, though. | 16:27 |
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| J1m | file urls don't seem to work. | 16:27 |
| nouri | Anyone have a good idea on what's happening here: | 16:27 |
| philiKON | so, who was looking for me eearlier | 16:27 |
| nouri | http://paste.lisp.org/display/26519 | 16:27 |
| philiKON | ever so annoyingly | 16:27 |
| nouri | On component.getUtility | 16:27 |
| nouri | AttributeError: 'GlobalAdapterRegistry' object has no attribute '_null' | 16:28 |
| J1m | buildout doesn't reset cwd after a recipe is run, which causes relative paths not to work. | 16:28 |
| faassen | philiKON: that must've been J1m :) | 16:28 |
| * nouri still trying out the zope.component 3.2 egg | 16:28 | |
| faassen | right, that definitely appears to be a bug. | 16:28 |
| J1m | 2 bugs | 16:28 |
| philiKON | nouri, you want the 3.3 egg. i know you do. make eggs. make eggs! | 16:28 |
| philiKON | :) | 16:28 |
| faassen | yeah, the second bug is a bit more surprising. :) | 16:28 |
| J1m | easy_install has a fair bit of code in it that should be down in lower layers. | 16:28 |
| faassen | as I have no idea what's up there. | 16:28 |
| philiKON | J1m, you were looking for me? | 16:28 |
| faassen | J1m: so what's the second bug? | 16:29 |
| J1m | It may be that there is some special handling of file urls that I'm not reproducing. | 16:29 |
| faassen | I guess. | 16:29 |
| J1m | philiKON: where's the release? :) | 16:29 |
| philiKON | i told you i will probably not have time before saturday | 16:29 |
| J1m | faassen: bug 1: file urls aren't handled correctly | 16:29 |
| faassen | right. | 16:29 |
| philiKON | someone else (like the 3.3 release manager *cough* faassen *cough*) can beat me to it | 16:30 |
| philiKON | but i have a book deadline monday | 16:30 |
| philiKON | which i can't miss | 16:30 |
| faassen | anyway, I'm still flabberghasted about the http://localhost issue, but I'll write that down to Martijn being confused terribly so he wasn't thinking rationally anymore. | 16:30 |
| faassen | philiKON: I'm not the 3.3 release manager. I'm the bugfix release manager. | 16:30 |
| J1m | bug2: buildout doesn't reset cwd. | 16:30 |
| faassen | philiKON: of 3.3 :) | 16:30 |
| philiKON | faassen, uh huh | 16:30 |
| faassen | philiKON: seriously, I never volunteered for Zope 3.3.0. | 16:30 |
| philiKON | point is, i don't have time before tomorrow, which i think i communicated | 16:30 |
| philiKON | faassen, yeah, i know | 16:30 |
| faassen | philiKON: I am sure it can wait for tomorrow. | 16:31 |
| philiKON | i think so too | 16:31 |
| J1m | philiKON: I thought you were going to do that. It's OK if you don't have time, but I wish I knew. | 16:31 |
| faassen | J1m: isn't tomorrow okay? | 16:31 |
| J1m | ok w me | 16:31 |
| philiKON | J1m, again, i'm pretty sure i told you that i wouldn't have time before saturday | 16:31 |
| faassen | anyway, that's all resolved, and we tracked down nefariousness in buildout. :) | 16:31 |
| J1m | I thought you were going to do it last night. | 16:31 |
| faassen | now with a freshened heart and mind, I will proceed on my quest. | 16:32 |
| J1m | It can wait till saturday imo | 16:32 |
| philiKON | ok | 16:32 |
| philiKON | J1m, i came home last night and DSL was out | 16:32 |
| J1m | faassen: I still need to figure out the testing issue. | 16:32 |
| J1m | ah | 16:32 |
| faassen | J1m: yeah, that's a problem. | 16:32 |
| philiKON | J1m, called them, they only fixed the dsl link today | 16:32 |
| faassen | J1m: okay, concerning zc.recipe.cmmi | 16:33 |
| faassen | J1m: somehow my python-ldap part kicks in and fails before the cmmi recipe is being run. | 16:34 |
| faassen | J1m: even though the openldap part comes before the python-ldap part in the parts listing. | 16:34 |
| rocky | so am i right in assuming you guys are building a buildout recipe that will setup an openldap server? or? | 16:34 |
| faassen | rocky: just a client for now. | 16:34 |
| rocky | because i'm soooo going to need this for our bigger clients running Plone ;) | 16:34 |
| faassen | rocky: but just to compensate for that, I do have a buildout piece that sets up openoffice servers and all kinds of stuff. | 16:35 |
| rocky | oh awesome | 16:35 |
| faassen | rocky: now if you write a few buildout things that sets up zope 2, you'd make me happy. | 16:35 |
| rocky | faassen: have you seen the topp.buildout work? | 16:35 |
| rocky | i thought it did that | 16:35 |
| faassen | rocky: yeah, sorry, I did see that. dont' know how well it works, didn't try it yet. | 16:35 |
| J1m | faassen: is there an openldap subdirectiry in the parts directory? | 16:36 |
| faassen | J1m: no. | 16:37 |
| faassen | J1m: it just never reaches that part, it just divesi nto the failing python-ldap bit. | 16:37 |
| J1m | That's odd | 16:37 |
| faassen | hm. | 16:38 |
| faassen | I do have it working in a simple setup, at least it dives into configure now. | 16:39 |
| faassen | I'll experiment a bit more and let you know what I find out. | 16:39 |
| J1m | I've never seen the parts run out of order before. | 16:39 |
| J1m | ok, I'm gonna get some breakfast. | 16:40 |
| faassen | could it be the custom egg recipe kicks in too soon somehow? | 16:40 |
| faassen | I mean, I don't know, might have a download phase, etc. | 16:40 |
| J1m | I can't think of a reason why it would. | 16:40 |
| J1m | in a minute, I'm gonna ask you to try the localhost thing again. | 16:41 |
| faassen | okay. | 16:41 |
| faassen | the localhost thing now consistently works for me, though. | 16:41 |
| J1m | try now | 16:41 |
| philiKON | J1m, you have a typo in the windows release. it's called 3.*2*.0 | 16:41 |
| philiKON | is it the right release or just a wrong name? | 16:42 |
| philiKON | s/or/and/ | 16:42 |
| J1m | huh? | 16:42 |
| philiKON | http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope3/3.3.0/folder_contents | 16:42 |
| philiKON | it has Zope-3.2.0.win32-py2.4.exe | 16:42 |
| J1m | ah crap | 16:42 |
| philiKON | is that a build of the 3.2.0 release or 3.3.0 w/ wrong name? | 16:43 |
| J1m | Probably made the wrong release. | 16:43 |
| philiKON | k | 16:43 |
| faassen | J1m: anyway, trying the localhost thing again, did you upload a new version of a recipe or something? | 16:43 |
| J1m | well, it was generated so I probably typos early on and made the wrong release. :( | 16:43 |
| faassen | hm, now it can't find the localhost anymore. | 16:43 |
| J1m | That's because you weren't getting it from localhost. | 16:43 |
| faassen | do yhou think that find-links = http://download.zope.org .. | 16:43 |
| faassen | right.. | 16:43 |
| philiKON | J1m, :( good thing that i caught it today, though | 16:43 |
| faassen | J1m: well, when I type http://localhost I expect localhost to be accessed. :) | 16:44 |
| faassen | J1m: weird though. | 16:44 |
| faassen | J1m: I mean, why doesn't localhost work? I get a HTML page. | 16:44 |
| J1m | You were getting it from download.zope.org | 16:45 |
| J1m | I just removed it from there. | 16:45 |
| J1m | faassen: what content type down your localhost give | 16:45 |
| faassen | checking. | 16:45 |
| faassen | text/html | 16:45 |
| J1m | I don't know. | 16:45 |
| faassen | I mean, it's text/html, it's HTML, it's a link, when I click on it in my browser it downloads. | 16:45 |
| J1m | I don't think it is a question of being localhostm as the tests all use a local server. | 16:46 |
| faassen | anyway, that download.zope.org thing is .. | 16:46 |
| faassen | J1m: anyway, at least I wasn't insane. I could've sworn it didn't work with localhost before. | 16:46 |
| J1m | So I don't know what it doesn't like about your localhost. | 16:48 |
| J1m | I don't understand why buildout wouldn't work and easy_install would, since they use the same code. | 16:48 |
| J1m | And I have no way to reproduce or debug it. | 16:49 |
| J1m | And I'm hungry. :) | 16:49 |
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| faassen | yeah. | 16:57 |
| faassen | interesting. I'll worry about ti late,r my localhost was just a last-ditch attempt. | 16:57 |
| faassen | I think it did work with http://localhost for easy_install though | 16:57 |
| faassen | I think I tried that. I'll try again. | 16:57 |
| faassen | yes, this works: | 16:57 |
| faassen | easy_install -v --find-links=http://localhost python-ldap | 16:58 |
| faassen | Reading http://localhost | 16:58 |
| faassen | Found link: http://localhost/python-ldap-2.2.0.tgz | 16:58 |
| faassen | Best match: python-ldap 2.2.0 | 16:58 |
| faassen | Downloading http://localhost/python-ldap-2.2.0.tgz | 16:58 |
| faassen | so it's definitely something in buildout that's screwing this up from not-working. | 16:58 |
| faassen | or possibly a slightly more recent setuptools | 16:58 |
| faassen | as this workingenv I made earlier this week. | 16:58 |
| faassen | testing that hypothesis. | 16:58 |
| faassen | hm, network connectivity issues here. | 16:58 |
| faassen | J1m: okay. :) | 16:59 |
| faassen | J1m: anyway, I can confirm easy_install works with my localhost and buildout doesn't. | 16:59 |
| J1m | Does a trailing slash make any difference? | 16:59 |
| faassen | J1m: hm, yes, it appears that might indeed work: http://localhost/ in buildout seems to make it work. | 17:01 |
| J1m | interesting | 17:01 |
| faassen | unless you placed that python-ldap back on zope.org :) | 17:02 |
| J1m | no | 17:02 |
| faassen | J1m: anyawy, go eat. :) | 17:02 |
| faassen | J1m: I think I have enough working pieces/workarounds to continue for a while. :) | 17:02 |
| faassen | J1m: and you got tons of issues to ponder. :) | 17:03 |
| J1m | k | 17:03 |
| faassen | away from keyboard for a while. | 17:03 |
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| faassen | J1m: when extending another buildout, what happens with parts? | 20:11 |
| faassen | J1m: like, I have a base.cfg which lists parts = a b | 20:11 |
| J1m | you don't extend buildouts. You extend configuration files. | 20:11 |
| faassen | J1m: and then I have my buildout.cfg which extends.. | 20:11 |
| J1m | yes... | 20:11 |
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| faassen | J1m: yeah, okay, yes, so when I'm extending config files.. | 20:12 |
| faassen | the base.cfg | 20:12 |
| faassen | if I define new parts there.. | 20:12 |
| faassen | or new develop eggs, say. | 20:12 |
| faassen | I just override them completely? | 20:12 |
| faassen | I need to relist them? | 20:12 |
| J1m | yes | 20:12 |
| faassen | hm. | 20:12 |
| J1m | options are overridden in total. | 20:12 |
| faassen | it'd be nice to be able to reuse [instance] sections mostly. | 20:12 |
| faassen | and just add a few eggs to it. | 20:12 |
| faassen | and also to be able to reuse a develop section, and just add a few more development eggs, say. | 20:13 |
| J1m | yes | 20:13 |
| faassen | but that usecase isn't supported, right? | 20:13 |
| faassen | yet. | 20:13 |
| J1m | not without creating extra options. | 20:13 |
| J1m | But I could see the usefulness of letting an extending confguration refer to the bits it's extending. | 20:14 |
| faassen | right. | 20:14 |
| faassen | anyway, I was just wondering whether I missed something, but it's the way I thought. | 20:15 |
| J1m | Perhaps you can think of a nice variable substitution syntax that means "get section x, option y, from the configuration that I am extending. | 20:16 |
| faassen | hm, does one need to be able to say a lot? | 20:16 |
| J1m | ${:x:y} | 20:16 |
| J1m | ? | 20:16 |
| faassen | you might just be able to get away with something like .. | 20:17 |
| faassen | hm, depends on whether you want to rename sectinos, I guess. | 20:17 |
| faassen | if your part names are the same. | 20:17 |
| faassen | then it'd be enough to say: @ | 20:17 |
| J1m | ? | 20:17 |
| faassen | like, zcml: @ | 20:17 |
| J1m | ? | 20:17 |
| faassen | or zcml: @ extrastuff | 20:17 |
| faassen | well, on a separate line, that. | 20:17 |
| faassen | as you'd refer to the original section automatically. | 20:18 |
| J1m | I have no idea what you are refering to. | 20:18 |
| faassen | but perhaps that's not flexible enough. | 20:18 |
| faassen | what I'm saying if if I have a fooconfig.cfg | 20:18 |
| faassen | which extends barconfig.cfg | 20:18 |
| faassen | and I want an extra egg in my instance in fooconfig.cfg | 20:18 |
| faassen | I have an [instance] section in there | 20:18 |
| faassen | with a zcml option | 20:18 |
| faassen | and if I want tos ay, reuse everything from th barconfig.cfg for the zcml bits. | 20:18 |
| faassen | if the section names are identical, there's no other information necessary. | 20:19 |
| faassen | if not, you might want to do: | 20:19 |
| faassen | [fooinstance] | 20:19 |
| J1m | I'd want to leverage the ${} syntax. | 20:19 |
| faassen | eggs = @barinstance | 20:19 |
| faassen | extraegg | 20:19 |
| faassen | what I'm getting at is that there doesn't appear to be any reason to specify the option explicitly. | 20:20 |
| faassen | if you're going to reuse information from an option, the option name is implicit. | 20:20 |
| J1m | explicit is better than implicit. | 20:20 |
| faassen | except when ti's not. | 20:20 |
| faassen | here it's just redundant typing and failure prone. | 20:20 |
| faassen | so it's not better. | 20:20 |
| faassen | because it makes absolutely no sense to say: | 20:20 |
| J1m | I also wouldn't want to refer to a base configuration file name. | 20:20 |
| J1m | You are extending a base configuration that comes from bany sources. | 20:21 |
| faassen | [fooinstance] | 20:21 |
| faassen | zcml = ${barinstance, eggs} | 20:21 |
| J1m | many sources | 20:21 |
| faassen | I mean, it's always going to be zcml. | 20:21 |
| J1m | I don't follow you. | 20:21 |
| faassen | you were saying, get section X, option y from the configuration that I am extending. | 20:22 |
| faassen | I'm sayin that option y is redundant and allowing people to specify it is failure prone at best. | 20:22 |
| J1m | Perhaps we allow it to be blank. | 20:24 |
| faassen | yeah, that at least follows the DRY principle. :) | 20:24 |
| J1m | DRY? | 20:24 |
| faassen | don't repeat yourself. | 20:25 |
| J1m | I'll think about this. | 20:26 |
| J1m | I like the idea of being able to refer to the base configuration. | 20:26 |
| J1m | I'd like to extend the current syntax. | 20:27 |
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| faassen | yeah, that makes sense. | 20:27 |
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| faassen | J1m: oh, by the way, that python-ldap setup.py is too horrible to work with easy install or buildout. :( | 20:32 |
| faassen | J1m: it has a horrible hack in there to find paths, it appears, and such. | 20:33 |
| J1m | sigh | 20:33 |
| J1m | find what sorts of paths? | 20:33 |
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| faassen | exec_startdir = os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])) | 20:34 |
| faassen | package_init_file_name = reduce(os.path.join,[exec_startdir,'Lib','ldap','__init__.py']) | 20:34 |
| faassen | I think that's fixable, they only want the version number or something. | 20:34 |
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| faassen | but then they use configparser to read a setup.cfg to load up various library paths. | 20:35 |
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| faassen | which are coded to usr/local/openLDAP in there | 20:36 |
| faassen | it doesn't appear those can be overridden. do paths set in setup.py always take precedence above those set by buildout? | 20:36 |
| faassen | as it's certainly completely ignoring whatever I tell it. :) | 20:36 |
| J1m | well, buildout just runs setup.py and passes options to build_ext. | 20:37 |
| J1m | I'm guessing that it will ignore options you pass to setup.py build_ext. | 20:38 |
| faassen | and build_ext doesn't allow overrides? | 20:38 |
| faassen | if they're already set, you mean? | 20:38 |
| J1m | It does, that's why it provides options. | 20:38 |
| faassen | I wonder why it ignores them then. | 20:38 |
| J1m | I don't know. | 20:38 |
| J1m | More distutils foo than I have. | 20:39 |
| faassen | anyway, I'll try to look into that later. | 20:39 |
| J1m | Have you tried running build_ext yourself? | 20:39 |
| faassen | for now I just want to go ahead with my ldap work instead. | 20:39 |
| J1m | yeah. | 20:39 |
| J1m | Unfortunately, sometimes you just have to give up. | 20:39 |
| J1m | Like with pywin32. | 20:39 |
| J1m | :) | 20:39 |
| faassen | oh, what's that? :) | 20:39 |
| J1m | The win32 extensions. | 20:40 |
| J1m | You need that to be able to use the sftp stuff on wiin32. | 20:40 |
| J1m | But there's no working egg for it. | 20:40 |
| J1m | Cause win32 wants to do weird things with .pth files and the windows registry. | 20:40 |
| faassen | (I just tried setup.py build_ext manually with --include-dirs) | 20:41 |
| faassen | it just ignores that information completely. | 20:41 |
| J1m | Yup, sounds like an evil setup.py | 20:41 |
| J1m | so you would have to build a custom recipe, or install it by hand. | 20:41 |
| faassen | weird though. it just uses distutils.core.setup | 20:41 |
| faassen | oh, wait. | 20:42 |
| faassen | I see where it's failing, I suspect. | 20:42 |
| faassen | it uses ext_modules = [ | 20:42 |
| J1m | Maybe if you pass those options to setup, it ignores command-line options. I dunno. | 20:42 |
| faassen | and *there* it passes the include_dirs and such. | 20:42 |
| faassen | and apparently those aren't overridden. | 20:42 |
| faassen | like these are not direct arguments to setup.py | 20:43 |
| faassen | instead they're passed along to Extension() | 20:43 |
| faassen | which is hooked into ext_modules = [Extension(include_dirs=something)] | 20:43 |
| J1m | Pretty inflexible. | 20:44 |
| faassen | it's ane xample of why Python code can be bad for configuration. :) | 20:44 |
| J1m | I think it's more of an example of why explicit is better than implicit. | 20:46 |
| J1m | This setup is trying to do too much. | 20:46 |
| faassen | perhaps it's an example of both. :) | 20:47 |
| faassen | maybe it has to do this Extension bit to build a whole lot of c extensions, I don't know. | 20:48 |
| faassen | J1m: out of here.. have a nice weekend! | 20:55 |
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