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| whit | hey all | 00:54 |
|---|---|---|
| whit | are there any api do like inspection tools for subscribers? | 00:54 |
| whit | or can I find their regs via zope.app.apidoc.component? | 00:54 |
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| radix | DocTestFinder doesn't work if a function with a doctest has a decorator. Is there a usual workaround for this? | 02:08 |
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| romanofs1i | moin | 09:37 |
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| projekt01 | agroszer, everything fine? | 13:47 |
| agroszer | hi Roger | 13:47 |
| agroszer | yep, looks like | 13:48 |
| projekt01 | hi, I'm looking forward to the sprint | 13:48 |
| agroszer | I just entered a new topic | 13:48 |
| projekt01 | Do you have already ideas what you like to work on? | 13:48 |
| agroszer | it's query language and engine | 13:49 |
| agroszer | proposal and high level plans to follow in a few days | 13:49 |
| projekt01 | What do you mean by query lang and engine? | 13:50 |
| agroszer | It's kind of OQL, but I don't want to shoot the poem in a few lines | 13:51 |
| agroszer | OQL and more | 13:52 |
| projekt01 | Sounds great | 13:52 |
| agroszer | and it's modular -- who has the time and need can improve it | 13:53 |
| projekt01 | what do you think about finising python 2.5 support? | 13:53 |
| projekt01 | modular, that sounds like a good idea | 13:53 |
| agroszer | I personnally am happy with 2.4, ATM, but we should move forward definitely | 13:53 |
| agroszer | as Guido is pushing hard the 3000 | 13:54 |
| projekt01 | Yes, defently, it's no option to hang arround because of Zope2, we defently will take a look at all the problems we have because of Zope2 and Zope3 at the sprint. | 13:55 |
| agroszer | Theuni, ping | 13:55 |
| projekt01 | We shouldtake a closer look at the Python 3000 discussion thred and find aout what this does mean for Zope and Zope3 sharing libraries. | 13:55 |
| projekt01 | We defently what wait to move to PYthon 300 just because of z2 | 13:56 |
| agroszer | I read the thread, it won't be easy to move Z2+Z3 at the same time | 13:56 |
| projekt01 | That's no reason to wait with z3 to move | 13:56 |
| agroszer | We'll see, ATM I'm developing only with z3 but that might change... | 13:57 |
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| projekt01 | I guess sometimes we have to make a descision if z2 and z3 fit together if they are not able to share it's coding language (version) in a long term. But that's probably a question for the next year. | 13:59 |
| agroszer | I wonder that nobody from zope corp is attending | 14:00 |
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| projekt01 | faassen, hi | 14:02 |
| projekt01 | faassen, do you have time to join the next sprint? There is also space for a grok track there. | 14:04 |
| wiggy | z3 has become essential in z2 | 14:04 |
| wiggy | you can't split them apart again | 14:04 |
| projekt01 | wiggy, you mean should, right? | 14:05 |
| agroszer | as I remember, Jim wanted both to join in a kind of z5 | 14:05 |
| faassen | projekt01: which sprint is this? | 14:06 |
| agroszer | Foliage, in Boston | 14:06 |
| faassen | projekt01: I mean, for me 'the next sprint' is the Neanderthal sprint in early october. | 14:06 |
| projekt01 | faassen, In the boston area | 14:06 |
| faassen | projekt01: okay, I'll google for it. :) | 14:06 |
| projekt01 | http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/FoliageSprint#msg20070815225344+0000@wiki.zope.org | 14:06 |
| projekt01 | faassen, wasn't that fast ;-) | 14:06 |
| projekt01 | agroszer, z5 means also let some part stay on python 2 and move with some parts to py3000 it's just a better naming. | 14:09 |
| faassen | projekt01: yes, thanks. :) | 14:10 |
| faassen | projekt01: oh, this sprint just comes at a really unfortunate time. the week after that I'll go to the Neanderthal sprint. | 14:11 |
| wiggy | projekt01: no, I mean has | 14:11 |
| wiggy | projekt01: all current zope 2 projects use lots of zope3 | 14:11 |
| faassen | wiggy: why is a split being discussed? | 14:12 |
| wiggy | I sure hope it's not | 14:13 |
| projekt01 | wiggy, Can you give me good reason why I workd with and on Zope3 the last 4 years and no to stay on python 2.* if there is a way to move forward? | 14:14 |
| wiggy | because the vast majority of people who use zope use zope 2 | 14:15 |
| projekt01 | wiggy, I don't say we should do this and cut the relation between z2 and z3. But we serious have to find a concept that we can move forward with z3. | 14:15 |
| wiggy | and I mean use in the sense of 'use a zope application' | 14:15 |
| wiggy | not 'people who develop for zope' | 14:15 |
| Theuni | agroszer: pong | 14:16 |
| agroszer | Theuni, here | 14:16 |
| Theuni | where? :) | 14:16 |
| agroszer | Am I right that, | 14:16 |
| agroszer | Sebastian is working for you? | 14:17 |
| agroszer | Sebastian Wehrmann | 14:17 |
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| Theuni | yes | 14:17 |
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| agroszer | I think he would be interested in that I'd like to introduce some plans about a query language at the Foliage sprint | 14:18 |
| projekt01 | wiggy, btw, I don't say that we should move right now or in a half year etc. I just like to see a timeframe before we speak about not moving forward now or anytime. | 14:19 |
| projekt01 | wiggy, I only say we need a concept before we say we don't move forward. | 14:19 |
| projekt01 | wiggy, probably lobby by Guido doing a smother transfomation path is a part of it. But counting on that is not realistic right now. | 14:21 |
| projekt01 | wiggy, I guess we have to solve our problems by ourself. | 14:21 |
| agroszer | projekt01: we'll have to move forward sometime, definitely | 14:22 |
| projekt01 | It's good t see that some Zope2/Plone cracks joining the spirnt too, I guess this will give us a good base for discussing this part. | 14:23 |
| wiggy | who's joining? | 14:23 |
| projekt01 | agroszer, did you ever see a active opensource project which stays on a old version? | 14:23 |
| agroszer | wiggy: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/FoliageSprint | 14:23 |
| projekt01 | that's the end of it | 14:24 |
| Theuni | agroszer: would be nice to see some slides of that then :) | 14:24 |
| agroszer | Theuni: yes, some appetizers shall come in a few days | 14:24 |
| projekt01 | even KDE changed it's code base in a not backward compatible way 2 times over the last 10 years. | 14:25 |
| wiggy | projekt01: X comes close | 14:27 |
| projekt01 | what do you mean by X? | 14:27 |
| faassen | projekt01: the C language hasn't changed a lot in a few decades. :) | 14:28 |
| wiggy | projekt01: X is a loooong running and active open source project which still has almost all old version support | 14:28 |
| projekt01 | fassen, it's not a question if we like to change, python 3000 changes and it's aquestion if we take this trak. And I think we have to. | 14:29 |
| wiggy | how similar is to to perl vs perl6 ? | 14:30 |
| projekt01 | I'm also not happy to change all the existing things, but seriously we have to think about that and I guess we have to take this train. | 14:30 |
| faassen | the perl 6 people intend to have it run perl 5 code too. somehow. :) | 14:31 |
| projekt01 | What I don't like is to get a outdate zope3 which is one of the latest framework which works with the old python. | 14:31 |
| faassen | projekt01: python 3000 is forcing a change on us, yeah. :) | 14:31 |
| faassen | projekt01: yes, go tell the Python 3000 developers that and ask them to stop? :) | 14:31 |
| faassen | projekt01: they're the ones causing your problems, aren't they? | 14:31 |
| projekt01 | yes | 14:32 |
| projekt01 | and we have to find a way to move forward and that z2 and z3 developer can agree on. | 14:32 |
| projekt01 | I guess it's not a question if we should move or not, I guess it's a question of find a way that doesn't hurt to much ;-) | 14:33 |
| faassen | yeah. | 14:34 |
| agroszer | yep | 14:34 |
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| faassen | anyway, it will be about a year before Python 3.0 will be released. | 14:34 |
| faassen | we also need to wait for Python 2.6 to be released. | 14:34 |
| faassen | the first step will be to make Zope work on python 2.6. | 14:34 |
| projekt01 | faassen, I really like to see you at the sprint, any chance to join it? | 14:34 |
| faassen | then it's time to experiment with conversion of individual libraries and see how well it works. | 14:34 |
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| faassen | projekt01: no, no chance, I'm going to germany for a grok sprint the whole week after, that's too many sprints. :) | 14:35 |
| faassen | projekt01: sorry. | 14:35 |
| faassen | anyway, it's very likely there'll be a Python 2.7 | 14:35 |
| faassen | there's also theq uestion of our dependencies - are they porting? twisted isn't going to port quickly if at all, for instance. | 14:35 |
| faassen | and perhaps we can eggify zope 2 enough so it's a less daunting task. | 14:35 |
| faassen | but we're still facing breaking all python scripts. | 14:36 |
| projekt01 | faassen, I see, probably I should join a grok sprint in the near future. | 14:36 |
| faassen | what I'm hoping for is that someone will invent Python Five, which combines a Python 2 and Python 3 runtime in an interoperable fashion. | 14:36 |
| faassen | if you'd have that, everything would be a lot easier. | 14:36 |
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| faassen | projekt01: that'd be cool. we have one the first week of october in Cologne. :) | 14:36 |
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| projekt01 | faassen, I agree with all, that's why I think we have to discuss this in a wider range and show people some possible concepts for that. Not just saying we don't move. | 14:37 |
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| projekt01 | faassen, I saw that but I have to wait for the sprint after that. | 14:38 |
| projekt01 | faaseen, probably we should find some other python framework developers e.g. twisted and all other framworks out there and do a migration with as many developers as possible | 14:40 |
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| projekt01 | faassen, probably the euro python is a good palce to build such a interest group and do some python Five work or help others with small projects like pysqlite etc. to move to py 3000 | 14:42 |
| faassen | projekt01: right now as to python 3000 after getting burned badly voicing my worries on my blog I'm taking a wait and see attitude. | 14:47 |
| faassen | projekt01: I think we'll first worry about Python 2.6. | 14:48 |
| faassen | projekt01: that's the recommended path anyway from the python 3 developers. :) | 14:48 |
| projekt01 | faassen, agreed, take it slowly but still keep going forward. | 14:48 |
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| faassen | projekt01: since currently there's no way to go forward (no python 3 or python 2.6), it means we don't have much to do. :) | 14:51 |
| projekt01 | except release Zope3 with python 2.5 | 14:53 |
| faassen | projekt01: yes. :) | 14:53 |
| faassen | projekt01: and zope 2. :) | 14:53 |
| projekt01 | yes | 14:54 |
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| projekt01 | what's the issue with python 2.5 and zope 2? | 14:54 |
| wiggy | restricted python probably | 14:57 |
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| markusleist | anything changed in intid/catalog or what's wrong: | 15:15 |
| markusleist | print [i for i in my_catalog.searchResults(oid_index=u"66b4d69f5ff63c83b54f028d6ca472745")]: *** TypeError: 'Net' object is not callable | 15:15 |
| markusleist | in intid: | 15:15 |
| markusleist | uidutil.refs[772093803]: <org.ict_ok.components.net.net.Net object at 0x905cbac> | 15:16 |
| markusleist | but with () | 15:16 |
| markusleist | uidutil.refs[772093803](): *** TypeError: 'Net' object is not callable | 15:16 |
| Theuni | agroszer meet Basti_, Basti_ meet agroszer | 15:19 |
| Basti_ | hi :) | 15:20 |
| agroszer | hi Basti_ | 15:20 |
| agroszer | have to go for a meeting, I'll be back | 15:21 |
| Basti_ | Theuni: I think he is the guy from the mail I forwarded some last week | 15:21 |
| Basti_ | -some | 15:21 |
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| Theuni | right | 15:23 |
| Theuni | agroszer: sorry we didn't get back to you. Basti_ forwarded me your mail, but I'm so darn busy ... :( | 15:23 |
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| Theuni | oh wait, mixed that up, that was some other mail | 15:24 |
| Theuni | ah there it is | 15:24 |
| agroszer | Theuni, Basti_: be back, have to go! boss is in my back | 15:24 |
| agroszer | meeting time | 15:24 |
| Theuni | you're actually waiting for two replies :) | 15:24 |
| Theuni | enjoy your meeting! | 15:24 |
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| mgedmin | markusleist: I think uidutil.refs[xxxx] is supposed to have objects that provide IKeyReference and return the actual content object when called | 15:31 |
| markusleist | mgedmin: ok, but zope.app.initid.getObject(self, id): return self.refs[id]() will produce the shown error. i will use my own initid-call .regs[id] _without_ () - thanx | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 15:37 |
| mgedmin | you're sweeping a bug under the rug and hoping it just goes away | 15:37 |
| mgedmin | the question is *why* the refs of the intid utility suddenly contains real objects instead of key references | 15:37 |
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| markusleist | mgedmin: you are right, but i dont't have any time untill next monday ... | 15:41 |
| markusleist | s/untill/until/ | 15:42 |
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| markusleist | hmm, no time will be a lame excuse, right? | 15:59 |
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| markusleist | in zope/app/intid/__init__.py(119)register(): | 16:00 |
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| markusleist | key = IKeyReference(ob) but after step through: | 16:00 |
| markusleist | hash(ob): 169130604 / hash(key): 169130604 | 16:01 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 16:01 |
| markusleist | so refernece and object are the same | 16:01 |
| mgedmin | what does IKeyReference.providedBy(ob) print? | 16:01 |
| markusleist | mom | 16:01 |
| mgedmin | it prints 'mom'? | 16:02 |
| markusleist | (Pdb) print IKeyReference.providedBy(ob) | 16:02 |
| markusleist | True | 16:02 |
| mgedmin | you have a lying object on your hands then | 16:02 |
| mgedmin | IKeyReference is supposed to provide __call__, but your object doesn't | 16:02 |
| CrippsFX | does anyone have any idea how widely used svn.zope.org/ldapauth (which is a newer version on svn.zope.org/ldapadapter) or svn.zope.org/ldappas are? | 16:02 |
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| markusleist | i will step into "IKeyReference(ob)" | 16:03 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if your content object explicitly declares that it provides IKeyReference, or if it gets that from some (proxy?) magic | 16:04 |
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| mgedmin | IKeyReference(ob) returns ob when it claims to provide IKeyReference, that's by design | 16:05 |
| mgedmin | I don't think you'll learn much from stepping into the adapter | 16:05 |
| mgedmin | what's the class of ob, by the way? | 16:05 |
| mgedmin | org.ict_ok.components.net.net.Net? | 16:05 |
| markusleist | yes | 16:05 |
| markusleist | btw: http://trac.ict-ok.org/browser/trunk/org/ict_ok/components/net/net.py | 16:07 |
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| CrippsFX | morning mgedmin, naro | 16:09 |
| mgedmin | your Superclass class implements IKeyReference | 16:09 |
| mgedmin | no idea why | 16:09 |
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| markusleist | mgedmin: hmmm | 16:11 |
| CrippsFX | on site instantiation, I have a Pluggable Authentication Utility added to my site manager, and I add a principal folder, and a "session credentials" utility to the pau ... how would I programatically get the pau to use the principal folder as the default authenticator plugin, and the session credentials utility as the default credentials plugin? | 16:13 |
| markusleist | mgedmin: seems to be a copy-paste-"phenomenon", my error - thanx a lot | 16:16 |
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| CrippsFX | ahh ... I got the answer to my own question from reading some *other* source code .... pau.credentialsPlugins = (); pau.authenticatorPlugins = () | 16:52 |
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| agroszer | Theuni, Basti_: I'm back | 17:13 |
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| CSWookie | Is there a writeup somewhere on how to convert browser:pages based stuff to equivalent views? | 17:16 |
| Theuni | ? | 17:22 |
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| CSWookie | Theuni: I've got some code here I'm cribbing off of, but since it use browser:pages and browser:page, I'd like to figure out how those things work, and make my stuff not use them... | 17:25 |
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| Theuni | why not? | 17:31 |
| Theuni | i like them. | 17:31 |
| Theuni | what do you want to use instead? zope:view? | 17:31 |
| Theuni | i mean, they are convenience things that work pretty well | 17:31 |
| CSWookie | Theuni: I don't understand how they work, and I find them hard to debug later. | 17:32 |
| CSWookie | Theuni: Do you know where the directive is implemented? I'm perfectly willing to read up, but they're a fairly complex directive set. | 17:32 |
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| gstratton | CSWookie: Have you seen Philipp's proposal: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/TheBrowserPageCompromise ? | 17:34 |
| gstratton | I found it was useful for understand what browser:page does | 17:34 |
| CSWookie | gstratton: Yes, I'm reading it now, in fact. | 17:35 |
| CSWookie | I'd still like to see some code. | 17:35 |
| Theuni | hmm. i'd guesstimate zope.app.publisher | 17:37 |
| Theuni | but grepping for "ibrowserpagedirective" might help too | 17:37 |
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| CSWookie | Excellent. Now that I know what to grep for, I'm off to the races. | 17:40 |
| CSWookie | grepping for 'page' is sort of like googling for 'boobies'. | 17:41 |
| bigkevmcd | interesting idea | 17:41 |
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| derek_richardson | is there a Zope3 replacement for Globals.package_home() ? | 18:23 |
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| wiggy | it's not that hard to write yourself | 18:30 |
| derek_richardson | already did that, just wanted to know if it was necessary. ;) when porting from zope2 to zope3, what should happen to ZopeTestCase references? Is there now an egg that contains ZopeTestCase? Or should I be doing something entirely different? | 18:33 |
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| CrippsFX | CSWookie: lol. Have you tried that before? | 18:41 |
| * CSWookie whistles innocently. | 18:42 | |
| CrippsFX | hahaha. | 18:43 |
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| Sasuuke | Bonjour | 21:36 |
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| benji | Theuni: I just put an 0.3 of zc.sourcefactory on download.zope.org; can you update PyPI for me? | 23:34 |
| Theuni | sure | 23:35 |
| * Theuni wonders | 23:35 | |
| Theuni | actually | 23:35 |
| Theuni | let me give you write access | 23:35 |
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| Theuni | benji: you got a username on PyPI? | 23:35 |
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| benji | Theuni: "benji" | 23:37 |
| * benji sees what's coming. <wink> | 23:37 | |
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| Theuni | ? | 23:38 |
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| benji | you're going to make me an owner of that package | 23:38 |
| Theuni | ack :) | 23:38 |
| Theuni | I did. | 23:38 |
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| Theuni | Now it has two parents. ;) | 23:38 |
| * Theuni wonders whether 'parent' has the same singular/plural weirdness as in German | 23:39 | |
| Theuni | no it doesn't | 23:39 |
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| Theuni | cool | 23:39 |
| benji | No, but German adoption laws must be more liberal than the US's ;) | 23:39 |
| Theuni | hu? | 23:40 |
| Theuni | what happened in sourcefactory 0.3? | 23:40 |
| benji | two mail parents? | 23:40 |
| philiKON | zc.sourdcefactory now has two fathers | 23:40 |
| Theuni | ah | 23:40 |
| Theuni | oh cool | 23:41 |
| Theuni | you fixed that bug | 23:41 |
| Theuni | great | 23:41 |
| Theuni | otherwise i would have had to fix it tomorrow | 23:41 |
| Theuni | =) | 23:41 |
| Theuni | it sat on my list since the weekend | 23:41 |
| benji | darn, my lazyness failed me; I'll have to work harder on not working so hard | 23:41 |
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| Theuni | Don't work so hard on that. | 23:41 |
| Theuni | hmm | 23:42 |
| Theuni | I wonder whether that fix works out. | 23:42 |
| Theuni | strings will not implicitly be converted to unicode using ascii. | 23:43 |
| Theuni | I intended to keep the str() but not touch unicode strings | 23:43 |
| Theuni | The current bug IMHO was to convert unicode strings to str() | 23:43 |
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| Theuni | I've gotta go to bed. If you don't it's worth touching that I'll be fine (until it actually bites me). Thanks for fixing! | 23:45 |
| Nederhoed | Good evening, I'm looking to hire a zope3 freelance programmer. Is there a register online? I did find the consultancy page on zope.org, but those are all companies. | 23:46 |
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| philiKON | Nederhoed: write to zope3-users | 23:47 |
| Nederhoed | ok, thanks | 23:48 |
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