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| lisppaste6 | sig11 pasted "Trouble importing XML" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96138 | 02:03 |
|---|---|---|
| sig11 | I wonder if someone could give me a hand with this error... | 02:03 |
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| sig11 | I'm running Zope 2.10 from Lenny packages | 02:03 |
| sig11 | I get that BT when I try to import the xml files from the old server | 02:04 |
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| mcdonc | sig11: if you still have access to a running old server i'd export as zexp rather than xml... it looks like the xml import machinery can't handle high order characters | 02:07 |
| sig11 | Unfortunately we don't. :( | 02:11 |
| sig11 | Would version matching with the old server help or is it more likely to work with the current version of Zope? | 02:12 |
| mcdonc | unknown, really | 02:12 |
| sig11 | Alrighty. I guess I'll try downgrading first. :) | 02:13 |
| mcdonc | ok, that sounds like a plan ;-) | 02:13 |
| sig11 | Thanks. I found a lot of info on that crazy error but nothing really helpful unfortunately. ;( | 02:13 |
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| bhagat | ImportError: No module named Interface | 11:37 |
| bhagat | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/187324/ | 11:37 |
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| bigkevmcd | bhagat: what's the "Interface" module you're referencing? | 11:53 |
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| moo--- | bhagat: you are doing it wrong | 11:55 |
| moo--- | did you manage to fix your bug | 11:55 |
| bhagat | nope I followed http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za/courses/zope/ch04.html/?searchterm=Address.py | 11:56 |
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| bhagat | bigkevmcd, learning diskbased product from this link ^ | 11:56 |
| bhagat | it seems calling from the Zope's Interface module Zope-2.10.9-final-py2.4/lib/python]# Interface ? | 11:58 |
| bhagat | moo---, ^^^ | 11:58 |
| moo--- | I do not understand the question | 11:59 |
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| bigkevmcd | oh well... | 12:00 |
| bigkevmcd | but that tutorial seems to be lacking | 12:00 |
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| bhagat | moo---, sorry got disconnected | 12:03 |
| moo--- | bhagat: the example looks wrong | 12:03 |
| moo--- | from zope.interface import Interfcae | 12:03 |
| moo--- | ops | 12:03 |
| moo--- | from zope.interface import Interface | 12:03 |
| moo--- | that's correct | 12:03 |
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| asabil | hi all | 15:15 |
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| ignas | emm, what is the equivalent of MessageIDFactory in Zope2.11 ? | 15:34 |
| hannosch | MessageFactory | 15:35 |
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| bigkevmcd | http://kpug.zwiki.org/WhatIsNewInZope33#porting-to-zope-3-3 | 15:35 |
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| ignas | hannosch, thanks, was not there in Zope2.8 | 15:36 |
| ignas | bigkevmcd, if that was for me - i'd rather have docs for "what's old in Zope2.8 Zope2.11 and Zope2 overall" | 15:38 |
| hannosch | ignas: yep. MessageID's got replaced by Messages at some point. they have the same API, but Messages are immutable, which makes them secure to use as "stones" in the zope.security. no need to proxy them via zope.proxy anymore | 15:38 |
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| ignas | hmm, i used to call them 'rocks' not 'stones' ;) | 15:39 |
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| hannosch | right. rocks :) | 15:39 |
| hannosch | the clear opposite of spacesuits :) | 15:39 |
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| moo--- | in space, no one hears your messageid | 16:00 |
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| ignas | Zope2.11 resourceDirectory implementation killed 2 hours of my time yesterday :/ | 16:00 |
| ignas | will kill 1 more hour composing bug report I guess | 16:01 |
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| * Theuni1 waves | 17:00 | |
| Theuni1 | So, here's today's agenda: https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2010-March/039769.html | 17:01 |
| Theuni1 | Anybody except me around for the weekly meeting or is everyone lurking? :) | 17:01 |
| trollfot | Theuni1: I was here to watch the debate :) | 17:02 |
| faassen | I'm here. | 17:02 |
| Theuni1 | heh | 17:02 |
| faassen | trollfot: good to see you. :) | 17:02 |
| trollfot | hi faassen :) | 17:02 |
| * LeoRochael here | 17:02 | |
| Theuni1 | So lets start then | 17:02 |
| Theuni1 | First: test runners/nightly builds | 17:03 |
| Theuni1 | We had some activity over the last week. | 17:03 |
| faassen | Theuni1: one thing that I didn't see is Jan-Jaap's involvement in those discussions. | 17:03 |
| Theuni1 | yes | 17:03 |
| Theuni1 | he's on holidays right now | 17:03 |
| faassen | Theuni1: he's been maintaining quite a bit of buildbot infrastructure. | 17:03 |
| Theuni1 | according to JW | 17:03 |
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| faassen | ah, okay, just wanted to make sure he was somehow involved. | 17:03 |
| Theuni1 | i put his name on the buildbot page in the documentation, so now he's involved *g | 17:04 |
| LeoRochael | :-) | 17:04 |
| Theuni1 | Last week we started looking for a volunteer WRT coordinating the automated build setups and mgedmin said he'd ponder that, but he isn't around. So i'll keep that issue open. | 17:04 |
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| Theuni1 | The other thing that came up was that we need to organize which combinations of projects/platforms/branches actually need coverage. | 17:05 |
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| faassen | Theuni1: he blogged.. mgedmin | 17:05 |
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| faassen | Theuni1: let me look up what he said. | 17:06 |
| faassen | "There is a need for somebody to coordinate all this activity: make sure we have up-to-date test results for all kinds of projects, aggregate them in one place, chase up build slaves for exotic OSes (i.e. Windows)... I don't think I'm well suited for this kind of organisational activity. " | 17:06 |
| Theuni1 | ah interesting | 17:06 |
| faassen | Theuni1: so looks like you'll have to look for another volunteer there. | 17:07 |
| Theuni1 | right, good to know. | 17:07 |
| faassen | Theuni1: getting people to coordinate other people is pretty hard. :) | 17:07 |
| J1m | me neither :) | 17:07 |
| Theuni1 | heh | 17:07 |
| faassen | but persistence helps. | 17:07 |
| Theuni1 | yeah :) | 17:07 |
| Theuni1 | So anyway, any suggestions for creating and maintaining an overview of what combinations of projects/platforms/etc... should have nightly builds? | 17:08 |
| Theuni1 | I'm mostly worried about the maintenance part | 17:08 |
| faassen | I think the best way to get that maintained is when it's very clear for people how to use it. | 17:08 |
| faassen | I find buildbot's status pages rather intimidating, so I don't really use them. | 17:08 |
| faassen | so either someone documents the heck out of what I should look at. | 17:08 |
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| faassen | or someone volunteers to look at it for me and reports. | 17:09 |
| faassen | once people start to rely on the information, they'll complain faster when it's down. | 17:09 |
| Theuni1 | well, i think the main issue would be that we notice if we lack something, so, for example "we're missing a python 2.5 build for zope.interface on windows 64 bit" | 17:09 |
| faassen | ah, well, isn't that builds? | 17:09 |
| faassen | but yeah. | 17:09 |
| faassen | that's an issue we've had with Grok, still have. | 17:09 |
| Theuni1 | yeah, except i'm imagining a better overview | 17:09 |
| faassen | but buildbots aren't needed to find that out. | 17:09 |
| Theuni1 | I think something we should leverage more is the test aggregation mail | 17:09 |
| faassen | you could probably script pypi. baiju had a script. | 17:09 |
| Theuni1 | uhm | 17:10 |
| Theuni1 | nah | 17:10 |
| Theuni1 | that's not what i meant - bad example probably. | 17:10 |
| faassen | I do like 32 bit and 64 bit windows eggs available. | 17:10 |
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| faassen | but I thought that was the next topic. :) | 17:10 |
| faassen | so I was waiting. | 17:10 |
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| Theuni1 | i meant "we're missing a nightly test run for package X with python Y on platform Z" | 17:10 |
| Theuni1 | and that would somehow have to be derived from a set of rules IMHO | 17:10 |
| faassen | what about "the test run is failing and nobody notices it?" | 17:10 |
| faassen | I think we've had that issue just as much. | 17:10 |
| Theuni1 | well, we do have a general answer for that | 17:11 |
| faassen | we've had tests for 2.4 but nobody notices when we break it. | 17:11 |
| Theuni1 | the builds need to start working towards sending mail to the zope-tests list | 17:11 |
| faassen | ah, okay. | 17:11 |
| Theuni1 | once that happens we get the daily aggregate on the dev list that alerts us | 17:11 |
| Theuni1 | and its really simple to do that | 17:11 |
| faassen | okay, that should help. | 17:11 |
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| Theuni1 | And I think we can leverage that list even further by sending all kinds of "checks" there. | 17:12 |
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| Theuni1 | anything that developers should act upon | 17:12 |
| Theuni1 | I think i'll poke the current buildbot maintainers explicitly to change their configuration. | 17:12 |
| Theuni1 | so, the next topic is access to build machines | 17:13 |
| Theuni1 | oh wait | 17:13 |
| Theuni1 | we didn't actually figure out how we get towards a "definite" list of which regular tests we *should* be running | 17:13 |
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| faassen | for what? | 17:14 |
| faassen | ZTK? zopeapp? groktoolkit? bbtk? | 17:14 |
| LeoRochael | and which combination of trunks and releases... | 17:14 |
| Theuni1 | FWIW anything in svn.zope.org | 17:14 |
| faassen | I'd focus on running tests for those "toolkits" we have. | 17:15 |
| faassen | and trunks. | 17:15 |
| faassen | of those packages in toolkits. | 17:15 |
| faassen | the toolkits actually have that info now. | 17:15 |
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| faassen | to support mr.developer. | 17:15 |
| Theuni1 | right | 17:15 |
| faassen | the info what the trunk is, I mean. | 17:15 |
| Theuni1 | i think the general problem is that "anything in the repository" in "all combinations of platforms and pythons" is way to extensive | 17:15 |
| Theuni1 | so, the various toolkits would be a start | 17:16 |
| trollfot | the toolkits will already be expensive, and that's a must-have | 17:16 |
| Theuni1 | ok, anyway, let's ponder that a bit more later. | 17:17 |
| Theuni1 | not that many buildbot-people around right now anyway :) | 17:17 |
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| Theuni1 | The build machines for windows packages reminds me two things: alan keeps plugging that he can provide windows machines and Tres' reviewed hudson which seems to be a good tool for producing builds that get uploaded somewhere after building. | 17:18 |
| Theuni1 | So I wonder whether we should have windows machines that developers can log in to or whether they can just trigger a build through the repository. | 17:18 |
| faassen | (Jan-Jaap's buildbot covers quite a few combinations of toolkits I think) | 17:19 |
| Theuni1 | faassen: yes it does. | 17:19 |
| faassen | it'd be great if we could get 32 and 64 bit builds uploaded to pypi automatically. :) | 17:19 |
| faassen | i.e. I release a package that needs a build, and the thingy job comes in and drops in a windows build. | 17:19 |
| Theuni1 | right | 17:19 |
| faassen | that wouldn't allow me to run trunk tests on windows. | 17:20 |
| hannosch | I only do the 32+64 eggs for Python 2.6 when asked or when required by Zope 2.12 / 2.13 | 17:20 |
| faassen | but that'd help a lot of logistical issues. | 17:20 |
| Theuni1 | it could watch the pypi, take that sdist and compile and put the build somewhere | 17:20 |
| faassen | hannosch: yeah, I've been begging grokkers to give you a list so we can ask you, but nobody has done so yet. :) | 17:20 |
| hannosch | faassen: heh :) if I get a list I get you eggs | 17:20 |
| faassen | Theuni1: yeah, that'd be the nicest. | 17:20 |
| Theuni1 | faassen: one thing we need before that would be that the tests are actually run on those platforms too. otherwise we need to release just to find out about build problems on windows ;) | 17:20 |
| faassen | hannosch: I know. but nobody made the real list yet. :) | 17:21 |
| trollfot | faassen: I have no idea how to compile this list or I'd have done it | 17:21 |
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| Theuni1 | wanna move on to the ztk release questions or keep on the build topic? | 17:21 |
| hannosch | if you get me buildout location or versions.cfg list, I can figure it out myself | 17:21 |
| LeoRochael | a windows egg laying buildbot could listen for the presence of 'tags' in the repository | 17:22 |
| Theuni1 | LeoRochael: that's an option, too. | 17:22 |
| faassen | trollfot: take the groktk (and the ztk and zopeapp) and find out which need binary compiles at all. (i think there's a list of those someone made on grok-dev). then go through all the versions listed on pypi of those, and see whether there's a 32 and 64 bit egg. | 17:22 |
| LeoRochael | this way we don't have to actually release to pypi to see if there are windows breakages | 17:23 |
| Theuni1 | about the list of builds: two issues I have with that is that I'd like to run a script on svn.zope.org which produces a list of builds we need, then walks up to the buildbots we have and alarm us automatically if we're missing any builds. | 17:23 |
| Theuni1 | otherwise some poor person will have to manually check *lots* of combinations which keep changing here and there. | 17:23 |
| faassen | hannosch: um: http://svn.zope.org/*checkout*/zopetoolkit/trunk/zopeapp.cfg?rev=108938 | 17:24 |
| faassen | hannosch: and http://svn.zope.org/*checkout*/zopetoolkit/trunk/ztk.cfg?rev=108938 | 17:24 |
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| hannosch | faassen: ok. I'll take a look tomorrow | 17:24 |
| LeoRochael | so I guess our first issue is figuring out mechanically which eggs we need build | 17:24 |
| faassen | hannosch: thanks! | 17:24 |
| faassen | trollfot: yay, hanno is going to look into it. | 17:24 |
| Theuni1 | LeoRochael: i think we opened two cans of worms by now | 17:25 |
| trollfot | hannosch: you are my hero | 17:25 |
| Theuni1 | a) which eggs need automatic windows builds | 17:25 |
| Theuni1 | b) what test runs do we need | 17:25 |
| faassen | yeah. | 17:25 |
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| faassen | I think a bit more than that. | 17:25 |
| faassen | ah, wait, no. | 17:25 |
| faassen | anyway, if we can solve a) we'd be happy already, if the automatic windows builds happen. | 17:25 |
| faassen | if it turns out we have a lot of windows breakages then we need more ways to test on windows. | 17:26 |
| faassen | which involves b) | 17:26 |
| Theuni1 | right. so a) would be the thing that monitors specific pypi packages for releases and creates windows builds automatically, right? | 17:26 |
| Theuni1 | (the combination thing of different windows versions and python versions comes into play again) | 17:27 |
| Theuni1 | Ok. We're almost at the 30 minutes limit. | 17:27 |
| LeoRochael | how about this for an algorithm: for each toolkit, for each toolkit package, if there is a new tag and its setup.py declares the need to build extensions, build the package and run all tests of that toolkit | 17:28 |
| faassen | anyway, I'm happy you guys are looking into this. it's one of the topics we have to deal with during a grok release. | 17:28 |
| LeoRochael | this way we can get windows failures before a release, but after building the egg | 17:28 |
| faassen | it's almost more important than a ZTK release, as we can easily tag that. | 17:28 |
| Theuni1 | Small rewrap: we're still looking for a volunteer to coordinate the efforts of nightly builds/tests -- automatic windows builds that create binary distributions would be *very* welcome -- the list of project/platform/python/... well, we need to flesh that out more. | 17:29 |
| Theuni1 | The official meeting time is over now. ;) | 17:30 |
| Theuni1 | LeoRochael: I think I'd keep those a bit more distinct. | 17:30 |
| hannosch | I can only offer manual windows egg builds for one specific combination. setting up a cross-compilation setup for 32/64 bit was too complicated and nothing you can reproduce easily | 17:30 |
| Theuni1 | At least I'd prefer having the pypi-based thing that monitors our projects get released on pypi and if needed builds the egg -- independent of whether it belongs to a toolkit or not. we do have non-toolkit-packages ;) | 17:31 |
| faassen | Theuni1: yeah, Zope 2 packages which have binary stuff. | 17:31 |
| baijum | FYI, here is the current status of Windows binaries: http://wiki.zope.org/bluebream/StatusOfWindowsBinaryPackages | 17:31 |
| faassen | Theuni1: beyond the toolkit (and zopeapp) and Zope 2 I think we don't have more. | 17:31 |
| faassen | baijum: oh, cool. | 17:32 |
| Theuni1 | zodb is there ;) | 17:32 |
| faassen | Theuni1: true. | 17:32 |
| hannosch | sure. I built the zodb 64bit version | 17:32 |
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| Theuni1 | And I'm a Unix fan, so I like independent small things that work together. | 17:32 |
| sidnei_ | i have a cross-compilation setup for 32/64 and no issues hannosch | 17:32 |
| hannosch | sidnei_: but you have a paid for Visual Studio I guess? | 17:33 |
| sidnei_ | i would like to propose using windows machines on amazon ec2 though, those could be easily spawned by hudson | 17:33 |
| sidnei_ | hannosch, nope. express edition and the platform sdk | 17:33 |
| hannosch | I used the free tools from M$ and that was somewhat painful | 17:33 |
| baijum | ZODB binary for Python 2.5 in 64 bit is not available | 17:33 |
| hannosch | aha | 17:33 |
| faassen | I am not on the foundation board. | 17:33 |
| faassen | but I think getting windows servers (on ec2 or whatever) and visual study thingy.. | 17:33 |
| faassen | paying for that.. we could ask the board. :) | 17:34 |
| faassen | visual studio, I mean. | 17:34 |
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| sidnei_ | we could get a visual studio license for free from ms | 17:34 |
| J1m | +1 to leveraging ec2 to gain platform access. | 17:34 |
| baijum | +1 for ZF funded machine | 17:34 |
| sidnei_ | the python-dev developers were given licenses | 17:34 |
| faassen | cool. | 17:34 |
| LeoRochael | we only need VS express right? | 17:34 |
| sidnei_ | i think steve holden was looking into that | 17:34 |
| faassen | so that should be on the ZF todo list. :) | 17:34 |
| LeoRochael | and can't we compile with MinGW? | 17:34 |
| sidnei_ | vs express is enough for python 2.6 yes | 17:34 |
| faassen | Theuni1: do you hear ZF board? :) | 17:34 |
| sidnei_ | i would not recommend mingw | 17:35 |
| faassen | Theuni1: (now you say: ah, we'll delegate a volunteer) | 17:35 |
| hannosch | LeoRochael: MingW doesn't work for 64bit | 17:35 |
| faassen | okay, interesting. | 17:35 |
| Theuni1 | did I hear someone volunteer? :) | 17:35 |
| * Theuni1 watches who does *not* step back | 17:35 | |
| * hannosch steps back just in case | 17:35 | |
| * LeoRochael pushes sidnei forward | 17:35 | |
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| sidnei_ | i can setup an AMI for py26/64/32 | 17:36 |
| sidnei_ | i think amazon added 'shared accounts' recently, so everyone using that account gets billed centrally | 17:37 |
| faassen | what's an AMI? | 17:37 |
| sidnei_ | amazon machine image | 17:37 |
| faassen | ah, cool. | 17:37 |
| faassen | sidnei_: what about py25 and py24? | 17:37 |
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| sidnei_ | faassen, those need visual studio 2003, would need a license | 17:37 |
| faassen | okay. | 17:37 |
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| Theuni1 | sidnei_: can you prepare a proposal to the ZF board for that which lays down the expected cost? | 17:37 |
| faassen | so ZF board looks into getting a license for VS2003. | 17:37 |
| Theuni1 | doesn't have to be fancy | 17:37 |
| hannosch | I built those on WinXP with MingW, that worked reasonably well | 17:37 |
| faassen | and ZF would need to fund EC2 machine. | 17:38 |
| faassen | hannosch: but no 64 bit, right? | 17:38 |
| sidnei_ | again, i think we can get a license for free from microsoft, since we would not be doing commercial work | 17:38 |
| hannosch | faassen: right | 17:38 |
| faassen | sidnei_: right, so we need someone to contact MS. | 17:38 |
| hannosch | sidnei_: indeed | 17:38 |
| sidnei_ | just need to mail their open source division, i can dig up the details | 17:38 |
| faassen | so, ZF board, please contact MS. maybe through Steve Holden. | 17:38 |
| * Theuni1 watches faassen with a raised eyebrow | 17:38 | |
| faassen | :) | 17:38 |
| faassen | Theuni1: well, it's clear it comes back to you, right? | 17:39 |
| hannosch | faassen: enjoying the freedom already ;) | 17:39 |
| faassen | sure. | 17:39 |
| Theuni1 | I'm just the messenger. I don't think just pushing random little things onto the ZF board todo list will help. | 17:39 |
| faassen | I was about to volunteer I can mail Steve Holden for the ZF, but I wasn't going to say it. | 17:39 |
| faassen | Theuni1: this isn't random. we need funding for EC2, so that's a board topic. | 17:39 |
| faassen | Theuni1: we also need to officially ask the open source folks for a license. they'll give it to the ZF. | 17:40 |
| hannosch | sidnei_: how often do you need to update the ami? I think Python 2.6.5 just updated the OpenSSL version or so. how would that work? and updating to 2.6.5 in the first place? | 17:40 |
| Theuni1 | faassen: What I heard was: we need funding for an AMI. oh ... and *maybe* some money for *this* ... or wait ... maybe no funding for this but contact that guy. ;) | 17:41 |
| sidnei_ | hannosch, if i recall, you fire up the existing ami, update it and 'rebundle', creating a new ami. | 17:41 |
| Theuni1 | I don't think that will work for getting the board to make a decision. | 17:41 |
| faassen | Theuni1: come on, you can think right? | 17:41 |
| faassen | geez. | 17:41 |
| faassen | Theuni1: you're on the board. you know the topic. make a proposal to the board that you think will help them make a decision. | 17:42 |
| Theuni1 | well, thanks. | 17:43 |
| faassen | well, what else would you want me to do? | 17:43 |
| Theuni1 | At least not to *imply* that I structure the proposal you want from me. | 17:43 |
| faassen | okay, bye. | 17:43 |
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| Theuni1 | haha | 17:43 |
| Theuni1 | :/ | 17:43 |
| * trollfot sighs | 17:44 | |
| * Theuni1 stares a bit | 17:45 | |
| hannosch | Theuni1: one suggestion: only put two things up on the discussion list for next time :) | 17:45 |
| Theuni1 | hannosch: yeah :) | 17:45 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei_: i think getting shared infrastructure that can belong to the foundation is a good idea. right now the amount of open questions that start popping up feels like there's some work needed to put that in a shape that the ZF can decide upon. | 17:46 |
| Theuni1 | I don't have enough knowledge about the implications of how the pricing is set, what is needed WRT running different versions of windows, 32/64-bit, python versions, compilers, etc. | 17:46 |
| hannosch | well, it would help if we dropped support for some old Python versions for the ZTK ;) | 17:47 |
| sidnei_ | Theuni1, ok. i can make no promise about timeline. i can start by writing up all that i know about the subject, and would be nice to get a second volunteer to help looking into issues. | 17:47 |
| Theuni1 | I also don't know about the licensing issues with Windows on EC2 etc ... do you think you can write up an overview of what is needed? | 17:47 |
| hannosch | Zope 2.12+ only supports Python 2.6 ... makes it a lot easier :) | 17:47 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei_: i'd be happy to *help*, but I won't be able to lead that effort. | 17:47 |
| Theuni1 | Something else that occured to me that if we ask the ZF for money, we better put something in place to ensure the ZF doesn't burn the money. | 17:48 |
| Theuni1 | Also, IMHO until getting those EC2 machines paid for, there's other tasks in the build structuring that should happen first. | 17:48 |
| Theuni1 | I don't think we have time pressure, do you? | 17:49 |
| sidnei_ | i dont. ;) | 17:49 |
| Theuni1 | I can gently let the board know that the idea has come up but we'll prepare a bit more details until actually asking. Is that ok for you? | 17:50 |
| hannosch | having an AMI that everyone can use (and pay for himself) is a good first step. that allows more people to build things manually. automating and cost is a separate issue | 17:50 |
| sidnei_ | hannosch, you nailed it. | 17:50 |
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| Theuni1 | ah | 17:50 |
| Theuni1 | good point | 17:50 |
| sidnei | hannosch, also, some of this might be useful for plone too. | 17:51 |
| hannosch | I don't have a problem using Jarn's EC account to spend a dollar once in a while | 17:51 |
| hannosch | sidnei: sure. that's why I build all those Python 2.6 eggs in the first place ;) | 17:52 |
| Theuni1 | Ok guys, I'll drop out now and prepare the protocol. | 17:52 |
| Theuni1 | real world is calling :) | 17:52 |
| hannosch | sidnei: if you can lead the effort with no time pressure, I'll be happy to review and help | 17:52 |
| sidnei | hannosch, great, thank you! | 17:52 |
| hannosch | just installed a sharepoint 2010 demo instance on ec2 ... it's kinda fun :) | 17:53 |
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| mcdonc | damn, missed the meeting | 18:22 |
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| Theuni1 | mcdonc: hey there | 18:26 |
| mcdonc | Theuni1: hey ;) | 18:26 |
| Theuni1 | We talked about testing and binary builds for windows mostly. I'll get the protocol later today. | 18:27 |
| Theuni1 | I managed to piss Martijn off. :( | 18:27 |
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| MJ | Theuni1: Growl. | 18:31 |
| MJ | Theuni1: ;-) "Oh, the *other* Martijn?" | 18:32 |
| Theuni1 | yeah | 18:32 |
| mcdonc | Theuni1: yup, just saw it in the backlog... shit happens i guess. | 18:33 |
| Theuni1 | I didn't actually see that coming, although I maybe could have after I re-read that for a bit. | 18:33 |
| mcdonc | cool on ec2, i didnt know they offered windows images | 18:33 |
| Theuni1 | Then again, it feels like walking on egshells to me. | 18:33 |
| mcdonc | yes, he does get wound tight | 18:34 |
| hannosch | mcdonc: they do, and the good thing is that they take care of the license fees stuff | 18:34 |
| mcdonc | hannosch: that's awesome | 18:34 |
| hannosch | you can even get an ami with windows server, sql server and all that crap directly. pretty easy | 18:34 |
| mcdonc | total win | 18:35 |
| hannosch | yep. setting up windows was suddenly quite nice :) | 18:35 |
| Theuni1 | hannosch: do they offer 32/64? | 18:35 |
| hannosch | Theuni1: yes | 18:35 |
| Theuni1 | very nice | 18:36 |
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| hannosch | though recent versions of M$ servers only run on 64bit anyways | 18:36 |
| Theuni1 | hmm | 18:36 |
| Theuni1 | i'll let you and sidnei figure out what we need :) | 18:36 |
| hannosch | yep :) in general EC2 makes running Windows much much nicer | 18:38 |
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| fdrake | How do you use a Windows machine in EC2? Is there a standard remote login tool that works with Windows? | 19:00 |
| * fdrake is just curious, having no real use for Windows. | 19:00 | |
| hannosch | fdrake: sure. remote desktop connection | 19:00 |
| hannosch | like VNC just Microsoft | 19:01 |
| hannosch | of course you can install a SSH server into Windows as well | 19:01 |
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| bubu_1212 | hello everybody | 19:02 |
| hannosch | an Amazon provides you with the Windows API's to talk to the machine remotely, so you can setup stuff automatically without using a graphical tool | 19:02 |
| bubu_1212 | someone can tell how can I manage the threads in zope (v2.11) | 19:02 |
| bubu_1212 | ? | 19:02 |
| Theuni1 | bubu_1212: what do you mean by manage? | 19:03 |
| Theuni1 | there's the option to tell how many threads the server uses. | 19:03 |
| bubu_1212 | Theuni1: for exemaple to implement semaphores | 19:04 |
| bubu_1212 | to guarantee that for a specific block the threads running in sequential mode | 19:04 |
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| bubu_1212 | one by one | 19:05 |
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| Theuni1 | so what's to manage there? | 19:06 |
| Theuni1 | if you have a resource you need to lock there's the thread/threading modules in python that provide ready implementations of semaphores/locks/... | 19:07 |
| fdrake | hannosch: I guess should play around with that someday, since I occasionally need Windows. It's just more fun to resist. | 19:09 |
| hannosch | fdrake: resistance is good. just keep in mind that there's much more painless ways to get windows today | 19:10 |
| fdrake | :-) | 19:10 |
| fdrake | It's probably unrealistic to migrate my kids to EC2-based machines for playing WoW. :-) | 19:11 |
| hannosch | fdrake: yeah ;) they won't be happy with the latency | 19:12 |
| fdrake | Though they'd likely be faster than the dinosaurs they're using now. | 19:12 |
| fdrake | Heh. | 19:12 |
| fdrake | The older dinosaur is like 6 years old, at least; latency is the least of the problems. | 19:12 |
| fdrake | Unless you count the latency of the graphics card. :-) | 19:12 |
| fdrake | Ok, lunchtime... | 19:13 |
| hannosch | well. remote graphical connections always introduce some heavy latency. if your game is real-time, it's no fun. it's like: oh Is see a monster - choose weapon, oh I'm dead :( | 19:13 |
| trollfot | closer to real-life than real-time, then :p | 19:14 |
| sm | g'day all | 19:14 |
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| TresEquis | Theuni1: sorry I missed the dev meeting today -- anybody have a link to a transcript? | 19:52 |
| hannosch | TresEquis: I haven't. but there wasn't much conclusion. talked about buildbots and windows binary eggs for the most part | 19:53 |
| bigkevmcd | in the absence of anything else, I have a full log from the period | 19:53 |
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| TresEquis | bigkevmcd: would be willing to e-mail it? tseaver@palladion.com | 19:54 |
| bigkevmcd | TresEquis: sure | 19:55 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: i still have to write up the summary, but i have postponed that until tomorrow morning. | 19:55 |
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| TresEquis | Theuni1: no worries, just wanted to catch up | 19:56 |
| Theuni1 | sure | 19:56 |
| ignas | how do I fix error_log views if I am getting "can't encode (unicode character) in latin-1" ? | 19:56 |
| ignas | in Zope2.11 | 19:56 |
| TresEquis | Prompted by faassen's note to foundation-info I've done some correspondence with Sidnei and PSF's Steve Holden about Windows builds | 19:56 |
| hannosch | uh? that fast. amazing :) | 19:57 |
| * hannosch cheers the president | 19:58 | |
| TresEquis | well, I got my emails sent: haven't heard back yet | 19:58 |
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| Theuni1 | faassen went the constructive route and actually wrote up a structured request to the board - much better than I could have extracted from the stuff I saw during the chat. | 19:58 |
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| bigkevmcd | TresEquis: Oh, and the times in that log are UTC | 20:33 |
| TresEquis | Steve Holden got me the contact at M$ who provided MSDN licenses for Python core devs: I have written him to ask for a license donation to the ZF | 20:34 |
| hannosch | TresEquis: if I remember correctly from the PF deal, M$ wants the names of individuals whom to give the licenses personally | 20:36 |
| hannosch | but they'll tell you, I'd guess | 20:36 |
| TresEquis | bigkevmcd: thanks for the transcript | 20:39 |
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| TresEquis | hannosch: yup, we can get them whatever they need on that | 20:39 |
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| betabug | ignas: set the encoding in the zmi IIRC | 20:44 |
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| betabug | ignas: try it like this: http://betabug.ch/blogs/ch-athens/96 | 20:45 |
| kosh | greetings mobile marshmallow cookers! | 20:45 |
| moldy | hi | 20:45 |
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| moldy | ok, this is a stupid question, but where is the actual api documentation for zodb? i cannot find it | 20:46 |
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| mcdonc | moldy: this is probably as close as it gets.. although its older than dirt... http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Developer/Models/ZODB | 20:50 |
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| hannosch | moldy: you can look at http://zodb.org/ but it doesn't have much | 20:51 |
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| Theuni1 | moldy: you can also have a look at the various interfaces.py files in the source | 20:52 |
| kosh | so how are you weirdos doing today? | 20:53 |
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| TresEquis | kosh: weird as ever | 21:03 |
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| mcdonc | i dont *feel* funny | 21:06 |
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| kosh | mcdonc: you have gotten used to it | 21:09 |
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| moldy | mcdonc, hannosch, Theuni1: thanks. i didn't imagine that such a popular module would not have real api documentation. | 23:22 |
| hannosch | moldy: zope in general isn't famous for having any documentation except the source | 23:23 |
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