| *** Kabz|4D has quit IRC | 00:09 | |
| *** marksd has joined #zope | 00:12 | |
| *** marksd is now known as madmax_ | 00:12 | |
| *** madmax_ has quit IRC | 00:13 | |
| *** r0ver has left #zope | 00:20 | |
| *** fredvd has joined #zope | 00:21 | |
| *** daMaestro has joined #zope | 00:26 | |
| *** fredvd|ill has joined #zope | 00:32 | |
| *** mcdonc has quit IRC | 00:32 | |
| *** mcdonc has joined #zope | 00:34 | |
| *** fredvd has quit IRC | 00:35 | |
| *** fredvd|ill is now known as fredvd | 00:37 | |
| *** jim_SFU has quit IRC | 00:40 | |
| *** TresEquis has quit IRC | 00:45 | |
| *** r0ver has joined #zope | 00:55 | |
| *** Hypergraphe has quit IRC | 00:59 | |
| *** allisterb_ has joined #zope | 00:59 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 01:02 | |
| *** MatthewWilkes has joined #zope | 01:05 | |
| *** MrWu has joined #zope | 01:08 | |
| *** opsec has quit IRC | 01:09 | |
| *** MrTango has quit IRC | 01:10 | |
| *** MrWu has quit IRC | 01:11 | |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 01:21 | |
| *** opsec has joined #zope | 01:23 | |
| *** tiwula has quit IRC | 01:25 | |
| *** evilbungle has quit IRC | 01:34 | |
| *** r0ver has quit IRC | 01:55 | |
| *** shen-long has joined #zope | 02:02 | |
| *** r0ver has joined #zope | 02:21 | |
| *** davisagli has quit IRC | 02:41 | |
| *** mr_jolly has quit IRC | 02:47 | |
| *** tiwula has joined #zope | 02:48 | |
| *** mr_jolly has joined #zope | 02:50 | |
| *** r0ver has left #zope | 03:05 | |
| *** daMaestro has quit IRC | 03:07 | |
| *** fredvd has quit IRC | 03:13 | |
| *** sidnei has quit IRC | 03:15 | |
| *** sidnei has joined #zope | 03:16 | |
| *** aaronv has quit IRC | 03:22 | |
| *** zagy has quit IRC | 03:42 | |
| *** davisagli has joined #zope | 03:47 | |
| *** zagy has joined #zope | 03:50 | |
| *** mr_jolly has left #zope | 03:56 | |
| *** RaFromBRC has quit IRC | 04:22 | |
| *** allisterb_ has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** baijum has joined #zope | 05:09 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 05:16 | |
| *** runyaga has quit IRC | 05:42 | |
| *** MatthewWilkes has quit IRC | 05:46 | |
| *** baijum has quit IRC | 05:56 | |
| *** kiev has joined #zope | 06:19 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 06:34 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 06:40 | |
| *** tiwula has quit IRC | 06:42 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 06:46 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 06:50 | |
| *** huajie has joined #zope | 07:03 | |
| *** kiev has left #zope | 07:08 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 07:10 | |
| *** baijum has joined #zope | 07:12 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 07:23 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 07:32 | |
| teratorn | anyone know how to catch unhandled "server errors" (zope3) ? | 07:38 |
|---|---|---|
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 07:45 | |
| *** factor has quit IRC | 07:46 | |
| *** factor_ has joined #zope | 07:46 | |
| *** factor_ has quit IRC | 07:58 | |
| *** factor has joined #zope | 07:58 | |
| *** redir has quit IRC | 08:04 | |
| *** redir has joined #zope | 08:14 | |
| *** touff has quit IRC | 08:24 | |
| *** sashav has quit IRC | 08:34 | |
| *** touff has joined #zope | 08:35 | |
| *** redir has quit IRC | 08:37 | |
| *** timte has joined #zope | 08:37 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC | 08:53 | |
| *** huajie has quit IRC | 09:12 | |
| *** davisagli has left #zope | 09:13 | |
| *** phimic has joined #zope | 09:14 | |
| *** sashav has joined #zope | 09:25 | |
| *** mr_jolly has joined #zope | 09:30 | |
| *** planetzopebot has quit IRC | 09:33 | |
| *** planetzopebot has joined #zope | 09:34 | |
| *** goschtl has joined #zope | 09:52 | |
| *** thetet has joined #zope | 09:54 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 09:55 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope | 09:55 | |
| *** pthulin has joined #zope | 10:00 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has joined #zope | 10:01 | |
| *** smita1 has quit IRC | 10:11 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 10:17 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC | 10:19 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope | 10:19 | |
| *** phimic has quit IRC | 10:32 | |
| *** phimic has joined #zope | 10:32 | |
| *** smita1 has joined #zope | 10:37 | |
| *** bigkevmcd_ is now known as bigkevmcd | 11:02 | |
| *** emrojo has joined #zope | 11:04 | |
| *** fredvd has joined #zope | 11:08 | |
| *** neo|4D has joined #zope | 11:16 | |
| *** ccomb has quit IRC | 11:17 | |
| *** MJ has joined #zope | 11:26 | |
| *** owll has joined #zope | 12:01 | |
| *** evilbungle has joined #zope | 12:03 | |
| *** sunew has joined #zope | 12:06 | |
| *** TomBlockley has joined #zope | 12:07 | |
| *** owll has left #zope | 12:08 | |
| *** smita1 has quit IRC | 12:26 | |
| *** touff has quit IRC | 12:29 | |
| *** goplus has joined #zope | 12:33 | |
| *** teix has joined #zope | 12:33 | |
| *** goplus has left #zope | 12:34 | |
| *** touff has joined #zope | 12:46 | |
| *** fredvd has quit IRC | 12:46 | |
| *** fredvd has joined #zope | 12:56 | |
| *** rwat has joined #zope | 12:57 | |
| rwat | anyone got advice for the most robust way of delivering a ZEO back end? Anyone using SAN? | 12:58 |
| planetzopebot | TTW Dexterity Vocabularies - First report from the Tahoe Sprint working on user-enterable... (Ross Patterson) http://rpatterson.net/blog/ttw-dexterity-vocabularies | 13:04 |
| planetzopebot | AT Relation Field - Working with David Brennan on two-way references and relationships between... (Ross Patterson) http://rpatterson.net/blog/at-relation-field | 13:04 |
| planetzopebot | Sphinx + Mercurial = My favorite CMS (Let's discuss the matter further) http://rhodesmill.org/brandon/2010/sphinx-mercurial-cms/ | 13:04 |
| planetzopebot | Peppercorn: A Simpler Way to Decode Form Submission Data (plope) http://plope.com/peppercorn | 13:04 |
| planetzopebot | Technologies besides Plone (Netsight Blog) http://www.netsight.co.uk/blog/2009/2/17/technologies-besides-plone | 13:04 |
| *** agroszer has joined #zope | 13:05 | |
| *** eperez_ has joined #zope | 13:10 | |
| *** mr_jolly has quit IRC | 13:14 | |
| *** smita1 has joined #zope | 13:15 | |
| *** mr_jolly has joined #zope | 13:18 | |
| *** mr_jolly has quit IRC | 13:22 | |
| *** mr_jolly has joined #zope | 13:23 | |
| *** dayne has joined #zope | 13:25 | |
| *** aaronv has joined #zope | 13:27 | |
| *** touff has quit IRC | 13:29 | |
| *** touff has joined #zope | 13:30 | |
| *** dayne has quit IRC | 13:31 | |
| *** hever has joined #zope | 13:35 | |
| *** kevinkal has joined #zope | 13:37 | |
| *** touff has quit IRC | 13:40 | |
| *** touff has joined #zope | 13:44 | |
| *** aaronv has quit IRC | 13:52 | |
| *** kevinkal has quit IRC | 14:01 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has quit IRC | 14:04 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has joined #zope | 14:05 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC | 14:05 | |
| *** tarek has joined #zope | 14:08 | |
| *** tarek_ has joined #zope | 14:16 | |
| *** huajie has joined #zope | 14:18 | |
| *** tarek has quit IRC | 14:20 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope | 14:21 | |
| *** aaronv has joined #zope | 14:24 | |
| *** kleist has joined #zope | 14:29 | |
| *** donmarten has joined #zope | 14:31 | |
| *** tarek_ has quit IRC | 14:34 | |
| *** benji has joined #zope | 14:35 | |
| *** tarek has joined #zope | 14:36 | |
| *** aaronv has quit IRC | 14:37 | |
| *** aaronv has joined #zope | 14:40 | |
| *** aaronv has quit IRC | 14:42 | |
| *** smita1 has quit IRC | 14:56 | |
| *** kevinkal has joined #zope | 15:03 | |
| *** tarek has quit IRC | 15:07 | |
| *** tarek has joined #zope | 15:08 | |
| *** tarek has quit IRC | 15:09 | |
| *** digitalmortician has joined #zope | 15:13 | |
| *** donmarten has quit IRC | 15:15 | |
| *** agroszer has quit IRC | 15:15 | |
| *** trollfot has joined #zope | 15:16 | |
| hever | How can I add infos like "Header append Cache-Control "no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate" " for a special object a folder or perhaps for the whole server? | 15:18 |
| betabug | assuming Zope 2 ("always give Zope version...") using an "Accelerated HTTP Cache Manager" | 15:19 |
| hever | it just have an interval, where can I disable caching at all ? | 15:22 |
| betabug | hmmmm, don't remember, in my code in those cases I just add a header to the RESPONSE in question | 15:23 |
| betabug | REQUEST.RESPONSE.addHeader('Pragma', 'no-cache') | 15:24 |
| hever | hmm thank you. | 15:26 |
| betabug | np :-) | 15:27 |
| *** pingviin1 has quit IRC | 15:27 | |
| *** aaronv has joined #zope | 15:30 | |
| *** jwhisnant has joined #zope | 15:30 | |
| *** pingviini has joined #zope | 15:31 | |
| hever | betabug, I'm using "<dtml-call "RESPONSE.addHeader('Pragma', 'no-cache')">" must it be REQUEST.RESPONSE or just RESPONSE ? | 15:32 |
| betabug | hmmm, not doing dtml much myself | 15:32 |
| betabug | but I guess if dtml finds RESPONSE, then go for it, if it doesn't, then use REQUST.RESPONSE or _.RESPONSE or whatever that was | 15:33 |
| betabug | use something like LiveHTTPHeader in FireFox to check if it worked | 15:34 |
| hever | hmm good hint | 15:34 |
| *** Arfrever has joined #zope | 15:36 | |
| hever | ok it works thank you. My damn firefox just seems to cache regardless of this settings... | 15:36 |
| *** ggozad has joined #zope | 15:39 | |
| do3cc | betabug: you know about the plone spring currently in your country? | 15:39 |
| ggozad | heh, I was just pinging him about it ;) | 15:39 |
| betabug | can I avoid knowing about it? :-p | 15:39 |
| do3cc | need guns? ;-) | 15:40 |
| betabug | ggozad: where? when? | 15:40 |
| ggozad | betabug: don't really know, I am in Crete... | 15:40 |
| betabug | haha | 15:41 |
| trollfot | ggozad: for now :D | 15:41 |
| ggozad | heh... | 15:41 |
| ggozad | betabug: but you can ping them about it and get together for a beer. | 15:41 |
| betabug | it's today? | 15:41 |
| *** agroszer has joined #zope | 15:41 | |
| betabug | or "these days"? | 15:41 |
| ggozad | betabug: they'll be around up to the weekend. | 15:42 |
| betabug | aha | 15:42 |
| betabug | except for Thursday, since they will go to the parade and then eat fish with garlic sauce? | 15:42 |
| ggozad | betabug: zupo, chaoflow and Rotonen on #plone | 15:42 |
| ggozad | betabug: exactly. | 15:42 |
| betabug | well, too bad, I'm busy tonight and from tomorrow I'll be travelling for the 4-day weekend | 15:43 |
| ggozad | betabug: no worries... | 15:44 |
| betabug | any idea where they are? | 15:44 |
| betabug | maybe I can pass by to say hi | 15:44 |
| betabug | though after work my schedule is a bit filled | 15:44 |
| ggozad | betabug: ping them. I imagine somewhere central. | 15:45 |
| *** ggozad is now known as ggozad|afk | 15:53 | |
| *** phimic has quit IRC | 15:53 | |
| *** phimic has joined #zope | 15:54 | |
| betabug | looks like I'll pass by and say hello later | 15:55 |
| sm | heh betabug.. drinking with plonies! | 15:56 |
| *** pit has joined #zope | 15:57 | |
| betabug | yeah :-) | 15:57 |
| *** pit has quit IRC | 15:58 | |
| *** ggozad|afk is now known as ggozad | 15:59 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #zope | 16:09 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has quit IRC | 16:10 | |
| *** kobold_ has joined #zope | 16:10 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has joined #zope | 16:10 | |
| *** tarek has joined #zope | 16:13 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 16:17 | |
| *** TresEquis has joined #zope | 16:19 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 16:19 | |
| *** allisterb_ has joined #zope | 16:25 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 16:26 | |
| *** allisterb_ has quit IRC | 16:27 | |
| *** baijum has quit IRC | 16:27 | |
| *** bowe1 has joined #zope | 16:27 | |
| *** goschtl has quit IRC | 16:28 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 16:30 | |
| *** jim_SFU has joined #zope | 16:30 | |
| *** Arfrever has quit IRC | 16:31 | |
| *** astoon has joined #zope | 16:32 | |
| *** digitalmortician has quit IRC | 16:34 | |
| *** dunny has quit IRC | 16:35 | |
| *** RUNYAGAs has joined #zope | 16:39 | |
| *** digitalmortician has joined #zope | 16:40 | |
| RUNYAGAs | Linux distros aren't shipping zope 2.12? | 16:40 |
| betabug | yeah, somebody mentioned that | 16:40 |
| RUNYAGAs | are they dist zenoss? | 16:41 |
| betabug | don't remember which one, I think Debian | 16:41 |
| RUNYAGAs | not a prob I care about particularly | 16:41 |
| betabug | IIRC it was due to the new style install procedure | 16:41 |
| *** vortec has joined #zope | 16:41 | |
| betabug | not my problem either :-) | 16:41 |
| RUNYAGAs | what is on agenda? | 16:41 |
| TresEquis | RUNYAGAs: Debian / Ubuntu is working on repackaging zope.* using setuptools | 16:42 |
| kobold_ | RUNYAGAs: we (as debian) do not distribute zope2.12 because there is not anymore a "zope2.12" source package | 16:42 |
| TresEquis | kobold_: there is Zope2-2.12.tgz | 16:42 |
| RUNYAGAs | TresEquis: fantastic iirc they have had some fights I ternally at canonical buildout vs debs | 16:43 |
| TresEquis | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Zope2 | 16:43 |
| kobold_ | TresEquis: last time I checked it was buildout based | 16:43 |
| TresEquis | no | 16:43 |
| kobold_ | TresEquis: which is not FHS compliant | 16:43 |
| TresEquis | you can install just like any other setuptools-based Python package | 16:43 |
| kobold_ | I will check... I'm quite sure that we gave up for that specific reason. | 16:43 |
| TresEquis | assuming you have the dependencies packaged, of coures | 16:43 |
| kobold_ | does it contain all the zope* packages needed? or does it consider them to be dependencies? | 16:44 |
| TresEquis | $ /path/to/virtualenv --no-site-packages /tmp/z212; /tmp/z212/bin/easy_install Zope2 will get you there | 16:44 |
| TresEquis | dependencies | 16:44 |
| *** kobold_ is now known as kobold | 16:44 | |
| *** kobold has joined #zope | 16:44 | |
| TresEquis | all the current stuff should be able to be packaged using the same strategy as other Python egg-based distributions | 16:45 |
| kobold | that's the main problem, we don't have all those "dependencies" in debian, we used to package zope2.12 as a monolithic package built from the tar.gz | 16:45 |
| kobold | I will investigate, we gave up at least one year ago (with Plone too, FWIW) | 16:45 |
| TresEquis | you never packaged 2.12 as a monolithic tarball | 16:45 |
| TresEquis | 2.11 was the last monolith | 16:46 |
| kobold | I stopped with zope2.10, you are right | 16:46 |
| TresEquis | The canonical guys have done lots of the python-zope* packages, I think | 16:46 |
| kobold | yep, in debian we currently have some core zope.* packages, but no zope.app.* | 16:47 |
| kobold | in ubuntu there are more packages needed by schooltool, IIRC | 16:47 |
| kobold | so... no plans to provide again a monolithic tar.gz for zope2 releases? :) | 16:48 |
| kobold | it would help a lot distro packagers, I suppose (at least this is true for debian and ubuntu) | 16:48 |
| vortec | hi #zope. is there a way to make ZPublisher.HTTPRequest.FileUpload tell me how many bytes were transferred yet? | 16:49 |
| *** mgedmin has joined #zope | 16:50 | |
| betabug | no | 16:50 |
| vortec | that's unfortunate. what's the reason for that? | 16:50 |
| vortec | (not sure i understand how ZPublisher works correctly) | 16:50 |
| TresEquis | vortec: what to you mean "yet"? | 16:51 |
| TresEquis | by the time the application is in play, the upload is done already, and in a tempfile | 16:52 |
| TresEquis | kobold: if we give you a monolith, that is like shipping "bundled libraries" | 16:53 |
| TresEquis | which itself would violate policy, I think | 16:53 |
| TresEquis | since the separate pieces are managed / released independently | 16:53 |
| vortec | oh, really? my understanding was this: the user selects a file, the action of that form is "/uploadHelper". "uploadHelper" is a zope method which takes REQUEST as a parameter. once the user hits "submit", "uploadHelper" is called and i have live information about the current upload available | 16:53 |
| *** regebro has joined #zope | 16:53 | |
| regebro | Yo! | 16:54 |
| *** agroszer has quit IRC | 16:55 | |
| kobold | TresEquis: I understand your point, but this is a packaging nightmare, because packaging zope2 means uploading 20-25 source packages (almost none of the dependencies is available in debian) | 16:55 |
| TresEquis | They are al "regular" eggs, which should be automatable, no? | 16:56 |
| TresEquis | they declare their dependencies correctly, etc. | 16:56 |
| kobold | yes, but AFAICK zope2 depends on specific versions of those eggs | 16:56 |
| kobold | so uploading a new (indipendent) zope.component can break zope2, isn't it? | 16:57 |
| TresEquis | it can -- how is that different than any other shared library? | 16:57 |
| *** Theuni1 has joined #zope | 16:57 | |
| kobold | TresEquis: you usually don't have a software which depends on >20 shared libraries you don't already have in the distribution | 16:58 |
| bigkevmcd | kobold: I'm not sure that's significant | 16:58 |
| kobold | I'm not saying it is not doable, I'm saying it is a lot of work, that's we we dropped it | 16:58 |
| bigkevmcd | kobold: the same could be said of almost any Gnome app | 16:58 |
| *** fdrake has joined #zope | 16:58 | |
| kobold | bigkevmcd: compare the gnome team in debian with the zope one, and you understand why it is not exactly the same situation :) | 16:59 |
| kobold | we don't have so much man power, sadly | 16:59 |
| bigkevmcd | and the package is usually awful to boot :-( | 16:59 |
| * Theuni1 dusts himself off | 17:00 | |
| kobold | anyway, it seems the preferred way to install zope stuff today is either buildout or virtenv, so nobody will miss the debian/ubuntu packages | 17:00 |
| * Theuni1 waves | 17:00 | |
| Theuni1 | so | 17:00 |
| Theuni1 | here's todays agenda: https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2010-March/039839.html | 17:00 |
| *** digitalmortician has quit IRC | 17:01 | |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: oh, you were able to make it? :) | 17:01 |
| trollfot | hi | 17:02 |
| Theuni1 | So the first topic would be the ZTK release manager. | 17:02 |
| regebro | hi all! | 17:02 |
| Theuni1 | As far as I summed the discussion last week all the actual proceedings of getting towards a release are postponed until we find an RM, right? | 17:02 |
| regebro | Was there any names mentioned? | 17:03 |
| * regebro says "not it!" and tags Theuni1. | 17:03 | |
| *** agroszer has joined #zope | 17:03 | |
| * fdrake reloads his caffeination vessel. | 17:03 | |
| Theuni1 | regebro: nope, no names were dropped. | 17:03 |
| Theuni1 | thanks for the tag | 17:03 |
| * Theuni1 puts the tag on the stack. | 17:03 | |
| Theuni1 | Now I have a tag stack. | 17:04 |
| regebro | :) | 17:04 |
| Theuni1 | regebro: we pondered suggesting individuals. but nobody stepped up and nobody nominated someone else. ;) | 17:04 |
| * betabug heads into town to see the plohn guys | 17:05 | |
| bigkevmcd | betabug: I'll look for the headlines... | 17:05 |
| regebro | Not a popular job, apparently. Can it be made easier? | 17:05 |
| Theuni1 | well. | 17:05 |
| vortec | so i may ask differently: where is the place zope deals with ongoing requests, before it handles the request itself and calls registered methods/scripts/templates? | 17:05 |
| * TresEquis nominates hannosch ;) | 17:05 | |
| Theuni1 | the job currently is labeled "define it yourself" | 17:06 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: hmm. actually i think someone tried that last week. | 17:06 |
| TresEquis | vortec: inside ZServer or the WSGI server | 17:06 |
| Theuni1 | hannosch refused because he's expecting to be pulled towards Z2 release manager | 17:06 |
| kobold | Theuni1: are we looking for *one* release manager? | 17:06 |
| Theuni1 | kobold: yes | 17:06 |
| kobold | so the concept of release team has been put off | 17:06 |
| *** opsec has quit IRC | 17:07 | |
| kobold | after the steering group did not work very well | 17:07 |
| Theuni1 | kobold: the idea was to have a single point for driving it. | 17:07 |
| Theuni1 | yeah, kinda. ;) | 17:07 |
| *** sashav has quit IRC | 17:07 | |
| Theuni1 | especially as we will need some more in-depth discussions and stuff to be followed specifically for the ztk and for communicating with the actual users | 17:07 |
| TresEquis | should we have each project which relies on ZTK nominate a representative (its own release manager) | 17:08 |
| TresEquis | and have that group do the job? | 17:08 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: sounds like the bootstrapping approach that would have been reasonable for the steering group in the first place. | 17:09 |
| *** thetetet has joined #zope | 17:09 | |
| fdrake | Have we defined goals for ZTK releases that make them measurable distinct from selecting specific versions from svn? | 17:09 |
| regebro | TresEquis: That makes a lot of sense actually. | 17:09 |
| Theuni1 | fdrake: only on a very high level. those would include documentation, defined points of backwards-compatibility changes, a desired level of synchronicity with various framework releases. | 17:10 |
| Theuni1 | fdrake: the point is that (component) developers have a chance of writing code that is compatible with z2, bluebream, grok etc | 17:10 |
| *** redir has joined #zope | 17:10 | |
| kobold | do the ztk consumers do time-based releases? | 17:11 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: i'm a bit suspicious about the voting details. what are the groups that get to vote/nominate? | 17:11 |
| Theuni1 | kobold: neh | 17:11 |
| fdrake | Ok, got it. It's more for the network effect than any stability in the codebases that form the ZTK itself. | 17:11 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: I would say Zope2, Grok, Bluebream for a start | 17:11 |
| kobold | Theuni1: so how would it be possible to share the same ztk among them? | 17:12 |
| TresEquis | if those three can converge on a single definition, everybody else will follow | 17:12 |
| Theuni1 | kobold: if Zope-2.X and grok Y and bb Z depend on ZTK W then everything is fine. why does that have to be timebased? | 17:12 |
| *** thetet has quit IRC | 17:13 | |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: sounds fair enough to me | 17:13 |
| kobold | TresEquis is right, if *they* don't agree, you cannot impose them a release strategy | 17:13 |
| *** menesis has joined #zope | 17:13 | |
| *** dayne has joined #zope | 17:13 | |
| Theuni1 | can i have a show of hands who thinks tres' idea should be implemented? | 17:14 |
| kobold | +1 | 17:14 |
| Theuni1 | +1 | 17:14 |
| RUNYAGAs | +1 | 17:15 |
| agroszer | +1 | 17:15 |
| TresEquis | +1 | 17:15 |
| *** timte has quit IRC | 17:15 | |
| Theuni1 | fdrake: right. the stability of the individual packages and the ztk itself should be there independent of the releases | 17:15 |
| Theuni1 | ok, so that sounds like we should approach that. | 17:16 |
| *** MrTango has joined #zope | 17:16 | |
| regebro | +1 | 17:16 |
| Theuni1 | I'll note that and make the effort of contacting the various communities. | 17:16 |
| TresEquis | ZODB is a special case, too | 17:16 |
| TresEquis | in that all three consume it, but it isn't part of the ZTK | 17:16 |
| TresEquis | per se | 17:17 |
| Theuni1 | right | 17:17 |
| regebro | It seems to be doing well anyway. | 17:17 |
| *** Arfrever has joined #zope | 17:17 | |
| regebro | Should it need release management we can suck it into ZTK, if our process works, | 17:17 |
| *** arnarl has joined #zope | 17:17 | |
| agroszer | I guess zodb release is in strong hands | 17:18 |
| Theuni1 | yeah, the changes usually aren't that drastic in the sense that they hinder the development of apps/components. they usually cover more operational aspects. | 17:18 |
| Theuni1 | regebro: that's what i thought. if the process itself works, then there should be no problem in just putting in the ZODB into the list of managed packages. we don't necessarily have to put the burden of caring about the dependency breakage onto the ZODB developers but onto the ZTk maintainers. | 17:18 |
| Theuni1 | if they want to upgrade to a new ZODB version, then that's fine. | 17:18 |
| *** pyqwer has joined #zope | 17:19 | |
| regebro | right | 17:19 |
| Theuni1 | but i'd leave that for the future. | 17:19 |
| Theuni1 | Next topic: bug tracking | 17:19 |
| *** baijum has joined #zope | 17:20 | |
| Theuni1 | I'm relatively sure that the ZTK packages aren't managed too well WRT bugs triage and fixing. | 17:20 |
| Theuni1 | Unfortunately that mainly comes from the issue that I'm loosing track of what's being tracked where and how many bugs are open etc. | 17:20 |
| Theuni1 | The Zope 2 guys seem to be doing pretty well, though. | 17:21 |
| Theuni1 | How does everyone else feel? | 17:21 |
| *** opsec has joined #zope | 17:21 | |
| regebro | I think Zope 2 has been doing badly too. | 17:21 |
| regebro | But hanno made a big cleanup recently. | 17:22 |
| Theuni1 | Are all the Zope 2 bugs managed in a single launchpad project? | 17:22 |
| kobold | I think one of the first tasks for the new RM is to define a central bug tracker for ZTK packages | 17:22 |
| regebro | Theuni1: Yup. | 17:22 |
| Theuni1 | kobold: well, there is the 'zope3' project in launchpad which historically covered the whole code base. | 17:23 |
| kobold | Theuni1: I did not say "create", I said "define" :) | 17:23 |
| kobold | quite sure there are bugs filed somewhere else too | 17:23 |
| Theuni1 | I hear you. :) | 17:23 |
| Theuni1 | I'm wondering whether to put all bugs of ZTK packages into a single place or not. | 17:23 |
| kobold | it should be crystal clear to everybody that *that* one is the central bt | 17:23 |
| kobold | why not? | 17:24 |
| regebro | Can we rename the Zope 3 tracker "ZTK"? | 17:24 |
| Theuni1 | putting them in many places definitely sounds like creating way too many things to watch out for. | 17:24 |
| sidnei | a 'project group' can be created in launchpad where you can centralize all the bugs from many different projects. one thing i am not sure is if a project can be in more than a 'project group' at once. | 17:24 |
| TresEquis | Theuni1: we could create a launchpad project for 'ztk' | 17:24 |
| Theuni1 | regebro: i think we can with a little help from the LP admins | 17:24 |
| TresEquis | and then triage zope3 bugs into it | 17:24 |
| Theuni1 | i might already have create a ztk product even | 17:24 |
| TresEquis | as applicabble | 17:24 |
| TresEquis | and use tags to indicate the component projects | 17:24 |
| Theuni1 | i actually also might have screwed with individual package projects | 17:24 |
| Theuni1 | TresEquis: i'd be happy with that if other people agree with that being a good approach. | 17:25 |
| sidnei | alternatively, when a bug is filed you can create a bug task through 'also affects' and assign it to a second project | 17:25 |
| sidnei | the 'right way' to do it as the system was designed would be to track individual statuses for the different projects | 17:25 |
| Theuni1 | right | 17:25 |
| * baijum got some ZTK bug assigned to BlueBream... now re-assigned to zope3 | 17:25 | |
| sidnei | so the bug gets filed against say 'zope.security' and then you mark 'also affects: ztk' and 'also affects: bluebream' | 17:26 |
| Theuni1 | i think the point why i started going down the road of individual projects in LP is that otherwise release management is impossible. | 17:26 |
| * mgedmin really wants every separate Python package to have its own launchpad bug tracker | 17:26 | |
| sidnei | and each individual bug task gets closed as the related projects release new versions | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | and some kind of a group so maintainers can search for all the bugs within the whole of ZTK/Bluebream/whatever | 17:26 |
| Theuni1 | mgedmin: right. that does have its benefits. but its a lot of management dance around that. | 17:26 |
| Theuni1 | i tried writing some tools with the LP API last EP but got stuck | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | the launchpad guys use zope 3 | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | I'm sure they would be glad to help us figure out the launchpad project management bits | 17:27 |
| Theuni1 | hmm | 17:27 |
| Theuni1 | here's a suggestion | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | heck, launchpad _is_ a ztk app | 17:27 |
| baijum | :) | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | eating own dogfood etc. | 17:27 |
| Theuni1 | I think we can start with Tres' suggestion and have less moving pieces and just ignore the release management part of LP's bug tracker for now. | 17:27 |
| Theuni1 | I'll definitely be at LP and I think LP guys will be there so I could talk to them about that. | 17:28 |
| TresEquis | "be at LP"? | 17:28 |
| sidnei | s/LP/EP? | 17:28 |
| Theuni1 | yes, sorry, thanks | 17:28 |
| Theuni1 | Time's almost over. | 17:29 |
| Theuni1 | Can I have a show of hands about the last suggestion? | 17:29 |
| regebro | +1 | 17:29 |
| kobold | +1 | 17:29 |
| astoon | +1 | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure what the suggestion was, but +1 anyway | 17:29 |
| Theuni1 | +1 | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | I'm sure it was a good suggestion ;) | 17:29 |
| agroszer | +1 | 17:29 |
| sidnei | what is the suggestion again? using 'ztk' as the project where bugs get filed? | 17:30 |
| Theuni1 | mgedmin: the suggestion was: one single project for now to get started and to a defined point and later figure out how to use individual projects. | 17:30 |
| fdrake | +1 if we want to stick with LP | 17:30 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei: yes | 17:30 |
| Theuni1 | fdrake: i'm avoiding tooling discussions for now ;) | 17:30 |
| regebro | Also +1 for everyone going to europython. :) | 17:30 |
| baijum | +1 | 17:30 |
| fdrake | :-) | 17:30 |
| Theuni1 | regebro: hahaha yeah | 17:30 |
| sidnei | im definitely -1 on that, but oh well. | 17:30 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei: hmm. can i get a comment on why? | 17:30 |
| bigkevmcd | sidnei: yeah, why? | 17:31 |
| *** ggozad has quit IRC | 17:31 | |
| sidnei | Theuni1, if im looking for bugs in zope.security, i will go to the zope.security project to look for bugs, not to ztk. | 17:31 |
| bigkevmcd | sidnei: if you come, you can come and crash here for a couple of days if you like :-) | 17:31 |
| agroszer | Theuni1, maybe you should stick a list of the packages covered by ztk into LP | 17:31 |
| agroszer | into the bugtracker just for sure | 17:31 |
| *** RUNYAGAs has quit IRC | 17:31 | |
| Theuni1 | sidnei: right. that's the reason for why in the long run and in a perfect environment i'd be happy to go that route. and that's also why the suggestion includes a notion of "for now" | 17:32 |
| Theuni1 | agroszer: good idea | 17:32 |
| sidnei | if the suggestion of putting the bugs on ztk is only to get an unified overview of all the bugs, the same can be achieved by creating a project group with all the underlying projects | 17:32 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei: right. i tried that last year with some tools for managing those, but LP got really painful about managing that list of projects and keeping it in sync with other stuff. | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | sidnei, you could go to bugs.launchpad.net/ztk, search for zope.security, and add bug tasks belonging to the zope.security LP project | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | say, monthly | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | hm | 17:33 |
| Theuni1 | mgedmin: heck, i could write a script to do that. *could*. ;) | 17:33 |
| sidnei | so | 17:33 |
| Theuni1 | anyway | 17:33 |
| regebro | https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope.security/ : "zope.security does not use Launchpad for bug tracking." :-D | 17:33 |
| Theuni1 | time's up | 17:34 |
| sidnei | i'd like to propose that instead of using tags to mark that say zope.security is affected, that we do use 'also affects' | 17:34 |
| Theuni1 | regebro: yeah, i think that's a residual from my half-baked effort last year | 17:34 |
| agroszer | Theuni1, and maybe remove those separate LP projects that are covered by ztk | 17:34 |
| sidnei | then im fine with initially filling under ztk and then gardening into the individual projects | 17:34 |
| Theuni1 | sidnei: i'd be happy with that. but just for clarification: that won't happen initially | 17:34 |
| * Theuni1 declares the official part over | 17:35 | |
| sidnei | okay | 17:35 |
| Theuni1 | everybody keep discussing if you want to :) | 17:35 |
| agroszer | I think having bug tracking under ZTK and a separate package will be distracting | 17:35 |
| Theuni1 | agroszer: the point is that LP bug tracker can keep track of bugs WRT releases/versions | 17:35 |
| agroszer | at the same time | 17:35 |
| *** tisto has joined #zope | 17:35 | |
| Theuni1 | and LP is also made to handle distributions of packages versus individual actual packages | 17:36 |
| * do3cc grabs a beer | 17:36 | |
| Theuni1 | however, that involves quite some bureaucracy which i'd like to keep down | 17:36 |
| Theuni1 | do3cc: how's your shoulder? | 17:36 |
| agroszer | Theuni1, what I try to avoid is if a newby comes and looks where to file the bug, he will know | 17:36 |
| do3cc | most movements are possible, some are as bad before, will see a doctor on wednesday | 17:37 |
| Theuni1 | agroszer: right | 17:37 |
| do3cc | whats worse, my trip to brazil might get cancelled due to strikes more time for buildbot I guess ;-) | 17:37 |
| agroszer | Theuni1, I guess he will take the first which comes up by search | 17:37 |
| baijum | agroszer: mention the ztk tracker in PyPI page and other places for individual packages? | 17:38 |
| agroszer | baijum, I think until you can enter the bug at two places there will be people who will use the wrong one | 17:39 |
| * mgedmin wonders about the state of the buildbot screenscraper script | 17:39 | |
| *** Theuni1 has left #zope | 17:40 | |
| do3cc | mgedmin: Theuni convinced me to drop the idea | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | eh? | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | what's the alternative? | 17:40 |
| do3cc | I am playing with the idea, to ask for the mails to be sent to a server of mine. That parses the mail and generates mails the other parser understands | 17:41 |
| do3cc | if I remember correctly, there is not much customization in the subject of buildbot mails possible | 17:41 |
| do3cc | else, I'll try to get hold of the script that parses mails currently | 17:41 |
| do3cc | but with my long holiday trip short ahead I did not have time to find the script or its maker | 17:42 |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 17:42 | |
| *** Theuni1 has joined #zope | 17:43 | |
| *** astoon has left #zope | 17:45 | |
| *** tisto has quit IRC | 17:46 | |
| *** phimic has quit IRC | 17:49 | |
| *** tiwula has joined #zope | 17:52 | |
| *** pthulin has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** Theuni1 has quit IRC | 17:59 | |
| *** r0ver has joined #zope | 18:01 | |
| *** arnarl has quit IRC | 18:06 | |
| *** mcdonc has quit IRC | 18:07 | |
| *** mcdonc has joined #zope | 18:09 | |
| *** smita1 has joined #zope | 18:09 | |
| *** mcdonc has quit IRC | 18:11 | |
| *** mcdonc has joined #zope | 18:12 | |
| *** mr_jolly has quit IRC | 18:19 | |
| *** mr_jolly has joined #zope | 18:20 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC | 18:20 | |
| *** hever has quit IRC | 18:22 | |
| *** rwat has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| *** rwat has joined #zope | 18:28 | |
| *** neo|4D has quit IRC | 18:30 | |
| *** dayne has quit IRC | 18:30 | |
| *** runyaga has joined #zope | 18:34 | |
| *** davisagli has joined #zope | 18:39 | |
| *** regebro has quit IRC | 18:41 | |
| *** MJ has quit IRC | 18:45 | |
| *** hazmat has joined #zope | 18:46 | |
| *** smita1 has quit IRC | 18:50 | |
| *** huajie has quit IRC | 18:50 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has quit IRC | 18:50 | |
| *** fredvd is now known as fredvd|sport | 18:53 | |
| *** thetetet has quit IRC | 18:53 | |
| * sm reads.. looks like a productive meeting | 18:54 | |
| *** RaFromBRC has joined #zope | 18:54 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has joined #zope | 19:01 | |
| *** daMaestro has joined #zope | 19:07 | |
| *** JaRoel|4D has quit IRC | 19:08 | |
| *** hever has joined #zope | 19:16 | |
| *** baijum has quit IRC | 19:18 | |
| *** factor_ has joined #zope | 19:18 | |
| *** factor has quit IRC | 19:19 | |
| *** factor has joined #zope | 19:19 | |
| *** factor_ has quit IRC | 19:19 | |
| *** aaronv has quit IRC | 19:21 | |
| *** RaFromBRC has quit IRC | 19:25 | |
| *** rwat has quit IRC | 19:29 | |
| *** factor has quit IRC | 19:30 | |
| *** zagy has quit IRC | 19:30 | |
| *** factor has joined #zope | 19:32 | |
| *** bowe1 has left #zope | 19:46 | |
| *** TomBlockley has quit IRC | 19:50 | |
| *** sunew has quit IRC | 19:51 | |
| *** hever has quit IRC | 19:55 | |
| *** aaronv has joined #zope | 20:02 | |
| *** Theuni1 has joined #zope | 20:05 | |
| *** bowe1 has joined #zope | 20:08 | |
| *** mcdonc has quit IRC | 20:08 | |
| *** kleist has quit IRC | 20:09 | |
| *** mcdonc has joined #zope | 20:10 | |
| *** agroszer has quit IRC | 20:14 | |
| *** vortec has quit IRC | 20:15 | |
| *** evilbungle has quit IRC | 20:20 | |
| *** morphex has quit IRC | 20:26 | |
| *** TresEquis has quit IRC | 20:35 | |
| *** zagy has joined #zope | 20:37 | |
| *** daMaestro has quit IRC | 20:40 | |
| *** daMaestro has joined #zope | 20:46 | |
| *** TresEquis has joined #zope | 20:54 | |
| *** tarek has quit IRC | 21:03 | |
| *** pyqwer has quit IRC | 21:03 | |
| *** tarek has joined #zope | 21:03 | |
| *** dunny has joined #zope | 21:10 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 21:11 | |
| *** dayne has joined #zope | 21:15 | |
| *** emrojo has quit IRC | 21:20 | |
| *** Arfrever has quit IRC | 21:23 | |
| *** menesis has joined #zope | 21:27 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 21:29 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 21:29 | |
| *** menesis has joined #zope | 21:29 | |
| *** eperez_ has quit IRC | 21:32 | |
| *** sunew has joined #zope | 21:33 | |
| *** sidnei has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 21:37 | |
| *** sidnei has joined #zope | 21:39 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 21:41 | |
| *** tim_rich has joined #zope | 21:52 | |
| tim_rich | can i use tal in css files? | 21:52 |
| *** kobold has left #zope | 21:54 | |
| *** mr_jolly has quit IRC | 21:54 | |
| fdrake | That's an underspecified question. | 21:54 |
| davisagli | tim_rich: yes, if you give it a .css.pt extension so that it gets processed as a page template | 21:54 |
| davisagli | er, well, depends how you're registering it | 21:54 |
| *** mr_jolly has joined #zope | 21:55 | |
| tim_rich | ok but i'm used to using tal to create xml style tags, i want to access request/resourcebase/++resource++images/image.jpg from css to set background-image. | 21:55 |
| tim_rich | maybe just use python? | 21:56 |
| tim_rich | confused :s | 21:56 |
| fdrake | I think we generally understand the goals of using TAL to generate CSS. | 21:56 |
| tim_rich | ok but how can i use tal without creating <> </> style tags? | 21:57 |
| fdrake | The questions we'd have to ask to be helpful start with: How are you processing the template? | 21:57 |
| fdrake | Ah! Use <tal:sometag replace="expression"/> to just get some text. | 21:58 |
| tim_rich | great thanks! off i go! | 21:59 |
| fdrake | You'll be back. :-) | 22:00 |
| * fdrake feels like a pusher.... | 22:00 | |
| *** dayne has quit IRC | 22:04 | |
| *** teix has quit IRC | 22:04 | |
| *** sashav has joined #zope | 22:05 | |
| *** digitalmortician has joined #zope | 22:05 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 22:11 | |
| tim_rich | im back | 22:12 |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 22:14 | |
| tim_rich | how can i use a TAL in css? I make style.css.pt file but it's not recognised as css then. | 22:14 |
| *** trollfot has left #zope | 22:15 | |
| tim_rich | aha register it as style.css! | 22:15 |
| fdrake | Yep... Won't charge you for that one. :-) | 22:17 |
| fdrake | You'll have to use TAL in XML-mode; namespaces will have to be declared and all that. | 22:18 |
| *** dayne has joined #zope | 22:23 | |
| runyaga | fdrake, you guys using solr? | 22:23 |
| runyaga | i think that is you on the solrpy mlist | 22:23 |
| fdrake | That is. | 22:24 |
| fdrake | Are you looking at using it? | 22:24 |
| runyaga | we have been using it for about 18 months | 22:25 |
| runyaga | on various projects | 22:25 |
| runyaga | solr 1.4 kicks butt | 22:25 |
| fdrake | Yeah? I've not had time to look at the details of the update. | 22:25 |
| runyaga | facets are really nice | 22:25 |
| fdrake | Hopefully soon I'll have time. | 22:25 |
| fdrake | Have those in 1.3. Are there new features? | 22:26 |
| fdrake | (For facets.) | 22:26 |
| runyaga | oh sorry | 22:27 |
| runyaga | it was the binary indexing in 1.4 integrated tika | 22:27 |
| fdrake | Ah! | 22:29 |
| fdrake | Don't think I need that. | 22:29 |
| runyaga | its nice for contextual hits in the text | 22:31 |
| runyaga | i.e. the term that is most relevant is in this context in the document | 22:31 |
| runyaga | everyone loves the google results | 22:31 |
| fdrake | Hmm. Maybe worth a little time to skin the release notes. :-) Time's in short supply, as always. | 22:32 |
| *** alecm has joined #zope | 22:34 | |
| *** pthulin has joined #zope | 22:40 | |
| *** allisterb has quit IRC | 22:41 | |
| *** allisterb has joined #zope | 22:43 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has joined #zope | 22:47 | |
| tim_rich | fdrake: i register css as a page (browser:page)? | 22:51 |
| *** jwhisnant has quit IRC | 22:51 | |
| fdrake | Normally it should be a resource. | 22:52 |
| fdrake | But it all depends on how it's used. | 22:52 |
| tim_rich | eeek | 22:52 |
| tim_rich | zope is hell | 22:52 |
| fdrake | browser:view would only apply if it makes sense that it's a view of some other object. | 22:53 |
| fdrake | There's a learning curve. :-) | 22:53 |
| *** blenderkid has joined #zope | 22:53 | |
| *** blenderkid has left #zope | 22:53 | |
| tim_rich | v slippy :S | 22:53 |
| *** tim_rich has quit IRC | 23:00 | |
| *** tarek has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| *** aaronv has quit IRC | 23:08 | |
| *** kevinkal has quit IRC | 23:11 | |
| *** fredvd|sport is now known as fredvd | 23:13 | |
| *** zagy has quit IRC | 23:16 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has quit IRC | 23:20 | |
| *** dayne has quit IRC | 23:33 | |
| *** r0ver has left #zope | 23:35 | |
| *** dayne has joined #zope | 23:37 | |
| *** sm has quit IRC | 23:44 | |
| *** sm has joined #zope | 23:44 | |
| *** sunew has quit IRC | 23:48 | |
| *** Kabz|4D has joined #zope | 23:49 | |
| *** neo|4D has joined #zope | 23:53 | |
| *** benji has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!