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| digilord | Can from zope.container.constraints.contains support multiple objects? Like contains('book', 'cd','song')? | 00:41 |
|---|---|---|
| digilord | The answer is yes it can. Thanks | 00:44 |
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| Charlie_X | We still on for the zope-dev meeting in just over two hours? | 15:56 |
| agroszer | Charlie_X, 1500 UTC | 16:01 |
| Charlie_X | Yep | 16:05 |
| Charlie_X | No sign of Theuni. I'll send an e-mail to the list. | 16:05 |
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| TresEquis | TheJester: are you around? | 17:49 |
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| TresEquis | Ready to rumble, anyone? | 17:58 |
| agroszer | just Theuni is missing | 17:59 |
| TresEquis | he's out sick, asked me to convene | 17:59 |
| agroszer | ok, so you're the man to crack the whip today ;-) | 18:00 |
| * Charlie_X is here | 18:00 | |
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| TresEquis | OK, let's start | 18:00 |
| TresEquis | regebro: you want to kick off with the Py3 stuff? | 18:00 |
| regebro | Awright, I forgot about the meeting. :) Sure. | 18:01 |
| TresEquis | Oh, I guess we can welcome Hanno as Z2 releasse manager, too | 18:01 |
| TresEquis | YAY, Hanno! | 18:01 |
| regebro | Yay! | 18:01 |
| TresEquis | He can't be here either today | 18:01 |
| * Charlie_X rolls out red carpet | 18:01 | |
| TresEquis | "Accepting the award in his place ...." | 18:01 |
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| TresEquis | "Tell him what he won, Jim!" | 18:02 |
| regebro | Well, so I got some python 3 branches for zope.interfaces, zope.event and zope.testing. | 18:02 |
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| regebro | zope.interface gets an API change. It's backwards compatible, but still. | 18:02 |
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| J1m | TresEquis, we've goy some Ginsu knives for him! | 18:03 |
| TresEquis | Is this the one you were proposing as zope.interface 4.0? | 18:03 |
| regebro | And there was the discussed API changes as well. | 18:03 |
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| regebro | TresEquis: Right. Especially if we do the other API changes as well. | 18:03 |
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| regebro | Unfortunately I saw that zope.formlib or something already has a 4.0 version, otherwise we could go with 4.0 for everything that it Python 3 compatible. | 18:04 |
| TresEquis | how far out are we from landing those changes? | 18:04 |
| regebro | We can do that anyway, but... | 18:04 |
| regebro | zope.testing needs more work. zope.event is done. | 18:04 |
| TresEquis | LOL | 18:04 |
| TresEquis | four lines of code ;) | 18:04 |
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| regebro | :) | 18:04 |
| J1m | I would only bump the major version if there are backward incompatible changes. | 18:04 |
| TresEquis | seven hundred lines of packaging | 18:05 |
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| regebro | It would be good if zope.interface got tested more to make sure it doesn't break anything. | 18:05 |
| TresEquis | J1m: I think there was one change proposed that might break BBB | 18:05 |
| TresEquis | regebro: its tests all pass, right? | 18:05 |
| J1m | k | 18:05 |
| regebro | TresEquis: Yup. | 18:06 |
| TresEquis | not the Py3 change, but something else (memory eludes me) | 18:06 |
| regebro | I'm going to try it with Plone 4 as well, that should be a reasonably heavy compatibility test. | 18:06 |
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| TresEquis | we should let the release managers know ahead of time, so they can pin in the ztk.cfg if needed | 18:07 |
| TresEquis | speaking of which, do we have a Grok victim^Wcandidate for the triumvirate? | 18:07 |
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| * Charlie_X sniggers | 18:07 | |
| regebro | I think the discussion on the api changes leaned heavily towards not breaking BBB anyway. | 18:08 |
| TresEquis | Christophe Colombe(sp?) volunteered to represent bluebream | 18:08 |
| TresEquis | OK | 18:08 |
| baijum | TresEquis: he is here: ccomb | 18:08 |
| TresEquis | ah, cool | 18:09 |
| TresEquis | thanks for volunteering, ccomb | 18:09 |
| ccomb | ah, meeting ok | 18:09 |
| regebro | But if the move to get those other changes in has died, then I guess I should just test zope.interface with Plone 4 and then merge it. | 18:09 |
| ccomb | hello | 18:09 |
| Charlie_X | +1 to that regebro | 18:09 |
| TresEquis | sounds good to me | 18:10 |
| TresEquis | getting zope.testing ported should be next priority, right? | 18:10 |
| baijum | regebro: so, what would be the major version number for that zope.interface release ? | 18:10 |
| regebro | TresEquis: Yes. And there I need to look at improving BBB compatibility before I merge, since the custom doctest is gone. | 18:10 |
| regebro | I had some ideas on how to make that work better. | 18:11 |
| TresEquis | baijum: I think regebro is proposing a "3.6.0" | 18:11 |
| regebro | baijum, TresEquis: yes. | 18:11 |
| regebro | Or a 3.6.0b1, in fact. ;) | 18:11 |
| baijum | TresEquis: regebro: +1 for that | 18:11 |
| TresEquis | how can we cope with the execption repr problem better in doctests? | 18:12 |
| TresEquis | better normalizers? | 18:12 |
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| regebro | TresEquis: I couldn't come up with anything good there. | 18:12 |
| TresEquis | J1m: do you have any sensibilities about that problem? | 18:12 |
| regebro | TresEquis: I think doctest even fails to recognize that an exception is expected if you use ... syntax, for example. | 18:13 |
| baijum | regebro: Did you used zope.testing.doctest or Python default (doctest) ? | 18:14 |
| J1m | TresEquis, I'd be in favor of adding an API similar to assertFails for use in doctests, although assertFails has its own lamosities. | 18:14 |
| regebro | baijum: python default. | 18:14 |
| TresEquis | 'assertRaises', you mean? | 18:14 |
| J1m | sorry, assertRaises. | 18:15 |
| TresEquis | ah, ok | 18:15 |
| TresEquis | '>>> from zope.testing.... import doctest_exception_assertion as assertRaises', or some such? | 18:15 |
| J1m | You often *do* want to make assertions about exception values, which assertRaises doesn't let you do. | 18:16 |
| TresEquis | maybe the doctest-specific version could return the exception value | 18:16 |
| J1m | I dunno -- some such -- sure | 18:16 |
| TresEquis | regebro: any more updates on Py3-related stuff? | 18:16 |
| Charlie_X | Is it possible to enforce Python 3 style exception representation? Or wouldn't that help? | 18:16 |
| TresEquis | Charlie_X: we still have to keep tests passing under 2.6, too | 18:17 |
| regebro | We could also monkey-patch in the changes I proposed for doctest to improve this stuff. :) | 18:17 |
| regebro | TresEquis: Nope. | 18:17 |
| J1m | Yeah, I like the idea of returning the exception value. | 18:17 |
| J1m | That could be used in unittest tests as well. | 18:17 |
| TresEquis | sure | 18:17 |
| TresEquis | OK, lets move to buildbots, unless we have an objection? | 18:17 |
| J1m | That is really a missfeature of assertRaises that ought to be fixed. | 18:18 |
| J1m | wonder if unittest2 addresses it. | 18:18 |
| TresEquis | I don't know | 18:18 |
| * TresEquis confesses he didn't do homework, doesn't have any status on buildbots | 18:18 | |
| regebro | J1m: I haven't seen it mentioned. | 18:18 |
| TresEquis | Anybody have an update on buildbot / hudson stuff? | 18:18 |
| regebro | But it's not too late, I think. | 18:19 |
| baijum | Any buildbot sending updates to zope-tests list ? http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/buildbots.html#informing-the-zope-developer-community-about-build-results | 18:20 |
| baijum | (Of course Zope 2 do) | 18:20 |
| TresEquis | I still haven't got any response from the Microsoft guy on donating VS licenses for building / testing py2.4 / py2.5 eggs | 18:20 |
| TresEquis | baijum: only the repository conformance bot | 18:21 |
| agroszer | I have the feeling that we miss win64 bots | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: likely so | 18:21 |
| baijum | yeah. there is none in the list | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | Foundation might help fund EC-based build hosts for Windows | 18:21 |
| TresEquis | I'm stuck waiting for sidnei on the mechanics, though ;) | 18:22 |
| baijum | BTW, http://www.rackspacecloud.com/ also provides Windows | 18:22 |
| TresEquis | thanks for the link | 18:23 |
| agroszer | thehealthagency seems to well equipped, but Jan does not answer mails recently | 18:23 |
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| Charlie_X | One might hope that MS would provide some Azure resources. | 18:23 |
| sidnei | oh hey | 18:24 |
| sidnei | i got an ec2 image half working, for py2.6 builds | 18:24 |
| TresEquis | right, using the VSE tools? | 18:24 |
| sidnei | yup | 18:24 |
| sidnei | just missing a script i had for setting up the environment for x64 builds | 18:24 |
| sidnei | it was on the laptop that was stolen :( | 18:25 |
| TresEquis | maybe we should just go forward with py26-only binaries for now | 18:25 |
| TresEquis | Ouch! | 18:25 |
| sidnei | it's not to hard to figure out, just had to dig inside distutils for the right environment variables | 18:25 |
| sidnei | i should be able to look at it again, now that i got the plone installer out of my todo | 18:26 |
| TresEquis | Great | 18:26 |
| TresEquis | Any follow up on launchpad? | 18:26 |
| Charlie_X | That's me, I think. | 18:26 |
| TresEquis | Charlie_X: you were going to write a nag^Wreminder script? | 18:26 |
| TresEquis | zope.fishwife? | 18:26 |
| regebro | ok, gotta go help my wife with the baby. Ciao! | 18:26 |
| TresEquis | cya, regebro | 18:26 |
| Charlie_X | Yes - I got a script running this morning once I figured out how to use the API | 18:27 |
| TresEquis | great | 18:27 |
| Charlie_X | I sent it to Theuni for review but he's not well. Anyone else want it? | 18:27 |
| TresEquis | yes, please | 18:27 |
| TresEquis | post to zope-dev, maybe | 18:27 |
| baijum | Charlie_X: I would like to have a look | 18:27 |
| baijum | that's better | 18:28 |
| Charlie_X | It doesn't actually send an e-mail but it exposes the search functionality. Is it okay to post a .zip (package) to the list? It's a whopping great 8Kb! | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | sure | 18:29 |
| TresEquis | before time expires, anybody have an update on bug days? | 18:29 |
| agroszer | there should be one for BB? | 18:29 |
| agroszer | baijum, ? | 18:30 |
| baijum | agroszer: We are planning for this Saturday | 18:30 |
| TresEquis | cool | 18:30 |
| agroszer | maybe it would be easy to take the same day for ZTK | 18:30 |
| baijum | agroszer: +1 | 18:30 |
| Charlie_X | Mail sent | 18:30 |
| agroszer | tho this saturday is rather close | 18:30 |
| TresEquis | OK, official 30 minutes is up | 18:31 |
| TresEquis | no need to quit chatting, though | 18:31 |
| TresEquis | thanks, everybody! | 18:32 |
| agroszer | do we want do some organizing for the bugday, like "who's coming" for sprints? | 18:32 |
| baijum | TresEquis: thanks for organizing the meeting ! | 18:32 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: post an announcement to zope-dev, for sure | 18:32 |
| Charlie_X | Sounds like a good idea. A list of people and a list of bugs that may be tackled, and, in the case of people like me, a list of people prepared to mentor. | 18:33 |
| agroszer | open up a coactivate project? | 18:33 |
| Charlie_X | Anything with a low barrier to entry. | 18:34 |
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| baijum | Charlie_X: coactivate provides a wiki with some other stuff | 18:34 |
| regebro | About sprints: | 18:34 |
| agroszer | Then start with the [ann] to zope-dev and others? | 18:35 |
| TresEquis | regebro: hmm? | 18:35 |
| regebro | Now with the Snow Sprint not doing Zope anymore, would there be interest in doing something similar? | 18:35 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: Charlie_X: self-organizing sounds good to me | 18:35 |
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| TresEquis | regebro: Agendaless is thinking of doing a beach sprint this summer | 18:35 |
| regebro | I've figured out we could probably do five days in Zakopane, Poland for 300 euros all inclusive. Probably. | 18:35 |
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| regebro | TresEquis: Beach sprint, eh... nice. Can't do it this summer though. | 18:36 |
| agroszer | regebro, gocept ought to do one around september | 18:36 |
| regebro | agroszer: Yeah, but that's not gonna be any skiing. :) | 18:36 |
| TresEquis | agroszer, regebro: they are definitely doing one in week between their party and dzug Tag | 18:37 |
| agroszer | regebro, :-D | 18:37 |
| TresEquis | "Ski Halle!" | 18:37 |
| * TresEquis had a poster, "Ski Terre Haute!" at one point | 18:37 | |
| TresEquis | Indiana is famous for its slopes | 18:37 |
| r0ver | During the first week of november we're going to organize 2nd Plone Symposium South America in november in Argentina and we would love to have a Zope sprint here. | 18:37 |
| regebro | I'll probably be too busy to organize a skisprint this winter ayway. I'll postpone the ideas to 2012. :) | 18:38 |
| r0ver | travelling is not cheap, but accomodation and food it is | 18:38 |
| TresEquis | r0ver: aieee, I'd love to come, but I'm committed to gocept's party and summit / sprint in September | 18:39 |
| regebro | TresEquis: Is the summity thingy decided? | 18:39 |
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| TresEquis | yes, I believe so | 18:39 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, where would that be? | 18:40 |
| regebro | cool | 18:40 |
| r0ver | TresEquis: well... if they don't you've a plan b :) | 18:40 |
| TresEquis | sidnei: summit is in Halle | 18:40 |
| TresEquis | adjacent to Gocept's 10th anniversary party | 18:40 |
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| TresEquis | week before DZUG Tag in Dresden | 18:41 |
| TresEquis | http://foundation.zope.org/minutes/zfbod-minutes-20100324 | 18:41 |
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| agroszer | that sounds official | 18:42 |
| TresEquis | says, "The summit will take place in Halle/Saale in Germany at gocept's | 18:42 |
| TresEquis | office on September 13, 2010." | 18:42 |
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| Charlie_X | TresEquis: more info on the beach spring, pls | 18:43 |
| sidnei | uhm, i think that might be around the same time as pycon brasil | 18:43 |
| TresEquis | ouch | 18:43 |
| r0ver | an innoncent question: do the Zope Foundation has resources to fund travelling or sprint as Plone is doing (sorry the comparison) | 18:43 |
| regebro | OK, I didn't get that decisive feeling from the meeting, maybe I just wasn't paying attention. :) | 18:43 |
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| TresEquis | regebro: decisive on what? | 18:43 |
| r0ver | i'm asking to bring people to south america, for example. | 18:44 |
| regebro | TresEquis: on the summit. | 18:44 |
| TresEquis | I think I heard a +1 to merge the Py3 branch | 18:44 |
| TresEquis | ah | 18:44 |
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| Charlie_X | re. bug days - we should look at finding a 24 hour period this month. | 18:45 |
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| TresEquis | Charlie_X: agroszer and baijum were proposing this Saturday | 18:45 |
| Charlie_X | That's very short notice. | 18:46 |
| agroszer | baijum, you want to shift the bugday? | 18:46 |
| baijum | agroszer: Charlie_X: I am with moving to another date | 18:46 |
| baijum | I am fine | 18:47 |
| Charlie_X | But anything to get things started... | 18:47 |
| sidnei | ok, pycon brasil will be october 21st | 18:47 |
| Charlie_X | baijum: agroszer 24th? | 18:47 |
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| agroszer | I'm fine with it, actually I proposed to have it the same day as for BB, not an exact day | 18:48 |
| r0ver | sidnei: pycon brasil is going to be very close to Plone Conf | 18:49 |
| agroszer | 24th should be plenty of time | 18:49 |
| Charlie_X | Okay. I suggested that even though I'm probably the least qualified to help out! ;-) Get a page up and an announcement out. | 18:49 |
| * Charlie_X checks his nappy and calls for his mum | 18:50 | |
| regebro | There are so many conferences... | 18:50 |
| Charlie_X | regebro: true, but that's healthy. | 18:50 |
| regebro | Of course. Now if I could just figure out a way to get payed for going to them... :) | 18:51 |
| agroszer | baijum, 24th? | 18:51 |
| baijum | agroszer: 24th is fine, but I will joining bit late as I have some work in morning (IST timezone) | 18:52 |
| agroszer | ok | 18:52 |
| Charlie_X | regebro: hopefully we'll start getting more professional Python speakers. Did you see the link Laura sent after last year's Europython. | 18:53 |
| regebro | Charlie_X: nope | 18:53 |
| agroszer | TresEquis, please add that to the summary, and a note to the next meeting's agenda to kick (us) to get up some page | 18:53 |
| Charlie_X | baijum: I thought we agreed on a rolling day? | 18:53 |
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| agroszer | Charlie_X, yup a whole-day happening | 18:54 |
| Charlie_X | regebro: forwarded | 18:54 |
| baijum | Charlie_X: but I cann't miss the function | 18:54 |
| regebro | thanks | 18:55 |
| TresEquis | agroszer: will do | 18:55 |
| Charlie_X | TresEquis: beach sprint not to collide with Europython, please | 18:55 |
| baijum | agroszer: Charlie_X: With this I don't want post-pone BB 1.0 release unless there is any critical issue | 18:55 |
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| agroszer | baijum, then the result could be BB 1.01 ? | 18:56 |
| Charlie_X | baijum: I don't think bug days should be tied to releases. Just one day a month or so where we coordinate some work. | 18:56 |
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| baijum | agroszer: sure, the final is on May 31st | 18:57 |
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| agroszer | TresEquis, where's that beach sprint planned? | 18:59 |
| agroszer | errrr, could we do that sort of SprintSchedule wiki page again? | 19:00 |
| baijum | agroszer: this was great http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/SprintSchedule | 19:01 |
| agroszer | I mean that | 19:01 |
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| planetzopebot | Big Data for the Cloud and the Crowd (Planet RDF) http://tw.rpi.edu/weblog/2010/04/01/big-data-for-the-cloud-and-the-crowd/ | 19:04 |
| planetzopebot | Summer of Code positions available (Plone News) http://plone.org/events/summer-of-code/2010/summer-of-code-positions-available | 19:04 |
| planetzopebot | Review: Grok 1.0 Web Development (Random notes from mg) http://mg.pov.lt/blog/grok-book-review | 19:04 |
| planetzopebot | ValueError: The permission XYZ is invalid (ch-athens) http://betabug.ch/blogs/ch-athens/1067 | 19:04 |
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| TresEquis | agroszer: Outer banks, North Carolina, mid-August | 19:07 |
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| agroszer | TresEquis, please add to the next agenda to bring up again a SprintSchedule page | 19:08 |
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| kosh | hi all | 19:25 |
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| TresEquis | kosh: howdy | 19:32 |
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| kosh | so how are things going? | 19:33 |
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| planetzopebot | Zope 2 - Releases (..: hannosch :..) http://blog.hannosch.eu/2010/04/zope-2-releases.html | 21:04 |
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| sm | yay! | 21:18 |
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| * Charlie_X checks his bin for rotten fruit and vegetables.... | 21:30 | |
| Charlie_X | hannosch: congratulations! | 21:30 |
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| TresEquis | sidnei: Are you using bzr against the svn.zope.org repository? | 21:50 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, i do it, eventually | 21:51 |
| TresEquis | it works almost as I would expect, except that svn:externals don't get mapped | 21:51 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, except when making egg releases, because of include_package_data in setuptools | 21:51 |
| TresEquis | there is a plugin for that | 21:51 |
| sidnei | yeah | 21:51 |
| sidnei | there's no support for svn:externals yet. it's been in the roadmap for a while. | 21:52 |
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| TresEquis | svn:externals is supposed to be blocked on another blueprint in bzr ('nested-branches', I think) | 21:55 |
| TresEquis | but that blueprint is languishing (2 years since last commit to its branch) | 21:55 |
| TresEquis | I am trying to work only with bzr this week against the Zope repo, just to see how far I can make it go | 21:56 |
| sidnei | TresEquis, there are some alternatives to nested-branches, involving maintaining a separate externals config. i guess one could create a script to read svn:externals and spit out the right config. | 21:57 |
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