IRC log of #zope for Tuesday, 2010-05-11

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CIA-46gary * r112239 zc.buildout/bootstrap/ ( move the new bootstrap aside to let virtualenv users that have packages linked to bootstrap in trunk stay happy.00:48
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shen-longis there a way for me to tell what a container can contain?02:19
shen-longI've set the constraint using zope.container.constraints.contains('myinterfaces',)02:19
shen-longand picking the object apart in pdb right now, I can't find a way to poop out the info of 'what' it can contain02:19
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shen-longI know that contains builds up __setitem__02:20
shen-longbut where's the cancontain method or something?02:20
shen-longyeah, ditto here02:28
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CIA-46andreasjung * r112240 zope.repositorypolicy/CHANGES.txt: required by setup.py10:37
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Charlie_XTheJester: seen Theuni113:10
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woscCharlie_X: Theuni is /really/ busy right now13:10
Charlie_XThen I guess I'm chairing today's meeting again.13:11
Charlie_XThanks for the info,13:11
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CIA-46adamg * r112241 (buildout.cfg CHANGES.txt src/keas/build/
CIA-46- Fix: Do NOT ``register`` with ``python``14:31
CIA-46- Fix: bump setuptools and zc.buildout versions14:31
CIA-46- Fix: 0.1.7 tar.gz was broken14:31
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CIA-46adamg * r112242 (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 0.1.814:49
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CIA-46adamg * r112243 / Tagging 0.1.815:08
CIA-46adamg * r112244 (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 0.1.915:08
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ignashow do I use utf-8 in my page templates? I am using PageTemplateFile in my product, but if the template contains utf-8 characters I get encoding errors...16:02
betabugignas: there is a setting you have to do in the ZMI, just a second, I'll fetch you a link16:02
betabugignas: "Zope: Using UTF-8 in the Management Interface (ZMI)"16:02
ignasi can see utf-8 in zmi just fine16:03
ignasi am talking about templates in my file system16:03
ignasi can't even "render" it16:03
ignasnot just "return it" for zope to display16:03
betabugah, ok16:04
betabughmm, not doing that here, but IIRC I got it working some time16:04
ignasthe call PageTemplateFile('templates/', globals()).__of__(self)()16:04
ignasand I have the utf-8 in ZMI things fixed in my instance16:05
betabugwhich zope version is that?16:05
Charlie_Xignas you can use a "metadata" file for that purpose16:05
ignas"metadata" file?16:06
Charlie_XYes, at least that's possible for templates that are transient ZODB objects. But it looks like you might be using a browser view.16:06
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Charlie_XYou should check the settings of default_publisher_encoding in etc/zope.conf16:07
Charlie_XThis defaults to Latin-1 in <= 2.1116:07
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ignasCharlie_X, it is set to utf-816:09
ignasthe code I posted is a method of my Product16:10
ignasand I still did not find the documentation for the metadata file for a Zope2 Product16:10
Charlie_XSorry, my mistake. The CMF has an FSPageTemplate Product which allows use to write PageTemplates in the file system.16:12
ignasnah, it's not what I am doing, I am just migrating some TTW code into a product, so trying to move one template first16:15
ignasbut it has utf-8 characters in it16:15
ignasand is refusing to render16:15
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betabugignas: I'll run a little test here, just a minute16:16
Charlie_XI understand now...16:16
Charlie_XIt should still be possible to set an encoding.16:16
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ignasyes, but where and how :)16:17
ignasFYI i am using Products.PageTemplates.PageTemplateFile.PageTemplateFile16:17
Charlie_XZopePageTemplate uses an explicit "output_encoding"16:18
ignasit's not about output i think, I mean - i am not event getting to the "output" phase16:19
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betabugignas: works here, Zope 2.10 though16:19
Charlie_XI know but ZopePageTemplate uses the encoding to coerce the template to unicode.16:20
betabugI've added some greek text to a page template on the file system in one of our products16:20
betabugI access the code that returns the ZPT in question (a python product method)16:20
Charlie_XThe underlying implementation of PageTemplateFile should identify the encoding from the BOM at the start of the file.16:21
betabugthat instances default-zpublisher-encoding in zope.conf is not set to anything16:21
Charlie_Xbetabug: in which case it will default to latin-15 on Zope 2.10.16:22
* Charlie_X remembers he has started to move the Psycopy forms to PageTemplates...16:22
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ignasCharlie_X, all encodings are set to utf-8 in my config file...16:23
Charlie_XI'm just trying with my own local product.16:24
betabugignas: what editor do you edit the zpt on the file system with? are you sure it's set to utf-8?16:25
ignasbetabug, emacs, yes, i am sure16:25
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Charlie_XI get the same error here.16:25
ignasbetabug, looked at the error message, the character it fails on is the first utf-8 "byte" of the character16:25
ignasbetabug, can you paste your method that works somewhere?16:25
betabugand you set UTF-8 as the http encoding header in your ZPT or your python method that returns the ZPT?16:26
Charlie_XIt's zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate.pt_render that bards16:26
ignaslisppaste6, url16:26
betabughmmm, the particular method I was using is rather long and complicated :-)16:26
lisppaste6To use the lisppaste bot, visit and enter your paste.16:26
lisppaste6ignas pasted "The code and the traceback" at
Charlie_Xyep, that's the same error I get.16:28
Charlie_XI think the simple answer is that you cannot use non-ASCII for such templates. Just use the HTML entities.16:32
betabugI doubt that16:32
Charlie_XYou can see it in the class hierarchy16:32
betabugif that had broken from 2.10 to 2.11, we'd have heard more complaints16:32
Charlie_XWhereas ZopePageTemplate uses an explicit encoding to ensure the template is unicode, PageTemplateFile passes everything straight to zope.pagetemplate.pagetemplate.16:33
Charlie_XI get the same error on Zope 2.1216:33
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lisppaste6Charlie_X annotated #99080 "Workaround" at
Charlie_Xignas - the easiest solution if you want to use non-ASCII is to decode it manually and pass a unicode string to ZopePageTemplate.16:55
Charlie_XIt's not pretty but it does work.16:56
Charlie_XThe proper alternative is probably to use a dedicated browser view16:56
ignaswell, it is the final destination16:57
ignasbut I need an intermediate stepping stone16:57
ignasI want to reuse the original template unchanged16:57
ignasi am warry16:58
ignasthat ZopePageTemplate16:58
ignaswill not set up the context right16:58
ignasPageTemplateFile sets up the context differently16:58
Charlie_Xpt_getContext is the same for both.17:00
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Charlie_XOr you could subclass PageTemplateFile to do the same thing but that looks more complicated.17:05
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ignasCharlie_X, thought about that, but subclassing ZopePageTemplate is probably easier ;) in case I get tired of the inline solution17:06
ignasaw, now realized the problem17:07
ignastemplate refresh won17:07
ignaswon't work17:07
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ignasif I use ZopePageTemplate....17:07
betabugjust replace the text in question with variables and pipe in the content through code17:07
betabuge.g. a translation framework17:07
ignasnot translation17:08
ignasrefresh, as in - I change file system17:08
ignashmm, though Zope product refresh might catch this17:08
Charlie_XNot sure what you mean about template refresh with ZopePageTemplate.17:08
betabugzope product refresh hasn't been working right since about 2.917:08
betabugnobody uses it any more17:09
ignasbetabug, works fine for me, most of the time17:09
ignasbetabug, way better than a restart17:09
ignas90% of the time17:09
Charlie_XYou mean after you make changes to the template in the file system?17:09
ignasnah, everything is fine17:09
ignasi am reading the tempalte on every request17:09
ignasso it will work17:09
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betabugjust changing a zpt on the file system should work fine, as long as the instance runs in debug mode (e.g. zopectl fg)17:09
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ignasok, got it working, now what is the easiest way to "redirect" as in - render the content of my view instead of the original one?17:12
ignasi have a TTW directory Foo/ with a view in it list so it's Foo/list17:12
ignasi have added a product Foo/Foo_product that has Foo/Foo_product/list17:12
ignasi want to deprecate the Foo/list without changing all the places that might be referring to it17:13
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Charlie_XYou can use restrictedTraverse in the "list" script.17:14
Charlie_XOr redirect, if you prefer.17:14
ignaslist is a zpt17:14
ignasso you mean - I can replace it with a python script and do restrictedTraverse in it?17:14
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Charlie_XIf you are deprecating it, yes.17:15
Charlie_XYou could add a condition to render the template (which would need renaming) if necessary17:16
Charlie_XWriting a dedicated browser view is the solution.17:17
ignassorry, I am not sure what you are suggesting17:17
ignasand what does a BrowserView have to do with it?17:17
ignasif Foo/ was not a simple folder but some object, or would implement an interface, I could probably make "list" a view for it17:18
ignasand hope that Zope2 traversal will work identically17:18
Charlie_XAll Zope objects implement at least one interface17:19
ignasyes, and like 10 folders in my system have a "list"17:19
ignasso if i will add a list view for non-specific interface, i will break the system17:20
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Charlie_XI only mention a browser view as that would solve your encoding problem.17:20
ignasnah, encoding is solved17:20
ignasI mean - it works now :)17:20
ignasI am thinking of a way to move from TTW views to views on a product17:20
ignaswithout breaking any code17:21
Charlie_XI'm not sure I understand your use case. Do you have different "list"s in different folders?17:21
Charlie_XIf not I can't see the product being any help.17:21
ignasAccounts/list Accounts/addAccount Clients/list Clients/addClient17:21
ignasI am working on Clients17:21
ignasso I add Clients/Clients_product17:22
ignasmake Clients/clients_product/list identical to Clients/list17:22
ignasnow I want to remove Clients/list somehow and use the one from the product17:22
ignaswithout breaking *anything*17:22
ignasproblem is - i can't be sure how many ways are used to access the list (which is a zpt method at the moment)17:23
ignassomeone might be doing system.Clients.list in some code17:23
Charlie_XYou could do exactly the same with a browser view and a PythonScript. You could add additional checks in the various views.17:23
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ignasproblem is, the "other" code, not code in Clients is "read-only" for all practical purposes17:25
Charlie_XNow I am confused. I really don't think you need a Product for this.17:27
ignasI want to have the code in the file system17:27
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ignasbecause I like having a good editor, a good VCS, and a nice way to deploy the application17:27
ignas100K lines of TTW code is not my idea of a maintainable system17:28
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ignasI know that in Zope3 attribute access and view access are very different17:28
ignasquestion is - in Zope217:28
Charlie_XAgreed. But why not go straight to a browser view?17:28
ignashow does that help me?17:29
ignasi create a BrowserView and set *what* as it's conext in ZCML?17:29
Charlie_XYou replace all your individual "list" templates with PythonScripts that return the "correct" view - "client_list", "account_list", etc.17:29
ignasyou are suggesting a shared namespace?17:29
ignasand all views (hundereds of them)17:30
ignasin one shared namespace?17:30
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Charlie_XA shared namespace is probably inevitable.17:30
ignaswell, it is, having a Clients product and Accounts product as 2 separate entities for example17:30
Charlie_XYou could use marker interfaces to tag the individual folders.17:30
ignasreplacing Folder with some object that implements interface like IClient17:31
ignasbut it's not about Views17:31
ignasmy problem is17:31
ignashow do I make list "python script" act17:31
ignasthe same way as list "zpt"17:31
ignasbecause if someone did list.macros17:31
ignasin some code17:31
ignasmy python script will not really have that method17:31
Charlie_Xhm, you're screwed in that case. But Products won't help in that case either.17:33
ignasbut I don't have a Products vs Views problem17:33
ignasi have "how do I refactor without breaking *any* API" problem17:33
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ignas<- 4 years of Zope3 here, so I know what a browser view is ;)17:34
Charlie_XYou could try adding a macros definition to the script.17:34
ignaswhat I mean17:34
ignasI don't know what is being done to the lis17:34
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ignasand I have no way of finding out :/17:34
ignasI though that maybe there was some way of saying "hey, folder, can you treat this Product/class as your Base class, k thx"17:34
Charlie_XI agree, it's an ugly mess.17:35
ignasif it was a small Folder with 5-6 methods/views i'd just move it in one go17:36
ignasreplace Clients with a product, and taDa, everything works, methods return stuff, templates return html17:36
ignasbut it's like 140 items in that Folder, and I don't like editing 50 kb of ZPT through the web ;)17:37
Charlie_XIf macro access is required then redirection is out. It still might be possible to provide access to the macros through a view class but it would be quite a hack.17:37
ignasi don't know if macro access is required17:37
Charlie_XFSPageTemplate would help there.17:37
ignasbut I don't have a way to test whether I broke *anything*...17:37
ignasthe system is too big17:37
ignasso i will probably replace the zpt with a python method17:38
ignasand hope the only interaction with that teplate is "render"17:38
ignasthen do it with the next and *hope*, and .... and *hope*17:38
ignasbut I don't like the *hope* part ;)17:38
Charlie_XAs I said you could at least use FSTemplate to get everything into the file system.17:40
ignas50% of the stuff is python methods17:41
ignaswell - python scripts that return dicts and are a security hole most of the time really17:41
ignashow do I tell Zope2 that "hey, don't let anyone call this python script directly, only let it be invoked from another method or template"17:42
Charlie_XFSPythonScript for them17:43
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Charlie_XI'm a bit hazy on context/container but I think you could check the container.17:45
Charlie_XBut in truth there is no easy solution to that particular problem.17:45
ignasI am not sure I like the idea of using FSPythonScript/template because the result is not something I'd implement, as in - if I was developing this application from scratch, it would be a proper Zope2 product, with ZCA views for views, etc. so I'd like to move in that direction, not towards a solution that will still be tied into ZODB very tightly17:46
ignaswith the product way, my idea is - as soon as all methods get moved into product, I cut the folder, replace it with the product, and the only thing in ZODB in the end is "TheProduct"17:47
ignasand mysql connection probably17:47
Charlie_Xoh, so you want a Product instance to replace each folder?17:48
Charlie_XI only suggested the FS products as a stop gap.17:49
baijumHi Charlie_X17:50
Charlie_Xhiya matey17:51
ignasyeah, I want to replace each folder or at least the most complicated folders with a Product, and then probably replace all the products with one product (integrating multiple FS products into a single product is doable)17:51
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Charlie_XWell, good luck with it!17:53
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ignasthanks, hope the money will last :D17:54
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* Charlie_X clears throat18:00
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agroszerCharlie_X, crack the whip18:01
Charlie_XLooks like I'll have to although Theuni said he would be along today.18:02
Charlie_XWho else is around?18:02
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* ccomb not far18:03
* Charlie_X breathes a sigh of relief18:03
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Theuni1Did you start? :)18:04
Charlie_XOkay, let's start.18:04
Charlie_XAdam - status of KGS please18:04
agroszerI managed jens to upload a 3.4.1b118:05
agroszerhe is rather protecting access to the server18:05
agroszerdocs and changes etc is missing18:05
agroszerI'm not sure whether there should be a .tgz and .exe release18:06
Charlie_XOkay. When will they be finished? From the ML I guess that all tests are now passing?18:06
agroszeryep all tests pass18:06
agroszerI guess a 3.4.1c1 on the weekend18:06
Theuni1Sounds good. Did you get any feedback from users?18:07
agroszerif I kill the docs18:07
Charlie_XExactly what will be released depends on what can be built.18:07
agroszernot announced yet18:07
Charlie_XIf the beta is now available then it could be announced.18:07
Charlie_XBut missing docs is not good.18:08
agroszeryup, I know, Jens did the upload just today morning18:08
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agroszerwell the release cycle is a bit misterious18:08
agroszerand it's a lot easier if you can hack around on the server ;-)18:08
agroszeranyway I'll announce now18:08
Charlie_XGreat! More next week.18:09
baijumWe should have a link to available Downloads here: At least a Apache "Index" option for the directory18:09
Charlie_Xhm, who's responsible for deciding that? Might be an idea to float on the mailing list. I don't think we have time and representation for now.18:10
Charlie_XNext - ccomb18:11
Charlie_XAny progress on windows builds?18:11
Charlie_XI tried to check out Windows Azure myself but the mime type was broken!18:12
ccombI don't know about windows build, but I can probably set up 64bits linux buildbots soon18:12
ccombwith the help of yotaff18:12
agroszerCharlie_X, last week we were waiting on sidnei18:12
Charlie_XI would have thought that if we are getting MS support, they would prefer us to promote Azure over EC218:12
Charlie_Xccomb: good news18:13
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Charlie_XIs sidnei around?18:13
Charlie_XApparently not.18:14
agroszeror, anyone in contact with sidnei?18:14
Charlie_XWindows builds require your help, apparently.18:14
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Theuni1From the foundation we still have the open issue that the board is willing to put in money, but we need a more specific proposal on who will be responsible for making the investment worthwhile (watching that they get used appropriately).18:15
sidneii have an AMI with python2.6 and vs express edition. should be able to build 64  bits and 32 bits18:15
sidneii need someone's amazon id to assign rights to the ami18:15
agroszersidnei, you have any docs how to set it up?18:15
Theuni1sidnei: so that means that the person the foundation is missing is also the missing link for you ;)18:16
sidneinot really. install python, install vs, install platform tools. that's it.18:16
agroszersounds liek straight forward18:16
baijumagroszer: This page looks nice :) we need more info there.18:17
sidneithat's about it yeah. xp/64 also works.18:18
Theuni1Hmm. Seems like we're a bit stuck.18:19
* baijum added PhiliKON's blog entry entry there:
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agroszerbaijum, yes that's the MinGW stuff18:19
Charlie_XOkay. agroszer do you an amazon id?18:20
agroszerI'm not sure ;-)18:20
agroszermaybe I tested it once18:20
Theuni1Charlie_X: you're aiming that make agroszer take over running the windows machines, right?18:20
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agroszerdo we want to go the EC2 way or thehealtagency?18:21
Theuni1I don't really care which way we go :)18:22
Charlie_XI thought we'd decided on EC2 for windows although the conditions of the licence need checking.18:22
Charlie_Xagroszer: Could you check whether you have an amazon id?18:22
Theuni1I'd like the result to have regular windows builds on machines accessible by community members.18:22
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Theuni1And I figured that we're about to go down the EC2 route.18:22
agroszerok, we take the EC2 route18:23
Charlie_XNo Tres so no information on the MS licences. Or have you ccomb or agroszer heard anything?18:23
* agroszer checking that amazon ID18:23
ccombI don't18:23
agroszerCharlie_X, naaah18:23
agroszeras it seems we could do it without the msdn licenses18:24
agroszerno, my bad18:24
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agroszerbecause of py2.5 64bit18:24
* Charlie_X take a letter Miss Jones, Dear Mr. Microsoft, re. licences when are you going to get back to us. And by the way when are you going to fix your website?18:25
sidneipy2.5 64bit is impossible18:25
sidneion windows18:25
Charlie_XPython 2.5 is nice to have only.18:25
sidneino one uses it, because it's too broken18:25
sidneithat's what Mark Hammond told me. i trust him more than a bit on anything Windows related.18:25
agroszeris py 2.6 64bit better?18:26
Charlie_XOkay time running out on this. agroszer are you going to pursue this for next week?18:27
agroszerbut as second priority18:27
agroszerlet's get first KGS3.4.1 out18:27
baijumZTK Status ?18:28
ccomb(seems hannosh and jan-wijbrand are not there)18:28
Theuni1they had a meeting, i didn't make it18:28
ccombwe had a meeting last week18:28
baijumccomb: I can see good progress in docs18:28
ccombseems we aggree on most topics18:28
ccombI've created a tool to detect minor or major version upgrades18:29
sidneipy26-x64 is fine18:29
ccombA first draft is there
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ccombI will eventually put it in the svn18:30
Charlie_XGood stuff. When's your next meeting with Hanno and Jan-Wijbrand?18:30
ccombprobably soon18:31
ccombwe should have met before this meeting18:31
Charlie_XFinally - bugday18:31
ccombanyway what we need for the ZTK is a full buildbot18:31
Charlie_XBut we need some triaging before then.18:32
Theuni1I think i'll get around doing some of that this weekend18:32
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Charlie_XAny other business?18:33
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Theuni1not from me :)\18:33
Charlie_XRight, then I think we're done for this week.18:34
Charlie_XHopefully we can close KGS next week and make room for something else.18:34
Charlie_XTheuni1: have you got a suggestion for where we should put the IRC-logs?18:34
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Theuni1I haven't read up on the thread in the list, I would guess putting them in the ZTK docs would be reasonable. Or in the developer docs.18:35
Theuni1i need to walk around AFK for a bit18:36
agroszerCharlie_X, no need to copy, you can link to it18:36
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Charlie_Xagroszer: I meant the summary. There were requests for the summary to be generally available.18:37
baijumCharlie_X: What about ZTK wiki ?18:38
baijumI created a page there already:
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baijumnow just one link to ozzope page18:39
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Charlie_Xbaijum: I think the summary paper trail could benefit from being in the repository.18:40
baijumCharlie_X: ah. ok18:40
Charlie_XI don't think either the repository or a wiki are particularly suited for a minutes function but on reflection the repository is a bit more formal.18:42
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baijumCharlie_X: So, we will also move previous summaries there ?18:44
baijumI mean svn18:44
Charlie_XIt was raised on the list and that was the suggestion.18:45
agroszersidnei, which ID do you need?18:45
baijumCharlie_X: ah. ok18:46
Charlie_XNice of Jan to put them on the OzZope site as well.18:46
Charlie_XIf we ever got round to needing agendas working out it might be an idea to have a wiki for them. But probably more sensible to have a wiki for some of the "ongoing" issues that we're never going to be able to address in these intentionally short meetings.18:48
sidneiagroszer, i believe it's the account number, let me confirm18:48
agroszersidnei, "AWS Account ID"?18:48
sidneiagroszer, sounds like it18:49
agroszersidnei, AWS Account ID:2914-3602-605518:49
sidneimeep! Invalid AWS Account Number. Make sure you enter an AWS Account Number (and not an AWS Access ID)18:49
sidneiagroszer, i think its the one that shows up right under your name from the Account Activity page18:50
agroszerit's the same: Account Number 2914-3602-605518:50
agroszermight be that the account is being prepared?18:50
agroszerbut it was just confirmed now18:51
agroszersidnei, try again18:51
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sidneistill nay18:53
sidneioh, took the dashes out, worked18:54
agroszernice feature, those dashes ;-)18:54
agroszerwhat's the name/ID of that image?18:55
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CIA-46wichert * r112245 (CHANGES.txt src/z3c/pt/ Look at language set on request before invoking the zope.i18n negotiator. This makes i18n work again on Zope2.19:47
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hvelardehi, there!20:32
hvelardeanybody from Gocept over here?20:32
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Theuni1hvelarde: that would be me21:11
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hvelardeTheuni1: hi, I'm doing some research on ZRS and zeoraid21:19
hvelardeTheuni1: are you still maintaining zeoraid?21:19
Theuni1except that it's not in maintenance but in development ;)21:19
hvelardeTheuni1: great :-) could you please explain to me, in short, the differences between ZRS and zeoraid (beyond the licence)21:20
Theuni1i don't know much about ZRS21:20
hvelardeTheuni1: ok, let me ask you in a different way21:21
Theuni1zeoraid operates the way that it synchronises underlying storages (e.g. two or more zeo servers) like a RAID 1 would21:21
hvelardeTheuni1: we're working on a project for a huge government entity here in México21:21
hvelardeTheuni1: they want a deployment separated outside and inside a firewall21:22
Theuni1afaik ZRS uses a master/slave approach where the master synchronises to the slave which your clients can fall back to when the master fails. i don't know anything more specific.21:22
* Theuni1 listens21:22
hvelardeTheuni1: mmm, the production servers are going to be in write mode, inside and in read mode outside21:22
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hvelardeTheuni1: I was analyzing this presentation
Theuni1hmm. a low-tech approach for that would be using the filestorage backup script to transfer incremental data21:23
hvelardeTheuni1: as they have a similar architecture but they were using ZRS21:23
Theuni1the only issue would be that you'd have to restart the zeo server after every update21:24
hvelardeTheuni1: but they also want high availability21:24
Theuni1zeoraid is intended to provide both21:24
hvelardeTheuni1: yes21:24
hvelardeTheuni1: ok21:24
hvelardeTheuni1: are you Christian Theune?21:24
Theuni1for WAN links we want an asynchronous mode that would push write operations quickly but without blocking to the remote end, for high availability we want the storages to commit synchronously21:24
hvelardeTheuni1: ok21:25
hvelardetomorrow we have a meeting and we will find out more on this21:25
hvelardeI'll be in touch when I have the idea clear21:25
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hvelardethese guys want to migrate from Vignette to Plone (probably)21:26
hvelardeTheuni1: thanks,we'll be in touch :)21:26
Theuni1good luck21:26
benjifor what it's worth, ZRS works by sending updates to secondaries (slaves) asynchronously21:26
Theuni1benji: ah. so that would be a difference as zeoraid keeps transaction-level integrity.21:28
benjiZRS does too (a transaction has either landed on the secondary or not), but it doesn't require that all secondaries have a transaction before the primary considers the transaction comitted21:29
Theuni1that would be what i intend for the remote links21:29
benjion average the transaction makes it to all secondaries within seconds, but it lets you do some cool stuff too21:29
Theuni1yeah, like quick read-only WAN sites21:30
benjifor example you can do off-site backups by only running a secondary at night (when bandwidth is cheaper) and having it "catch up" on all the day's transactions21:30
Theuni1one thing i'm playing with is multi-master21:30
Theuni1you can already run multiple zeoraid servers with the same set of zeo backends and have clients switch freely between any of them21:31
Theuni1except that split brains aren't covered 100% yet21:31
benjinetwork partitions are hard to deal with21:31
Theuni1so right you now better have an uneven/prime number of servers involved21:31
Theuni1DRBD has some interesting stuff to say aboud that21:32
Theuni1right now we'll go to cover some specific scenarios and provide at least a read-only environment when split-brains are detected21:32
benjimakes sense21:33
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