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| CIA-94 | rogerineichen * r112717 z3c.jsonrpc/ (4 files in 3 dirs): import doctest from python | 06:36 |
|---|---|---|
| CIA-94 | rogerineichen * r112718 z3c.jsontree/ (3 files in 2 dirs): | 06:36 |
| CIA-94 | Fix className handling in javacsript, it seems that newer version of JQuery | 06:36 |
| CIA-94 | can't handle $.className.has(ele, ...) use $(ele).hasClass(...) instead. | 06:36 |
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| CIA-94 | janwijbrand * r112719 /zope.password/branches/jw-fix-ssha-pwmanager: Branch for fixing the ssha password manager to cope with unicode input for checkPassword(). | 09:17 |
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| CIA-94 | janwijbrand jw-fix-ssha-pwmanager * r112720 zope.password/src/zope/password/password.py: encode the input string (being the hashed password) to ascii in checkPassword() | 09:30 |
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| CIA-94 | ctheune * r112721 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100525.rst: Summary from yesterday. | 10:08 |
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| CIA-94 | zagy * r112722 zope.testing/CHANGES.txt: add the 3.8.7 changelog to trunk | 12:33 |
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| CIA-94 | andreasjung * r112723 zopyx.smartprintng.server/README.txt: updated | 13:03 |
| bhagat | like obect.manage_addProperty what method is there to change/update the value of an attribute. | 13:04 |
| kosh | just change the attribute | 13:04 |
| kosh | someobject.attribute = newvalue | 13:05 |
| d2m | manage_changeProperties({}) | 13:05 |
| betabug | hey d2m! long time no see! | 13:05 |
| d2m | hi betabug | 13:05 |
| betabug | how's life? | 13:05 |
| d2m | its been a while, yes | 13:05 |
| * kosh sets betabug on fire and hands out marshmallows | 13:05 | |
| d2m | life is great, thanks - how about yours? | 13:06 |
| betabug | fine :-) | 13:06 |
| bhagat | kosh, d2m let me try with your tips | 13:07 |
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| d2m | bhagat: http://docs.zope.org/zope2/zope2book/BasicScripting.html?highlight=manage_changeproperties#change-properties-of-an-object | 13:09 |
| d2m | ha, the API docs disappeared in the current Zope bokk ;) | 13:09 |
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| d2m | 26.2. SorryThe manually maintained API reference wasn’t such a good idea. Converting it from the original source of structured text to reStructuredText was too much work to be done. We will look into auto-generating the API documentation from docstrings at some point. Reading the code is your best bet for now. | 13:10 |
| d2m | dream on ... | 13:10 |
| betabug | outch | 13:11 |
| betabug | and the zope code is totally unstructured with the move to the new packaging system | 13:11 |
| d2m | there is not much that helps a newbie to get into Zope these days | 13:11 |
| kosh | yeah zope is harder to get into then it used to be | 13:14 |
| kosh | for some reason the developers of it all like eggs and breaking everything up into small pieces | 13:14 |
| kosh | but god figuring out how to upgrade stuff is a pain in the neck | 13:15 |
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| kosh | I am still not sure how to upgrade the installed version of zope 2.12 to the newest version | 13:26 |
| kosh | the instructions are to use easy_install but upgrade won't get dependencies | 13:26 |
| kosh | so upgrading the system to a new version sure seems like a major bitch | 13:26 |
| kosh | just seems so much harder to work now with zope 2 | 13:28 |
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| bhagat | kosh : manage_changeProperties({}) worked like a charm, but someobject.attribute = newvalue failed with error attribute-less Type error or something, anyway thanks | 13:53 |
| kosh | then it wasn't an attribute | 13:56 |
| kosh | you mixed up two different questions, you asked about properties and attributes | 13:56 |
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| CIA-94 | adamg 3.4 * r112724 zope.release/releases/ANNOUNCEMENT.txt: note about tgz and exe releases | 14:23 |
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| brguedes | hello everybody | 14:24 |
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| brguedes | someone can tell me, if this any retry mechanism in ZOPE? specifically in python scripts, using the response.redirect | 14:25 |
| brguedes | ?= | 14:25 |
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| TresEquis | brguedes: Zope's retry handling is built in to the publisher: requests which provoke ZODB's ConflictErrors get retried up to 3 times | 14:31 |
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| planetzopebot | Idan Gazit: Design for developers (Reinout van Rees' weblog) http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2010/05/26/design-for-developers.html | 14:34 |
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| brguedes | but these 3 times retry exists in redirect function? | 14:38 |
| alveraan | Hi. I wonder if it's possible to execute a bash script using zope (e.g. user clicks an html button, script is executed)? With script python this seems to be impossible because of the security restrictions. | 14:39 |
| bigkevmcd | alveraan: you could write a Python product, or an external method | 14:42 |
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| brguedes | I have this error | 14:44 |
| brguedes | 2010-05-26T09:54:53 INFO ZPublisher.Conflict ConflictError at /VirtualHostBase/http/xperience.net.zon.pt:80/VirtualHostRoot/<directory>: database conflict error (oid 0x79b2, class BTrees.OOBTree.OOBTree, serial this txn started with 0x03 | 14:44 |
| brguedes | 86673475613f66 2010-05-26 08:52:27.510908, serial currently committed 0x03866736e4590477 2010-05-26 08:54:53.518998) (198 conflicts | 14:44 |
| brguedes | ) | 14:44 |
| alveraan | bigkevmcd, I'll take a look at external methods, thanks for the hint. | 14:44 |
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| krohit | aphor: /me | 15:38 |
| krohit | aaa: /me wabt | 15:38 |
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| gypsymauro | i | 15:39 |
| CIA-94 | andreasjung * r112725 zopyx.smartprintng.server/README.txt: updated | 15:39 |
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| gypsymauro | there is a way in a template to know the url of a rendered template? I mean I'm accessing to site/foo/bar that is the template I want to know the /foo/bar path | 15:40 |
| betabug | absolute_url | 15:40 |
| betabug | but... | 15:41 |
| betabug | in zope >= 2.10, you have to set the "name" of the ZPT where you define it in your python code | 15:41 |
| betabug | also good old REQUEST['URL'] or something like that | 15:41 |
| betabug | check a sample REQUEST which one you need | 15:42 |
| kosh | betabug: well I figured out how to upgrade zope 2.12 | 15:42 |
| betabug | what was the problem? | 15:42 |
| kosh | well easy_install can't upgrade so that did not work | 15:43 |
| betabug | just install the new version and switch over the instance | 15:43 |
| kosh | I figured out a way to use buildout to install it to /opt/Zope2-2.12.6 and then changed all the instances to point to that version | 15:43 |
| kosh | I tried to just install 2.12.6 and easy_install would not do it since it did not want to upgrade other depenencies | 15:43 |
| kosh | with the old one installed easy_install did not want to install a new one | 15:44 |
| betabug | even with a different virtual_environment? | 15:44 |
| kosh | then I would have to figure out how to setup a virtual environment for no reason | 15:45 |
| kosh | all of this stuff has been made FAR more complex then it needs to be | 15:45 |
| kosh | I used one zope version on the server at any given time now, all instances use just that version | 15:45 |
| kosh | however I have 4 instances + 1 zeo in a load balanced setup | 15:45 |
| betabug | I wouldn't touch easy_intall without virtualenvironment | 15:46 |
| kosh | I did not want to deal with virtual environments and making sure that when the system started zope up that the virtual environment was entered correctly etc | 15:46 |
| gypsymauro | tanx | 15:46 |
| kosh | well easy_install put the stuff in /usr/local so should be no problem with that and I have no conflicts | 15:46 |
| kosh | the buildout one though worked easier I just have a zope sitting in /opt that has everything in it | 15:47 |
| kosh | and pointed to that in zopectl and runzope and it works | 15:47 |
| kosh | no buildout to manage instances, just to get it installed | 15:47 |
| kosh | god I miss the days of just downloaidng the tar.gz and being done with it | 15:48 |
| betabug | yeah :-) | 15:48 |
| kosh | install of all this complex stuff to just get an install | 15:48 |
| kosh | I realy hope that debian/ubuntu goes back to packing zope again | 15:48 |
| kosh | but apparently they stopped doing it because it had gotten so complex to package it | 15:48 |
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| TheJester | Yes, step 1 to increasing your userbase: make it impossible to install | 17:17 |
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| Theuni1 | that will make the bugs stick out less | 17:26 |
| TheJester | Correct, if you don't do it, you can't do it wrong... | 17:26 |
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| Theuni1 | case closed :) | 17:29 |
| TheJester | *** #zope is now known as #django | 17:29 |
| planetzopebot | isotoma.recipe.plonetools 0.0.4 (PyPI recent updates) http://pypi.python.org/pypi/isotoma.recipe.plonetools/0.0.4 | 17:34 |
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| aphor | The problem with .deb is that it is a versioning system for files on disk. Zope wanted to be cross platform, so they did zc.buildout. There needs to be an adapter layer between the Linux packaging metadata and the zc.buildout layer, but who should provide it? | 17:40 |
| TheJester | err | 17:40 |
| TheJester | .dev is a packaging system | 17:40 |
| TheJester | err .deb | 17:41 |
| TheJester | Each os has their own packaging method | 17:41 |
| aphor | TheJester: a package is a label implying a set of files of given versions. | 17:41 |
| TheJester | 99% of the rest of the software forr the rest of the world | 17:41 |
| TheJester | Works fine | 17:41 |
| TheJester | With these systems | 17:41 |
| aphor | Thejester: if you ignore all non-linux systems. | 17:41 |
| TheJester | Inclduing *gasp* package dependencies | 17:42 |
| aphor | sorry: if you only consider monolithic software. | 17:42 |
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| TheJester | *cough* | 17:42 |
| TheJester | you should take that act on tour | 17:43 |
| aphor | TheJester: it should be easy, but boring, to make a buildout that wraps everything it downloads in a .deb package. | 17:45 |
| TheJester | I don't want it to downloa danything | 17:45 |
| TheJester | I want it to install into the actual environment that already exists | 17:45 |
| TheJester | Like it used tto | 17:45 |
| TheJester | For the past 11 years | 17:45 |
| aphor | You want to freeze a version and bundle it up and do manual release management for those packages? | 17:45 |
| TheJester | Welcome to release management | 17:46 |
| TheJester | Rather than "what random shit just got installed" | 17:46 |
| TheJester | PBIs are a different story | 17:46 |
| aphor | If you want someone to pay you to do release management and .deb packaging, or you want to volunteer, that's your business. | 17:46 |
| TheJester | So you're saying that a zope install doesn't do that now? | 17:47 |
| TheJester | It just guesses about what has to be installed? | 17:47 |
| aphor | TheJester: buildout does version control. [versions] | 17:47 |
| TheJester | And downloads it | 17:47 |
| aphor | The default hits PyPi and does what all packaging systems do with versions and dependencies. | 17:48 |
| TheJester | It's not packaged is what you said | 17:48 |
| aphor | ...but it also works on RedHat and MacOS and Solaris and Windows. | 17:48 |
| aphor | The packages are eggs. | 17:49 |
| aphor | eggs are to Python what jars are to Java. | 17:49 |
| TheJester | eggs are zip files | 17:49 |
| TheJester | as ar jars | 17:49 |
| aphor | so are jars | 17:49 |
| aphor | :) | 17:49 |
| aphor | Look carefully, and you will find package metadata. | 17:50 |
| TheJester | They're not magical, they're just a PITA in general | 17:50 |
| TheJester | In production they're fine | 17:50 |
| aphor | They are only a PITA because cross platform packaging is a differnt problem than platform specific packaging. | 17:50 |
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| TheJester | So you let the people that know about the platform, DO the packaging instead of screwing it up for everyone d8) | 17:51 |
| aphor | ..except they didn't do the packaging. | 17:52 |
| TheJester | They used to, before it got too complicated d8) | 17:52 |
| aphor | Your argument boils down to "I like .deb better than buildout" | 17:53 |
| TheJester | I don't use .deb, so, no it doesn't | 17:53 |
| TheJester | I don't even use Linux | 17:53 |
| aphor | point taken | 17:53 |
| TheJester | Or Windows | 17:53 |
| aphor | Your argument boils down to "I like X better than buildout" | 17:54 |
| TheJester | What it boils down to, is that the requirements for Zope XYZ are already known, and are plugged into something instead of just being bundled | 17:54 |
| aphor | You can still make your own packages for each egg and then you can use your own packaging system. | 17:55 |
| TheJester | But now, there's a 3-way handshake, including pypi where things can disappear | 17:55 |
| TheJester | Which means it's entirelyu possible to get version of zope that can no longer be installed | 17:55 |
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| aphor | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/buildout.dumppickedversions | 17:56 |
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| TheJester | which does what ? | 17:56 |
| aphor | RTFM | 17:56 |
| fdrake | There's also zc.sourcerelease, which can be used to create a source release from a buildout, including the referenced versions of packages. | 17:57 |
| TheJester | AKA "I can't explain my argument" | 17:57 |
| fdrake | We (Zope Corp) use that, and then produce system packages (RPMs in our case) from that. | 17:57 |
| fdrake | So all software is frozen at build time. | 17:58 |
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| TheJester | Which begs the question as to why a self-contained source package isn't generated as it has been since before the millenium | 17:58 |
| TheJester | Which is pretty much what kosh was asking for | 17:59 |
| fdrake | TheJester: Isn't generated from what? | 17:59 |
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| fdrake | buildout doesn't generate packages; that's not its job. | 17:59 |
| TheJester | From the 'frozen' software ? | 17:59 |
| TheJester | haha | 17:59 |
| TheJester | You and aphor need to agree first d8) | 18:00 |
| aphor | If you do dumppickedversions, then you can use the picked versions as a package metadata file. | 18:00 |
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| TheJester | picked versions of the dependencies that don't exist ? | 18:01 |
| aphor | Then you can bundle up a buildout with all the right tarballs in a cache directory, and have your package postinstall do a buildout from cache. | 18:01 |
| TheJester | when can I do that? | 18:02 |
| fdrake | buildout performs a build, optionally taking into account version specifications for dependencies. | 18:02 |
| fdrake | zc.sourcerelease creates a source release from the same configuration data. | 18:02 |
| aphor | TheJester: when you are developing your package, you can freeze versions at a tested and proven set. | 18:02 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112726 zc.recipe.rhrc/ (doc.txt setup.py): Don't write doc.txt in setup. That's what --long-description is for. | 18:02 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112727 zc.recipe.rhrc/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Cleaned up trailing whitespace. | 18:02 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112728 zc.recipe.rhrc/setup.py: Cleaned up trailing whitespace. | 18:02 |
| fdrake | That release knows how to build itself (using buildout). | 18:02 |
| kosh | even the old .tar.gz would be an improvement | 18:03 |
| TheJester | So let me rephrase the entire argument into a simple question. Why isn't there a source tarball that works? | 18:03 |
| kosh | it is just so complicated to get it working now | 18:03 |
| kosh | and more tools to learn | 18:03 |
| fdrake | kosh: That's what zc.sourcerelease creates. | 18:03 |
| fdrake | And it Just Works. | 18:03 |
| TheJester | And why isn't zc using ot to make one? d8) | 18:03 |
| kosh | where is that documented at? all I found on installing zope 2.12 was a buildout thing and an easy_install thing | 18:04 |
| fdrake | TheJester: Why isn't ZC using zc.sourcerelease to make tarballs? I think I just told you that's exactly what we do. | 18:04 |
| kosh | the buildout one works to create something not entirely unlike an older release, the easy_instlal one won't upgrade an older release | 18:05 |
| kosh | fdrake: so where can we get that one at? I have not seen it on zope.org or zope2.zope.org | 18:05 |
| kosh | fdrake: for 2.12 it does not even mention that | 18:05 |
| TheJester | Yes that would be my next question d8) | 18:05 |
| fdrake | ZC doesn't release Zope 2 at all. | 18:05 |
| fdrake | The Zope Foundation folks who work on Zope 2 will have to answer that. | 18:06 |
| aphor | Wow. Just for perspective, this is not unlike the Python 3 changes affecting frameworks like Zope. | 18:06 |
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| aphor | .. or Zope 3 affecting Plone. | 18:06 |
| kosh | it just seems like it is so darn complicated now | 18:06 |
| kosh | no more just download the tgz, python setup.py install to build it | 18:07 |
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| kosh | now it is learning buildout, upgrading the zopectl and runzope scripts to poitn to the new install etc | 18:07 |
| aphor | Maybe it only *seemed* simple because stuff was not getting fixed/improved? | 18:07 |
| TheJester | what? | 18:07 |
| aphor | Exactly. | 18:07 |
| kosh | zope 2.0 through 2.10 where getting improved, and they all had simple tgz releases | 18:08 |
| aphor | Nobody has time to keep track of all the moving parts in an actively developed codebase, but everyone wants their bugs fixed. | 18:08 |
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| TheJester | Nobody is doing QA on large projects what? | 18:09 |
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| aphor | TheJester: keep digging. You're getting to the heart of it. | 18:09 |
| TheJester | Where do you work, because, I don't want to work there | 18:09 |
| kosh | someone must be doing the work since zope has a tiny fraction of security issues of other systems | 18:10 |
| kosh | and I have not had it crash on me in a VERY long time | 18:10 |
| kosh | or memory leak etc | 18:10 |
| TheJester | aphor says that's luck if you just used tar and setup.py | 18:10 |
| TheJester | buyt if you used easy_install that really fixed the bugs | 18:10 |
| aphor | TheJester: I work for Bank of America. I have to be very accomodating to bad software practices, and zc.buildout is comparatively nice. | 18:12 |
| kosh | I don't care how it is developed, I just wish there was a tgz install also | 18:12 |
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| aphor | kosh: I suppose you also want someone to support it for free? | 18:12 |
| TheJester | hahahahaha | 18:12 |
| * TheJester backs away | 18:12 | |
| aphor | kosh: I'll also guess you hate being told "just upgrade" when you have a bug/problem? | 18:13 |
| TheJester | aphor: I'm going to guess you haven't worked at BoA very long | 18:13 |
| TheJester | aphor: since banks are pathalogically slow at upgrading anything | 18:13 |
| aphor | TheJester: I have been there for ~5 years | 18:14 |
| aphor | Banks upgrade at a glacial pace. | 18:14 |
| TheJester | So I guess when you tell them to "just upgrade" they get right on it | 18:15 |
| kosh | no I don't expect free support | 18:15 |
| aphor | I only get involved when the compulsion to do something is already there. | 18:15 |
| kosh | but making systems far harder to install is unlikely to help get more people to use it long term | 18:15 |
| TheJester | Yeah I don't see how getting a tarball implies all this other crap | 18:15 |
| kosh | I have been helping people with zope 2 for a long time and I have also backported fixes | 18:15 |
| TheJester | Like support and bugs and qa | 18:16 |
| aphor | kosh: You have a valid point about the regression of install process. | 18:16 |
| TheJester | Esp since fdrake says theey do that anyway | 18:16 |
| CIA-94 | jens 2.2 * r112729 Products.CMFCore/Products/CMFCore/tests/test_ActionInformation.py: - fix test setup to account for manage_propertiesForm changes | 18:16 |
| CIA-94 | jens * r112730 Products.CMFCore/Products/CMFCore/tests/test_ActionInformation.py: - fix test setup to account for manage_propertiesForm changes | 18:16 |
| aphor | kosh: it's also important to have a way to minimize upgrades to control the change. | 18:17 |
| aphor | Say you have a running zope, and you change your custom package or install something new and it exposes a bug in another package. | 18:17 |
| TheJester | That's why god invented version numbers | 18:17 |
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| aphor | The old way had Zope releases ~2 years apart. You had to patch and hope you weren't painting yourself in a corner if you wanted you bug fixed. | 18:18 |
| kosh | I am not saying that eggs are bad to develop with | 18:18 |
| TheJester | If you want a standalone non-interacting-with-other-software you make a PBI | 18:18 |
| TheJester | Or you virtualise your environment (properly) | 18:18 |
| kosh | I am just saying that regardless of what tools are used to develop with that when a new version is announced that some tool also turn that into a standalone tgz release | 18:19 |
| aphor | Is that what you want? | 18:19 |
| TheJester | What does that have to do with anything | 18:19 |
| TheJester | FFS | 18:19 |
| TheJester | After runing easy_install or wtf | 18:19 |
| TheJester | You get .py or .pyc put on your disk | 18:19 |
| TheJester | Somewhere | 18:19 |
| TheJester | How is that different when you use tar + setup.py ? | 18:19 |
| kosh | I am not saying to change the development at all | 18:20 |
| kosh | I am saying that when a release is done make a single tgz out of it | 18:20 |
| aphor | TheJester: bundling is not necessary prior to install time with buildout. | 18:20 |
| TheJester | That's our complaint | 18:20 |
| TheJester | d8) | 18:20 |
| aphor | So are we familiar with math combinations? | 18:21 |
| TheJester | This is getting ridiculous | 18:21 |
| aphor | How many possible versions of a running Zope system for all components released in the last 6 months? | 18:22 |
| aphor | How do we prune that combinatorial explosion to a manageable set of versions? | 18:22 |
| TheJester | That's irrelevant | 18:22 |
| TheJester | When the components are bundled | 18:23 |
| TheJester | d8) | 18:23 |
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| aphor | What goes in your hypothetical old-school tarball? | 18:23 |
| TheJester | How is it hypothetical? | 18:23 |
| aphor | You have to guess what your user base wants. | 18:23 |
| TheJester | I have 10 years of actual tarballs | 18:23 |
| aphor | Do you have such a tarball today? | 18:23 |
| kosh | I looked at a buildout.cfg it has a big list of all the stuff that is part of zope 2.12.6 | 18:23 |
| TheJester | How many do you want? | 18:23 |
| aphor | .. with Today's Zope? | 18:24 |
| kosh | why can't that all be stuck into a sincel zope 2.12.6.tar.gz? | 18:24 |
| kosh | so one file to download and a normal install process | 18:24 |
| TheJester | Apparently that's "too hard" | 18:24 |
| TheJester | For some reason | 18:24 |
| TheJester | That eludes me and you | 18:24 |
| aphor | You missed the huge debates about how Zope is too big and too monolithic. | 18:24 |
| fdrake | I suspect that it's more "not interesting" for those who are being asked to build such things. | 18:25 |
| fdrake | They clearly don't need it. | 18:25 |
| aphor | ... how Zope hurts develpers' heads and Django has a pony. | 18:25 |
| TheJester | monolithic has nothing to do with distribution | 18:25 |
| fdrake | There's nothing stopping you from building one, since you know what you're looking for. | 18:25 |
| shen-long | yeah, buildout and your own egg cache is the way to go | 18:26 |
| shen-long | or tarball if that's what you want | 18:26 |
| aphor | TheJester: canning stuff that way allows/encourages module interdependency in an unhealty way. | 18:26 |
| shen-long | I'd rather decisions not be made for me | 18:26 |
| TheJester | aphor: at least you can get the software installed | 18:26 |
| aphor | Hey, Plone publishes buildout version.cfg files. | 18:26 |
| TheJester | hahaah | 18:27 |
| TheJester | let's review the number of people who come in here with buildout plone issues d8) | 18:27 |
| kosh | we don't have that much time | 18:27 |
| TheJester | But, I'm familar with combinations! | 18:27 |
| MatthewWilkes | TheJester: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/buildout.threatlevel/1.1 | 18:27 |
| MatthewWilkes | It's currently 'GUARDED' | 18:28 |
| TheJester | why would I ever install that? | 18:28 |
| shen-long | lol! | 18:28 |
| aphor | In case it's not clear, I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, and I agree that there is a problem with buildout. | 18:28 |
| shen-long | MatthewWilkes, I had no idea about that | 18:28 |
| TheJester | We don't care about buildout... we just want the "traditional" distribution, which apparently can be done using a readily available tool... | 18:29 |
| shen-long | yeah, I mean, how often have you been trying to get something done on a weekend, and some egg has a dependency on a developer's site, and it's down, and you're screwed from running the buildout | 18:29 |
| kosh | honestly if there where an easy way to upgrade to a newer version of zope that would probably deal with the issue for me | 18:29 |
| kosh | but it took a very long time to figure out all of these tools just to upgrade from 2.12.1 to 2.12.6 | 18:29 |
| kosh | and there are NO upgrade instructions I could fine | 18:29 |
| kosh | find | 18:29 |
| aphor | That's great stuff. | 18:30 |
| shen-long | maybe I'm missing an issue here, but can't you just use the upgraded egg, and change your versions accordingly ? | 18:30 |
| cwarner_ | kosh: true | 18:30 |
| aphor | The suggestion of just scrapping buildout sounds like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. | 18:30 |
| cwarner_ | kosh: i'd say there is a problem with things just changing on a whim with no proper documentation but it's been like that forever | 18:30 |
| kosh | for a very long time it was just a tgz file and python setup.py install would build everything in it | 18:31 |
| cwarner_ | kosh: it's not going to readily change over night however i'd recommend publishing a how-to on steps you took to get where you are.. | 18:31 |
| aphor | why not do a [bundle] recipe in buildout that grabs conservatively selected version sets and numbers them? | 18:32 |
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| aphor | FWIW: this debate sounds awfully familiar with the Linux RHEL/Fedora split user population. | 18:34 |
| TheJester | So basically ther isn't anything that is "zope 2" | 18:35 |
| aphor | speaking of which.. I have to go solve a problem with RHEL packaging dependency problems. | 18:36 |
| TheJester | Exxcept some meta-data | 18:36 |
| aphor | TheJester: very meta | 18:36 |
| * TheJester waits for the "hahaha now you're all really running zope3/bluebream" email | 18:36 | |
| kosh | well I would have to learn how bundle even works with buildout | 18:37 |
| kosh | until today I had never even touched buildout | 18:37 |
| TheJester | You go first | 18:37 |
| aphor | ... now that you have discovered the secret plan PREPARE TO DIE! | 18:37 |
| TheJester | I'll visit you in the looney bin | 18:37 |
| *** davisagli|away is now known as davisagli | 18:37 | |
| aphor | [bundle] was a hypothetical suggestion. AFAIK it isn't implemented. | 18:38 |
| aphor | I agree though, Zope SHOULD publish known good version files. | 18:39 |
| kosh | they do already, that is what a 2.12.6 release is | 18:40 |
| kosh | I only use zope 2 with exactly the files it comes with | 18:40 |
| kosh | I don't upgrade any packages in it | 18:41 |
| cwarner_ | kosh: there is a lot of documentation around the web in regards to buildout but you should write down the steps you took if you feel they will be useful | 18:41 |
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| kosh | I did many google searches on how to upgrade zope 2.12 and nothing very useful came up | 18:43 |
| aphor | Now you're here, and instead of asking how to upgrade zope 2.12 you have lost focus and are ranting about having to ask. | 18:45 |
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| aphor | kosh: you deserve to get your money back. | 18:45 |
| TheJester | yeah kosh you n00b | 18:45 |
| kosh | actually I did ask, nobody around seemed to know so I figured it out | 18:46 |
| kosh | it annoys me that ways of doing things which have worked for close to 10 years suddenly don't work and the new procedures are not documented | 18:46 |
| TheJester | It sucks you can't do an offline install either | 18:47 |
| bigkevmcd | who's offline these days?! | 18:47 |
| bigkevmcd | and you probably can actually | 18:47 |
| TheJester | most of my VMs | 18:47 |
| TheJester | where I test stuff | 18:47 |
| bigkevmcd | we build from a set of downloaded deps | 18:47 |
| TheJester | You can't if it's going to go download crap | 18:47 |
| TheJester | That's not a big drama though | 18:49 |
| TheJester | Just won't use those version d8) | 18:49 |
| TheJester | Actually I only have Zope tarballs from 2.3.0 | 18:51 |
| TheJester | I seem to hav elost the pre 2.3 ones | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112731 zc.recipe.rhrc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | New Feature | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | A new independent-processes option causes multiple processes to be | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | restarted independently, rather then stoping all of the and the | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | starting all of them. | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim 1.2.0 * r112732 zc.recipe.rhrc/trunk: tag | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim 1.2.0 * r112733 zc.recipe.rhrc/setup.py: Updated version. | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112734 zc.recipe.rhrc/README.txt: Fixed. | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim 1.2.0 * r112735 zc.recipe.rhrc/trunk: oops | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112736 /zc.recipe.rhrc/tags/1.3.0: tag | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim 1.3.0 * r112737 zc.recipe.rhrc/setup.py: Updated version. | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112738 zc.recipe.rhrc/setup.py: Updated version. | 18:52 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112739 zc.recipe.rhrc/README.txt: typo | 18:52 |
| aphor | TheJester buildout offline is -o | 18:52 |
| TheJester | When Zope was only 1.7M d8) | 18:52 |
| TheJester | aphor: I don't really care about commands that aren't going to work d8) | 18:53 |
| aphor | TheJester: it breaks because you don't have all of your dependencies. | 18:53 |
| TheJester | It breaks because they didn't come in the box d8) | 18:54 |
| aphor | babies... | 18:54 |
| TheJester | Python's tagline used to be "Batteries included" | 18:54 |
| aphor | TheJester: then someone got pissed because they couldn't get pr0nlib in core ditro. | 18:55 |
| aphor | ditro--distro | 18:55 |
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| kosh | sometimes I want to shoot the bot | 19:03 |
| CIA-94 | janwijbrand * r112740 zope.password/ (src/zope/password/password.py CHANGES.txt): encode encoded_password to ascii before passing it to urlsafe_b64decode# | 19:03 |
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| TheJester | Does banning a non-opped entity stop it from talking? | 19:04 |
| TheJester | That would be a nice way to make it shut up during meetings | 19:05 |
| TheJester | I'm tempted to get rid of it | 19:05 |
| TheJester | Anyone who wanted to follow check-ins would probably already be doing it | 19:05 |
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| MatthewWilkes | TheJester: Yeah, freenode also allows you to set someone +q to quiet them | 19:07 |
| TheJester | that would be easier yeah | 19:08 |
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| TheJester | If people actually want the checkins spewed here, but, I'm not sure that it's really that useful here | 19:09 |
| TheJester | perhaps I should kick ban it until the owner shows up d8) | 19:11 |
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| Theuni1 | TheJester: i think tres added those | 19:12 |
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| Theuni1 | i actually thought they're annoying initially, but then again i don't mind them that much | 19:12 |
| TheJester | Well I'm missing people asking for help coz it's scrolling them out of the window d8) | 19:13 |
| TheJester | When I look her eit's just a page full of checkin messages | 19:13 |
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| Theuni1 | Ah. Haven't thought of that. That's actually stupid. | 19:14 |
| Theuni1 | maybe another channel for the bots then? #zope-babble | 19:14 |
| TheJester | I suggested zope-status or zope-dev | 19:14 |
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| Theuni1 | i'd rather have another channel for automated messages than another one for developers. I think consolidating the places where people talkt to each other is worthwhile. Not? | 19:18 |
| TheJester | I'm not hung up on the name d8) | 19:18 |
| TheJester | I whole-heartedly support the concept though d8) | 19:21 |
| Theuni1 | :) | 19:22 |
| Theuni1 | you might wanna mail tres seaver about this, i think he can do something about it | 19:22 |
| Theuni1 | also, we should update the status line of this channel a bit and point over there. | 19:22 |
| TheJester | over where? d8) | 19:23 |
| TheJester | Normally someone was updating the topic | 19:23 |
| TheJester | I updated it one day because someone wanted the transcript URL | 19:23 |
| Theuni1 | The transcript URLs live in the summaries that I send to the mailinglist. Also, it's an old transcript by now. | 19:24 |
| TheJester | given we're at 2.12.6 apparently... | 19:24 |
| Theuni1 | TheJester: over to the place that tres moves the bot if you figure this out with him :) | 19:24 |
| Theuni1 | \o/ | 19:24 |
| TheJester | what mailing list getts the summaries? | 19:25 |
| Theuni1 | zope-dev | 19:26 |
| *** TheJester changes topic to "http://zope.org http://wiki.zope.org/zope2 http://wiki.zope.org/zope3 please paste your error traceback at http://paste.lisp.org/new/zope please mention zope version when asking questions - public Wave http://bit.ly/7Po4KD" | 19:26 | |
| TheJester | Apprently releases don't go to zope-announce any more | 19:27 |
| TheJester | Or I missed it | 19:27 |
| TheJester | which is probably mor elikely | 19:27 |
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| planetzopebot | collective.gallery 1.0b2 (PyPI recent updates) http://pypi.python.org/pypi/collective.gallery/1.0b2 | 20:34 |
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| CIA-94 | jim * r112741 zc.zlibstorage/setup.py: distutils hurts. | 22:02 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112742 zc.zlibstorage/src/zc/zlibstorage/README.txt: distutils hurts. | 22:02 |
| CIA-94 | jim * r112743 /zc.zlibstorage/tags/0.1.1: tag | 22:02 |
| CIA-94 | jim 0.1.1 * r112744 zc.zlibstorage/setup.py: distutils hurts. | 22:02 |
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| TheJester | Do you come in compact too? | 22:10 |
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| illsci | Hi. I'm looking for zope ZConfig rpms.... | 22:39 |
| illsci | im trying to see if they live in redhat epel | 22:39 |
| illsci | any idea what the name of python-ZConfig or the rpm that might have ZConfig python module in | 22:39 |
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| TheJester | It sbhould be inside Zope intself | 22:42 |
| TheJester | It's not a seperate package | 22:43 |
| TheJester | Or wasn't | 22:43 |
| TheJester | http://www.zope.org/Members/fdrake/zconfig/ | 22:44 |
| TheJester | check there maybe | 22:44 |
| TheJester | But if yo uhave zope installed it should already be in there | 22:45 |
| TheJester | If you don't (and don't want to), I have no idea d8) | 22:46 |
| illsci | that was it... the zope rpm | 22:46 |
| illsci | yay! | 22:46 |
| illsci | thx | 22:46 |
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