IRC log of #zope for Wednesday, 2010-06-30

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CIA-94janwijbrand * r113997 gocept.selenium/ (4 files in 2 dirs): ignore the static package when finding tests for the ztk.cfg and zope2.cfg and plone.cfg profiles00:16
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tommyJongall zope objects that can be traversed to can inherantly be used as xmlrpc servers right?00:40
tommyJongthere is no additional step in using traversable zope objects as an xmlrpc server correct?00:41
tommyJongor would i have to create a python script to create an xmlrpc server out of a zope object and then have my xmlrpc client query that object?00:41
Charlie_XI don't think that is 100% true00:42
Charlie_XAnything that inherits from SimpleItem should do xmlrpc.00:42
Charlie_XOtherwise you would need an adapter00:42
tommyJongCharlie_X: are there any additonal steps in using a zope object as an xmlrpc server or are they inherantly aware?00:44
Charlie_XIt depends a bit on your Zope object.00:44
tommyJongi ask because  i am having quite a time getting imformation from a zope object from a wordpress site that uses a php xmlrpc client00:45
Charlie_XZope 2 objects all inherit from SimpleItem. Zope 3 / BlueBream ones are normally simple Python objects.00:45
tommyJongfor basic things though like id, title, and other standard getters and setters of an object should be available via xmlrpc though right?00:45
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TBoneSteakGumthis is driving me nuts... do zope objects inherantly act as xmlrpc servers or do i have to do something like this "d=xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:8080/Test', ... xmlrpclib.BasicAuthTransport('myusername','mypassword'))"01:53
TBoneSteakGumto make them servers01:53
TBoneSteakGumi want to call a few methods on some of my Zope objects using PHP01:53
TBoneSteakGumxmlrpc module01:53
TBoneSteakGumand i can't figure this out =(01:53
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Charlie_XSee Chapter 13.3.2 of "Web Component Development with Zope 3"02:00
Charlie_XAnd check your Zope configuration02:02
Charlie_XA mailing list is probably a better place to ask than here.02:03
Charlie_XBut see also the source and documentation for zope.publisher02:03
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planetzopebotContributions (ZODB Documentation)
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CIA-94andreasjung * r113998 zopyx.versioning/zopyx/versioning/ ( README.txt): updated09:15
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CIA-94hannosch * r113999 Zope/doc/CHANGES.rst: Added note about help system side-effect11:01
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mk86Hello. I got a very annoying problem with Zope's document_src(), maybe someone could help?
CIA-94hannosch 2.12 * r114000 Zope/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Avoid problems in removing cache managers introduced in Zope
d2mhi mk86, what is the 'xlwt' module you mention in your paste?11:16
mk86a python module creating xls-files for excel11:16
d2mi see, and you get the list data as a string11:17
mk86the module is working alright, the problem is the strange output, document_src() generates I guess11:17
d2mthrough xmlrpc11:17
mk86yes, I call the method from an external script via xmlrpc11:18
d2mso, no python list but strings a passed - did you try passing the list itself througgh xmlrpc?11:18
mk86i pass the list through xmlrpc11:19
mk86but I can already see from the zmi-side that the strings inside the returned list are not ok11:19
mk86mylist = ['H\xc3\xb6he', ....] and  mylist = ['H\\xc3\\xb6he', ...]  are not the same here11:20
d2mwhy do you use the document_src method at all?11:21
mk86the first one seems to be correct and works fine, but document_src delivers the second one (after converting to utf811:21
d2mwhich Zope btw. ?11:21
mk86I need a table of special keywords that are found in all my dtml-methods11:22
mk86Zope 2.7.911:22
d2mok, how did you get dtml to encode to utf-8?11:23
d2mshoudl be latin-1 ootb11:23
mk86like i wrote in pastie:  I perform decode('latin1') + encode('utf-8') on all my found strings11:23
d2mi know that you need to convert to utf-8 to get the xmlrpc thing working11:24
d2mbut the data shgould be in latin-1 already11:24
mk86yes I know that too, that's why i did it11:24
d2mor is it not? last time you wrote, your read the data from the filesystem11:25
mk86like i said conversation to utf-8 seems to work but he treats \\xc3\\xb6 like a bunc hof characters and not like \xc3\xb6 that stands for "ü"11:26
mk86document_src() itself returns latin-1 text11:27
d2mbtw, you can simply export certain zope objects with
d2mdon't know the location of the zope package, but it could be the same11:27
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mk86thought about that option alrady but I dont want to add any additional product for that11:28
d2myou dump to the filesystem and work happily on11:28
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mk86;-) I'm not allowed to11:28
d2mok, do you read the source files from fielsytem and echo them through a dtml metod?11:29
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mk86no python script only11:29
d2mso, the source is in filesystem already?11:29
d2mchances are, that the files are in a wrong encoding already11:30
mk86ok see: the main script of my little search-programm is an external one11:30
mk86it triggers a internal script inside the zmi via xmlrpc...11:30
mk86that script is performing a search through all dtml-method objects inside the zmi11:31
mk86and is returning the src of these files with document_src()11:31
mk86then i filter out my searched words from that source, convert them to utf-811:31
mk86the words are packed into a list which is finally delivered back to my external script11:32
mk86and there, it's written into an excel-file11:32
mk86the problem is, the way document_src captures the sourcecode somehow11:33
mk86I can't understand why he came up with double backslashes.11:34
d2mif you print and return the results of your search to the browser - does it look ok?11:35
mk86it's like a utf-8 code that is trapped inside a ordinary ascii-string somehow11:35
mk86no there is still \\ in the list11:35
d2mok, then the source is already hosed11:35
d2mhow does it look like if you edit one of the dtml methods though the browser?11:36
mk86wait ill check11:37
d2mdid you set management_page_charset somewhere?11:37
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mk86the text looks like normal "Höhe" (with Umlauts)11:39
mk86hm no i dont think so11:40
d2mok, then i do not understand why ptinzing the search results and returning printed would cause the \\s11:41
mk86hm when i do not encode to utf-8 the returned latin text of document_src() has also that annoying double backslasheds11:41
mk86I have just check the document_src itself. it does perform some kind of .read() operation with a parameter "raw".  Mabye that "raw" is the problem?11:42
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d2mlets say you have a dtml method at http://localhost:8080/demo/dtmlmethod -- look at it like http://localhost:8080/demo/dtmlmethod/document_src (what do you see?)11:45
mk86when i set my browser coding to latin1, it looks fine and i can see the word with the umlauts11:47
mk86in utf-8 i just see a square with a questionmark11:47
mk86I guess thats ok, since that code is latin111:48
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d2mi did a test and it works for me (TM)
mk86does it work if you return it as a list?11:55
d2mhow would you return a string as a list?11:55
d2mdocument_src returns a sting11:55
d2mstring even11:55
mk86a sry, i do another step after calling document_src()11:56
d2mso, what are you doing to the string before returning?11:56
mk86run through that string and fetch out my searched words11:56
d2mok, lets try11:56
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mk86then i append these words to a list and return that list11:57
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d2mmk86: sorry, did not get your anser - did that work for you?12:12
mk86little in stress right now srry, back in a few min12:12
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CIA-94MatthewWilkes 2.12 * r114001 Zope/src/Products/MailHost/ This version of is the same as the one in zope.sendmail, modulo some whitespace changes and not all error handling from z.s being present. It should therefore be safe to make this a deprecated alias.12:46
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CIA-94MatthewWilkes 2.12 * r114002 Zope/src/Products/MailHost/ Actually use the sendmail SMTPMailer.13:01
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CIA-94baijum 1.0 * r114003 bbkit/ (CHANGES.txt bluebream.cfg releases/bluebream-1.0b2.cfg): prepare for second beta13:17
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planetzopebotcollective.langMailHost 0.3.2 (PyPI recent updates)
CIA-94baijum 1.0 * r114004 bbkit/ (CHANGES.txt zopeapp.cfg releases/bluebream-1.0b2.cfg): Use = 3.9.214:16
CIA-94baijum * r114005 bluebream/ (3 files in 3 dirs):14:16
CIA-94- Include zope.error & zope.principalregistry from site.zcml14:16
CIA-94- Use 1.0b2 release KGS14:16
CIA-94baijum * r114006 bluebream/ (CHANGES.txt Preparing release 1.0b214:16
CIA-94baijum * r114007 /bluebream/tags/1.0b2: Tagging 1.0b214:16
CIA-94baijum * r114008 bluebream/ (CHANGES.txt Back to development: 1.0b314:16
mk86@d2m: that doesnt work.14:22
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CIA-94charlie_x * r114009 Products.CMFDefault/Products/CMFDefault/browser/membership/ Need to check whether a member_id has been supplied.14:37
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d2mmk86: what does't work?15:00
mk86 d2m: mk86:
d2mmk86: i did it my way, you have to try yourself15:01
d2mbut what exactly did not work?15:02
mk86that eval-thing.15:02
mk86it' seems it has no effect on the doublebackslash15:03
planetzopebotbluebream 1.0b2 (PyPI recent updates)
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d2mmk86: you could post the string that you get back from xmlrpc15:31
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mk86it's a list that looks like this:    ['H\\xc3\\xb6he', ...15:32
d2ma list or a string?15:32
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mk86a list with my words that were found inside the string that document_src() gave me15:33
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mk86that's my internal script15:35
mk86it searches through the folder-tree for all DTML Method, DTML document and Python Script objects and gets the document_src from them15:36
mk86then I check each of these source-snippets for the word "gettextlatin" that is followed by a translated word. So I collect that transated word I need for my excel list and append it to the list15:37
mk86for example he finds "gettextlatin('zurück')" and appends the word "zurück" to my list15:38
d2mlooks like you encode the elements of the list, make a string of it and encode parts of the string again15:39
mk86your right, I removed the second encoding now but the error is still the same15:42
mk86he still has trouble with "\\" instead of "\"15:42
MatthewWilkesmk86: Interesting way to search a folder structure…15:44
d2mi'd suggest you defer encoding until you return the list (you could use list comprehension)15:44
d2mmk86: you could use zopes built-in search to find certain object types under a path ...15:46
CIA-94charlie_x * r114010 Products.CMFDefault/Products/CMFDefault/browser/membership/ (preferences.txt TODO.txt): Updated for preferences.15:47
CIA-94charlie_x * r114011 Products.CMFDefault/Products/CMFDefault/profiles/default/actions.xml: Change password action added.15:47
CIA-94charlie_x * r114012 Products.CMFDefault/Products/CMFDefault/skins/zpt_generic/ Information about folder security is misleading: member's cannot change the security settings.15:47
mk86guess thats easier, but i got no idea how to do that in a pythonscript15:47
d2mlike recursive visiting folders?15:49
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CIA-94charlie_x * r114013 Products.CMFDefault/Products/CMFDefault/profiles/default/actions.xml: New action cannot be added without appropriate upgrade step16:08
CIA-94charlie_x * r114014 Products.CMFDefault/Products/CMFDefault/browser/membership/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Member preferences view.16:08
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deftunixhi all, has zope concept like java heap space ?16:54
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deftunixand tuning capability to it16:55
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bigkevmcddeftunix: they're quite different things, Java VMs have a heap space, Zope isn't a VM16:56
bigkevmcddeftunix: what are you actually trying to do?16:56
deftunixbigkevmcd: i'm studing zope and comparing it with well known java application server and servlet container :)16:57
deftunixbigkevmcd: thanks... for tuning zope i can work with caching, right?16:57
bigkevmcddeftunix: you can do all sorts of things16:57
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deftunixbigkevmcd: how can i control memory allocation?16:58
bigkevmcddeftunix: you can control the number of threads, and the per-thread ZODB cache16:59
bigkevmcdthere are also Zope Products that will cache computations17:00
bigkevmcde.g. RAM Cache manager17:00
bigkevmcdbe aware that the cache-size in the zope.conf file is the number of objects17:01
bigkevmcdnot the memory17:01
CIA-94andreasjung * r114015 zopyx.versioning/zopyx/versioning/ streamlined api17:03
planetzopebotWhy A Case Management Framework? (Planet Nuxeo)
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CIA-94andreasjung * r114016 zopyx.versioning/zopyx/versioning/storages/mongodb/ basic storage operations are working - of course, we need tests :)17:32
CIA-94andreasjung * r114017 zopyx.versioning/zopyx/versioning/storages/mongodb/ (tests tests/ added17:32
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CIA-94andreasjung * r114018 zopyx.versioning/zopyx/versioning/ added17:46
CIA-94andreasjung * r114019 zopyx.versioning/ (3 files in 3 dirs): testing boilerplate17:46
CIA-94andreasjung * r114020 zopyx.versioning/zopyx/versioning/storages/mongodb/tests/ updated17:46
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CIA-94fdrake * r114021 zope.testing/CHANGES.txt: fixed typos18:08
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CIA-94charlie_x * r114022 Products.CMFDefault/Products/CMFDefault/browser/membership/ ( Link from preferences form to password change form will be replace by a visible action. As no additional text is required no dedicated template is required.19:28
CIA-94hannosch * r114023 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/releaseteam/meeting-20100615.rst: Rescue an old task, which didn't get done19:28
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CIA-94adamg * r114024 /Sandbox/adamg/zope.wineggbuilder/trunk/master.cfg: added bluebream, ztk1.020:52
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j-w_hi hannosch20:58
hannoschj-w_: hi!20:58
hannoschj-w_: did you have time to test the ztk release with Grok?20:59
j-w_nope :(20:59
hannoschah, don't worry :)20:59
j-w_hectic at work20:59
j-w_yeah, well, I really wanted to20:59
j-w_i'm curious how the ztk-release will work out21:00
hannoschwe launch two different projects tomorrow, speaking of hectic :)21:00
j-w_you have time now? or should you really go back to the projects?21:00
hannoschI have time21:00
j-w_ok :)21:00
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j-w_no ccomb yet21:00
hannoschluckily we are big enough by now, so I'm not actually involved with any of those two projects21:00
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j-w_who wrote all the "ztk changelog" items that now show up here ?21:02
j-w_very very useful21:02
hannoschthose have been there for a long time21:02
j-w_uhm, ok...21:02
j-w_missed that somehow :)21:02
hannoschyeah. they haven't been very visible21:03
hannoschlooks like nadako and faassen wrote most of them21:04
planetzopebotcollective.tabr 1.1 (PyPI recent updates)
j-w_ah, ccomb did send us a mail just now...21:04
hannoschyeah. maybe he will read the one about meeting up as well :)21:05
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hannoschwait for another 5 minutes for him? then do the meeting without him?21:06
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j-w_hannosch: I'll do the notes again21:08
j-w_unless you object to that :)21:08
hannoschof course not! :))21:08
j-w_hannosch: start?21:11
j-w_minutes of last meeting ok?21:11
hannoschI put some more stuff into the open points (
j-w_I saw that indeed. +121:12
hannoschok, +1 from me as well21:12
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j-w_I guess we have one main topic, being the aplha release21:12
j-w_oh, maybe first review the todo items21:12
hannoschlet's go quickly through the tasks21:13
hannoschupdate ccomb branch / extras.cfg is all done I think21:13
j-w_very nice21:13
hannoschreview unresolved is done as well, equally nice21:13
j-w_I think the review of unresolved deps etc is done too21:14
j-w_I didn't dare ask janjaap yet about the 64-bit windows test machine21:14
j-w_he is very very busy21:14
j-w_either I should try it21:14
hannoschok. leave it for next week21:14
hannoschI think adam is making progress as well21:14
j-w_he finishing his master thesis and generally a bit overloaded21:14
hannoschsaw some ztk mentions on his buildbot machine21:14
j-w_ah, that would be good21:14
hannoschok. should I talk to Adam about it?21:15
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j-w_I think that would be good21:15
hannoschok. then I have an easy task on my list :)21:15
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j-w_i'll leave the task in the minutes though and add yours21:16
hannoschlast task was "merge ccomb" branch, all done as well21:16
j-w_yes, fine21:16
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hannoschI think we can only talk about the "alpha release" from the open points21:17
j-w_did encounter anything "difficult"?21:17
j-w_did you... I mean21:17
hannoschnope. I just reused all the Zope 2 scripts :)21:17
j-w_ah, ok21:18
hannoschactually today or very soon, I'd like to just make an alpha release, same way I did that dev-r12345 release21:18
hannoschI didn't want to call it an alpha without your consent21:18
j-w_yes, I do not see anything standing in its way21:18
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hannoschcool. then I'll make an alpha today and sent out a note to zope-dev21:18
hannoschthe first ZTK release! party!21:19
j-w_maybe we should just do that indeed. It feels a bit, odd, but really I do not see anything blocking it right now21:19
hannoschit's an alpha. it's not really committing to anything. just shows progress21:19
j-w_i'll make note of the tasks of testing grok and BB against it21:20
hannosch+1 on testing tasks21:20
hannoschI wanted to talk about roadmap to get a final out. not sure that makes sense without ccomb21:20
j-w_hmmm, not sure21:21
j-w_we can talk about it "off record"21:21
hannoschyep. I'll post a mail instead21:21
j-w_or maybe by email?21:21
hannoschor actually we can talk about first21:21
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hannoschI was aiming for a beta in say four weeks (only bugfixes allowed) and a final something like august/september21:22
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j-w_by bugfixes allowed you mean we will not update major versions of packages, right?21:22
hannoschand I'd like to keep all 4.x releases out of the ZTK 1.021:23
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hannoschzope.testing 4.0.x that is and that new zope.testrunner stuff21:23
j-w_and I would say all of the buildbot slaves we decide on should be "green"21:23
j-w_there aren't any 4.x release in now, right?21:24
* j-w_ quickly scans list21:24
j-w_yes there is21:24
hannoschthat one is ok21:24
j-w_but I actuallu think we need that version21:24
hannoschI was thinking about lennart's stuff in zope.testing and friends21:25
j-w_and in zopeapp-versions.cfg21:25
hannoschthose are actually backwards incompatible21:25
j-w_that's ok too21:25
j-w_right, I see21:25
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j-w_ok, so upcomming efforts should focus on: follwing bugfix releases and getting all tests to pass21:26
hannoschone other thing: ZODB 3.10 (currently in beta) won't get in either. it doesn't support Python 2.4 anymore21:26
j-w_ok, good to note21:26
hannoschok. I think we tend to agree :)21:26
hannoschyeah, where is ccomb :))21:27
j-w_maybe we write this part down in an email indeed21:27
j-w_and make that the agenda for next meeting21:27
hannoschyep. I can write it down21:27
TresEquisI don't thine ZODB is in the ZTK21:28
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TresEquisI know Jim doesn't consider it managed as part of the ZTK21:28
hannoschTresEquis: it's in the dependencies section of it21:28
hannoschor in the KGS - not in the "managed by" part21:28
TresEquisa ZTK which "pins" ZODB < 3.10 is not helpful21:28
TresEquisfor a Zope 2.13 for instance21:29
j-w_you can pin a version yourself, right21:29
hannoschit doesn't pin it. it just says zodb 3.9.5 is compatible21:29
j-w_ztk just suggests a coherent version21:29
TresEquisWhy ist ZODB  a testing dependency for some ZTK packages?21:29
TresEquisor is it more than testing?21:29
hannoschit's a real dependency of many ZTK packages21:30
j-w_TresEquis, hannosch are we identifying a potential problem here?21:31
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TresEquisbecause the question will keep coming up, over and over:  "why can't I use version X of a non-ZTK package with the ZTK"?21:34
j-w_can we find a good place to document the answer to that question?21:35
j-w_a ZTK FAQ?21:35
TresEquishannosch: basically, I don't think anything in that .cfg should be published as a "ZTK index"21:35
hannoschyou can. buildout has a good way of combining and overriding version sets from multiple sources. indexes just don't support that. it's roll your own21:35
TresEquiseasy_install supports it by using different indexes for different installs21:36
TresEquiskeeping the non-ZTK pacakges in the ZTK index is going to lead to confusion21:36
hannoschTresEquis: ok. let's have that discussion on zope-dev after I make the alpha one announcement21:36
TresEquisand dilute the story21:36
j-w_ah, right that;s what an custom index is usefull for21:36
j-w_when you use easy_install21:36
hannoschwe currently plan to offer an index, but none of the three frameworks will use it. we can just not publish one21:37
j-w_TresEquis: still, where would people get the ZODB from if they use the ZTK index?21:37
j-w_buildout supports multiple indexes?21:37
TresEquisj-w_: where are they going to get any other non-ZTK egg?21:38
TresEquisusing the ZTK index as the default one for buildout should be non-supported21:38
TresEquisbecause buildout is stupid21:38
TresEquisabout that21:38
TresEquisthe buildout misfeature is the source of that idiotic "quasi-KGS" from Zope 3.321:39
hannoschright. but people don't really use indexes with buildout. it doesn't make all that much sense there. find-links and version restrictions just work21:39
TresEquiswhich was "KGS + all of PyPI"21:39
j-w_right, that's why I do not understand using a custom index is useful21:39
TresEquishannosch: I use indexes, but only because I make my own21:39
TresEquisan index is primarily useful for easy_install users21:40
TresEquisand should therefore *not* include extraneous packages21:40
j-w_in the buildout sense, but even in a easy_install sense - will easy_install fall back to pypi if it cannot find a package on the given custom index?21:40
hannoschok. is this going anywhere? what are we arguing about exactly?21:40
j-w_so,how would yopu resolve all the deps if we would leave out the ZODB form the ZTK index?21:40
TresEquisI want *not* to have the dependencies etc. in the ZTK index21:40
j-w_but how can that work?21:41
* j-w_ really doesn't understand21:41
TresEquislook at what is currently in that list21:41
TresEquisexcept for the ZODB stuff, it's mostly "toolchain"21:41
TresEquisand not real dependencies21:41
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hannoschsure. that toolchain is there, as all the three frameworks tend to use it, so it makes sense to share that version information21:42
TresEquisI would rather tell people using easy_install to get ZODB etc. installed from PyPI21:42
TresEquishannosch: but *not* in an index21:42
hannoschcurrently it's just the same packages in the versions.cfg file and the index21:43
hannoschthat's a simple setup21:43
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TresEquisInstalling a library from ZTK is not like installing Zope221:43
ccombhannosch: hi!21:43
TresEquisyou don't want to impose extra policy on the library user21:43
j-w_I had the impression we were not...21:44
j-w_since we only advertise a list that we think works coherently21:44
TresEquisin particular, your suggested policy of ZODB < 3.10 to keep Python 2.4 compatibility21:44
j-w_by passing all tests in context21:44
TresEquisPython 2.4 compatibility is a questionable goal for the toolkit, to begin with21:45
TresEquisas none of its consumer frameworks still run on 2.4 (that I know of)21:45
hannoschit's a goal for the 1.0 release because BlueBream still supports it21:45
TresEquisso let BB pin the ZODB version21:45
TresEquisnot the ZTK21:45
hannoschwe talked about that. it needs to be there. it will be dropped for a 1.1 release21:45
j-w_but then the ZTK tests might not work21:46
j-w_so we need to pin a version that we know works21:46
TresEquisthis is a case where the "fourth stakeholder" is important21:46
hannoschthe ZTK releases are only there to serve the three frameworks. so it makes sense to restrict it to match the frameworks needs21:46
TresEquisthe ZTK exists to serve the three frameworks *and* the wider community21:46
TresEquisthat pin is harmful21:47
hannoschjust don't use the ZTK releases and roll your own index. that's what I suspect all non-framework people do21:47
TresEquispinning *any* of the non-ZTK dependencies to specific versions (as opposed to >= versions for older, unsupported stuff) makes the ZTK less useful21:48
j-w_TresEquis: I must be slow, my apologies, but can you explain again why it is harmful or less useful?21:48
j-w_I really try to understand how it limits you21:48
TresEquisj-w_: the "dependencies" list is there for automated testing21:48
TresEquisbut pushing them into the index makes them appear to be part of the ZTK21:49
j-w_please stop right there, I have aquestion about that21:49
hannoschok. I propose we just ditch the index then21:49
TresEquisand makes it harder for people to see that they should be installing those packages from elsewhere21:49
j-w_if you use a custom index that does not have a particular dependency, how would you, when installing, resolve that dep?21:49
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j-w_(I would not be against ditching the index BTW)21:50
TresEquisj-w_: I use easy_install to find and test the versions of packages that I support, and put those versions into a project-specific  index21:50
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j-w_so you do not actually ned the ZTK index21:51
j-w_you use your own21:51
hannoschccomb: any opinion on ditching the "index" from our ZTK releases?21:51
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hannoschthat thing here:
j-w_so, the ZTK index would not limit you, do I understand that so far correctly?21:51
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TresEquisthose dependencies are in that file mostly to allow buildout to reuse the list, right?21:51
TresEquisbut the "real" ZTK versions list is only the items "above" '# Dependencies'21:52
j-w_the items above #deps is managed under the ZTK umbrella21:53
TresEquisI think we should publish *that* list separately, and find some way to include / extend it in the "drive the buildbots" set, which is private21:53
ccombI'm not sure the index is of any interest if we have a versions list21:53
j-w_but that means grok has to redo the deps part of the list21:53
hannoschccomb: right. it's of no use to any of the frameworks and it seems to be questionable for direct users, so I'd say we just don't publish it21:54
TresEquisit could still be shared by the three frameworks21:54
TresEquishannosch: you still need to document how to get the packages installed for non-buildout purposes21:54
TresEquiswhich may mean just publishing the correct 'find-links' URLS21:54
TresEquisor publish a single page which has only those links on it21:55
hannoschTresEquis: I'll bring that up on zope-dev. let's see if there's actually people with that need21:55
TresEquisthe problem with the current ztk-versions.cfg is that its name implies one thing, and its contents another21:55
j-w_I guess we were very much focussed on using buildout21:56
TresEquiswe need a way to publish a list of the "only the ZTK" versions somehow21:56
TresEquisideally in a way that the buildbots consume and verify21:56
TresEquisI don't know if buildout's "versions" bit can be extended21:56
hannoschwe are focussed on the needs of the three frameworks, as we are representing those. none of us really knows what the mysterious "fourth stakeholder" actually wants21:56
hannoschI was guessing the index we published would be useful. Tres keeps telling us it's not and it's even harmful21:57
j-w_grok wouldn;t use it21:57
j-w_as it needs other packages too21:57
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TresEquisI think the harm comes from the extra policy you've added21:57
j-w_so if it were to use an index, it would make its own21:58
hannoschso I'd just not publish it until we understand what would be useful and get that confirmed from multiple people21:58
TresEquisan index consisting *only* of the actual packages could still be useful21:58
j-w_I still don't get that21:58
j-w_the index is incomplete21:58
j-w_and then you cannot complete a easy_install "something"21:58
TresEquiseasy_instal -i zope.interface21:58
TresEquisyou can if you satisfy the requirements *first*21:59
j-w_and how about a package that needs the ZODB21:59
j-w_so, that's what I meant with amnuall21:59
j-w_now I understand21:59
j-w_I thought there was some mechanism somewhere somehow21:59
TresEquisif the easy_install failed to find the depencency, then you install the dependency and retry21:59
TresEquisthis is how you build the "custom index" in the first place22:00
j-w_that makes me think of the old rpm days22:00
j-w_and how glad I was with apt-get...22:00
j-w_but anyway22:00
j-w_my use case is different and I do understand now22:00
j-w_thanks for explaining22:00
hannoschj-w_: should we officially end our ZTK meeting?22:01
j-w_hannosch: yes22:01
j-w_ccomb: sorry you couldn;'t make it earlier22:01
j-w_I'll post the notes again22:01
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j-w_next meeting?22:01
hannoschnext tuesday before the zope-dev meeting?22:01
ccombI'll start to be much more available from saturday22:02
* j-w_ checks agenda22:02
j-w_next tuesday is ok for me22:03
hannoschok. good. ccomb?22:03
ccombok for me too22:03
hannoschyes! great!22:03
hannoschwe are awesome :)22:04
ccombwhich means22:04
j-w_TresEquis: does compoze deal with binary eggs for different platforms?22:04
j-w_hannosch: :-)22:04
TresEquisbinary eggs are anathema ;)22:04
TresEquissince the only platform they are remotely useful for is one I never use or deploy to22:04
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hannoschand Windows eggs are really useful for the rest of us :)22:05
hannoschccomb: 16:00 sounds good22:05
j-w_it is22:05
j-w_hmm, no football today22:06
j-w_what should I do now with the rest of the evening ;)22:06
ccombj-w_: play the vuvuzela22:07
hannoschccomb: btw. we decided to release a first alpha, same way I did that dev release (minus the index) today. complain now or be silent :)22:07
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ccombno pb for alpha22:08
hannoschcool :)22:08
hannoschthanks for the meeting! :)22:08
j-w_thanks indeed22:08
j-w_see you next week22:08
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CIA-94hannosch * r114025 zopetoolkit/index.rst: Update install instructions22:23
CIA-94hannosch * r114026 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt zope/z2release/ Disable the index building for a ZTK release.22:23
CIA-94hannosch * r114027 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt Prepare zope.z2release 0.5.22:23
CIA-94hannosch * r114028 /zope.z2release/tags/0.5: Tagged zope.z2release 0.5.22:23
CIA-94hannosch * r114029 zope.z2release/ (CHANGES.txt Bump version22:23
CIA-94hannosch * r114030 zope2index/buildout.cfg: Update z2release22:23
CIA-94hannosch * r114031 /zopetoolkit/tags/1.0a1: Tag ZTK 1.0a122:23
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CIA-94hannosch * r114032 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg): Update to ZTK 1.0a122:36
CIA-94hannosch * r114033 /zopetoolkit/tags/1.0dev-r113891: Removed temporary testing tag22:36
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CIA-94asmith * r114034 zc.ngi/src/zc/ngi/README.txt: fix typo23:46
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