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| CIA-7 | srichter * r116041 z3c.setuptools_mercurial/ (5 files in 2 dirs): | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| CIA-7 | - Bug: Improve the Buildout support. Thanks to Gary Poster for helping | 00:16 |
| CIA-7 | me out. | 00:16 |
| CIA-7 | - Get ready for release. | 00:16 |
| CIA-7 | srichter * r116042 /z3c.setuptools_mercurial/tags/1.1.1: Create a release tag. | 00:16 |
| CIA-7 | srichter * r116043 z3c.setuptools_mercurial/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): vb | 00:16 |
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| CIA-7 | jim * r116044 ZODB/src/ (CHANGES.txt ZEO/ClientStorage.py ZEO/cache.py): | 01:27 |
| CIA-7 | Bugs fixed | 01:27 |
| CIA-7 | ---------- | 01:27 |
| CIA-7 | - Shutting down a process while committing a transaction could cause | 01:27 |
| CIA-7 | ZEO client caches to have invalid data. This, in turn caused stale | 01:27 |
| CIA-7 | data to remain in the cache until it was updated. | 01:27 |
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| gw | hi... quick question around with the zope.interface or zope.component packages. Is it possible to find all Interfaces an object is adaptable to? | 03:20 |
| mcdonc_ | gw: http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html#getadapters | 03:37 |
| mcdonc_ | not quite what you asked i guess | 03:38 |
| mcdonc_ | http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html#adaptedby may help | 03:38 |
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| gw | mcdonc_: thanks, I'v found a solution... it's not very efficient, but it works.... I had a look at plone.customerise.... it asks the global site manager for all registered adapters.... | 04:12 |
| mcdonc_ | gw: good.. sorry, those were guesses | 04:14 |
| gw | mcdonc_: all what I do now is check the required attribute for each registration, and if it fits my criteria (i check len=1 and interface directly provided by object), and then take the provided attribute of the registration... | 04:14 |
| gw | mcdonc_: no problem....I actually prefer a try than general silence :)... thanks a lot (it's an interesting site :) ) | 04:15 |
| mcdonc_ | sounds reasonable | 04:15 |
| mcdonc_ | yes, that book is a good resource | 04:16 |
| gw | does the book follow current development? | 04:16 |
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| mcdonc_ | gw: not really, but there isn't much in zope.component anyway | 04:26 |
| mcdonc_ | it's "done" more or less | 04:26 |
| gw | yes that's true... but from time to time there is this little detail..... nothing major... shouldn't be a problem... | 04:27 |
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| mcdonc_ | gw: yes... for those cases, i read the source | 04:35 |
| mcdonc_ | that document is pretty accurate though | 04:36 |
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| mcdonc_ | although lots of times its just easier to pull up the source anyway | 04:36 |
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| gw | hehe... true....the old saying: grep is your friend :) | 04:52 |
| mcdonc_ | zope has a longstanding culture of rtsl | 04:55 |
| mcdonc_ | i'm happy to have been a part of it, now gimme the docs ;-) | 04:55 |
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| gw | that's maybe one of the drawbacks of python... it's not so well suited for literal programming... or it's advantage, that it's just not that necessary as with other languages :) | 04:58 |
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| mcdonc_ | sphinx makes it tolerable these days | 05:05 |
| mcdonc_ | (to do the docs, i mean) | 05:05 |
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| mcdonc_ | before sphinx, it was a wasteland | 05:06 |
| mcdonc_ | (and most of the zope code predates sphinx) | 05:06 |
| gw | sphinx is really nice... yes | 05:06 |
| mcdonc_ | i'm a sphinx fanbody | 05:07 |
| mcdonc_ | fanboy | 05:07 |
| gw | however the zope attempt to serve doc-strings as documentation pages was rather nice too... (the majro idea) | 05:07 |
| gw | i think in zope3 it was ++doc++ or something like that... | 05:08 |
| mcdonc_ | yes, srichter added that iirc | 05:09 |
| mcdonc_ | (he of "zope3 content management" or so) | 05:10 |
| mcdonc_ | i'm mostly a sphinx fan because it allowed me to write and publish a tech book | 05:11 |
| gw | nice... | 05:11 |
| mcdonc_ | it does require some attitude adjustment | 05:11 |
| mcdonc_ | but mostly for the better | 05:11 |
| gw | I really did like the literal programming in haskell..... you write your document in latex, and also have (more or less) readable source code..... | 05:12 |
| gw | mixes really well.... | 05:12 |
| gw | and did not need any adjustment from both worlds.... really impressive.... | 05:12 |
| mcdonc_ | i'm ignorant of haskell, but i believe it | 05:12 |
| gw | it was a curious excurs for me :) | 05:13 |
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| gw | and I had to write a paper.... so I got both done at once..... :) | 05:13 |
| mcdonc_ | good old help(someobject) is also useful | 05:13 |
| gw | that was probably the inspiration for zope's ++doc++ (and predecessor) | 05:14 |
| mcdonc_ | docstrings are a great idea | 05:15 |
| mcdonc_ | (or at least the casual spelling of same) | 05:16 |
| mcdonc_ | shame interfaces never caught on really | 05:16 |
| mcdonc_ | they are also useful docs if maintained | 05:16 |
| mcdonc_ | but pdb tells all | 05:17 |
| gw | :)... in most cases they are ok (I reall like them a s quick example in the code).... and most people put them into separate documents if they are used for extensive testing documentation. | 05:17 |
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| gw | I think it's time to improve the standard pdb interface a bit..... :) | 05:18 |
| gw | (iirc this was part of some google code project wasn't it?) | 05:18 |
| mcdonc_ | i'm not sure | 05:19 |
| mcdonc_ | i'm pretty used to the spartan-ness at this point, but i know there are various wrappers for it | 05:19 |
| mcdonc_ | wingide has one | 05:19 |
| gw | ipdb should work too :) | 05:19 |
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| mcdonc_ | i think if anybody changed the standard ui, there would be an insurrection ;-) | 05:22 |
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| gw | could well be :) | 05:23 |
| mcdonc_ | as thomas friedman says, "typewriters! typewriters! typewriters!" | 05:24 |
| mcdonc_ | (insert defuct technology as required) | 05:24 |
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| gw | I mean the kiss principle is almost always the most appropriate choice.. but... sometimes it would be nice when it's not too simple :) | 05:32 |
| gw | well... we'll see what happens.... I am sure the standard interface will not survive another 10 years :) | 05:32 |
| gw | at least not as default | 05:33 |
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| mcdonc_ | we'll all have flying cars by then anyway | 05:37 |
| mcdonc_ | it wont matter | 05:37 |
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| bhagat | Is there a way to view & edit a ZPT file in ZMI ?, the .zpt file which is inside a file based zope product. | 08:31 |
| bhagat | like obj.manage_addDTMLMethod(id,title,file), this will add a DTML file inside ZMI. which is the equivalent for zpt to do the same? | 08:33 |
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| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116045 Products.ZSQLMethods/CHANGES.txt: Whitespace | 10:02 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116046 Products.ZSQLMethods/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Prepare Products.ZSQLMethods 2.13.3. | 10:02 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116047 /Products.ZSQLMethods/tags/2.13.3: Tagged Products.ZSQLMethods 2.13.3. | 10:03 |
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| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116045 Products.ZSQLMethods/CHANGES.txt: Whitespace | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116046 Products.ZSQLMethods/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Prepare Products.ZSQLMethods 2.13.3. | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116047 /Products.ZSQLMethods/tags/2.13.3: Tagged Products.ZSQLMethods 2.13.3. | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116048 Products.ZSQLMethods/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Bump version | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch 2.12 * r116049 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg): Update to Products.ZSQLMethods = 2.13.3 | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch 2.12 * r116050 Zope/doc/CHANGES.rst: Punctuation | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116051 Acquisition/ (CHANGES.txt src/Acquisition/Acquisition.h): LP 623665: Fixed typo in Acquisition.h. | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116052 Acquisition/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Prepare Acquisition 2.13.4. | 10:24 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116053 /Acquisition/tags/2.13.4: Tagged Acquisition 2.13.4. | 10:25 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116054 Acquisition/ (CHANGES.txt setup.py): Bump version | 10:25 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch 2.12 * r116055 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg): Acquisition = 2.13.4 | 10:25 |
| CIA-7 | hannosch * r116056 Zope/ (doc/CHANGES.rst versions.cfg): Merged c116055 from 2.12 branch | 10:25 |
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| CIA-7 | ctheune * r116057 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100824.rst: update report for last week | 11:18 |
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| CIA-7 | ctheune * r116058 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/ (zope-dev-20100831.rst index.rst): add agenda for today | 11:33 |
| CIA-7 | ctheune * r116059 /zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/ (archive.rst index.rst): | 11:33 |
| CIA-7 | add agenda for today, put old meetings into archive to save space on the | 11:33 |
| CIA-7 | frontpage | 11:33 |
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| CIA-7 | wichert * r116060 Products.GenericSetup/Products/GenericSetup/www/sutCompare.zpt: Fix XML syntax error | 13:01 |
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| bhagat | obj.manage_addDTMLMethod(id,title,file), this will add a DTML document in ZMI. which is the equivalent for zpt to do the same? | 13:10 |
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| Moo^_^ | does unrestrictedTraverse() support ".." travering to parent? | 15:07 |
| bhagat | manage_addDTMLMethod for DTML what the equivalent for zpt ? | 15:10 |
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| __mac__ | manage_addPageTemplateForm would have been the answer | 15:33 |
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| planetzopebot | Personal: Back to the city life (..: hannosch :..) http://blog.hannosch.eu/2010/08/personal-back-to-city-life.html | 16:04 |
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| CIA-7 | jim jim-readCurrent * r116061 ZODB/src/ZODB/ (Connection.py tests/testConnection.py interfaces.py): Fixed the signature for checkCurrentSerialInTransaction. | 17:52 |
| * Charlie_X looks expectantly | 18:00 | |
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| Charlie_X | I've got biscuits, you know. | 18:00 |
| Charlie_X | Theuni1: here? | 18:03 |
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| agroszer | this is going to be a 1-on-1? | 18:07 |
| do3cc | he | 18:07 |
| * Charlie_X waves at everyone | 18:07 | |
| do3cc | so us three I guess? | 18:07 |
| Charlie_X | I suppose things are spoiled with Hanno's pre-emptive e-mail | 18:08 |
| Charlie_X | Looks like it. | 18:08 |
| Charlie_X | Looking at the agenda - anything to say about supporting Python 2.7? | 18:08 |
| do3cc | zodb does not support it yet | 18:09 |
| do3cc | at least under windows | 18:09 |
| do3cc | afpy has some testrunners already, so people can look there for failures | 18:10 |
| Charlie_X | This would sound like a windows problem to me. We've been building "reward" on Python 2.7 + ZODB without problems. | 18:10 |
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| do3cc | maybe | 18:11 |
| do3cc | we will have tests for zodb on linux too. Soonishly | 18:12 |
| Charlie_X | Of course, that's not a real answer. I guess the question for the ZTK team is when Python 2.7 should be supported. 1.1 sounds reasonable for this. | 18:12 |
| do3cc | yes | 18:13 |
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| Charlie_X | Next - abandoned projects. | 18:13 |
| Charlie_X | I think this is really something for the summit but your ideas, please. | 18:13 |
| do3cc | can you elaborate? | 18:15 |
| Charlie_X | I think we might want to formalise what constitutes an abandoned project which allows us to drop it (from the ZTK or other Zope project). | 18:16 |
| * agroszer looking at winbot/zodb | 18:16 | |
| Charlie_X | But I think this implies that we define what projects should be included in the first place. The less we include, the less we have to maintain. | 18:17 |
| do3cc | I think everybody will be pissed if we make the list very small soonishly | 18:17 |
| do3cc | no not everybody, but some | 18:17 |
| do3cc | That might actually be an indicator | 18:18 |
| do3cc | if nobody objects, remove it | 18:18 |
| Charlie_X | That's the sort of thing. | 18:18 |
| do3cc | I was thinking of saying that if it breaks tests for a long time, it should be removed, but I guess people will fix breaking tests. | 18:18 |
| Charlie_X | But we should also set criteria for inclusion and maintenance. | 18:18 |
| do3cc | Which does not mean, it is maintained | 18:19 |
| Charlie_X | Some stuff probably doesn't need much maintenance. | 18:19 |
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| do3cc | Well, but there should be somebody who understands the meaning of the code between the line | 18:19 |
| Charlie_X | Sure | 18:20 |
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| agroszer | like z3c.testsetup | 18:20 |
| agroszer | BB tests fail on it | 18:20 |
| Charlie_X | Projects for future inclusion should come with good documentation and tests. | 18:20 |
| agroszer | and noone answers my mail | 18:20 |
| do3cc | Lets focus on exclusion fist | 18:20 |
| Charlie_X | I think the two are related and it's better to formulate a policy for inclusion which will help work out how to deal with "abandoned" stuff. | 18:21 |
| do3cc | ok, with that in mind, I have an idea | 18:21 |
| Charlie_X | Which is why I think this is a topic for the summit. It gets too ad hoc otherwise. | 18:21 |
| agroszer | the policy is about staying in | 18:22 |
| do3cc | how about creating bars, and slowly raising bars for existing packages for staying included | 18:22 |
| Charlie_X | agroszer: some of the stuff that is "in" probably shouldn't be. | 18:22 |
| * agroszer already sees the flame | 18:22 | |
| Charlie_X | do3cc: yes, that's the sort of thing. | 18:22 |
| * Charlie_X is made out of Teflon | 18:22 | |
| do3cc | we make tight requirements, like in kyoto | 18:23 |
| do3cc | reduce non tested lines of code by 2% until 2020 | 18:23 |
| Charlie_X | Something like that. | 18:24 |
| agroszer | you got to measyre that first ;-) | 18:24 |
| do3cc | I believe that the actual bars should be discussion in public and be defined per package | 18:24 |
| agroszer | s/y/u | 18:24 |
| Charlie_X | I guess if we can start adding some value to test results that will get easier. And once I get my nagging script to point at people that might encourage a greater sense of responsibility. | 18:24 |
| do3cc | measuring that is easy | 18:24 |
| do3cc | How can one measure documentation improvement? | 18:25 |
| do3cc | zope.component has many lines of documentation, but its really just tests | 18:25 |
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| do3cc | I have a greasemonkey script that hides testcode on pypi, then the documentation looks like a joke | 18:26 |
| Charlie_X | Measuring documentation is more difficult but you've just hit the nail on the head. | 18:26 |
| do3cc | did I? ;-) | 18:26 |
| Charlie_X | I think so, yes. | 18:27 |
| do3cc | Maybe counting the documentation to code ratio in checkins helps | 18:27 |
| Charlie_X | The documentation should make some sense without tests. | 18:27 |
| do3cc | Hmm | 18:28 |
| do3cc | we might refactor the packages and put clear test "documentation" in different files | 18:29 |
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| do3cc | this then gets ignored for documentation to code ratio | 18:29 |
| do3cc | Then we can start measuring loc/lod and define a whished ratio for each package | 18:30 |
| Charlie_X | Start with a model package that others should strive to emulate. | 18:30 |
| Charlie_X | Documentation after the fact is always going to be a problem, if not the problem. | 18:30 |
| do3cc | honestly, I feel this will make ztk very small any way | 18:30 |
| Charlie_X | That's a good thing. | 18:30 |
| Charlie_X | ™ | 18:31 |
| do3cc | so, whos gonna document zope.component? | 18:31 |
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| Charlie_X | Good question. | 18:31 |
| Charlie_X | As I said I think this is something for the summit. | 18:31 |
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| Charlie_X | So, pretty much out of time. | 18:32 |
| do3cc | I propose we ask on the mailing list | 18:32 |
| agroszer | that gives a flame | 18:33 |
| agroszer | for sure | 18:33 |
| do3cc | what would people want as requirements to stay in the ztk list | 18:33 |
| agroszer | and no results | 18:33 |
| CIA-7 | jim jim-readCurrent * r116062 ZODB/src/ (ZODB/dbmStorage.py CHANGES.txt): - Removed untested unsupported dbmstorage fossil. | 18:33 |
| Charlie_X | agroszer: never know till you try. I'll drop an e-mail to the list. | 18:33 |
| agroszer | something like this was already a topic as I remember | 18:34 |
| agroszer | around the time Martijn "quit" | 18:34 |
| Charlie_X | agroszer: you also have your MS developer licence now as well, don't you? | 18:34 |
| agroszer | yah | 18:34 |
| do3cc | agroszer: on the other side, if you try to avoid the discussion, people might ignore you because they believe you want to mandate something to them over their head | 18:34 |
| Charlie_X | Some things are worth repeating. | 18:34 |
| agroszer | ok, repeat | 18:34 |
| agroszer | Charlie_X, yup I got the licence | 18:35 |
| agroszer | you can put the x there ;-) | 18:35 |
| Charlie_X | We'll have a few good heads at the summit to discuss stuff but maybe starting the ball rolling isn't a bad idea. | 18:35 |
| Charlie_X | agroszer: I'll review posts from the end of last year to see I don't raise too many of the wrong issues. | 18:35 |
| Charlie_X | Okay, thank your for your time and input. | 18:37 |
| do3cc | thank you for being the mediator | 18:37 |
| agroszer | thx, till next week | 18:37 |
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| CIA-7 | jim jim-readCurrent * r116063 ZODB/src/ZODB/interfaces.py: Fixed interface. | 18:49 |
| CIA-7 | jim jim-readCurrent * r116064 ZODB/src/ZODB/tests/testConnection.py: Use read conflict errors. | 18:49 |
| CIA-7 | jim jim-readCurrent * r116065 ZODB/src/ZODB/POSException.py: Be more flexible about arguments. | 18:49 |
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| CIA-7 | menesis * r116066 van.pydeb/van/pydeb/__init__.py: | 19:04 |
| CIA-7 | Change comment to state that dependency on namespace packages is needed | 19:04 |
| CIA-7 | rather than it can be removed later. | 19:04 |
| planetzopebot | Plone Conference 2010 Talks Submission Deadline Extended (Plone News) http://plone.org/events/conferences/bristol-2010/plone-conference-2010-talks-submission-deadline-extended | 19:04 |
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| CIA-7 | jim jim-readCurrent * r116067 ZODB/src/ZODB/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Updated checkCurrentSerialInTransaction for the basic storages. | 22:52 |
| CIA-7 | jim jim-readCurrent * r116068 ZODB/src/ZEO/ (5 files): | 22:52 |
| CIA-7 | Updated checkCurrentSerialInTransaction for ZEO. | 22:52 |
| CIA-7 | Also did some storage server implementation cleanup, removing some | 22:52 |
| CIA-7 | dups and folding a small module into StorageServer.py. | 22:52 |
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