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| dixond | ok folks - pop quiz; in RelStorage, the Oracle commit-lock-id - does this have to be an int, or can it be an arbitrary string? | 05:51 |
|---|---|---|
| dixond | what are the limitations/constraints? | 05:51 |
| kosh | not a clue at all | 05:51 |
| dixond | heh | 05:52 |
| kosh | I have not used Relstorage in production | 05:52 |
| kosh | when I did testing on it with postgres I found it no faster then ZEO but more unreliable under high load so I decided not to use it | 05:52 |
| kosh | relstorage is faster then ZEO in 2.12 and under though by a lot | 05:52 |
| kosh | but ZEO in 2.13 got a MAJOR speed boost | 05:52 |
| dixond | yeah, unfortunately my driver is HA :-/ otherwise I'd just stick with ZEO - it's worked great for us for years. | 05:53 |
| kosh | I had 4 zopes talking to ZEO/Relstorage and I found that when I I had about 1000 simul connections across the zopes that ZEO completed every tranasction | 05:53 |
| kosh | I ended up with Relstorage and postgres not completing some transaction and if I made the test long enough postgres would just stop accepting all connections | 05:54 |
| dixond | LOL ouch. | 05:54 |
| kosh | it would show no errors of any kind, it just would not accept any connections | 05:54 |
| kosh | so I tried to use pgpool and pgool2 and both of them had the same problem | 05:54 |
| kosh | and when I consulted docs on both of those that was a known issue | 05:54 |
| dixond | know issue? holy hell, that's a doozy of a 'known issue' with no fix... | 05:55 |
| kosh | so you had to install a heartbeat program that would autorestart pgpool or pgpool2 when they died since the devs had no idea why they died | 05:55 |
| dixond | 'oops, I'm too busy' | 05:55 |
| kosh | but at least then you did not have to restart postgres | 05:55 |
| dixond | heartbeat sucks. | 05:55 |
| kosh | so to replace ZEO with something that would be as reliable would involve postgres + pgpool2 + heartbeat and still not run as fast | 05:55 |
| kosh | at that point I decided reliability did not really matter that much beyoned what ZEO did already | 05:56 |
| kosh | I make backups once per day and could do once per hour or less if that was important and restore that in a few minutes | 05:56 |
| kosh | I like the rackspace cloud servers | 05:56 |
| dixond | yeah. The dumb thing is I have *never* had ZEO die. Never. ... But it's all about 'perception' of risk in this scenario :-/ | 05:56 |
| kosh | yeah I have not had ZEO or Zope crash on me in years | 05:57 |
| * dixond likes ZEO a lot | 05:57 | |
| kosh | they are the most stable software I have worked with by a long shot | 05:57 |
| kosh | and the security track record is amazing | 05:57 |
| dixond | yup | 05:57 |
| kosh | most other systems have more exploits in a week then zope has had in the last 10 years combined! | 05:57 |
| kosh | and the zope devs have taken reliability extremely seriously | 05:58 |
| kosh | and with 2.13 ZEO got an insane speedup | 05:58 |
| kosh | right now I have 2.13 ZEO and I am moving all my binary stuff to blobs for an even bigger gain | 05:58 |
| kosh | after I get all of that done I am going to test zlibstorage which is supposed to give another nice gain | 05:58 |
| kosh | it just seems to match the reliability of ZEO with relstorage requires a lot of moving parts that all have to work correctly and that don't do that in reality | 05:59 |
| dixond | zlibstorage - zips everything by default inside ZODB? | 05:59 |
| kosh | on a record by record basis | 05:59 |
| dixond | cool | 05:59 |
| kosh | it does not compress records that don't gain from compression | 05:59 |
| dixond | very. cool. | 05:59 |
| dixond | less IO FTW | 05:59 |
| kosh | and it turns out that since cpu time is so much vastly faster then disk io time that it really makes a speed difference | 05:59 |
| kosh | since you lower IO and trade it for a tiny ammount of cpu time | 06:00 |
| dixond | exactly. very nice. | 06:00 |
| kosh | even on a pentium 60 that was a good tradeoff (os/2 supported compressed exes for a huge gain) | 06:00 |
| kosh | on a modern chip that is an insanely great tradeoff | 06:00 |
| dixond | he | 06:00 |
| dixond | h | 06:00 |
| kosh | so you move all blobs to the filesystem and then compress all your remaining objects | 06:00 |
| kosh | and you still have the insane reliability of zope + zeo | 06:01 |
| dixond | heh - just answered my question the old fashioned way: Try It And See (Error: invalid literal for long(): shared-edit-main) | 06:01 |
| kosh | I can see why stuff like postgres or mysql talk about HA, they need it! | 06:02 |
| dixond | yeah, they really do | 06:02 |
| dixond | ZEO just never dies. it's a rock. | 06:02 |
| kosh | I talked with one old friend recently and a mysql db they had needed about 4 hours worth of repairs every single day from corruption | 06:02 |
| dixond | woah. that's crazy. holy hell. | 06:03 |
| kosh | she knew it was a problem but money was not there to fix it and the vendor told them to screw off | 06:03 |
| kosh | they paid a huge ammount of money for the app and the vendor would not support them at all | 06:03 |
| kosh | and they had run out of money to get the app rebuilt | 06:03 |
| kosh | I probably have not spent 4 hours recoving data from a corrupt ZEO in the last 4 years much less 4 hours per day | 06:04 |
| dixond | no. the only time I have ever spent with Zope was when I buggered a couple transactions up and truncated the DB to fix. And that was a no-brainer. | 06:06 |
| kosh | apparently zope also does something completely novel and amazing compared to php before making a release | 06:09 |
| kosh | they actually run the unit test code to make sure it passes before releasing | 06:09 |
| kosh | you know that recent php security exploit for the crypto functions | 06:09 |
| kosh | their test suite caught that problem along with a few hundred other problems | 06:09 |
| kosh | but they NEVER ran the test suite before making a release! | 06:09 |
| dixond | you have got to be kidding. ugh. | 06:10 |
| kosh | no that one is not a joke at all | 06:10 |
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| djc | http://paste.lisp.org/display/124364 | 12:00 |
| djc | any hints on how that could happen? | 12:00 |
| djc | (when trying to run the test suite on zope.interface) | 12:01 |
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| djc | it seems to get the installed zope.interface instead of the one being tested, but I don't get why | 12:01 |
| bigkevmcd | djc: what version is on your python path | 12:04 |
| bigkevmcd | djc: where are you running the tests from? what's in that directory? | 12:04 |
| djc | bigkevmcd: I'm running it inside Gentoo's packaging system | 12:06 |
| djc | sys.path looks like this: ['/var/tmp/portage/net-zope/zope-interface-3.7.0/work/zope.interface-3.7.0/src', '/var/tmp/portage/net-zope/zope-interface-3.7.0/work/zope.interface-3.7.0', '/home/djc/src/python-spidermonkey', '/home/djc/src/couchdb-python', '/var/tmp/portage/net-zope/zope-interface-3.7.0/work/zope.interface-3.7.0/build-2.7/lib.linux-x86_64-2.7', '/usr/lib64/python27.zip', '/usr/lib64/python2.7', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib64/python2. | 12:06 |
| bigkevmcd | I don't know anything about Gentoo's packaging system, I haven't looked at Gentoo for a very, very long time | 12:06 |
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| djc | then in that loop slightly before the failure, it picks up zope from the correct path, but it uses zope.interface from site-packages | 12:07 |
| djc | y | 12:07 |
| djc | OBJ <module 'zope' from '/var/tmp/portage/net-zope/zope-interface-3.7.0/work/zope.interface-3.7.0/src/zope/__init__.py'> PART interface | 12:07 |
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| djc | OBJ <module 'zope.interface' from '/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/zope/interface/__init__.pyc'> PART tests | 12:07 |
| vortec | hi, packing a Data.fs takes some time - is it safe to let zope running and let users make changes to objects in the meantime? | 12:08 |
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| betabug-mb | vortec: shouldn't make a difference | 12:14 |
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| vortec | betabug-mb: can you explain or do you have a link which explains what exactly happens when you pack a database? | 12:21 |
| betabug-mb | hmmm, it goes through the Data.fs and rebuilds it into a new one, using only the latest revisions of objects | 12:22 |
| betabug-mb | dunno if there is a better description out there | 12:22 |
| betabug-mb | s/if/where/ | 12:22 |
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| kosh | packing a database is pretty much like a garbage collection run in java | 15:04 |
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| brguedes | hi everybody | 15:09 |
| brguedes | someone can tell me, if it is possible to get the zope version in command line | 15:10 |
| brguedes | for zope 2 | 15:10 |
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| kosh | hmm | 15:19 |
| kosh | nothing is sprining to my mind on that one other then looking at the event.log file and seeing what version it puts in when it starts up | 15:21 |
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| brguedes | kosh: ok thanls | 15:25 |
| brguedes | thanks | 15:25 |
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| dixond | ok folks, deep technical ZODB question coming | 16:47 |
| dixond | let's say I have a ZODB with a bunch of stuff in it mount inside Zope as '/my-stuff' | 16:47 |
| dixond | now lets say I change the zope.conf to make the mount point '/other-stuff' | 16:47 |
| dixond | my observation is that the DB contents are no longer visible | 16:48 |
| dixond | 1) is this expected? | 16:48 |
| dixond | 2) is the only solution to use aliasing inside zope.conf, or is there some other way? | 16:48 |
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| dixond | Conceptually, surely there is a way to 'cutnpaste' the content under the original mount path to a new monut path without having to use the aliasing juju | 17:11 |
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| dixond | hmmm, I could possibly also open the storage manually and just rename the top-level (mountpoint) object? | 17:30 |
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| dixond | hrm. it seems that mountpoints don't support the rename operation. | 17:34 |
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| dixond | even more hmmm. why is 'meta_type' attribute required before cut/paste will work? | 17:36 |
| dixond | oh ugh. | 17:37 |
| dixond | this is totally just about permissions. | 17:37 |
| dixond | so... reading the code looks like I can just do this 'by hand' as it were... | 17:39 |
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| dixond | hohohoh! | 17:42 |
| dixond | and just like magic, it worked. | 17:42 |
| dixond | wooo-weeeeee | 17:42 |
| dixond | all my data just magically appeared in the instance using the new mointpoint. | 17:43 |
| dixond | best. thing. ever. | 17:43 |
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| planetzopebot | Last Chance for Discounts on Training at Plone Conference 2011 (Plone News) http://plone.org/news/plone-conf-2011-training-last-chance-for-discounts | 21:08 |
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| kosh | hail weirdos! | 21:29 |
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