IRC log of #zope for Thursday, 2011-12-08

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mitchell`offdoes anyone check the email address?04:13
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mcdoncmitchell`off: i see the messages coming in but i'm on the security response list out of legacy and i dont really do much with zope any more05:04
mcdoncbut the messages are coming thru05:04
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mitchell`ah, thanks mcdonc12:30
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eriolssiHi to all, is there please someone who could give me advice?12:44
betabugeriolssi: maybe... but only if you ask a question12:49
eriolssiOK, i try it: I had an intranet webpages on zope2.7 which I... accidentally removed. so: I installed zope2.10 but the intranet instance is returning errors12:51
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eriolssiI need to get it work with zope2.10, I cant get back zope2.7 - is it possilbe? I know there is problems with outdated PRoducts and CMF I guess12:52
mitchell`eriolssi: could you paste an example of the errors to ?12:52
betabugI'd say install 2.7 again12:52
eriolssiBut I am complete zope newbie and dont know the dependencies with plone CMF etc..12:52
eriolssiyes, errors are here:12:52
mitchell`hmm. that paste thing doesn't have #zope.12:52
mitchell`lol. public Wave in the topic.12:52
eriolssithis is erorr webpage is returning12:53
betabugmitchell`: yeah, we're *retro* here12:53
eriolssihere is log:
betabugeriolssi: install 2.7, these errors are not going to be resolved easily12:54
betabugthis is a plone site?12:54
eriolssiI wantet to instlal zope2.7 back again, but I have issues with python2.3.. I cant get mad with packages on this linux - its server in production12:54
betabugplone is very much linked to a certain zope version12:54
eriolssiI guess - thing is I dont really know and old Admin isnt working here anymore12:54
betabugthere is no easy way to get this to work on 2.10, it needs a migratio12:55
eriolssihere is the list of Products that webinstance used on zope2.7:
betabugit's plone all right12:55
eriolssiok, is there a way to migrate it to 2.10? I have the whole instance directory backed up12:55
betabugthere is a way, but no easy, fast, simple way12:56
betabugI would suggest to install python 2.3 locally (not as root) from source12:56
betabugto get the instance back running12:56
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eriolssiI thought maybe If I will update ALL the used products it will solve it... so why exactly im getting these errors? Which part is incompatible,12:57
betabugand then investigate in a plone migration (e.e. ask on #plone, or hire a plone expert)12:57
betabugeriolssi: your (old) plone version is compatible only with that (old) zope version12:57
betabugupgrading it is a bit more complicated than just updating the products, because the data structure has changed (a lot)12:58
betabugbesides, Zope 2.10 is not the latest Zope, so you don't gain that much12:58
eriolssiOh.. I know, but I have old lenny here and updating is not an option... So, installing python2.3 locally - how do you mean that?12:59
betabugyou can install from source, in userspace12:59
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betabugand then change the "zope instance" to use that python interpreter13:00
eriolssiIm afraid I dont know how to do that install part. how to change path to python I know..13:00
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mitchell`eriolssi: saerch for collective python buildout13:00
betabugmitchell`: come on!13:00
eriolssiand trying to install pyrthon2.3 from deb package with dpkg is dangerous?13:00
mitchell`it will build and install different versions of python for you from source in a safe way13:00
mitchell`betabug: ?13:01
betabugmitchell`: this will no way get him a plone that can migrate his stuff magically just like that13:01
betabugmitchell`: ah, ok13:01
mitchell`betabug: to build Py2.413:01
mitchell`it's early ;)13:02
betabugeriolssi: if you can install python 2.3 from a package, it's ok - but you said you couldn't do that13:02
eriolssii can TRY, but im worried it will mess up the system and so..13:02
eriolssiaptitude tells me that python2.3 cant be installed13:03
betabugwell, if you are worried about messing up the system, go for a local install of python with `configure && make && make install`, giving it a local path13:03
betabugin a user directory13:03
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eriolssiok - so as as user (not root), in a local path, the full command will be "configure && make && make install" and?13:04
betabughmm, no, you will likely need some options for `configure`13:05
betabugto tell it where to install13:05
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mitchell`usually --prefix=/usr/local or something13:07
eriolssiwhis is it, right?
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eriolssiwhen i try to install python2.3 via deb package: python conflicts with python2.3 (<< 2.3.5-14)   python2.3 (version 2.3.5-3sarge2) is to be installed. dpkg: error processing python2.3_2.3.5-3sarge2_i386.deb (--install):  conflicting packages13:12
mitchell`I think installing from source is perhaps a better option.13:13
eriolssiok, so I have downloaded and unpacked p2.3.3, im switching to non root13:14
betabugyou should *always* be in non-root ;-)13:16
eriolssiwhere and how to edit local directories again, please? adding a "--prefix=/usr/local" in the end of "configure && make && make install"?13:16
eriolssiyes, I know.. : )13:17
betabughmm, that error message is funny - are you sure you don't have python 2.3 already somewhere?13:17
eriolssiwelll - the directories and binaries SEEMS to be there... but system is trying to tell me, that it has been purged..13:18
betabugas for --prefix ... you make a local directory in that user's home directory and then you give the path to that directory with --prefix=/home/someuser/mypython or so13:18
eriolssidpkg -i of zope2.7 wont let me intall it:13:18
betabugdon't worry, you'll install zope2.7 from source too :-)13:19
eriolssi zope2.7 depends on python2.3 (>= 2.3.2); however:   Package python2.3 is not installed.  zope2.7 depends on python2.3-xml; however:   Package python2.3-xml is not installed.13:19
betabugyes, forget those package manager things for a while13:20
eriolssiok. thank you VERY much for your help13:20
betabugno problem :-)13:20
betabugI would suggest making 3 directories for that user: 1. python 2. zope27 (where you will install zope27 3. the zope instance13:21
betabugnothing of this should need root access13:21
eriolssiin /home/username right?13:22
eriolssicant be for example in /var/www or so? : /13:23
betabugfor installing zope27, again you do configure --with-python=/path/to/your/new/python --prefix=/home/username/zope27 && make && make install13:23
betabugwell, on my server it's in /var/zope13:23
betabugbut it doesn't matter really13:23
eriolssiim just trying to make it clean (for other potenciall users/roots - dont want to put it into my home but make it more universal...13:25
betabugwell, then give /var/zope permissions for the user who will run the zope service and install it all in there13:25
eriolssiforgive me, but Im just not smart enough today i guess - the --prefix: I will add it to the make configure install command or edit it somewhere?13:28
betabugconfigure --prefix=/some/path13:28
betabugmake install13:29
betabug^ that's how it works13:29
eriolssiok, im doing it!13:29
betabugthe && is ust there to be able to write it all on one line13:29
betabuglearning some unix skills in the process :-)13:29
eriolssii know that, but aside, i really dont have expirience with compiling and installing programs from source..13:31
mitchell`not just to write it all on one line, but to also only execute the next part if the previous part succeeded :)13:31
eriolssii ran ./configure --prefix=/var/zope/python2.313:31
eriolssi./configure: line 89: Permission denied13:31
eriolssi./configure: line 90: Permission denied chmod: cannot access `': No such file or directory13:31
betabughmmm, weird13:32
betabugnever seen that13:32
eriolssimaybe because im NOT root?13:32
betabugno, configure is always run as a normal user13:33
betabugdoes the user have permissions in the directory where you unpacked the python source?13:36
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eriolssiproblem solved13:37
eriolssiIm an idiot13:37
eriolssiof course that python source was owned by root...13:37
betabugwhat was it?13:37
eriolssigoing bach to configure..13:39
eriolssihmmm "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH"13:40
betabugwell, yeah, it needs gcc I guess13:40
eriolssiIm sure the system has it - how do I deliver a path to configure?13:41
mitchell`apt-get install build-essential13:41
betabugeriolssi: well, if you can type `gcc` and get a reply, then you have it13:42
eriolssicommand not found13:42
eriolssiii  libgcc1                                                 1:4.1.1-21                           GCC support library13:42
eriolssiii  gcc-3.3-base  from 3.3 to 4.4 installed13:42
eriolssithats not it?13:42
betabugdunno, mitchell` seems to know this system better :-)13:43
betabugI'm a BSD guy :-)13:43
betabugI think it's unlikely that it's installed but not in your PATH13:43
mitchell`it should be in /usr/bin13:44
betabugand then it's unlikely that /usr/bin is not in your PATH :-)13:45
mitchell`eriolssi: are you running configure as your current user, you're not sudo-ing or anything?13:45
eriolssii was running that configure as current user13:45
eriolssiso do I have to try intall that build-essetinals?13:45
mitchell`could you run "echo $PATH" and check /usr/bin is in it?13:45
eriolssias user?13:46
mitchell`eriolssi: it looks like you have gcc, but not sure why it isn't finding it.13:46
mitchell`eriolssi: as the current user, yes13:46
eriolssiecho $PATH /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/local/java/bin:/usr/local/tomcat/bin:/usr/local/ant/bin:/usr/local/openxchange/bin:/usr/local/openxchange/sbin13:47
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eriolssibut typing gcc gives back command not foukd13:47
eriolssishould i Install this? The following NEW packages will be installed:   binutils{a} build-essential dpkg-dev{a} g++{a} g++-4.3{a} gcc{a} gcc-4.3{a} libc6-dev{a} libgomp1{a} libstdc++6-4.3-dev{a}13:48
eriolssii dont wont to screw up that system (install as little as possible)13:49
betabugif you break it, you can always say "this guy on IRC told me to" ;-)13:49
mitchell`you will need binutils, build-essential and gcc. it will warn you if there are any conflicts and not proceed - that would be the only problem.13:50
betabugbut I guess, if it's an official package, it should be ok13:50
eriolssiyeahhhh, I once allready broke one server, trying to force install ob libc6... because "internet guided me so"13:50
eriolssinever more13:50
eriolssiok, instaling13:54
eriolssiseems done, i will try configure again13:55
eriolssiconfigure OK13:56
eriolssimaking ok : )13:59
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betabugremember, no need for sudo for the `make install` step13:59
eriolssibut that /var/zope/Python2.3 directory still empty, I hope the install will fill it : )13:59
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betabugyes, install will place the stuff there13:59
eriolssiit sure did : )14:01
eriolssiok, done. can I test it somehow?14:02
eriolssior proceed to manually installing zope2.7?14:02
betabugyou can run the python interpreter in that directory14:02
betabugprobably /var/zope/Python2.3/bin/python14:02
betabugshould give you a python prompt14:02
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eriolssiive got it! : ) yaaay14:05
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eriolssinow installing zope2.7 manually the same way?14:06
eriolssiany idea where to download it? i mean the source14:07
betabugfor configure you will need --with-python=/path/to/that/python and --prefix=...14:07
eriolssiok, great, thank you14:07
betabughmm, where did they put that link?14:08
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betabug2.7.7 seems to be the latest 2.7 release14:09
betabugno, 2.7.714:10
eriolssior that instance will be working with ?14:10
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eriolssithat --with-python= leads to bin file correct?14:17
betabughmm, probably14:18
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eriolssioh, crap "The Python interpreter you are using does not appear to have the 'zlib' library module installed.  For Zope to be able to run, you must install a Python interpreter which includes the zlib module, or install the zlib library into your Python interpreter manually.  "14:18
betabugdunno, every time I installed python from source it had zlib14:19
betabugmaybe something wasn't found on the system14:20
betabugtime for food here, bbl14:31
eriolssiokay, good appetite14:38
eriolssii will try to find out how to get there a zlib14:39
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eriolssibetabug are you here?16:08
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betabugyepp, I'm back :-)16:08
eriolssilooks like I solved id!16:08
eriolssiabout that python and zlib - strange, I had it in usr/include16:08
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eriolssibut anyway, I did two things:16:09
eriolssi1) installed zlib-dev16:09
eriolssi2) compiled python with configure --with-zlib=/usr/include16:09
eriolssiby this howto
eriolssithen zope2.7 make and install worked OK16:10
betabugprobably you had zlib, but not the header files needed for developemnt (hence "zlib-dev")16:10
betabugnow you need to move (or copy) your instance with the db and everything there16:10
betabugand then edit the paths for python and zope to point to your "new" stuff16:11
eriolssithen I had to create instance and copy there my site backup... little trouble with zope.conf but I made it work : )16:11
eriolssiyes.. just done that16:11
eriolssisite is up and working!16:11
betabugso it all works now?16:11
eriolssibut... still some warnings in log...16:11
betabugwhat warnings?16:11
eriolssiit WORKS!16:11
eriolssibut i rather past these warnings16:11
betabugsure, put them on a pastebin16:11
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eriolssi(i dont know what pastebin is?)16:15
betabugrtf2xml <- it's looking for some converter library16:15
betabugpastebin is a site to (temporarily) publish a bit of text on the web ("paste")16:16
betabug"Warning: no Python Imaging Libraries (PIL) found" <- something else to install in your python, PIL16:17
eriolssithat name says it, but what is the url?16:17
betabughmm, where is PIL these days, probably look for it on pypi.org16:17
eriolssirtf2xml is a system library or python?16:17
betabug"Converter program 'xlhtml' not found for 'MSExcel' attachments! Indexing and preview won't work" <- some other converter library16:18
betabugprobably a python module, dunno16:18
eriolssimaybe that python-xml (zope2.7 package wanted that)16:18
betabug"ZODB Could not import class 'TextIndexNG' from module 'Products.TextIndexNG2.TextIndexNG'16:18
betabugTextIndexNG probably needed some manual install stuff too, check the readme that is in its folder16:19
betabugso there are 3 things:16:19
betabug1. PIL (a version that works with python 2.3)16:19
betabug2. rtf2xml (some conversion library for python, I guess)16:20
betabug3. xlhtml for Excel conversion16:21
betabugoh, and 4. TextIndexNG16:21
betabugthe lxhtml thing is from a product called AttachmentField, check the README there16:22
eriolssiok, thanks16:22
eriolssiTextIndexNG is Product too, right?16:22
betabugrtf2xml is from PortalTransforms Product probably16:22
eriolssibut site seems to work anyway..16:22
betabugbasically your zope is up and running, but some products complain about some stuff16:23
betabugwell, the rtf2xml and lxhtml stuff will break when people try to attach documents16:23
eriolssiyes, but they are copy and pasted.. So i guess it has to be because of python..?16:23
betabugthe TextIndexNG will probably break when you try to start search on the site or try indexing stuff16:23
betabugIIRC TextIndexNG required some compilation of a python module or so16:24
betabugand the others are probably python modules that need installing16:24
betabug <- this is one of those things16:24
eriolssiok, thank you16:25
betabugno problem :-)16:25
eriolssiI try search and it works (if by "works" you mean COMPLETELY irrelevant search results - its not google) : )16:25
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eriolssigenerally - python module is something integrated into specific python installation? how do you add one? (I know almost nothing about python)16:27
eriolssiand product installations - is it enough just to untar them into Products dir, or they have to be installed?16:28
betabugyeah, they are installed into a specific python install16:28
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betabugmost Zope Products are only untarred, some rare ones (like TextIndexNG) need some special install instructions16:28
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betabugpython libraries used to be untarred into a "site-packages" dir into the python install16:29
betabugnowadays there are tools like "easy_install" or "pip" that do that for you16:29
eriolssiok, i will stop bothering you and just read their readme : )16:30
betabughahaha, ok!16:31
betabuganyway, if you want that site to stay around, you should think about migrating to a newer plone16:31
betabugbut then I can't help you any more, I don't really have plone experience16:31
betabugthere are lots of other experts on that out there though (e.g. on #plone )16:32
eriolssiI understand.. Anyway upgrading site is out of the question now, i guess16:32
eriolssibut.... difference between plone and zope is? I know its closely related, but i dont really know much about it16:32
betabugzope is an application server16:33
betabugplone is an application running on top of zope16:33
eriolssiproviding CMF16:33
betabugI use zope, but with other applications16:33
betabugyeah, plone is a CMF more or less16:34
J1mmcdonc, ayt?16:34
eriolssiso you can use Zope and not Plone?16:34
eriolssibut not vice versa16:34
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eriolssiso plone = products Im using..16:36
betabugyupp, probably with a couple of plone add-ons16:36
eriolssiand what are plone alternatives - you said you use other apps16:36
betabugwell, not exactly "alternatives", I do other stuff16:37
betabugmostly business applications16:37
betabugbut my own site has a couple of blogs and wikis and other small stuff - see
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eriolssiI will chech it out, thanks16:39
betabugyou're welcome!16:39
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eriolssibetabug: going home, so once again thanks and bye!17:34
betabugyou're welcome! have a nice evening!17:34
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* kosh sets betabug on fire and hands out cookie dough17:39
betabughey kosh!17:39
koshso how is life going?17:40
betabughow's life? having fun at uni?17:40
betabugdoing fine here17:40
koshon my last week, finals start on saturday17:40
koshalso my excel project won as the best project in my class as a reward I got a perry handbook for chemical engineering it is about 2600 pages and costs about $20017:42
koshvery cool book17:42
betabugthat's a big wad of paper :-)17:43
koshyes it is a very heavy book17:43
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koshbut it is a cool award at least :)17:46
koshso how have you been doing?17:47
betabugmy little company is coming along fine17:47
koshhave you joined the underground to wipe out the government yet?17:47
betabugstarting on a django project with a friend17:47
koshmaybe build some killbots17:47
betabughaha, here *everybody* is the underground17:48
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koshbetabug: well just build the killbots then17:56
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koshsee you freaks later, off to class18:01
betabughf kosh!18:01
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mcdoncJ1m: pong19:24
J1mmcdonc, I wanted to discuss the zc.buildout egg for 3.3. Hopefully, I did what you needed.19:25
mitchell`hey J1m, did you get a chance to look at at all?19:26
_mup_Bug #583752: extra_requires of recipes not always installed <Buildout:New> < >19:26
mitchell`_mup_ is smart.19:27
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J1mmitchell`, no19:27
mitchell`I've since realised the patch I provided isn't exactly ideal and pkg_resources is partly to blame, but I've not had chance to correct it yet19:29
J1mIt would be good to note that in the issue, if you haven't yet.19:30
J1mBut I'm afraid It's going to be a while before I get some buildout time.19:30
mcdoncJ1m: yep, thanks.. it gets me farther at least19:30
mcdonci'll have to go troll around in the guts on the py3.3 trunk i think; behavior appears to have changed (bin/buildout cant import zc.buildout).. fun.19:36
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mcdoncbut the egg itself works fine19:37
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J1mmcdonc, I think the site behavior may have changed to help zc.buildout :)20:15
J1mor virtualenv, or both20:15
J1mI remember discussing it at pycon.20:15
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J1mbenji, ayt?21:32
benjiJ1m: yep, but on the phone, can I get back with you in 20 minutes or so?21:32
J1mbenji, never mind, I think I figured something out.21:34
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TresEquisJ1m, a quick question:  do you have any memory of the intended use of the 'deferred' method on interface objects?22:21
TresEquisIt isn't mentioned in doctests, and seems to be really ancient22:21
J1mhm, I'll look22:21
TresEquisit generates an old-style class of the same name, populated with Method objects copied from the interface and its bases22:21
TresEquisand caches it, which seems strange22:22
TresEquisgiven that I can't recall ever seeing it used22:22
J1mThat sounds fishy.22:22
J1mGreat, I'm blamed.  Hopefully, that's just a result of it being really old.22:24
J1mThat sounds like something twisted would want. :)22:24
J1mI don't recall that.22:25
TresEquislooks like your fingerprints are on it in CVS too22:26
J1mIf it isn't tested, I'd post a node to zope-dev and interface-dev saying we're going to delete it and see if anyone complains.22:26
J1mOh great.22:26
TresEquisat least, all the way back to 1.222:27
TresEquisThe only mention of it on the trunk is in zope/interface/tests/unitfixtures.py22:28
TresEquisclass A(I1.deferred()):22:28
J1mhm, so maybe it's there to support the tests.22:29
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TresEquisand the only direct mention is an assertion that the method descriptor object copied in the class raises a BrokenImplementation22:30
TresEquisany rate, I'm working again on coverage and docs cleanup, and wanted to figure out what it was there for22:31
J1mI'm for getting rid of it.22:36
TresEquissounds good to me22:39
TresEquisis interface-dev still alive?22:39
J1mofficially :)22:40
TresEquistwo real posts in the last eighteen months22:41
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TresEquis"He's dead, J1m"22:41
TresEquisbut I guess CC'ing it wouldn't hurt any ;)22:42
J1mThat will increase the post count!22:42
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