IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2005-01-19

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* mgedmin baffled by functional doctests again14:01
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jeruI read in the README.txt that "Zope3 requires Python 2.3.4 or later" but if I try to build Zope3 with Python 2.4 it doesn't work. Any hints?15:09
*** mgedmin is now known as mgedmin|lunch15:09
J1mCould you be more specific about what doesn't work?15:12
jerusorry! if I run 'python -v' some tests fail.15:14
jeruactually I run the test, and will tell you the problems after it has finished15:15
J1mI'll try it myself later15:15
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jeruj1m: regarding the python 2.4 problems - I've posted the testsuite log to zope3-dev mailing list15:41
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J1mThese are old failures that have been around for a long time.15:44
J1mI had incorrectly assumed that they had been fixed.15:44
J1mIf you want to use 2.4, I would just ignore these and proceed.15:44
J1mI'm 90% sure that the errors are spurious.15:45
SteveAthere were some dict.keys() ordering problems15:47
SteveAheck, I'd almost be inclined to replace the implementation of dict.keys() in python with one that returns a randomized order, just for running in unit tests15:48
SteveAto keep programmers on their toes ;-)15:48
* Theuni always runs sort() in the unit tests15:59
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SteveAdict.keys().sorted() in py2.416:01
Theunidoes it have a return value then?16:04
Theunior does it sort the dict?16:04
philiKONhow do you sort a dict?16:05
SteveAdict.keys() returns a list16:06
SteveAin py2.4, you can get a new list that is sorted using list.sorted()16:06
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Damascenewhen I do <page class="x" name="index.html" ... /> and <page class="x" name="doodoo.html" ... /> is getAdapters supposed to get both index.html and doodoo.html?  or it only gets unique classes?  what if getAdapters is called from class="x", will it get itself?16:17
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mgedminSteveA, I think you mean sorted(dict.keys())16:29
mgedminAttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'sorted'16:29
* SteveA checks16:30
SteveAyes, you're right16:30
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mgedminis there a nice syntax for __used_for__ = IFoo?16:45
mgedminadapts(IFoo) or something?16:45
mgedmincan I use it for browser views?16:45
* mgedmin jumps with joy16:46
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* mgedmin thinks it is more difficult to write URL traversal components than it should be17:15
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WebMaven_srichter: You're going to PyCon, right?21:19
J1mno, he isn't21:19
WebMaven_Hi Jim.21:19
WebMaven_You're the tote-bag contrarian. ;-)21:19
WebMaven_J1m: so, I posted a Sprint proposal here:
J1mI can't believe all of the people who actually want tote bags.21:21
J1mI'm stunned. :)21:21
J1mI saw that. Thanks21:21
WebMaven_what do you think?21:21
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J1mI hope some folks sign up for it.21:23
WebMaven_I was wondering if you could add a page to the wiki with comments on leading/running a sprint.21:24
srichterWebMaven_: note that a photo-slide package has been recently updated, the Zope 3 book already produces a message/discussion board and someone wanted to do a blog, but I am not sure what happened21:25
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srichterit was suggested several times to reproduce the pet store example21:25
srichterI think this might be a good idea, actually21:25
WebMaven_Is there a pet-store design doc?21:28
WebMaven_googling doesn't seem to reveal one.21:28
srichterthere are are fractional specs all over the Web21:28
srichterI had to look at a couple of places to get an idea of what it needs to do21:28
WebMaven_Well, it's probably a good idea (in terms of 'showcasing Zope 3), but I'm not getting excited about it.21:31
VladDracwebmaven interesting21:31
VladDracbut there already is a cool zope3 photo application :)21:31
WebMaven_yes, so I see.21:32
* VladDrac is considering writing a blog himself (planning to move my personal site to zope3)21:32
WebMaven_wasn't aware of it before.21:32
WebMaven_VladDrac: are you coming to PyCon?21:32
VladDracwebmaven probably not.. when is it?21:32
WebMaven_Is there a public demo of your photo-app?21:32
VladDracwebmaven not yet21:32
WebMaven_March 23rd-25th, sprints 19th-22nd.21:33
VladDracI bet it's not in .nl :)21:34
* VladDrac 'd love to sprint along but I don't think it'll be possible21:34
WebMaven_Nope. Washington DC. Details here: http://www.pycon.org21:35
WebMaven_VladDrac: I'd like to replace the crufty code I wrote for http://pythonphotos.org21:35
srichterWebMaven_: with all the hype about RDF & RSS an RSS feed might be nice?21:36
WebMaven_srichter: It hasn't been a priority, as I haven't been adding pictures for a while anyway.21:37
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WebMaven_but that is a target feature for a proposed replacement.21:37
srichterWebMaven_: no I meant this in general21:38
srichterWebMaven_: I meant write some app that provides news based on RDF or somesuch21:39
WebMaven_srichter, VladDrac: thanks for bringing the Zope3 photo/photoslides app to my attention.21:39
WebMaven_srichter: how is this different from a weblog?21:39
srichterprobbaly not at all :-) I do not understand all this fuss about RSS and RDF at all21:40
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WebMaven_Well, do you read any weblogs?21:41
WebMaven_What do you read regularly on the web?21:41
WebMaven_if anything?21:42
srichter  /., ande :-)21:42
WebMaven_those all have feeds.21:42
srichterwell, so I know you can represent those articles in RDF21:42
srichterbut it is nothing else than another protocol21:43
WebMaven_not a protocol, per se, but a format.21:43
srichterok, some thing21:43
srichterbut everybody treats it like th eholy grail21:43
WebMaven_You might try out a desktop-aggregator with just those three sites subscribed.21:43
srichterand that's what I do not understand21:44
WebMaven_the format is unimportant.21:44
srichterbut the idea is in no way new as well21:44
WebMaven_true, if you remember Usenet.21:45
WebMaven_But by reformulating the idea to use XML-over HTTP, suddenly everyone could publish their own channel.21:46
WebMaven_even on a free static file hosting account.21:46
srichterbut unless you have a global registry, all this is not that interesting21:47
mgedminsrichter, I think you're wrong there21:47
WebMaven_So, we got an explosion of people doing personal publishing that completely dwarfs the 'personal homepage' boom.21:47
mgedminthere is no global registry for web pages, yet html took off21:47
WebMaven_srichter: well, there are centralized notification and registration services.21:47
srichtermgedmin: there is google :-) <just kidding>21:48
mgedminI can subscribe to 60 rss feeds and get all the interesting news in one place rather than visiting 60 web pages every day21:48
WebMaven_mgedmin: you mean, visiting 60 pages and reading each one to see if there is anything new.21:48
srichtermgedmin: ok, I guess this use case just does not look appealing to me21:48
WebMaven_srichter: depends on you information consumption habits.21:49
srichtermy readings are rather random21:49
srichtermy main strucured info comes from E-mail lists21:49
WebMaven_(which are also a poor replacement for NNTP)21:50
WebMaven_here are some sites I read regularly:21:50
mgedminphillip j. eby's blog is very interesting21:53
srichterwow, that's a lot21:55
WebMaven_those are just a few of the python and Zope ones.21:55
srichterI guess I am just not intersted enough in other people's words ;-)21:55
WebMaven_I also read a bunch of web-desgn and web-standards related stuff, copyright-related stuff, some politics, etc.21:56
srichterI see21:57
* mgedmin finds blogs useful for learning what's new and interesting and python/debian/gnome/open-source/free-software related in the world21:57
srichterI just don't have time for that21:57
* mgedmin also finds they eat up a lot of time :(21:57
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WebMaven_Well, you could subscribe to a search, like this:21:58
WebMaven_mgedmin: yes, exactly, which is why an aggregator is necessary.21:58
SteveAlike, a planet ?21:58
mgedminWebMaven_, aggregators do not help if you actually read everything you subscribe to21:59
mgedminthat takes self-discipline21:59
mgedminSteveA, planet is nice, but it doesn't know which posts are new and which ones you've already seen21:59
WebMaven_mgedmin: Jeez, I'm subscribed to almost 200 feeds. Of course I don't read all of them.22:00
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Damasceneanyone here familiar with the getAdapters() method?  :)22:05
Damascenewow, i like the format for the irc weblogs.  very colorful22:05
Damascene(reading back) ah the classic pet store example of legend?  ;)22:08
WebMaven_aw, nuts, we scared srichter away.22:08
WebMaven_Damascene: are you coming to PyCon?22:09
Damasceneno, i didn't even know about it.22:09
* WebMaven_ boggles22:09
WebMaven_well, you know about it now. So come to PyCon!22:10
Damascenewhat exactly happens in ... pycon?22:10
WebMaven_go to http://www.pycon.org22:10
Damasceneah... (finds the website)22:10
Damascenebut python kicks butt.  what more is there to say?  ;)22:10
WebMaven_"Here is how I kicked but with Python"22:11
WebMaven_"New techniques in but kicking with Python"22:11
WebMaven_"The Java butt-kicker. Threat or Menace?"22:12
WebMaven_My butt-kicking [database|network|scientific|graphic] application"22:13
WebMaven_Not to mention pre-conference butt-kicking Sprints.22:13
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WebMaven_RaFromBRC: How does 'BRC' derive fron 'Burning Man', anyway?22:14
RaFromBRCBRC == Black Rock City, the name of the city that we build in the desert every year22:14
RaFromBRCburning man is the event, black rock city is the location22:15
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mgedminhow do I get meaningful error messages in zope 3 forms?22:26
mgedmindo I have to override _validate of fields and raise custom exceptions with my own error messages in their class docstrings?22:27
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WebMaven_srichter: welcome back.22:32
WebMaven_srichter: I'm worried that the pet-shop is too big to complete in four days, but I'll add it to the wiki page.22:33
WebMaven_srichter: any other suggestions you have would also be welcome.22:34
Damasceneyikes, it had to be done in 4 days?22:35
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WebMaven_Well, I'd like to have something finished after the Sprints are done.22:35
srichterWebMaven_: I am going to think about some more22:35
WebMaven_A sense of accomplishment is important. ;-)22:35
srichterWebMaven_: another option would be to port an existing Zope 2 app22:35
Damascenesrichter:  sorry to bug you, but curious if yuou know the answer to this?  when I do <page class="x" name="index.html" ... /> and <page class="x" name="doodoo.html" ... /> is getAdapters supposed to get both index.html and doodoo.html?  or it only gets unique classes?  what if getAdapters is called from class="x", will it get itself?22:36
srichterthe class attribute in the page directive is the class that is used to create the view, iow the adapter factory22:38
srichterit has nothing to do with the adapter lookup22:38
Damasceneokay, what about the different 'view names'?  how can i easily get all of the <page name="name.html" ...?s pulled out of the same browser package's zcml?22:40
WebMaven_srichter: page is updated.22:48
srichterDamascene: you can merely get all views registered for an interface23:06
srichteronce Zope is setup, ZCML does not matter23:06
srichterwhy do you want that?23:06
Damasceneoh, just as a way to handle navigation for me, since i'm not actualy instantiating a lot of content objects.23:07
mgedminDamascene, use a menu23:07
srichterthan use menus for that23:07
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